woohoo! in your FACE western medicine!

[Guest guest]

from the DRUDGE report this morning:

 

http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/health/article-1072414/St-Johns-Wort-plant-effecti\

ve-

Prozac-treating-depression-say-scientists.html

 

 

'St John's Wort plant as effective as Prozac for treating depression', say

scientists

By DANIEL MARTIN

Last updated at 2:02 PM on 08th October 2008

 

Comments (41)

Add to My Stories

It has long been a happy alternative for those reluctant to pop pills for

depression.

But the herbal extract St John's Wort now has more than just cheerful converts

to testify to

its mood-lifting powers.

In what is billed as the most thorough study of the plant, scientists have found

it is just as

effective as Prozac at treating depression.

 

Plant power: Herbal extract from St John's Wort is thought to be just as

effective as Prozac

for treating depression, say scientists

 

 

It also had fewer side effects than many standard drugs used to help those

battling

despair.

 

Researchers compared the effects of the plant hypericum perforatum - popularly

known

as St John's Wort - with placebos or a wide range of old and new

anti-depressants,

including those from the new generation of SSRI drugs, such as Prozac and

Seroxat.

 

The findings could prompt more GPs to prescribe St John's Wort.

 

In Germany, it is commonly given to children and teenagers.

 

Experts do not know exactly how the plant lifts depression, although most

believe it

probably works by keeping the chemical serotonin, which is linked to positive

moods, in

the brain for longer.

 

The study's lead author, Dr Klaus Linde, from the Centre for Complementary

Medicine in

Munich, pooled data from 29 studies involving 5,489 patients with mild to

moderately

severe depression.

 

'Overall, the St John's Wort extracts tested in the trials were superior to

placebo, similarly

effective as standard anti-depressants, and had fewer side effects than standard

anti-

depressants,' he said.

 

But he pointed out that St John's Wort products available in health food shops

and

chemists differed greatly and some may be more effective than others.

 

'Using a St John's Wort extract might be justified but products on the market

vary

considerably, so these results only apply to the preparations tested,' he

explained.

 

The findings were published by the Cochrane Library, which specialises in

systematic

reviews of research studies.

 

 

A separate study has found St John's Wort, available in countless health shops,

is the only

alternative medicine proven to have an effect.

 

Others, including ginseng, liquid tonic, cat's claw, gingko biloba and royal

jelly, had no

firm base in evidence and could be dangerous when taken with other drugs,

according to

the study by St James' University Hospital in Leeds.

 

Some other studies however have indicated that St John's Wort may interfere with

the

effectiveness of the contraceptive pill.

 

Other reported effects have included dizziness, tiredness and hair loss.

 

The extract has become a popular alternative to anti-depressants such as Prozac

and

Seroxat in recent years following fears over the safety of SSRI (selective

serotonin re-

uptake inhibitor) drugs.

 

Doctors have been told not to prescribe most SSRIs to under-18s because of an

increased

risk of suicide.

 

Experts have also said they could not rule out a suicide risk to older users.

 

Another study found that pregnant women who take SSRI drugs were at risk of

having

babies with birth defects such as cleft palates and heart problems.

 

Four out of five GPs have admitted overprescribing Prozac and similar drugs.

 

They blamed a lack of suitable alternatives, including behavioural therapy and

social care

as well as medicines.

[Guest guest]

No way is st Johns Wort as effective as an SSRI like Paxil or Prozac,

beleive me, there are lies, damn lies and .... studies!!

 

Gerald

 

ps Depends how severe the depression is, there is depression and there

is DEPRESSION. Some say, oh my cat died and they are depressed, surely

they feel sad but they are not depressed, when really depressed you can

have everything going right and no person in their right mind could be

depressed and yet you cry, want to die, see everything negatively, feel

suicidal etc etc etc, no matter how much sunlight hits your retina, or

how much money you have or whatever vitamin you take or herb, it

doesn't go away. The depression dwarfs whatever miniscule healing

powers something like St Johns Wort may or may not have.

[Guest guest]

Gerald, I understand how you feel. And there was a time when I would

have said the same thing. I am too familiar with the depression you

speak of. I am familiar with the feeling of having absolutely no hope,

coupled with panic and anxiety. I refer to my life during those years

as " walking through the bowels of hell. "

 

St. John's Wort does take some time to " kick in. " However, depending on

the person, sometimes one herb alone will not work, you need a

combination, and as we are not learned enough to know what that

combination is, that is why it is wise to seek a naturopath to help in

this area. Diet also plays a very important part and supplements.

Omega 3's will ease depression.

 

And a lot of the problem for our severe depression is our chemical

imbalance that makes us see the world out of proportion. I still

maintain that there is an emotional component. In my case, my emotions

were hit first. It was so traumatic that I could not cope and it

snowballed to my body. I believe the " blow " was so hard that it altered

my brain chemistry, together with not taking care of myself physically.

The two go hand-in-hand.

 

I remember in my darkest days a friend telling me of someone that went

to a " doctor " that gave her herbs and that took care of her problem. Of

course, when I asked who, she had lost contact with the friend and had

no idea who the doctor was. I literally prayed that one day I would

become knowledgeable in herbs and use them as a healing tool. Well,

that dream came true 20 years later.

 

Paxil makes you functional. However, it comes at a price. You must

live with the side effects. And yes, there was a time that I would sell

my soul to become " functional. "

 

I understand, believe me, and I understand that because of the

seriousness of this disorder, someone relying on these drugs must be

" ready " to withdraw, because if you are not " ready " it will not happen,

and the reasons are complicated, it would take an entire article to

explain. The thing we fear the most, our emotions, must be dealt with,

because no matter what anybody says, chemical imbalance, whatever, our

emotions started this process. Somewhere along the line we were hurt so

badly that we " shut down. " This is not dealt with. We are given pills

and then we " feel better. " The root of the problem must be addressed

for true healing, together with a healthy lifestyle. Diet, I cannot

emphasize enough, is of utmost importance. The two go hand-in-hand. If

you are lucky enough to get a therapist these days, or a psychiatrist

(perish the thought), they do not get to the " root of the problem. "

They, too, rely on drugs, and this is how their therapy works. Good,

caring, understanding therapists are few and far between. But this is

how it should be, together with proper diet, excercise, and learning how

to see the world in a different light.

 

And this takes time. It will not happen overnight. Healing is a

journey. But healing naturally is very possible.

 

I didn't mean to go into this dissertation. I just wanted to explain my

experience. I refer to myself as the anxiety and panic poster child.

 

Hugs,

 

 

 

oleander soup , " gerald.fiore " <Dukka88 wrote:

>

> No way is st Johns Wort as effective as an SSRI like Paxil or Prozac,

> beleive me, there are lies, damn lies and .... studies!!

>

> Gerald

>

> ps Depends how severe the depression is, there is depression and there

> is DEPRESSION. Some say, oh my cat died and they are depressed, surely

> they feel sad but they are not depressed, when really depressed you

can

> have everything going right and no person in their right mind could be

> depressed and yet you cry, want to die, see everything negatively,

feel

> suicidal etc etc etc, no matter how much sunlight hits your retina, or

> how much money you have or whatever vitamin you take or herb, it

> doesn't go away. The depression dwarfs whatever miniscule healing

> powers something like St Johns Wort may or may not have.

>

[Guest guest]

You need to check out the Pain and Stress Center in San Antonio, Texas. Dr. Billie Shalley is the dr who has done the research. It is amino acids that the brain needs - They also have liquid serotonin. Dr. Shalley has quite a few books on the various amino acids and their specific use for each kind of event - grief, depression, anxiety, etc. They work!!! That is the important thing. With all the phrma drugs, at some point you reach a level of tolerance and require more to feel the same. At that point if you do not get more your body is going into withdrawal whether you know it or not, and they slow your liver down - interesting side effect.Janna

-------------- Original message from "gerald.fiore" <Dukka88: --------------

 

No way is st Johns Wort as effective as an SSRI like Paxil or Prozac, beleive me, there are lies, damn lies and .... studies!!Geraldps Depends how severe the depression is, there is depression and there is DEPRESSION. Some say, oh my cat died and they are depressed, surely they feel sad but they are not depressed, when really depressed you can have everything going right and no person in their right mind could be depressed and yet you cry, want to die, see everything negatively, feel suicidal etc etc etc, no matter how much sunlight hits your retina, or how much money you have or whatever vitamin you take or herb, it doesn't go away. The depression dwarfs whatever miniscule healing powers something like St Johns Wort may or may not have.

[Guest guest]

Thankyou Janna,

 

Interesting about the liver as the chinese connect depression to the liver anyway. Some aminos and other nutrients can't be purchased in London such as GABA and Melatonin so would have to try an online source, wonder why they aren't sold in London? I will check if this Dr has a website, I do have an open mind and wil try to find more info but the Paxil has helped me a lot, I now about poop out but hasn't happeed so far and I've been on it for 12 years, I have tried to stop and tapered off on many occasions but haven't supplemented wisely maybe, maybe that is the missing link to my recovery and freedom from Paxil, who knows? Is there more info on the net on Aminos and severe depression and or tapering off strategies that involve the use of aminoacid supplementation?

 

Sincerely

 

Gerald

 

 

oleander soup From: cr8iveartDate: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 17:06:50 +0000Re: Re: woohoo! in your FACE western medicine!

 

You need to check out the Pain and Stress Center in San Antonio, Texas. Dr. Billie Shalley is the dr who has done the research. It is amino acids that the brain needs - They also have liquid serotonin. Dr. Shalley has quite a few books on the various amino acids and their specific use for each kind of event - grief, depression, anxiety, etc. They work!!! That is the important thing. With all the phrma drugs, at some point you reach a level of tolerance and require more to feel the same. At that point if you do not get more your body is going into withdrawal whether you know it or not, and they slow your liver down - interesting side effect.Janna

-------------- Original message from "gerald.fiore" <Dukka88: --------------

 

No way is st Johns Wort as effective as an SSRI like Paxil or Prozac, beleive me, there are lies, damn lies and .... studies!!Geraldps Depends how severe the depression is, there is depression and there is DEPRESSION. Some say, oh my cat died and they are depressed, surely they feel sad but they are not depressed, when really depressed you can have everything going right and no person in their right mind could be depressed and yet you cry, want to die, see everything negatively, feel suicidal etc etc etc, no matter how much sunlight hits your retina, or how much money you have or whatever vitamin you take or herb, it doesn't go away. The depression dwarfs whatever miniscule healing powers something like St Johns Wort may or may not have.

Get Hotmail on your mobile from Vodafone Try it Now!

[Guest guest]

Dear Gerald,

Amen! People who don't understand depression make these minimizing statements. If it were not for Effexor, I would be unable to get out of bed in the morning - or the afternoon, for that matter! And I have tried St. John's Wort and several other natural remedies.

Corky

 

-

gerald.fiore

oleander soup

Wednesday, October 08, 2008 8:47 AM

Re: woohoo! in your FACE western medicine!

 

 

No way is st Johns Wort as effective as an SSRI like Paxil or Prozac, beleive me, there are lies, damn lies and .... studies!!Geraldps Depends how severe the depression is, there is depression and there is DEPRESSION. Some say, oh my cat died and they are depressed, surely they feel sad but they are not depressed, when really depressed you can have everything going right and no person in their right mind could be depressed and yet you cry, want to die, see everything negatively, feel suicidal etc etc etc, no matter how much sunlight hits your retina, or how much money you have or whatever vitamin you take or herb, it doesn't go away. The depression dwarfs whatever miniscule healing powers something like St Johns Wort may or may not have.

[Guest guest]

Really, I believe that fish oil, with Omega acids is going to be more beneficial in the long run for depression than something like St. John's Wort (which I personally never found to be much help....but I believe it does help some...) because it allows the B vitamins to pass the blood brain barrier. If I weren't already, I would begin taking fish oil as a supplement 3-4 times a day, and take a B complex a couple of times a day. B-12 sublingually.

 

A lot of our problems are due to an inability to absorb vital nutrients. There have been many discussions of late on acid reflux, and those dreadful drugs they prescribe

....but what we haven't really touched on enough is that the acid inhibitors also inhibit the crucial vitamin absorption from that part of the stomach.

 

The truth is that we don't know enough generally about what is absorbed and where and under what conditions. Like, iron and calcium cannot be absorbed together, yet that combination is often used as a sale point! I remember that back in the early 90's I was encouraged to take as much Tums as I could for calcium supplementation during pregnancy. Well, I needed the acid, which was being nullified by the Tums to absorb the calcium in the Tums. Good fodder for kidney stones though! C

 

[Guest guest]

Dr. Peggy Ashton is in Europe. Dr. Shalley's clinic is the painstresscenter.com (I think). Janna

-------------- Original message from Gero Fiore <Dukka88: --------------

 

Thankyou Janna, Interesting about the liver as the chinese connect depression to the liver anyway. Some aminos and other nutrients can't be purchased in London such as GABA and Melatonin so would have to try an online source, wonder why they aren't sold in London? I will check if this Dr has a website, I do have an open mind and wil try to find more info but the Paxil has helped me a lot, I now about poop out but hasn't happeed so far and I've been on it for 12 years, I have tried to stop and tapered off on many occasions but haven't supplemented wisely maybe, maybe that is the missing link to my recovery and freedom from Paxil, who knows? Is there more info on the net on Aminos and severe depression and or tapering off strategies that involve the use of aminoacid supplementation? Sincerely Gerald

 

oleander soup From: cr8iveart (AT) bellsouth (DOT) netDate: Wed, 8 Oct 2008 17:06:50 +0000Re: Re: woohoo! in your FACE western medicine!

 

You need to check out the Pain and Stress Center in San Antonio, Texas. Dr. Billie Shalley is the dr who has done the research. It is amino acids that the brain needs - They also have liquid serotonin. Dr. Shalley has quite a few books on the various amino acids and their specific use for each kind of event - grief, depression, anxiety, etc. They work!!! That is the important thing. With all the phrma drugs, at some point you reach a level of tolerance and require more to feel the same. At that point if you do not get more your body is going into withdrawal whether you know it or not, and they slow your liver down - interesting side effect.Janna

-------------- Original message from "gerald.fiore" <Dukka88 (AT) Hotmail (DOT) com>: --------------

No way is st Johns Wort as effective as an SSRI like Paxil or Prozac, beleive me, there are lies, damn lies and .... studies!!Geraldps Depends how severe the depression is, there is depression and there is DEPRESSION. Some say, oh my cat died and they are depressed, surely they feel sad but they are not depressed, when really depressed you can have everything going right and no person in their right mind could be depressed and yet you cry, want to die, see everything negatively, feel suicidal etc etc etc, no matter how much sunlight hits your retina, or how much money you have or whatever vitamin you take or herb, it doesn't go away. The depression dwarfs whatever miniscule healing powers something like St Johns Wort may or may not have.

 

 

Get Hotmail on your mobile from Vodafone Try it Now!

[Guest guest]

Hi Gerald,

 

Have you had your thyroid level checked? Hypothyroidism is rampant and one of the about 60 symptoms is depression. You can start by taking your oral temp 3 times a day every 3 hours 3 hours after you wake and if it is consistently below 98.6 or the equivalent in UK speak, you have hypo or low temp syndrome, which gives the same symptoms. Your adrenals are probably shot too with so much stress.

 

www.wilsonssyndrome.com has some good info to start. Also,

www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

 

 

And iodine is absolutely essential to health. Unless you eat lots of fish, seaweed, you are probably deficient, like most everyone else.

 

 

http://www.mbschachter.com/iodine.htm

 

 

And Dr. David Brownstein has articles and a great book about iodine.

 

 

I agree with not getting much help from herbals for depression. Don't forget about meditating/prayer and eft.

 

Good luck.

 

Nonie No way is st Johns Wort as effective as an SSRI like Paxil or Prozac, > beleive me, there are lies, damn lies and .... studies!!> > Gerald> > ps Depends how severe the depression is, there is depression and there > is DEPRESSION. Some say, oh my cat died and they are depressed, surely > they feel sad but they are not depressed, when really depressed you can > have everything going right and no person in their right mind could be > depressed and yet you cry, want to die, see everything negatively, feel > suicidal etc etc etc, no matter how much sunlight hits your retina, or > how much money you have or whatever vitamin you take or herb, it > doesn't go away. The depression dwarfs whatever miniscule healing > powers something like St Johns Wort may or may not have.>

[Guest guest]

Also Julia Ross's book:

Mind Cure

 

It covers many different factors (eg. aminos, foods, etc.etc.) in an

easy ready style and ways to start determining which could be helpful

to you.

 

Cheers,

Ritz

 

 

 

On Oct 8, 2008, at 10:06 AM, cr8iveart wrote:

 

> You need to check out the Pain and Stress Center in San Antonio,

> Texas. Dr. Billie Shalley is the dr who has done the research. It is

> amino acids that the brain needs - They also have liquid serotonin.

> Dr. Shalley has quite a few books on the various amino acids and

> their specific use for each kind of event - grief, depression,

> anxiety, etc. They work!!! That is the important thing. With all the

> phrma drugs, at some point you reach a level of tolerance and

> require more to feel the same. At that point if you do not get more

> your body is going into withdrawal whether you know it or not, and

> they slow your liver down - interesting side effect.Janna

> -------------- Original message from " gerald.fiore " <Dukka88

> >: --------------

>

> No way is st Johns Wort as effective as an SSRI like Paxil or Prozac,

> beleive me, there are lies, damn lies and .... studies!!

>

> Gerald

>

> ps Depends how severe the depression is, there is depression and there

> is DEPRESSION. Some say, oh my cat died and they are depressed, surely

> they feel sad but they are not depressed, when really depressed you

> can

> have everything going right and no person in their right mind could be

> depressed and yet you cry, want to die, see everything negatively,

> feel

> suicidal etc etc etc, no matter how much sunlight hits your retina, or

> how much money you have or whatever vitamin you take or herb, it

> doesn't go away. The depression dwarfs whatever miniscule healing

> powers something like St Johns Wort may or may not have.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Ritz,

 

I did read online that aminos shouldn't be taken with SSRI's and some

even say not to take whilst tapering off SSRI's as well as they

influence the same chemicals that the meds do and there are a few

aminos, 22 and 8 of them essential meaning the body doesn't prodcuce

them. Different aminos do different things, some relax you whilst

others bring you up and so if you are anxious you take one, if you are

low you take another, what if you have anxiety/depression? Take both?

Have to speak to that amino doc!

 

Gerald

[Guest guest]

Coleen,

 

I did take flax oil but as with other oils will make the LES lazy and

so for the moment have avoided, even though I still have in the fridge.

True about acid meds and their absorption of nutrients issue, I have

read that before. I read that in time taking acid meds can cause colon

cancer and so I have heavily bombarded me rear with enemas, once for a

whole year and then for 6 months and now for a few months but not

everyday, every other day which may be too much I know.

 

One thing I am going to try which ties in with the absorption issue is

Okra-pepsin which in the opinion of Dr Kelly is needed to clean the

small intestine, he says no matter how many vitamins and nutrients you

take if the small intestine is clogged as most are then they will not

be absorbed and you are wasting money, interesting detox info.

 

Gerald

[Guest guest]

Thankyou Nonie,

 

I doubt I have a thyroid problem as my depression immediately responds

to meds. But it is interesting the Iodine supplementation, I do eat

seaweed a few times a week now and once a week maybe some eel, but on

the packaging it says not to consume more than a certain amount of

seaweed per week.

 

G

[Guest guest]

You have to rebuild some of the imbalances that were created by the drugs. Yes, you are right - 5HTP is one that cannot be taken with SSRI's - really important, can cause really bad headaches and increased anxiety if taken with SSRI's. There are other amino acids that are very important to take - with withdrawal from any kind of antidepressant/anti anxiety medication. First, you rebuild the imbalances created by the drugs, this allows you to taper off the medication (if you want to), Once off the medication, you address the underlying cause(s) that got you on the medication in the first place. Your body does heal from these drugs. Like everything else, it is a process and does take time. You do have to know what you are doing with nutritional therapy. It is a growing field and there are people out there who are knowledgeable about it. And, yes, omega 3's help - but they donot "fix" or address the whole problem. The drugs deplete GABA, glutathione, glutamine, serotonin and quite a few others. They force your body to use up the store house that it has or in the case of SSRI's keep recirulating the serotonin in your body over and over, giving your glands no rest, hence adrenal fatique once off the medication. You have to start the nutritional therapy before you taper off the drugs, other wise you feel worse than you did before and think that going back on the drugs is the answer. I know that I keep saying stuff about the pain and stress center. I am not affliated wtih them. I have/am working with them and they are very resonable ($70 initial phone consultation, $40 every consultation after that) and they sell pharmasutial(cannot spell - sorry) amino acids and liquid amino acids made to very high standards that are easily absorbed by even the most toxic body and very reasonable in cost. If not them, then, check around - know who you are getting to help you. Hope this isn't too long, not trying to bore you, Janna

-------------- Original message from "gerald.fiore" <Dukka88: --------------

 

Thanks Ritz,I did read online that aminos shouldn't be taken with SSRI's and some even say not to take whilst tapering off SSRI's as well as they influence the same chemicals that the meds do and there are a few aminos, 22 and 8 of them essential meaning the body doesn't prodcuce them. Different aminos do different things, some relax you whilst others bring you up and so if you are anxious you take one, if you are low you take another, what if you have anxiety/depression? Take both? Have to speak to that amino doc!Gerald

[Guest guest]

I hear you ,

 

I am looking into amino acids but which ones? I need to speak to a

doc in that area. Although this may seem like a different topic to

cancer it does have something in common. I was watching some guy

speak about the Dr Kely protocol and he was saying how the body

somehow goes out of sync and causes the reaction of cancer in the

body, this going out of sync can be a few things but one of them

being the brain is under stress and therefore affects others organs

and the body doesn't functions as before, lower immunity etc., so

the brain or shall I say a happy brain is important in recovering

from or protecting against cancer. I see some people on some forums

that have stopped taking Paxil or other psychopharmaceutic and seems

like they have succeeded and yet some of their posts are angry,

bitter and they don't seem like happy people, this isn't success,

yes they've come off but at what price ~ they argue that staying on

destroys the liver/brain and at one point you will reach poop out

and yet they don't think about the anxiety or depressed state which

destroys your internal organs as the happy chemicals like endorphins

etc that are given off and benefit your whole system are replaced

with negative chemistry that is infeting your system, i.e.

crying/getting angry, anxious must be sending out destructive

chemicals all over your body and damaging the organs - so the dilem

is this your damned if you do and your damned if you don't.

 

If one could take aminos and other nutrients and feel happy then

that is fantastic and this is what I would like to try once I learn

enough about aminos and other nutrients, but to go off meds and

enter the door of anxiety or depression and fight the good fight

cause you know meds are bad for you whilst making your life hell and

everybody elses just does'nt make sense, I've been there many a time.

 

Another thing is that I've found that SSRI's or Paxil in my case

effects my gut, acid etc, I did read once about the enteric nervous

system and how 95% of the serotonin recepters are actually in the

gut, that would make sense seeing as my stomach problems surface

more when I am tapering or on a lower dose of Paxil. Another thing

is when would one take these alternatives because you can't take

them whilst you are taking Paxil and not when tapering off, whcih

doesn't happen overnight, I suppose the aminos must be able to

substitute the meds right away, why not?

 

I read my earlier post and said about a person whose cat had died

and realised maybe it was unsensitive, I had a dog that I loved and

when he passed away it did make me very sad and I suppose depressed,

I cried and felt that my best friend had passed away and so I don't

mean to belittle the passing away of a loving pet, I meant to say an

uncontrollable depression that if you don't take something then ....

 

G

[Guest guest]

Seaweed is very detoxing - it depends on how many other detoxing things you are doing. Could be you are reabsorbing some of the toxins from the prescription meds. Janna

-------------- Original message from "gerald.fiore" <Dukka88: --------------

 

Thankyou Nonie,I doubt I have a thyroid problem as my depression immediately responds to meds. But it is interesting the Iodine supplementation, I do eat seaweed a few times a week now and once a week maybe some eel, but on the packaging it says not to consume more than a certain amount of seaweed per week.G

[Guest guest]

Gerald,

I am not , although I appreciate being confused with her. You can take some amino acids coming off the meds.

Some of the people who have come off have done nothing to restore balance to their bodies and yes, all of the stuffed feelings do resurface - grief, anger, etc. You do have to deal with them. Therapy or EFT or both can help. Liver cleanse, colon cleanse, Schultze's detox tea, probiotics can remove the left over drugs from your system and will help with stomach problems. Janna

-------------- Original message from "gerald.fiore" <Dukka88: --------------

 

I hear you ,I am looking into amino acids but which ones? I need to speak to a doc in that area. Although this may seem like a different topic to cancer it does have something in common. I was watching some guy speak about the Dr Kely protocol and he was saying how the body somehow goes out of sync and causes the reaction of cancer in the body, this going out of sync can be a few things but one of them being the brain is under stress and therefore affects others organs and the body doesn't functions as before, lower immunity etc., so the brain or shall I say a happy brain is important in recovering from or protecting against cancer. I see some people on some forums that have stopped taking Paxil or other psychopharmaceutic and seems like they have succeeded and yet some of their posts are angry, bitter and they don't seem like happy people, this isn't success, yes they've come off but at what price ~ they argue that staying on destroys the liver/brain and at one point you will reach poop out and yet they don't think about the anxiety or depressed state which destroys your internal organs as the happy chemicals like endorphins etc that are given off and benefit your whole system are replaced with negative chemistry that is infeting your system, i.e. crying/getting angry, anxious must be sending out destructive chemicals all over your body and damaging the organs - so the dilem is this your damned if you do and your damned if you don't.If one could take aminos and other nutrients and feel happy then that is fantastic and this is what I would like to try once I learn enough about aminos and other nutrients, but to go off meds and enter the door of anxiety or depression and fight the good fight cause you know meds are bad for you whilst making your life hell and everybody elses just does'nt make sense, I've been there many a time.Another thing is that I've found that SSRI's or Paxil in my case effects my gut, acid etc, I did read once about the enteric nervous system and how 95% of the serotonin recepters are actually in the gut, that would make sense seeing as my stomach problems surface more when I am tapering or on a lower dose of Paxil. Another thing is when would one take these alternatives because you can't take them whilst you are taking Paxil and not when tapering off, whcih doesn't happen overnight, I suppose the aminos must be able to substitute the meds right away, why not?I read my earlier post and said about a person whose cat had died and realised maybe it was unsensitive, I had a dog that I loved and when he passed away it did make me very sad and I suppose depressed, I cried and felt that my best friend had passed away and so I don't mean to belittle the passing away of a loving pet, I meant to say an uncontrollable depression that if you don't take something then ....G

[Guest guest]

Hi Gerald,Together with our emotional state, these are factors that greatly contribute to the depressive state:

The frequent consumption of caffeine

Consumption of sucrose (sugar)

Deficiencies of biotin, folic acid and vitamin B, vitamin C, calcium, copper, iron, magnesium or potassium.

Magnesium deficiency

Imbalances in amino acids

Food allergies.Amino acids that will help you are the following:Gamma-aminobutyric acid, or GABADLPA, or phenylalanineMelatoninSAMe. However, do not take SAMe if you suffer from bipolar (manic) depression.Other important supplements to take:Omega 3's, relieves depressionTrace Minerals, stabilized brain chemistryColloidal gold, uplifts moodiodine supplementation, too little iodine in your system results in anxietyMagnesiumAnd no, I do not recommend stopping your medication and substituting amino acids or any supplement. Take these while on the medication. These meds are highly addictive and must be withdrawn slowly. However, not until you are ready. And you will know when you are ready. I realize the seriousness of this condition. First thing is to build yourself up and one day you will realize that you feel well enough to go forward. The only thing I would not recommend doing on your own is taking herbs. That is why I am not recommending any herbs. If you go this route and, yes, because of the medication you are taking, you must seek the advice and be under the supervision of a professional. And I would recommend a naturopath who would oversee supplements, herbs, diet, and so forth.I understand your argument with regard to depression and unhappiness causing stress in your body and lowering your immune system to let certain conditions in. However, my argument all along has been that the medical community does nothing to address our emotions, our fears. They sweep it under the rug and give us pills that make us feel better, make us function. And although prolonged stress and unhappiness has a price on the body, so do these drugs. What we must realize is that emotions are a part of us. Both happiness and sadness. Our depression started somewhere. Something happened. We became sad. We could not fix it. Maybe we were forced to live with a situation. Over a period of time, the sadness snowballed and became out of control resulting in depression. And after a certain amount of time, we don't even remember what the root cause was. Doctors will tell us it is all about chemical imbalance, clinical depression, and by taking certain medication it will be fixed. And that we will probably have to take this medication the rest of our lives. And we buy it hook, line, and sinker, because our trusted source, our physician tells us so. Depression is the result of emotions that have not been dealt with. It is the result of anger not dealt with. And, to tell you the truth, I have been in the position that I have not wanted to face the "root" cause because it would be too painful. I'm not sure that I could take it. So, this is our dilemma. Sweep everything under the rug.Our depression tells us something. What? We are obviously sad about something. Yes, it is also physical, but not purely physical, there is an emotional component. These emotions are normal. We were born with them and to deny them is wrong. We were made to be happy, we were made to be sad, and we were made to cry. After all, we are equipped with tears. The secret is in how we handle it. If we run, if we hide, if we are lost as to how to solve these issues, it results in debilitating depression that not only affects us "mentally" but also physically. We need to handle these emotions constructively and sometimes we need help. This is where a good therapist would come in. And I know they are out there, but are few and far between. And, of course, you need a therapist that "understands our condition." Many have no clue. It is merely what they have been "schooled" and go by a "book." They have their own timeline as to how we should react and progress. Of course, we are all individuals and we will all "react" and "progress" in our own way. It is called "growth."As to those who are no longer taking Paxil and have anger and other issues. Again, I would not lump it into an "everybody" situation. That is their own individual experience and their anger or other issues is telling them that there are issues that they need to look at and address constructively. We should never base what our future experience might be by others experiences. This is fear based.I will tell you one thing, as I was withdrawing from Paxil I got to know my emotions again. whooaaaaa! And at times they were quite severe. At times they can still be quite severe. If I am happy, I bask in it. If I am sad, I ask why? If I need to cry, I do. Suppressing tears leads to depression. Bottling up emotions leads to depression. We were not made to be "happy" all the time. Yet, I believe that in this "convenient" world that we grew up in, this is what we expect. So when sadness comes along, we do everything we can to run from it. And sometimes we need to go through the sadness. Not depression mind you, sadness. Going through the sadness constructively will not let depression seep in.And, lastly, just because I am off Paxil and other drugs by no means infers that I have no challenges. On the contrary. So Gerald, I truly understand all you say more than you know. Sometimes life's issues come up that hit my "root" issues flaring up fears and insecurities. Some I believe that may have grown to be unwashable stains. And sometimes it can be a bumpy ride. Although having someone to support me is very important, it is I that must reconcile these issues in myself and know that many are those old fears and insecurities resurfacing. And it is I who needs to examine myself to see what is going on. How can I deal with all this "constructively?" That is the key. You see, because depression, anxiety, and panic occurs when you find yourself between a rock and a hard spot. You feel powerless to do anything. Right now, I am working on expanding my ebook, "The 8 Invisible Stains of Our Souls" and I am going to tailor it more to panic, anxiety, and depression as this condition is far too common than we realize. Yet, before withdrawing from these drugs you must feel comfortable doing so. I have never believed in "white knuckling" anything. First of all, you need to deal with the physical and emotional aspects of this condition. The root problem if you can. Sometimes the root problem is buried so deeply that we cannot find it. A new way of thinking is very important and the most important of all is loving oneself. Giving yourself the unconditional love and acceptance of who and what you really are, in all situations, in all conditions, when you do right or wrong, in sickness and in health. This love and acceptance will go a long way.Don't look at the "big picture." Don't project. Take one baby step at a time and you will get there.Hugs,oleander soup , "gerald.fiore" <Dukka88 wrote:>> I hear you ,> > I am looking into amino acids but which ones? I need to speak to a > doc in that area. Although this may seem like a different topic to > cancer it does have something in common. I was watching some guy > speak about the Dr Kely protocol and he was saying how the body > somehow goes out of sync and causes the reaction of cancer in the > body, this going out of sync can be a few things but one of them > being the brain is under stress and therefore affects others organs > and the body doesn't functions as before, lower immunity etc., so > the brain or shall I say a happy brain is important in recovering > from or protecting against cancer. I see some people on some forums > that have stopped taking Paxil or other psychopharmaceutic and seems > like they have succeeded and yet some of their posts are angry, > bitter and they don't seem like happy people, this isn't success, > yes they've come off but at what price ~ they argue that staying on > destroys the liver/brain and at one point you will reach poop out > and yet they don't think about the anxiety or depressed state which > destroys your internal organs as the happy chemicals like endorphins > etc that are given off and benefit your whole system are replaced > with negative chemistry that is infeting your system, i.e. > crying/getting angry, anxious must be sending out destructive > chemicals all over your body and damaging the organs - so the dilem > is this your damned if you do and your damned if you don't.> > If one could take aminos and other nutrients and feel happy then > that is fantastic and this is what I would like to try once I learn > enough about aminos and other nutrients, but to go off meds and > enter the door of anxiety or depression and fight the good fight > cause you know meds are bad for you whilst making your life hell and > everybody elses just does'nt make sense, I've been there many a time.> > Another thing is that I've found that SSRI's or Paxil in my case > effects my gut, acid etc, I did read once about the enteric nervous > system and how 95% of the serotonin recepters are actually in the > gut, that would make sense seeing as my stomach problems surface > more when I am tapering or on a lower dose of Paxil. Another thing > is when would one take these alternatives because you can't take > them whilst you are taking Paxil and not when tapering off, whcih > doesn't happen overnight, I suppose the aminos must be able to > substitute the meds right away, why not?> > I read my earlier post and said about a person whose cat had died > and realised maybe it was unsensitive, I had a dog that I loved and > when he passed away it did make me very sad and I suppose depressed, > I cried and felt that my best friend had passed away and so I don't > mean to belittle the passing away of a loving pet, I meant to say an > uncontrollable depression that if you don't take something then ....> > G>

[Guest guest]

Haha ... great post! I really agree with what you are saying.

 

It's funny that when you most feel you are ready to come off you are

actually under the influence of Seroxat/Paxil and so there is never

a good time or bad time to come off really, as the medication starts

coming out of your system THEN it seems a bad time to come off, you

know what I mean?

 

I know there are two views to the cause of depression, the Trauma

and the Biological, one is reactive depression and the other is a

chemical imbalance. I have gone down both roads and know as much as

I can about myself by talking to some guy/lady once a week for about

5 years or so, still didn't change depression/anxiety ~ I know what

did, and it was the pill, I must say that if this pill was not

around I am not even sure I'd be here and so I cannot say it's a bad

thing in all honesty as it does save people in the short term at

least unless they have a bad reaction as some do.

 

And so I know that meds or nutrients that effect the brain can work

for me at least. I think the aminos all work differently GABA may

relax you more which is ok for anxiety whereas others lift you up, I

wonder if they have to used as a synergystic group or one their own?

 

Gerald

[Guest guest]

Although flax oil is wonderful fabulous and awesome the question is....are you genetically predisposed to convert the acids you need from flax oil or should you just bite the bullet and take the nasty fish oil. I hate fish. Even Corromega tastes nasty to me. I take it. My heritage is mostly American Indian and Celtic. I want to reiterate the point that I think that in the long run, making sure your BRAIN has the stuff it needs to run, is going to be better for it than taking antidepressant meds. C

 

PS: Dude, another way to go with Flax is to buy the whole seed and grind it to use it in your diet (it stays fresher longer and has less grit in it that way). That will help with cleaning and elimination.

[Guest guest]

Janna,

 

Sorry, hehe. Which ones though, have to look into which ones, if I take a megadose of eash one apart from hurting my pocket will it send me nutty I wonder?

 

Gerald

 

 

oleander soup From: cr8iveartDate: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 16:53:47 +0000Re: Re: woohoo! in your FACE western medicine!

 

Gerald,

I am not , although I appreciate being confused with her. You can take some amino acids coming off the meds.

Some of the people who have come off have done nothing to restore balance to their bodies and yes, all of the stuffed feelings do resurface - grief, anger, etc. You do have to deal with them. Therapy or EFT or both can help. Liver cleanse, colon cleanse, Schultze's detox tea, probiotics can remove the left over drugs from your system and will help with stomach problems. Janna

-------------- Original message from "gerald.fiore" <Dukka88: --------------

 

I hear you ,I am looking into amino acids but which ones? I need to speak to a doc in that area. Although this may seem like a different topic to cancer it does have something in common. I was watching some guy speak about the Dr Kely protocol and he was saying how the body somehow goes out of sync and causes the reaction of cancer in the body, this going out of sync can be a few things but one of them being the brain is under stress and therefore affects others organs and the body doesn't functions as before, lower immunity etc., so the brain or shall I say a happy brain is important in recovering from or protecting against cancer. I see some people on some forums that have stopped taking Paxil or other psychopharmaceutic and seems like they have succeeded and yet some of their posts are angry, bitter and they don't seem like happy people, this isn't success, yes they've come off but at what price ~ they argue that staying on destroys the liver/brain and at one point you will reach poop out and yet they don't think about the anxiety or depressed state which destroys your internal organs as the happy chemicals like endorphins etc that are given off and benefit your whole system are replaced with negative chemistry that is infeting your system, i.e. crying/getting angry, anxious must be sending out destructive chemicals all over your body and damaging the organs - so the dilem is this your damned if you do and your damned if you don't.If one could take aminos and other nutrients and feel happy then that is fantastic and this is what I would like to try once I learn enough about aminos and other nutrients, but to go off meds and enter the door of anxiety or depression and fight the good fight cause you know meds are bad for you whilst making your life hell and everybody elses just does'nt make sense, I've been there many a time.Another thing is that I've found that SSRI's or Paxil in my case effects my gut, acid etc, I did read once about the enteric nervous system and how 95% of the serotonin recepters are actually in the gut, that would make sense seeing as my stomach problems surface more when I am tapering or on a lower dose of Paxil. Another thing is when would one take these alternatives because you can't take them whilst you are taking Paxil and not when tapering off, whcih doesn't happen overnight, I suppose the aminos must be able to substitute the meds right away, why not?I read my earlier post and said about a person whose cat had died and realised maybe it was unsensitive, I had a dog that I loved and when he passed away it did make me very sad and I suppose depressed, I cried and felt that my best friend had passed away and so I don't mean to belittle the passing away of a loving pet, I meant to say an uncontrollable depression that if you don't take something then ....GWin £3000 to spend on whatever you want at Uni! Click here to WIN!

[Guest guest]

Not boring at all I very much appreciate your help, really!

 

I did look at the paincentre site and I could see the owners selling books and nutrients and did email them, I will try again.

 

I do have at home

 

TAURINE

L-ARGININE/L-ORNITHININE

B COMPLEX

 

will email Dr Shallie

 

Gerald

 

 

 

 

oleander soup From: cr8iveartDate: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 16:05:35 +0000Re: Re: woohoo! in your FACE western medicine!

 

You have to rebuild some of the imbalances that were created by the drugs. Yes, you are right - 5HTP is one that cannot be taken with SSRI's - really important, can cause really bad headaches and increased anxiety if taken with SSRI's. There are other amino acids that are very important to take - with withdrawal from any kind of antidepressant/anti anxiety medication. First, you rebuild the imbalances created by the drugs, this allows you to taper off the medication (if you want to), Once off the medication, you address the underlying cause(s) that got you on the medication in the first place. Your body does heal from these drugs. Like everything else, it is a process and does take time. You do have to know what you are doing with nutritional therapy. It is a growing field and there are people out there who are knowledgeable about it. And, yes, omega 3's help - but they donot "fix" or address the whole problem. The drugs deplete GABA, glutathione, glutamine, serotonin and quite a few others. They force your body to use up the store house that it has or in the case of SSRI's keep recirulating the serotonin in your body over and over, giving your glands no rest, hence adrenal fatique once off the medication. You have to start the nutritional therapy before you taper off the drugs, other wise you feel worse than you did before and think that going back on the drugs is the answer. I know that I keep saying stuff about the pain and stress center. I am not affliated wtih them. I have/am working with them and they are very resonable ($70 initial phone consultation, $40 every consultation after that) and they sell pharmasutial(cannot spell - sorry) amino acids and liquid amino acids made to very high standards that are easily absorbed by even the most toxic body and very reasonable in cost. If not them, then, check around - know who you are getting to help you. Hope this isn't too long, not trying to bore you, Janna

-------------- Original message from "gerald.fiore" <Dukka88: --------------

 

Thanks Ritz,I did read online that aminos shouldn't be taken with SSRI's and some even say not to take whilst tapering off SSRI's as well as they influence the same chemicals that the meds do and there are a few aminos, 22 and 8 of them essential meaning the body doesn't prodcuce them. Different aminos do different things, some relax you whilst others bring you up and so if you are anxious you take one, if you are low you take another, what if you have anxiety/depression? Take both? Have to speak to that amino doc!GeraldTry Facebook in ! Try it Now!