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Just going a step further whilst on the topic of breast feeding. Has anyone

had experience presribing herbs to the mother and then positve/negatively

affect the mother.

Eg if the mother has eg Hep B with a damp heat type pattern and cooling

herbs such as huang qin , yin chen, pu gong yin were prescibed would this

lead on to the child and possibly damage the childs spleen qi which is still

developing .

 

Heiko Lade

Registered Acupuncturist / Chinese Herbalist

2 Jenkins St.

Green Island, Dunedin

New Zealand

Tel: (03) 488 4086, Fax: (03) 488 4012

http://www.lade.com/heiko

Email: heiko

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  • 5 weeks later...

In a message dated 1/15/2001 4:03:36 AM Atlantic Standard Time, heiko writes:

 

 

E.g. if the mother has e.g. Hep B with a damp heat type pattern and cooling

herbs such as huang qin , yin chen, pu gong yin were prescribed would this

lead on to the child and possibly damage the child's spleen qi which is still

developing.

 

 

 

I have no direct evidence that herbs taken by the mother are passed on to the child. But choose to act as if I were giving the herbs directly to the child. As I can't see how they're not being passed on to the child.

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the most common sense advice that I know of is to advise women to take their

herbs after they nurse, to minimize exposure to herbs. A lot of it will get

metabolized before the next nursing. I nursed for a total of 5 years-took

lots of bitter cold herbs during that time, with no problems. I had a

colleague who took large- triple the normal dosage of China Herbs liquid BI

Yan Pian and her baby refused to nurse. I'm sure the milk tasted awful. I've

never had a problem. It might make more sense to have this woman rely on

herb such as Milk Thistle- and just keep her enzymes down. then, after

weaning, use the other, more bitter herbs.

Cara

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I have been under the impression that it is beneficial to breast feed for at

least 18 months, because the baby needs mothers milk for its antibodies.

 

 

Teresa

> , " heiko " <heiko@l...> wrote:

>

>

> > I just asked my Chinese mother in law and she said they normally

breast

> > feed for 1 year.

>

> thanks Heiko

>

>

>

>

> Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare

practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing

in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services,

including board approved online continuing education.

>

>

>

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on 1/15/01 9:54 AM, RDC1richard at RDC1richard wrote:

 

In a message dated 1/15/2001 4:03:36 AM Atlantic Standard Time,

heiko writes:

 

 

E.g. if the mother has e.g. Hep B with a damp heat type pattern and cooling

herbs such as huang qin , yin chen, pu gong yin were prescribed would this

lead on to the child and possibly damage the child's spleen qi which is

still

developing.

 

 

 

I have no direct evidence that herbs taken by the mother are

passed on to the child. But choose to act as if I were giving the herbs

directly to the child. As I can't see how they're not being passed on to the

child.

 

This sounds sensible. I have noticed in a few cases that when a mother is prescribed antibiotics, the nursing baby will get diarrhea. For me the question would be here whether the mother's digestion/metabolism would neutralize any of the bitter cold effects of the medicinals.

 

Pu gong ying is often prescribed to improve breast milk production, so it must be ok, if prescribed according to pattern.

 

 

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This sounds sensible. I have noticed in a few cases that when a mother is prescribed antibiotics, the nursing baby will get diarrhea. For me the question would be here whether the mother's digestion/metabolism would neutralize any of the bitter cold effects of the medicinals.>>>Many drugs are passed through breast milk. I have seen herbs given to the Mom for disorders of a baby.

Alon

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> In a message dated 1/15/2001 4:03:36 AM Atlantic Standard Time,

> heiko@l... writes:

>

>

> E.g. if the mother has e.g. Hep B with a damp heat type pattern and

cooling

> herbs such as huang qin , yin chen, pu gong yin were prescribed

would this

> lead on to the child and possibly damage the child's spleen qi

which is

> still

> developing.

>

>

>

> I have no direct evidence that herbs taken by the

mother are

> passed on to the child. But choose to act as if I were giving the

herbs

> directly to the child. As I can't see how they're not being passed

on to

> the

> child.

>

> This sounds sensible. I have noticed in a few cases that when a

mother is

> prescribed antibiotics, the nursing baby will get diarrhea. For me

the

> question would be here whether the mother's digestion/metabolism

would

> neutralize any of the bitter cold effects of the medicinals.

>

> Pu gong ying is often prescribed to improve breast milk production,

so it

> must be ok, if prescribed according to pattern.>

 

 

I think it is best to err on the side of caution. I share an office

with a massage therapist who has a 1 1/2 year old child who was born

universally allergic. Anything that she eats that is off her closely

watched regiman will cause hives, itching and extreme reactions in

the child almost instantly. This is an extreme case, but shows us

that what the mother eats/ingests definately is passed to the child

quite directly---

 

Mike Arsenault

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, Cara Frank <herbbabe@e...>

wrote:

> Right Z'ev- pu gong ying is an excellent choice- both for the breasts, the

> milk and the Liver.

> Cara

 

And in fact, pu gong ying is not contraindicated in spleen qi xu like

other bitter herbs, perhaps because it has a sweet flavor. On the

other hand, it is used to promote lactation and in TCM should only be

used if heat toxin or dampheat impairs milk flow. when milk flow is

restored, then PGY should be discontinued. I know dandelion is used

more as a nutritive in western herbalism, but TCM does not concur, it

seems

 

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, " Teresa Hall " <

Teresa.bodywork4u@w...> wrote:

> I have been under the impression that it is beneficial to breast feed for at

> least 18 months, because the baby needs mothers milk for its antibodies.

>

 

 

It is my understanding that all antibodies are conferred in the first

few weeks after birth

 

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that is not true- breast milk contains many immune boosters. and what's even

better is that if a woman only nurses, say 1x daily, her milk contains more

immune boosting components. So even a little nursing is much better than

none. the body adjusts the milk, based on demand. breast fed children have

higher IQ's, lower incidence of ear infections and URI's in gen'l.

Cara

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The norm in China today may be no more the optimum than the US norm is.

Both societies are dealing with conflicts between breastfeeding and work.

 

I think somewhere between 2-3 years is probably optimum. It isn't really

as depleting in the older years because the children are not relying

primarily upon breastmilk for food. There seems to be more depletion to

the mother in the first year, at least until around 9 months when the

hormones shift.

 

Childhood illnesses in undeveloped countries may have more to do with

poor maternal nutrition, the quality of alternate sources of food,

hygiene, good water and parasites.

 

I remember asking my youngest why he still wanted to nurse when he was

over 2 1/2 years old. He looked at me, remembering food discussions from

his naturopathic preschool and said, " Enzymes. "

 

Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden

***************************************

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" Each friend represents a world in us, a world possibly not born until

they arrive, and it is only by this meeting that a new world is born. " --

Anais Nin

 

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, Cara Frank <herbbabe@e...>

wrote:

> that is not true- breast milk contains many immune boosters. and what's even

> better is that if a woman only nurses, say 1x daily, her milk contains more

> immune boosting components. So even a little nursing is much better than

> none. the body adjusts the milk, based on demand. breast fed children have

> higher IQ's, lower incidence of ear infections and URI's in gen'l.

> Cara

 

I assume you are responding to me. It is best to provide a clip of the

original quote to be sure, though. I was refering to passive immunity

in my post, though perhaps this was not what Theresa meant in her

query. After doing a through medline search using a number of

different parameters, I discovered the following:

 

1. there have actually been only a handful of studies done on passive

immunity from breastmilk. It is a very poorly researched field. Most

of the ideas about immunity seem to be anecdotal or based on

speculation about the compositionof breast milk.

 

2. what is generally accepted is that the mother passes on her

acquired antibodies mainly in the colostrum for the few days after

birth. Pretty much all passive immunity has occurred within the first

few weeks.

 

3. The infant gut continues to allow passage of large protein

molecules for up to 4-6 months, which means the infant will acquire

additional antibodies developed by the mother during that time. this

may be very important in later protection from ear infection as the

mother will likely be exposed to the common bacteria involved in otitis

during this time.

 

 

4. After 6 months, the infant gut " closes " and no further passive

immunity occurs (this info was from John Hopkins, BTW). However

because milk is such a perfect food at this stage of development, there

are still nutritional benefits to be gained for another six months or

so after this. While Cara is correct about the health benefits of

breastfeeding, the concept of immune boosters (other than passive

immunity) in breastmilk is not generally accepted by the scientific

establishment. It is likely that it is the nutritional benefits that

provide further strength to the child's immunity, but it is definitely

not the transfer of passive immunity. Even in the absenceof so-called

immune boosters, mother's milk contains a full range of known

micronutrients, many of which are absent from formula. However, after

one year, the milk has generally deteriorated to the point that even

these benefits no longer exist. Dr. Wang, a Chinese professor at PCOM

(and a mother) was adamant to me when she insisted that breastfeeding

after one year was actually detrimental to the infant according to

chinese Medical experience.

 

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The highest concentration of antibodies may be passed during the first

few weeks, but it appears to continue at lower concentrations. Babies

fed longer tend to be more disease resistant.

 

Karen Vaughan

CreationsGarden

***************************************

Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment.

" Each friend represents a world in us, a world possibly not born until

they arrive, and it is only by this meeting that a new world is born. " --

Anais Nin

 

______________

GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!

Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!

Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:

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So even a little nursing is much better thannone. the body adjusts the milk, based on demand. breast fed children havehigher

>>>It also seems to protect against diabetes.

Alon

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, Karen S Vaughan <

creationsgarden@j...> wrote:

> The norm in China today may be no more the optimum than the US norm is.

> Both societies are dealing with conflicts between breastfeeding and work.

>

 

It is my understanding that the advice to stop after one year is not a

modern phenomena in china, but a traditional medical recommendation for

many hundreds of years.

 

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  • 2 years later...
  • 2 years later...
Guest guest

, " nsorcel " <jen@b...> wrote:

> Raynauds - yes! I am overseas in Korea, so I don't have access to a

> lot of help. I did go see a korean LC, and she said I had a good

> latch (I'm doubtful) and that I had Raynauds and gave me a

> prescription for nifedipine, which I cannot fill (we aren't allowed to

 

 

.....

 

Sorry - meant that to go private. :(

 

JenB

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  • 3 years later...

Nah, for me, there was no truth to the myth that breastfeeding prevents breast cancer. I breastfed three children until they chose to stop, which came to roughly six years total. Breast cancer 11 years ago. I now have a different cancer, ovarian. Rhoda

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Perhaps it's a generalisation like "smoking causes lung cancer" - 2 rellies never smoked & got lung cancer. Not even 2nd hand smoke! They were exceptions. So we can say that you are exceptional!!

Love,

Maraucuja--- On Mon, 10/6/08, Rhoda Mead <hummingbird541 wrote:

Rhoda Mead <hummingbird541 breastfeedingoleander soup Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 9:15 PM

 

 

 

Nah, for me, there was no truth to the myth that breastfeeding prevents breast cancer. I breastfed three children until they chose to stop, which came to roughly six years total. Breast cancer 11 years ago. I now have a different cancer, ovarian. Rhoda

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