Using herbs wisely & correctly

[Guest guest]

That is a very good article on The Toxic Effects of Chinese Herbs, and solutions

from The Journal of . It underscores several ways where people

can get into trouble not only with TCM herbs but with Western herbs, Native

American herbs, South American herbs, etc.

 

It also points out some of the difference in the attitudes and assumptions

between Western allopathic medicine and other schools of medicine.

 

One of the biggest differences between allopathic medicine and other schools of

healing involves the identification and extraction of the " active " ingredient(s)

in an herb. Pharmaceutical companies send employees all over the world to find

herbs that may have an active ingredient that the companies can either extract

or reproduce synthetically (and make money off of).

 

There can be one advantage to standardized extracts. When you buy a capsule of

say St. John's Wort, you're guaranteed of getting a uniform dose of what

scientists say is/are the active ingredients.

 

However, there are some disadvantages to this approach. Note that I said " what

scientists say is/are the active ingredients. " Sometimes they fail to identify

all the active ingredients. So when you buy a capsule containing an herb that

has been standardized to include a certain percentage of an " active " ingredient

you may be getting too little or nothing of something else in the herb that you

need.

 

The Western allopathic approach also fails to consider that the active

ingredient(s) may work better with the other compounds in the herb and that some

of the other ingredients may be buffering possible side effects of the active

ingredient(s). If you read the link on the contraindications of licorice, one

thing that the author brings up is that licorice root doesn't appear to have as

many side effects as extracts of its " active " ingredient(s). There's been far

more instances of people running into problems with the extract than with the

whole herb. In addition to the potency of the extract, it may lack enough of

other ingredients in licorice root that minimize side effects.

 

When herbal formulas are prescribed in TCM, they are prescribed for the

*individual*, not for the mass market. Very often the herbalist will include

other herbs just to prevent unwanted side effects. An example of this is

prescribing ginger for a person who is too Hot. In an earlier post I mentioned

how one of the questions on the Rocky Mountian Herbal Institute website gave a

profile of 4 women with nausea and asked which of the four ginger by itself

would be appropriate for and which of the four it would be contraindicated for?

The answer is that ginger by itself would be great for the two women that suffer

from Cold disorders and would be contraindicated for the two who suffer from Hot

disorders because ginger has warming energy. Note that ginger by itself is

contraindicated for the two women with Hot disorders. You can give ginger to

them if you mix it with enough herbs with cooling energy that the overall

thermal energy of the mixture is on the cooling side. That way they get the

anti-nausea properties of the ginger without the added Heat.

 

Also, when TCM healers mix herbal formulas for individuals, they pay attention

to all the problems the person is having. When I saw a TCM herbalist, he

recommended a formula that had plenty of Yang and warming herbs (because my

primary problem is Yang Deficiency and being too Cold), but he also included in

the mixture a Blood Tonic because of blood problems I have, an Energy Tonic

because I also lacked Qi, Fu Ling (poria) to help some Dampness problems, etc.

The formula was right for me, but it would not have been right for others. There

are no mass market and or one herb (or formula) fits all in TCM.

 

The formulas which he prescribed were also right for me at the time they were

prescribed. TCM healers will see clients at regular intervals of one week, two

weeks, or four weeks. During these follow-up visits the TCM healer will check to

make sure the formula is still what is needed. During follow-up visits herbs

will be added or removed from the formula or the formula changed completely

based on what the individual needs at that point in time.

 

One of the examples given in The Toxic Effects of Chinese Herbs article was the

case of certain TCM herbs being included in weight loss formulas at a weight

loss clinic. All the women took the same formulas. There was no attempt to

prescribe for the individual even though the causes of being overweight can be

very different. These were " one size fits all " herbal formulas, and TCM simply

does not prescribe like this. In the second place, none of the TCM herbs are

herbs which are traditionally used for weight loss in TCM. In the third place,

the clinic also was precribing prescription drugs for the women without any

concerns whatsoever for adverse interactions between prescription drugs and

herbs.

 

TCM also does not prescribe herbs unless they are called for. A good example of

this is the herb Ma Huang. When taken as appropriate and in the correct dose and

for the safe period of time, Ma Huang can be a very healing herb with no side

effects. However, people in the U.S. have died from taking extracts of Ma Huang

and too high of a dose not for genuine medical uses but because they wanted a

buzz. They also have run into problems because they took it for too long a time.

 

Another example of medicine being taken for the wrong reasons is the

prescription drug Viagra. A lot of men want this drug just so they can perform

like a young man again. There are herbs in TCM that will increase libido. But,

in TCM they are never prescribed unless there are real medical reasons for doing

so. In other words, a low libido is the least of the person's problems. The same

imbalance that is creating the low libido is also creating some far more serious

problems. These herbs are never prescribed just because someone wants to be a

sex machine.

 

TCM healers are very aware of dosages and preparation. For example, raw pinellia

(Pinelliae, Rz = Ban Xia) is toxic. But, when pinellia is treated with ginger it

is much less toxic. TCM herbalists also know that you don't want to combine

pinellia with herbs of the Aconitum species (monkshood). (Pinellia is used to

transform Cold Phlegm. It also disperses nodules and is used for Phlegm

obstruction throughout the body. It can be used in both Hot and Cold Phlegm

conditions depending on what herbs it's combined with. It's also used to treat

vomiting which is part of an Interior Cold condition.)

 

The part of the herb used can also make a difference. A good example of this is

Chinese Ephedra. The dry stalks and twigs of the plant are Ma Huang and this is

an herb that makes you sweat and is used for things like treating Exterior

attack by Wind Cold. But, the roots of Chinese Ephedra, Ma Huang Gen, have the

opposite effect of Ma Huang in that they will stop a person from sweating and

are used to constrict and obstuct movements.

 

The article on The Toxic Effects of Chinese Herbs said that .2% of admissions to

the Prince of Wales Hospital in Hong Kong were for adverse reactions to herbs

but that 4.4% of the admissions were for adverse reactions to prescription

drugs.

 

The possibility of adverse reactions to herbs is decreased when they are

prescribed correctly, for the individual, in the correct dosages, for the

correct amount of time, and the herbs do not contain contaminants (like heavy

metals, pesticides, etc.)

 

Victoria

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Victoria,

 

This subject has been some concern for me. I have been taking some patent

digestive remedies--Xiao Yao Wan and Shu Gan Wan. I did this based on my

own self-diagnosis. A few weeks later I saw a TCM practitioner--a Taiwanese

man who has been practicing for 15 years and is now in the U.S. He asked me

where I got the patent remedies and I told him both over the internet and

also in Chinatown in NYC. He then told me not to take the remedies I

purchased this way because he said there was concern about heavy metal

contamination in the cheaper brand I had purchased which was from the

Lanzhou Foci Herb Factory. He then sold me Plum Flower Brand Shu Gan Wan at

5X the cost. He said I didn't need the Xiao Yao Wan.

 

Should I be concerned about the patent remedies from China? This doctor

unfortunately left two of the acupuncture needles in me. One I found in my

arm before he got out of the room, and the other I found in my belly after

he left the room. I pulled that one out myself. I didn't go back because

he didn't inspire alot of confidence in me, but have made an appointment

with another practitioner for next week.

 

Lynn

 

victoria_dragon <victoria_dragon

Chinese Traditional Medicine <Chinese Traditional Medicine >

Tuesday, March 07, 2000 11:45 AM

[Chinese Traditional Medicine] Using herbs wisely & correctly

 

 

> " victoria_dragon " <victoria_dragon

>

>That is a very good article on The Toxic Effects of Chinese Herbs, and

solutions from The Journal of . It underscores several ways

where people can get into trouble not only with TCM herbs but with Western

herbs, Native American herbs, South American herbs, etc.

>

>It also points out some of the difference in the attitudes and assumptions

between Western allopathic medicine and other schools of medicine.

[Guest guest]

>This subject has been some concern for me. I have been taking some patent

>digestive remedies--Xiao Yao Wan and Shu Gan Wan. I did this based on my

>own self-diagnosis. A few weeks later I saw a TCM practitioner--a Taiwanese

>man who has been practicing for 15 years and is now in the U.S. He asked me

>where I got the patent remedies and I told him both over the internet and

>also in Chinatown in NYC. He then told me not to take the remedies I

>purchased this way because he said there was concern about heavy metal

>contamination in the cheaper brand I had purchased which was from the

>Lanzhou Foci Herb Factory. He then sold me Plum Flower Brand Shu Gan Wan at

>5X the cost. He said I didn't need the Xiao Yao Wan.

>

>Should I be concerned about the patent remedies from China?

 

Yes. Some of them are contaminated with heavy metals and other substances. This

is more likely when minerals are used though contaminants have shown up in

herbs. It's also more likely when you buy the ready mixed pills or liquids than

when you buy the bulk herbs and mix your own formulas. Sometimes unreliable

factories will substitute ingredients or even mix in chemicals or prescription

drugs during the manufacturing process.

 

Dagmar knows the most about this as she is studying in China. She should be back

on the list in a few days. One of her earlier posts said that it's the Southern

China brands that are more prone to being unreliable. She said that Plum Blossom

and Tongren Tang are reliable brands that are made in or near Beiging. The Plum

Flower brand that the doctor recommended and the Plum Blossom brand that she

recommended may be the same brand.

 

I tried to look up Xiao Yao Wan and Shu Gan Wan in the books I have, but I don't

yet have a complete guide to patent formulas. (It's one of those expensive TCM

books on my wish list.) Do you know the ingredients?

 

>This doctor

>unfortunately left two of the acupuncture needles in me. One I found in my

>arm before he got out of the room, and the other I found in my belly after

>he left the room. I pulled that one out myself. I didn't go back because

>he didn't inspire alot of confidence in me, but have made an appointment

>with another practitioner for next week.

 

I'd be leery too. It's important that a healer inspire confidence and trust.

Also that s/he explain things carefully.

 

Did the doctor give you a TCM diagnosis or just stick needles in without

explaining what was out of balance and what TCM syndrome(s) he was treating? Did

he make any diet recommendations. There are specialists in using food to help

treat disorders, but acupunturists should know a little about diet. For example,

sometimes the acupunturist will advise the client to cut back on greasy and

fried foods in some TCM disorders. Since you said that you have digestive system

problems I would expect an acupunturist to be able to make some dietary

recommendations.

 

Victoria

 

 

 

--== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--

Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

[Guest guest]

>I tried to look up Xiao Yao Wan and Shu Gan Wan in the books I have, but I

don't yet have a complete guide to patent formulas. (It's one of those

expensive TCM books on my wish list.) Do you know the ingredients?

 

From the label on the bottle: Cyperus rhizome, paeonia root, aurantium

fruit, magnolia bark, moutan root bark, amomum fruit, tengeline peel,

licorice root, saussurea root, citrus fruit, curcuma rhizome, sarcodactylis

fruit, aquilaria zylem, alpinia seed, santalum xylem, turmeric, cordalis

rhizome, cardamom, bupleurum, and citrus peel. No doubt some of these are

misspelled.

 

 

>

>>This doctor

>>unfortunately left two of the acupuncture needles in me. One I found in

my

>>arm before he got out of the room, and the other I found in my belly after

>>he left the room. I pulled that one out myself. I didn't go back because

>>he didn't inspire alot of confidence in me, but have made an appointment

>>with another practitioner for next week.

>

>I'd be leery too. It's important that a healer inspire confidence and

trust. Also that s/he explain things carefully.

>

>Did the doctor give you a TCM diagnosis or just stick needles in without

explaining what was out of balance and what TCM syndrome(s) he was treating?

Did he make any diet recommendations. There are specialists in using food to

help treat disorders, but acupunturists should know a little about diet. For

example, sometimes the acupunturist will advise the client to cut back on

greasy and fried foods in some TCM disorders. Since you said that you have

digestive system problems I would expect an acupunturist to be able to make

some dietary recommendations.

 

 

 

The whole appointment was just weird and rushed. He was 10 minutes late

showing up for my appointment. Then while I sat in front of him as he was

asking me questions, he was also taking phone calls about his car which was

in the shop. I had to sign all these releases, and one told me that he

could not perform acupuncture without my first having been seen by his

supervising M.D. I think this may be Pennsylvania law, or maybe you are

aware that this is the practice elsewhere as well. I told him I had to be

out of his office by 6:10 since I had a class at 6:30. He said we would

have enough time for the acupuncture, but I told him that I had not been

seen by the M.D. He said this was no problem. So he put me in the room,

did the acupuncture, but was in such a hurry that we never discussed his

diagnosis. I made an appointment to go back the next week, but after

thinking about it for a few days, I realized I didn't want to see him again.

So I never did get my diagnosis. But he sold me the Shu Gan Wan, Zi Sheng

Wan, and Vine Essence which I believe is for the osteoarthritis in my hands.

It was all very rushed and not a good experience at all.

 

So I have an appointment with a different person next week and I think that

will be good. She insisted that I first be examined by her supervising M.D.

and I'm seeing her immediately after that appointment. I'm looking forward

to it.

 

Lynn