Guest guest Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Actually, 's setup for groups is a pain in the rear in many ways. First of all, no one, including myself and the other moderators, can edit a message once it has been posted - not even our own. Secondly, it does not allow for graphics such as photos to be displayed (and how long has the " full-featured " post option been labeled as " beta " anyway?). And finally, it has no real system to be able to have separate pages for different topics so that on any given day the main topic of oleander is lost amidst a stream of posts about MMS, gerd, vegetarian bumper stickers (gotcha Tammatha & Bonnie - lol), Ormus powder, you name it! I don't mind the other posts (within reason) and even encourage a variety of information about natural health - but it would be so much better if we were able to separate out different topics. Someday I suppose I may have to move the group to a better venue or else create my own forum website. oleander soup , Mike Golden <goldenmike86 wrote: > > There is a common misconception that graviola works through a single mechanism. Graviola does inhibit ATP production, but works in at least two other ways to inhibit cancer cells. This means that CoQ10 does not completely block its action. There probably is synergism between graviola and oleander. Oleander causes some mitochondrial disruption resulting in leakage of cytochrome c. The double hit to electron transport may be desireable if either of the two substances are not producing a therapeutic effect taken alone. The new formula that contains both allows smaller doses of each to be used. The advantage is that each of these substances has proven problematic in terms of tolerance in a subset of users. It could be that both taken together are producing a synergistic effect and, at the same time, limiting side effects. > > I tried to edit the previous posts to no avail. This is one annoying aspect of using the web mail version of the list. Sorry. > > Mike > > > > > Marc Swanepoel - PhD <marcswan > oleander soup > Wednesday, October 15, 2008 3:19:46 AM > Re: Six bottles of pills --- No results yet? > > > Hi Janet, > I was really sorry to hear about your non-progress. You are right about the initial 2 bottles. As far as Graviola is concerned, it is an ATP-inhibitor. That means it interferes with cellular energy metabolism. Therefore one cannot use it together with CoQ10 or supplements that increase cellular ATP or as the case may be with oleander, substances that also reduce ATP slightly. The poisonous activity of raw oleander is due to the inhibition of the Na-K ATP pump by the cardiac glycosides in the plant. The oleander extract (both S/OPC and the oleander soup) still contains trace amounts of the cardiac glycosides and may thus aggravate the ATP-inhibiting effects of Graviola and there may even be a synergistic action in this effect when the two are combined. I would thus suggest that one stops the Graviola while taking the S/OPC. > Another common problem could be unresolved conflicts. Caroline Myss has a CD - " Why people don't heal " - where she discusses this problem in detail. Although I don't agree with her more mystical theories, what she says about inner conflicts and how to resolve them, makes a lot of sense. I have first hand experience of someone who was completely healed from advanced cancer whose cancer came back in a different form after 2 years due to emotional problems between her and her mother which were further aggravated by extreme stress at work. > You should also check your diet. I have sent you some suggestions. > Marc Swanepoel > > - > Janet > oleander soup > Tuesday, October 14, 2008 11:52 PM > Re: Six bottles of pills --- No results yet? > > Dear Marc, check again my orders. 2 liquid > bottles($120. 00) of Oleander OPC on 6/19 , but didn't get the order until July something. Remember, I email looking for it? > Next order was 5 bottles of liquid Oleander with 1 free bottle of capsules. Total 6 bottles ($300.00) ordered on 7/23. I have 1 bottle left. > I started out with breast cancer and since May it has spred to my lungs and lymps. I refused the chemo and radiation. And yes I do take lots of supplements. Do you think Graviola could be canceling out the oleander? Janet Duesler > > - > Marc Swanepoel - PhD > oleander soup > Tuesday, October 14, 2008 5:15 PM > Re: Six bottles of pills --- No results yet? > > The person Duke is referring to ordered one bottle of liquid from me which arrived at her address on July 5. She ordered another 5 bottles from me towards the end of July which probably arrived at her address by August 5. This means she used 1 bottle during July and, if she has used up the other 5 bottles sent to her, then she has been using roughly 30ml per day for the remainder of the period of slightly more than 2 months. If, as Duke reports, she has been very ill for a long time, and if her cancer was very advanced to begin with, then 2 - 3 months will not produce miracles. At best it will initially slow down the progression of the tumors and then, provided she does a few other important things like proper diet, etc, it should gradually get the cancer under control. One should always remember that cancer is a SYMPTOM of an underlying condition in the body, mostly caused by lifestyle situations like diet an stress. There are no miracle cures that > will work unless one addresses the underlying problem that caused the cancer symptom in the first place. Some patients with relatively advanced cancers have gone into complete remission with NO sign of cancer after using the S/OPC for a number of months ONLY to have it return after 2 or more years (after stopping to take the S/OPC) because they did not address the underlying cause. > > The moral of this is that one has to treat the cancer holistically by looking at all the circumstances that could have led to it in the first place and which may STILL be preventing any progress towards health.. One's mental attitude in all this is extremely important. > > It will also be instructive to know if the tumors have grown in size or number, were they there before, have the growth slowed down, did she have any chemo treatment before using other modalities. And, most importantly, is she not overloading her system wit too many different supplements that may eventually cancel each other's effectiveness. > > Marc Swanepoel > > - > Duke Stone > oleander group ; Duke Stone > Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:04 PM > Six bottles of pills --- No results yet? > > This is a email to my personal address from a person that I had put in contact with Marc. She does not have the abblilithy to interact with the grouup. > > She is very ill and has been for along time. We had met last yesr at a clinic in Acuna Maexio opperated by Dr. Charles Rogers . Of the group of thirty of so there are only 4 of us let We are all in a state of decline. > > See her message here. > Duke, > I finally went to the doctor's and had a chest x-ray, it showed tumors in both lungs. I can hardly believe it because I have gone thru 6 bottles of oleander since July. But, this is what is going on. The x-ray's show pneumonia and I have been taking CS, I have a fever, can't breathe well and have pain from tumors and I am wheezing. I also have been using MMS 3x's/day 7drops internally and I did the OCC. Oh, I have sent for that herb Jim Humble mentions from the lady in Texas. Got any other suggestions? Thanks for all your input, Janet > > Duke Stone ----- Dallas, Texas > info (AT) DukeStone (DOT) Biz > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Dear Tony, The FOCC group is able, somehow to arrange the posts by topic. I have no idea how, but you might want to take a look. Corky - Tony oleander soup Wednesday, October 15, 2008 11:57 PM limitations Actually, 's setup for groups is a pain in the rear in many ways.First of all, no one, including myself and the other moderators, canedit a message once it has been posted - not even our own.Secondly, it does not allow for graphics such as photos to bedisplayed (and how long has the "full-featured" post option beenlabeled as "beta" anyway?).And finally, it has no real system to be able to have separate pagesfor different topics so that on any given day the main topic ofoleander is lost amidst a stream of posts about MMS, gerd, vegetarianbumper stickers (gotcha Tammatha & Bonnie - lol), Ormus powder, youname it! I don't mind the other posts (within reason) and evenencourage a variety of information about natural health - but it wouldbe so much better if we were able to separate out different topics.Someday I suppose I may have to move the group to a better venue orelse create my own forum website.Tonyoleander soup , Mike Golden <goldenmike86 wrote:>> There is a common misconception that graviola works through a singlemechanism. Graviola does inhibit ATP production, but works in atleast two other ways to inhibit cancer cells. This means that CoQ10does not completely block its action. There probably is synergismbetween graviola and oleander. Oleander causes some mitochondrialdisruption resulting in leakage of cytochrome c. The double hit toelectron transport may be desireable if either of the two substancesare not producing a therapeutic effect taken alone. The new formulathat contains both allows smaller doses of each to be used. Theadvantage is that each of these substances has proven problematic interms of tolerance in a subset of users. It could be that both takentogether are producing a synergistic effect and, at the same time,limiting side effects.> > I tried to edit the previous posts to no avail. This is oneannoying aspect of using the web mail version of the list. Sorry.> > Mike> > > > > Marc Swanepoel - PhD <marcswan> oleander soup > Wednesday, October 15, 2008 3:19:46 AM> Re: Six bottles of pills --- No results yet?> > > Hi Janet,> I was really sorry to hear about your non-progress. You are rightabout the initial 2 bottles. As far as Graviola is concerned, it isan ATP-inhibitor. That means it interferes with cellular energymetabolism. Therefore one cannot use it together with CoQ10 orsupplements that increase cellular ATP or as the case may be witholeander, substances that also reduce ATP slightly. The poisonousactivity of raw oleander is due to the inhibition of the Na-K ATP pumpby the cardiac glycosides in the plant. The oleander extract (bothS/OPC and the oleander soup) still contains trace amounts of thecardiac glycosides and may thus aggravate the ATP-inhibiting effectsof Graviola and there may even be a synergistic action in this effectwhen the two are combined. I would thus suggest that one stops theGraviola while taking the S/OPC.> Another common problem could be unresolved conflicts. Caroline Mysshas a CD - "Why people don't heal" - where she discusses this problemin detail. Although I don't agree with her more mystical theories,what she says about inner conflicts and how to resolve them, makes alot of sense. I have first hand experience of someone who wascompletely healed from advanced cancer whose cancer came back in adifferent form after 2 years due to emotional problems between her andher mother which were further aggravated by extreme stress at work.> You should also check your diet. I have sent you some suggestions.> Marc Swanepoel> > - > Janet > oleander soup > Tuesday, October 14, 2008 11:52 PM> Re: Six bottles of pills --- No results yet?> > Dear Marc, check again my orders. 2 liquid> bottles($120. 00) of Oleander OPC on 6/19 , but didn't get the orderuntil July something. Remember, I email looking for it? > Next order was 5 bottles of liquid Oleander with 1 free bottle ofcapsules. Total 6 bottles ($300.00) ordered on 7/23. I have 1 bottle left.> I started out with breast cancer and since May it has spred to mylungs and lymps. I refused the chemo and radiation. And yes I do takelots of supplements. Do you think Graviola could be canceling out theoleander? Janet Duesler> > - > Marc Swanepoel - PhD > oleander soup > Tuesday, October 14, 2008 5:15 PM> Re: Six bottles of pills --- No results yet?> > The person Duke is referring to ordered one bottle of liquid from mewhich arrived at her address on July 5. She ordered another 5 bottlesfrom me towards the end of July which probably arrived at her addressby August 5. This means she used 1 bottle during July and, if she hasused up the other 5 bottles sent to her, then she has been usingroughly 30ml per day for the remainder of the period of slightly morethan 2 months. If, as Duke reports, she has been very ill for a longtime, and if her cancer was very advanced to begin with, then 2 - 3months will not produce miracles. At best it will initially slow downthe progression of the tumors and then, provided she does a few otherimportant things like proper diet, etc, it should gradually get thecancer under control. One should always remember that cancer is aSYMPTOM of an underlying condition in the body, mostly caused bylifestyle situations like diet an stress. There are no miracle cures that> will work unless one addresses the underlying problem that causedthe cancer symptom in the first place. Some patients with relativelyadvanced cancers have gone into complete remission with NO sign ofcancer after using the S/OPC for a number of months ONLY to have itreturn after 2 or more years (after stopping to take the S/OPC)because they did not address the underlying cause.> > The moral of this is that one has to treat the cancer holisticallyby looking at all the circumstances that could have led to it in thefirst place and which may STILL be preventing any progress towardshealth.. One's mental attitude in all this is extremely important.> > It will also be instructive to know if the tumors have grown in sizeor number, were they there before, have the growth slowed down, didshe have any chemo treatment before using other modalities. And, mostimportantly, is she not overloading her system wit too many differentsupplements that may eventually cancel each other's effectiveness.> > Marc Swanepoel> > - > Duke Stone > oleander group ; Duke Stone > Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:04 PM> Six bottles of pills --- No results yet?> > This is a email to my personal address from a person that I had putin contact with Marc. She does not have the abblilithy to interactwith the grouup.> > She is very ill and has been for along time. We had met last yesrat a clinic in Acuna Maexio opperated by Dr. Charles Rogers . Of thegroup of thirty of so there are only 4 of us let We are all in a stateof decline.> > See her message here.> Duke, > I finally went to the doctor's and had a chest x-ray, it showedtumors in both lungs. I can hardly believe it because I have gonethru 6 bottles of oleander since July. But, this is what is going on. The x-ray's show pneumonia and I have been taking CS, I have a fever,can't breathe well and have pain from tumors and I am wheezing. Ialso have been using MMS 3x's/day 7drops internally and I did the OCC.Oh, I have sent for that herb Jim Humble mentions from the lady inTexas. Got any other suggestions? Thanks for all your input, Janet> > Duke Stone ----- Dallas, Texas> info (AT) DukeStone (DOT) Biz> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 I see an option at the top of the messages box where I can group by topic - not sure if that is just a moderator option or open for anyone. What it really is though is grouping by thread and I still do not like it since similar threads with different titles would be grouped as different topics. I guess that what I am looking to do is create mini-forums, or perhaps a site like CureZone where you can navigate between forums and topics without leaving the site to go to a different group URL. What I do not like about CureZone (and overall I love the site) is that there is no ability to moderate messages or membership until after the fact and so it is difficult to keep out the mainstream trolls, nutcases and people with private agendas, flaming and personal attacks, commercial messages, etc. I'm thinking about it. It would be quite a task but still . . all I can say is that I have talked a couple of times with a webbulding/hosting whiz who has experience building forums - so who knows what the future may bring? oleander soup , " Corky or Bill Rieder " <bcrieder wrote: > > Dear Tony, > The FOCC group is able, somehow to arrange the posts by topic. > I have no idea how, but you might want to take a look. > Corky > - > > oleander soup > Wednesday, October 15, 2008 11:57 PM > limitations > > > Actually, 's setup for groups is a pain in the rear in many ways. > First of all, no one, including myself and the other moderators, can > edit a message once it has been posted - not even our own. > > Secondly, it does not allow for graphics such as photos to be > displayed (and how long has the " full-featured " post option been > labeled as " beta " anyway?). > > And finally, it has no real system to be able to have separate pages > for different topics so that on any given day the main topic of > oleander is lost amidst a stream of posts about MMS, gerd, vegetarian > bumper stickers (gotcha Tammatha & Bonnie - lol), Ormus powder, you > name it! I don't mind the other posts (within reason) and even > encourage a variety of information about natural health - but it would > be so much better if we were able to separate out different topics. > > Someday I suppose I may have to move the group to a better venue or > else create my own forum website. > > > > oleander soup , Mike Golden <goldenmike86@> wrote: > > > > There is a common misconception that graviola works through a single > mechanism. Graviola does inhibit ATP production, but works in at > least two other ways to inhibit cancer cells. This means that CoQ10 > does not completely block its action. There probably is synergism > between graviola and oleander. Oleander causes some mitochondrial > disruption resulting in leakage of cytochrome c. The double hit to > electron transport may be desireable if either of the two substances > are not producing a therapeutic effect taken alone. The new formula > that contains both allows smaller doses of each to be used. The > advantage is that each of these substances has proven problematic in > terms of tolerance in a subset of users. It could be that both taken > together are producing a synergistic effect and, at the same time, > limiting side effects. > > > > I tried to edit the previous posts to no avail. This is one > annoying aspect of using the web mail version of the list. Sorry. > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > Marc Swanepoel - PhD <marcswan@> > > oleander soup > > Wednesday, October 15, 2008 3:19:46 AM > > Re: Six bottles of pills --- No results yet? > > > > > > Hi Janet, > > I was really sorry to hear about your non-progress. You are right > about the initial 2 bottles. As far as Graviola is concerned, it is > an ATP-inhibitor. That means it interferes with cellular energy > metabolism. Therefore one cannot use it together with CoQ10 or > supplements that increase cellular ATP or as the case may be with > oleander, substances that also reduce ATP slightly. The poisonous > activity of raw oleander is due to the inhibition of the Na-K ATP pump > by the cardiac glycosides in the plant. The oleander extract (both > S/OPC and the oleander soup) still contains trace amounts of the > cardiac glycosides and may thus aggravate the ATP-inhibiting effects > of Graviola and there may even be a synergistic action in this effect > when the two are combined. I would thus suggest that one stops the > Graviola while taking the S/OPC. > > Another common problem could be unresolved conflicts. Caroline Myss > has a CD - " Why people don't heal " - where she discusses this problem > in detail. Although I don't agree with her more mystical theories, > what she says about inner conflicts and how to resolve them, makes a > lot of sense. I have first hand experience of someone who was > completely healed from advanced cancer whose cancer came back in a > different form after 2 years due to emotional problems between her and > her mother which were further aggravated by extreme stress at work. > > You should also check your diet. I have sent you some suggestions. > > Marc Swanepoel > > > > - > > Janet > > oleander soup > > Tuesday, October 14, 2008 11:52 PM > > Re: Six bottles of pills --- No results yet? > > > > Dear Marc, check again my orders. 2 liquid > > bottles($120. 00) of Oleander OPC on 6/19 , but didn't get the order > until July something. Remember, I email looking for it? > > Next order was 5 bottles of liquid Oleander with 1 free bottle of > capsules. Total 6 bottles ($300.00) ordered on 7/23. I have 1 bottle left. > > I started out with breast cancer and since May it has spred to my > lungs and lymps. I refused the chemo and radiation. And yes I do take > lots of supplements. Do you think Graviola could be canceling out the > oleander? Janet Duesler > > > > - > > Marc Swanepoel - PhD > > oleander soup > > Tuesday, October 14, 2008 5:15 PM > > Re: Six bottles of pills --- No results yet? > > > > The person Duke is referring to ordered one bottle of liquid from me > which arrived at her address on July 5. She ordered another 5 bottles > from me towards the end of July which probably arrived at her address > by August 5. This means she used 1 bottle during July and, if she has > used up the other 5 bottles sent to her, then she has been using > roughly 30ml per day for the remainder of the period of slightly more > than 2 months. If, as Duke reports, she has been very ill for a long > time, and if her cancer was very advanced to begin with, then 2 - 3 > months will not produce miracles. At best it will initially slow down > the progression of the tumors and then, provided she does a few other > important things like proper diet, etc, it should gradually get the > cancer under control. One should always remember that cancer is a > SYMPTOM of an underlying condition in the body, mostly caused by > lifestyle situations like diet an stress. There are no miracle cures that > > will work unless one addresses the underlying problem that caused > the cancer symptom in the first place. Some patients with relatively > advanced cancers have gone into complete remission with NO sign of > cancer after using the S/OPC for a number of months ONLY to have it > return after 2 or more years (after stopping to take the S/OPC) > because they did not address the underlying cause. > > > > The moral of this is that one has to treat the cancer holistically > by looking at all the circumstances that could have led to it in the > first place and which may STILL be preventing any progress towards > health.. One's mental attitude in all this is extremely important. > > > > It will also be instructive to know if the tumors have grown in size > or number, were they there before, have the growth slowed down, did > she have any chemo treatment before using other modalities. And, most > importantly, is she not overloading her system wit too many different > supplements that may eventually cancel each other's effectiveness. > > > > Marc Swanepoel > > > > - > > Duke Stone > > oleander group ; Duke Stone > > Tuesday, October 14, 2008 9:04 PM > > Six bottles of pills --- No results yet? > > > > This is a email to my personal address from a person that I had put > in contact with Marc. She does not have the abblilithy to interact > with the grouup. > > > > She is very ill and has been for along time. We had met last yesr > at a clinic in Acuna Maexio opperated by Dr. Charles Rogers . Of the > group of thirty of so there are only 4 of us let We are all in a state > of decline. > > > > See her message here. > > Duke, > > I finally went to the doctor's and had a chest x-ray, it showed > tumors in both lungs. I can hardly believe it because I have gone > thru 6 bottles of oleander since July. But, this is what is going on. > The x-ray's show pneumonia and I have been taking CS, I have a fever, > can't breathe well and have pain from tumors and I am wheezing. I > also have been using MMS 3x's/day 7drops internally and I did the OCC. > Oh, I have sent for that herb Jim Humble mentions from the lady in > Texas. Got any other suggestions? Thanks for all your input, Janet > > > > Duke Stone ----- Dallas, Texas > > info (AT) DukeStone (DOT) Biz > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.