Guest guest Posted February 8, 2001 Report Share Posted February 8, 2001 What I would like to see in TCM is a cross-reference if herbs to drugs prescrived for various diseases. So far as I know, there is none. Houston > " Dianne Moody " <dmoody >Chinese Traditional Medicine ><Chinese Traditional Medicine > >Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Some adrenal gland basics >Wed, 7 Feb 2001 11:54:07 -0800 > >Have a question related to the subject of adrenal insufficiency. Went to >see my TCM yesterday, as I'd been feeling off,also weak, perhaps a leftover >flu bug, and she said she would help me get back into balance, suggested I >chew on some preserved ginseng root if it wasn't flu. At this point, i am >not sure what I have, whether it's just exhaustion, complicated w/allergies >(had been sneezing and eyes burning). Had been taking some nutritional >support for adrenals which had helped w/panic attacks. >There are some communications gaps - my TCM is Chinese and at times I don't >think I understand each other or it could be we don't understand. >I had also read that ginseng was not that good for women?? > >I will appreciate your feedback. >Thanks >Dianne > > >Judy Fitzgerald <victoria_dragon >Chinese Traditional Medicine <Chinese Traditional Medicine > >Monday, February 05, 2001 6:12 PM >Re: [Chinese Traditional Medicine] Some adrenal gland basics > > > >> >In TCM, the adrenal glands are considered part of the Kidney system. > >> > >>I HAVE NEVER READ THIS STATEMENT IN ANY TCM BOOKS ANYWHERE. > >>I HAVE CERTAINLY HEARD PEOPLE SUGGEST THAT THE ADRENAL GLANDS MIGHT > >>CORRESPOND WITH THE TCM KIDNEY SYSTEM - BUT THOSE ARE ONLY SUGGESTIONS. > >>TCM DOESN'T RECOGNISE THE ADRENAL GLANDS PER SE. > >>SO, LETS BE CLEAR - THIS IS ONLY A SUGGESTION. > > > >What we're running into here is a translation problem. One thing I try > >to > >stress on here is that the Western anatomy and physiology idea of a > >particular organ is not the same as the TCM concept. This is why I'm > >one of > >those writers who uses a small letter when referring to the Western > >anatomy > >concept and a capital letter when referring to a TCM concept. It's to > >alert > >readers to the fact that these aren't one to one, exact > >corresponsdences. > > > >TCM pays more attention to function than to structure. This is why > >there is > >an Organ system called the Triple Heater even though it doesn't exist in > > > >form. It does exist in function. Some of the functions attributed to > >the > >Spleen actually are more in line with the Western idea of the pancreas. > > > >This is why some writers refer to this system and meridian as the > >Spleen-Pancreas. > > > >A lot of terms found in Western medicine are not going to be found in > >classical TCM because 1). anatomy was not that important to the ancient > >Chinese plus they had some strong restrictions against autopsies and 2). > > > >some of the parts of the body identified by Western researchers have > >only > >been identified within the past hundred or two hundred years or even > >less. > >But the ancient Chinese did a bang up job of describing many functions > >and > >many relationships that Western medicine only began to catch onto in the > > > >less hundred years or so. Because of their extraordinary grasp of > >function, > >they have had the tools all along to treat many things for which there > >were > >no Western names for or understanding of or treatments for many years. > > > >Many of the functions attributed to the Kidneys in TCM are functions > >which > >the adreanals in Western physiology play a role in. This does not mean > >that > >there always is an exact correspondence between the Kidneys in TCM and > >the > >kidneys and adrenal glands in Western physiology. It does mean that > >many of > >the symptoms that will cause a Western doctor to suspect adrenal > >problems > >will cause a TCM healer to suspect Kidney imbalance. The Kidney > >imbalance > >still has to be ruled in or ruled out by the TCM healer just like a > >Western > >doctor has to rule in or rule out adrenal problems. And one thing that > >TCM > >healers will run into quite a bit is that many of their clients with > >Kidney > >imbalances will have been suspected by their Western doctors of having > >adrenal problems. Sometimes the Western testing will reveal actual > >adrenal > >problems in these clients, but more often not. In many of these cases > >the > >Western doctors are very puzzled because the symptoms these people > >present > >with fit in with so much which they learned about the adrenals in their > >schooling and training, but the Western tests are negative. On the other > > > >hand, when some of these clients consult a TCM healer, they fit the > >profile > >of someone with Kidney imbalance very, very strongly. > > > >Again, I want to caution readers that these are not one to one, exact > >correspondences between Western medicine and TCM. The Western kidney > >tests > >may be normal or not that significant in the Western framework, but the > >person may have a severe TCM Kidney imbalance. The Western blood tests > >may > >be normal or not that significant in the Western framework, but the > >person > >may have a TCM Blood problem. (On the other hand, some O.M.D.s are > >starting > >to look at Western lab tests which may suggest the possibility of some > >TCM > >syndromes to be ruled in or ruled out.) > > > >As for it never having been stated that the adrenals are part of the > >Kidneys > >in TCM, I've read it in a number of modern writings. Tierra states in > >his > >article " As to the kidney, for instance, the TCM KIDNEY INVOLVES ALL > >PHYSIOLOGICAL FUNCTIONS THAT INCLUDE THE KIDNEY-URINARY SYSTEM PLUS THE > >ENDOCRINE SYSTEMS AND ESPECIALLY THE ADRENAL GLANDS. " The caps are his. > > > >I'm not prepared to include the entire endocrine system, but there is an > > > >amazing overlap between the functions attributed to the Kidneys in TCM > >and > >the functions attributed to the adrenal glands in Western physiology. > >Again, I caution readers that these are not exact correspondences, And > >Tierra makes it a lot clearer than I did that it's the functions being > >talked about. I should have stressed that. > > > >On the other hand, a writer like Ron Teeguarden goes further and states > >in > >Chinese Tonic Herbs " The Kidney includes the adrenal glands.... " > >(p.68) > > > >I've seen it referred to this way by other modern writers. > > > >>MY SUSPICION IS THAT AS FAR AS ACUPUNCTURE GOES, THE KIDNEY MERIDIAN IS > >A > >>GOOD ROUTE TO INFLUENCING ADRENAL FUNCTION (THERE IS EVEN A TREATMENT > >>WITHIN > >>THE KIIKO MATSUMOTO STYLE OF ACUPUNCTURE CALLED THE ADRENAL TREATMENT > >THAT > >>IS VERY FOCUSSED ON THE KIDNEY MERIDIAN SPECIFICALLY). > > > >Please elaborate on this because there are a number of people on here > >who > >are interested in acupuncture and acupressure. > > > >>BUT AS FAR AS TCM HERBALISM GOES, A PATIENT COULD PRESENT WITH MANY > >>SYMPTOMS > >>OF ADRENAL EXHAUSTION (IN A 'WESTERN SENSE') AND THEIR TCM HERBAL > >TREATMENT > >>COULD HAVE NOTHING OR LITTLE TO DO WITH THE KIDNEYS - DEPENDING ON THE > >>DIFFERENTIATION OF THE SIGNG SYMPTOMS. > > > >Please elaborate on this too because one thing I stress on here is that > >even > >though symptoms may be the same or even a Western diagnosis may be the > >same, > >this does NOT mean the people have the same TCM syndrome(s) and the > >proper > >treatments may be very different. Whenever possible I try to list all > >the > >possible TCM syndromes - or at least the more probable ones - that can > >underlie a Western-defined medical complaint. Some readers find this > >very > >helpful. It can also be a great confidence builder for Western-trained > >doctors and other Western-trained healthcare professionals who are > >learning > >TCM and need some guideposts in what is most familiar to them. > > > >One thing I want to add for other readers: Some symptoms are more > >definitive for a particular TCM syndrome than others. For example, if > >someone complaints of fatigue, this can be due to any number of possible > >TCM > >syndromes. In Western medicine, this is recognized as a possible > >symptom of > >some adrenal problems, but it's also recognized as a possible symptom of > > > >quite a number of things. On the other hand, if someone complains of > >back > >pain (especially lower back pain), knee pain, a history of frequent > >earaches > >and other problems with the ears, skeletal problems, problems in the > >urinary > >system, and/or changes in libido, automatically suspect and rule in or > >rule > >out Kidney imbalance. These particular symptoms are some of the ones > >which > >point very strongly to a possible Kidney imbalance. BUT, none of them > >alone > >points exclusively to the Kidneys. The back pain and the knee pain > >could be > >coming from a cause like one leg being shorter than the other or from an > > > >injury. A problem like tinnitus may be Rooted in the Kidneys, but it > >may be > >Rooted in the Liver. It's the total picture which is important, not > >parts > >of the picture. > > > >Thanks, > >Victoria > > > >_______________ > >Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine > > Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > > Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > > List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner > > > >Shortcut URL to this page: > > /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine > > > > Post message: Chinese Traditional Medicine > Subscribe: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > Un: Chinese Traditional Medicine- > List owner: Chinese Traditional Medicine-owner > >Shortcut URL to this page: > /community/Chinese Traditional Medicine > _______________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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