Guest guest Posted April 9, 2001 Report Share Posted April 9, 2001 Judy and others: Thanks, for the info on Michael Gach.......new subject: acupuncture face lifts...anyone know of courses or teachings available for this....I have the info on Virginia Doran....out of New England School of Acupuncture (I live on the east coast)....from what I hear she uses a LOT of needles and no e-stem........I am always trying to use less needles and I remember recently seeing some info on this from the members esp: Al Stone that e-stem works well..........I await your replies......thanks .........helen - " Judy Fitzgerald " <victoria_dragon <Chinese Traditional Medicine > Saturday, April 07, 2001 9:38 AM [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Michael Reed Gach website > http://www.acupressure.com/articles.htm > > Here is a link to a website with chapters from Acupressure's Potent Points. > Two of the chapters I mentioned are on the wehsite. > > Victoria > > > _______________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine > Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2001 Report Share Posted April 9, 2001 Helen McCollum wrote: > I have the info on Virginia Doran....out of New England School of > Acupuncture (I live on the east coast)....from what I hear she uses a LOT of > needles and no e-stem........I am always trying to use less needles and I > remember recently seeing some info on this from the members esp: Al Stone > that e-stem works well..........I await your replies......thanks I see the e-stim as one option, perhaps indicated best among those with some sort of muscle wasting syndrome. But for those with otherwise normal musculature beneath the skin, I really focus on the skin and not using e-stim. Admittedly, I'm a beginner in this particular topic, of course I don't advertise that fact, but I do want that understood at this point in the discussion. In fact, I thought that the whole thing smacked of easy money offering little or nothing in return for a long time. (see " herbal viagra " ) However, I share office space with an esthetician who does skin care and we wanted to offer this service, since so many were asking about it. So, I've done three or four patients so far. I have seen improvement and it wasn't as difficult as I originally thought it would be. After just one or two treatments, there is a tightening of the skin that is something the patient can feel after the treatment as well as something that I've been able to see with my own skeptical eyes. So, I'm okay with it now. Seems to work. I also make it a point to treat the internal too with distal points. Tonifying yin/blood and stomach qi are generally what I've seen was needed to potentiate the needle treatments. There's a lady who has been sending me lots of e-mail ads about her travelling seminars, she's apparently in Hawaii right now. If and when I get sent another one, I'll try and remember to send it to you or this list, Helen. Be well. -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 2001 Report Share Posted April 9, 2001 virginia doran is the one who is in hawaii now, Al. I have signed up for her facial rejuvination seminar at NESA in boston in the middle of may. I think it is a good way to introduce people to acupuncture, and of course one can treat them systemically at the same time, so that is good. When I do them, I will do them with herbal compresses, etc so it will be like a real facial but with herbs. I have really been putting a lot of thought into this. There certainly is a demand for this in NYC (image capital after Hollywood, I think) but I think it can be used positively as an intro to acupuncture. Hillary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2001 Report Share Posted April 10, 2001 Al.....thanks for the info....I think the lady you are referring to is the same one in Hawaii, Florida and New England...Virginia Doran....I plan to attend her seminar in May but became a little concerned after talking to some that have taken her course, indications are that she uses a lot of needles as many as fifty on the face at one time.......taking 35 minutes to insert them all.................I would like to hear your response to this..... have you been using this many......also would you care to share your procedure.....using the main facial points is obvious.....how long is the treatment.......and then massage?......I think treating the whole system is a given ..and Ihave every intention of treating the whole ....... Several years ago prior to my acupuncture career, I went to a Vietnamese MD acupuncturist ....he had his first experience with acupuncture as a prisoner in Vietnam........he treated me for sinus and also did facial rejuvenation....using the obvious facial points and then a vigorous massage afterwards.....I did not recall any improvement, but then I was much younger and was not in obvious need of help....but my sinuses were much improved........ .... - " Al Stone " <alstone <Chinese Traditional Medicine > Monday, April 09, 2001 3:22 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] facial rejuvenation > > > Helen McCollum wrote: > > I have the info on Virginia Doran....out of New England School of > > Acupuncture (I live on the east coast)....from what I hear she uses a LOT of > > needles and no e-stem........I am always trying to use less needles and I > > remember recently seeing some info on this from the members esp: Al Stone > > that e-stem works well..........I await your replies......thanks > > I see the e-stim as one option, perhaps indicated best among those with > some sort of muscle wasting syndrome. But for those with otherwise > normal musculature beneath the skin, I really focus on the skin and not > using e-stim. > > Admittedly, I'm a beginner in this particular topic, of course I don't > advertise that fact, but I do want that understood at this point in the discussion. > > In fact, I thought that the whole thing smacked of easy money offering > little or nothing in return for a long time. (see " herbal viagra " ) > However, I share office space with an esthetician who does skin care and > we wanted to offer this service, since so many were asking about it. > > So, I've done three or four patients so far. I have seen improvement and > it wasn't as difficult as I originally thought it would be. After just > one or two treatments, there is a tightening of the skin that is > something the patient can feel after the treatment as well as something > that I've been able to see with my own skeptical eyes. So, I'm okay > with it now. Seems to work. > > I also make it a point to treat the internal too with distal points. > Tonifying yin/blood and stomach qi are generally what I've seen was > needed to potentiate the needle treatments. > > There's a lady who has been sending me lots of e-mail ads about her > travelling seminars, she's apparently in Hawaii right now. If and when > I get sent another one, I'll try and remember to send it to you or this > list, Helen. > > Be well. > > -- > Al Stone L.Ac. > <AlStone > http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com > > Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. > > > Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine > Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner > > Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2001 Report Share Posted April 10, 2001 Hillary....thanks for your input ....I am planning to attend the workshop in NE in mid May.....look forward to meeting you.....there does seem to be a lot of flurry about this subject lately........I agree with you that treating systemically is the main line of treatment, but I would like to speak with a little confidence when I approach potential patients with this plan....there is a lot to consider, the patients health, weight, age, sun damage, etc......but I certainly appreciate your input........thanks........helen - acugirlnyc Chinese Traditional Medicine Monday, April 09, 2001 9:07 PM Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] facial rejuvenation virginia doran is the one who is in hawaii now, Al. I have signed up for her facial rejuvination seminar at NESA in boston in the middle of may. I think it is a good way to introduce people to acupuncture, and of course one can treat them systemically at the same time, so that is good. When I do them, I will do them with herbal compresses, etc so it will be like a real facial but with herbs. I have really been putting a lot of thought into this. There certainly is a demand for this in NYC (image capital after Hollywood, I think) but I think it can be used positively as an intro to acupuncture. Hillary Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner Shortcut URL to this page: /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 2001 Report Share Posted April 10, 2001 Helen McCollum wrote: > > Al.....thanks for the info....I think the lady you are referring to is the > same one in Hawaii, Florida and New England...Virginia Doran....I plan to > attend her seminar in May but became a little concerned after talking to > some that have taken her course, indications are that she uses a lot of > needles as many as fifty on the face at one time.......taking 35 minutes to > insert them all.................I would like to hear your response to > this..... Well, I'm in no position to criticize her, but this is what I do... Firstly, I use either Seirin reds, or green. Usually greens for the facial points and reds for the scalp. For body points, I'll just use my cheapo Vivas, thank you very much. : ) The premise is simply that I point the needles backwards, subcutaneously away from the nose and eyes. By backwards I mean in the direction that a face lift would pull the skin. Where the wrinkles are determine where I put the needles. I'll try and get into the wrinkles or between them if possible. For crows feet, I'll put in three needles write there in the crow's feet. The handles of the needles end up sitting over the eye in their field of vision. By the way, no heavy tapping of the needles on facial points. They're all very sensitive, but don't just push them in with a heavy hand either. I like a very delicate but deliberate tap in, just one if possible. Other points would include the groove lateral to the nose, and so on pointing downward toward Stomach 5. Other points would include Stomach 8, Du 24 and Tai Yang all needled pointing toward the back of the head. I'll add Du 24 too if I feel like it. (Never mind what the patient needs, its all about MY feelings! ha ha) Let's see, what else. After that I use distal points to either tonify the Yin (Lu7+Kid6), the Blood (St36+Sp6), or the Qi(St36+Li4), whatever seems to be missing. For a young patient I might consider some shen calming points if I see no indication of deficiency. (Ht 7 and Ear Shen Men) > > have you been using this many......also would you care to share your > procedure.....using the main facial points is obvious.....how long is the > treatment....... Usually 20 minutes. > and then massage?...... No, I don't do that, but I'll definitely throw some herbs their way when there's a deficiency going on too. > I think treating the whole system is > a given ..and Ihave every intention of treating the whole ....... Yeah, that's pretty much required, as far as I'm concerned. I have a real problem with supporting people's pathologies, and here in LA, there is no shortage of people who are obsessed with their appearance. So, I use that to perhaps slip in some real healing for their stomach if they've spent the past 10 years bingeing and purging, and so forth... Among the most difficult things to treat are eating disorders. From what I've seen, those who are obsessed with their appearance are cut from the same cloth as those with eating dosorders. The deficient self-image is so engrained, its difficult to get them out of that thought that they are fat, ugly, and as such, worthless. Very difficult. But short of that, at least we can support the middle jiao with the needles and herbs without them knowing it. Be well. -- Al Stone L.Ac. <AlStone http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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