Guest guest Posted December 15, 2000 Report Share Posted December 15, 2000 Todd I just asked my Chinese mother in law and she said they normally breast feed for 1 year. Heiko Lade Registered Acupuncturist / Chinese Herbalist 2 Jenkins St. Green Island, Dunedin New Zealand Tel: (03) 488 4086, Fax: (03) 488 4012 http://www.lade.com/heiko Email: heiko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2000 Report Share Posted December 15, 2000 Just going a step further whilst on the topic of breast feeding. Has anyone had experience presribing herbs to the mother and then positve/negatively affect the mother. Eg if the mother has eg Hep B with a damp heat type pattern and cooling herbs such as huang qin , yin chen, pu gong yin were prescibed would this lead on to the child and possibly damage the childs spleen qi which is still developing . Heiko Lade Registered Acupuncturist / Chinese Herbalist 2 Jenkins St. Green Island, Dunedin New Zealand Tel: (03) 488 4086, Fax: (03) 488 4012 http://www.lade.com/heiko Email: heiko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 15, 2000 Report Share Posted December 15, 2000 Sorry That should of said positive/negatively affect the CHILD!! Heiko Lade Registered Acupuncturist / Chinese Herbalist 2 Jenkins St. Green Island, Dunedin New Zealand Tel: (03) 488 4086, Fax: (03) 488 4012 http://www.lade.com/heiko Email: heiko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2001 Report Share Posted January 14, 2001 , " heiko " <heiko@l...> wrote: > I just asked my Chinese mother in law and she said they normally breast > feed for 1 year. thanks Heiko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2001 Report Share Posted January 15, 2001 In a message dated 1/15/2001 4:03:36 AM Atlantic Standard Time, heiko writes: E.g. if the mother has e.g. Hep B with a damp heat type pattern and cooling herbs such as huang qin , yin chen, pu gong yin were prescribed would this lead on to the child and possibly damage the child's spleen qi which is still developing. I have no direct evidence that herbs taken by the mother are passed on to the child. But choose to act as if I were giving the herbs directly to the child. As I can't see how they're not being passed on to the child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2001 Report Share Posted January 15, 2001 the most common sense advice that I know of is to advise women to take their herbs after they nurse, to minimize exposure to herbs. A lot of it will get metabolized before the next nursing. I nursed for a total of 5 years-took lots of bitter cold herbs during that time, with no problems. I had a colleague who took large- triple the normal dosage of China Herbs liquid BI Yan Pian and her baby refused to nurse. I'm sure the milk tasted awful. I've never had a problem. It might make more sense to have this woman rely on herb such as Milk Thistle- and just keep her enzymes down. then, after weaning, use the other, more bitter herbs. Cara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2001 Report Share Posted January 15, 2001 I have been under the impression that it is beneficial to breast feed for at least 18 months, because the baby needs mothers milk for its antibodies. Teresa > , " heiko " <heiko@l...> wrote: > > > > I just asked my Chinese mother in law and she said they normally breast > > feed for 1 year. > > thanks Heiko > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2001 Report Share Posted January 15, 2001 on 1/15/01 9:54 AM, RDC1richard at RDC1richard wrote: In a message dated 1/15/2001 4:03:36 AM Atlantic Standard Time, heiko writes: E.g. if the mother has e.g. Hep B with a damp heat type pattern and cooling herbs such as huang qin , yin chen, pu gong yin were prescribed would this lead on to the child and possibly damage the child's spleen qi which is still developing. I have no direct evidence that herbs taken by the mother are passed on to the child. But choose to act as if I were giving the herbs directly to the child. As I can't see how they're not being passed on to the child. This sounds sensible. I have noticed in a few cases that when a mother is prescribed antibiotics, the nursing baby will get diarrhea. For me the question would be here whether the mother's digestion/metabolism would neutralize any of the bitter cold effects of the medicinals. Pu gong ying is often prescribed to improve breast milk production, so it must be ok, if prescribed according to pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2001 Report Share Posted January 15, 2001 Right Z'ev- pu gong ying is an excellent choice- both for the breasts, the milk and the Liver. Cara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2001 Report Share Posted January 15, 2001 This sounds sensible. I have noticed in a few cases that when a mother is prescribed antibiotics, the nursing baby will get diarrhea. For me the question would be here whether the mother's digestion/metabolism would neutralize any of the bitter cold effects of the medicinals.>>>Many drugs are passed through breast milk. I have seen herbs given to the Mom for disorders of a baby. Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 15, 2001 Report Share Posted January 15, 2001 > In a message dated 1/15/2001 4:03:36 AM Atlantic Standard Time, > heiko@l... writes: > > > E.g. if the mother has e.g. Hep B with a damp heat type pattern and cooling > herbs such as huang qin , yin chen, pu gong yin were prescribed would this > lead on to the child and possibly damage the child's spleen qi which is > still > developing. > > > > I have no direct evidence that herbs taken by the mother are > passed on to the child. But choose to act as if I were giving the herbs > directly to the child. As I can't see how they're not being passed on to > the > child. > > This sounds sensible. I have noticed in a few cases that when a mother is > prescribed antibiotics, the nursing baby will get diarrhea. For me the > question would be here whether the mother's digestion/metabolism would > neutralize any of the bitter cold effects of the medicinals. > > Pu gong ying is often prescribed to improve breast milk production, so it > must be ok, if prescribed according to pattern.> I think it is best to err on the side of caution. I share an office with a massage therapist who has a 1 1/2 year old child who was born universally allergic. Anything that she eats that is off her closely watched regiman will cause hives, itching and extreme reactions in the child almost instantly. This is an extreme case, but shows us that what the mother eats/ingests definately is passed to the child quite directly--- Mike Arsenault Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2001 Report Share Posted January 16, 2001 , Cara Frank <herbbabe@e...> wrote: > Right Z'ev- pu gong ying is an excellent choice- both for the breasts, the > milk and the Liver. > Cara And in fact, pu gong ying is not contraindicated in spleen qi xu like other bitter herbs, perhaps because it has a sweet flavor. On the other hand, it is used to promote lactation and in TCM should only be used if heat toxin or dampheat impairs milk flow. when milk flow is restored, then PGY should be discontinued. I know dandelion is used more as a nutritive in western herbalism, but TCM does not concur, it seems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2001 Report Share Posted January 16, 2001 , " Teresa Hall " < Teresa.bodywork4u@w...> wrote: > I have been under the impression that it is beneficial to breast feed for at > least 18 months, because the baby needs mothers milk for its antibodies. > It is my understanding that all antibodies are conferred in the first few weeks after birth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2001 Report Share Posted January 16, 2001 that is not true- breast milk contains many immune boosters. and what's even better is that if a woman only nurses, say 1x daily, her milk contains more immune boosting components. So even a little nursing is much better than none. the body adjusts the milk, based on demand. breast fed children have higher IQ's, lower incidence of ear infections and URI's in gen'l. Cara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2001 Report Share Posted January 16, 2001 The norm in China today may be no more the optimum than the US norm is. Both societies are dealing with conflicts between breastfeeding and work. I think somewhere between 2-3 years is probably optimum. It isn't really as depleting in the older years because the children are not relying primarily upon breastmilk for food. There seems to be more depletion to the mother in the first year, at least until around 9 months when the hormones shift. Childhood illnesses in undeveloped countries may have more to do with poor maternal nutrition, the quality of alternate sources of food, hygiene, good water and parasites. I remember asking my youngest why he still wanted to nurse when he was over 2 1/2 years old. He looked at me, remembering food discussions from his naturopathic preschool and said, " Enzymes. " Karen Vaughan CreationsGarden *************************************** Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment. " Each friend represents a world in us, a world possibly not born until they arrive, and it is only by this meeting that a new world is born. " -- Anais Nin ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2001 Report Share Posted January 16, 2001 , Cara Frank <herbbabe@e...> wrote: > that is not true- breast milk contains many immune boosters. and what's even > better is that if a woman only nurses, say 1x daily, her milk contains more > immune boosting components. So even a little nursing is much better than > none. the body adjusts the milk, based on demand. breast fed children have > higher IQ's, lower incidence of ear infections and URI's in gen'l. > Cara I assume you are responding to me. It is best to provide a clip of the original quote to be sure, though. I was refering to passive immunity in my post, though perhaps this was not what Theresa meant in her query. After doing a through medline search using a number of different parameters, I discovered the following: 1. there have actually been only a handful of studies done on passive immunity from breastmilk. It is a very poorly researched field. Most of the ideas about immunity seem to be anecdotal or based on speculation about the compositionof breast milk. 2. what is generally accepted is that the mother passes on her acquired antibodies mainly in the colostrum for the few days after birth. Pretty much all passive immunity has occurred within the first few weeks. 3. The infant gut continues to allow passage of large protein molecules for up to 4-6 months, which means the infant will acquire additional antibodies developed by the mother during that time. this may be very important in later protection from ear infection as the mother will likely be exposed to the common bacteria involved in otitis during this time. 4. After 6 months, the infant gut " closes " and no further passive immunity occurs (this info was from John Hopkins, BTW). However because milk is such a perfect food at this stage of development, there are still nutritional benefits to be gained for another six months or so after this. While Cara is correct about the health benefits of breastfeeding, the concept of immune boosters (other than passive immunity) in breastmilk is not generally accepted by the scientific establishment. It is likely that it is the nutritional benefits that provide further strength to the child's immunity, but it is definitely not the transfer of passive immunity. Even in the absenceof so-called immune boosters, mother's milk contains a full range of known micronutrients, many of which are absent from formula. However, after one year, the milk has generally deteriorated to the point that even these benefits no longer exist. Dr. Wang, a Chinese professor at PCOM (and a mother) was adamant to me when she insisted that breastfeeding after one year was actually detrimental to the infant according to chinese Medical experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2001 Report Share Posted January 16, 2001 The highest concentration of antibodies may be passed during the first few weeks, but it appears to continue at lower concentrations. Babies fed longer tend to be more disease resistant. Karen Vaughan CreationsGarden *************************************** Email advice is not a substitute for medical treatment. " Each friend represents a world in us, a world possibly not born until they arrive, and it is only by this meeting that a new world is born. " -- Anais Nin ______________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 16, 2001 Report Share Posted January 16, 2001 So even a little nursing is much better thannone. the body adjusts the milk, based on demand. breast fed children havehigher >>>It also seems to protect against diabetes. Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 17, 2001 Report Share Posted January 17, 2001 , Karen S Vaughan < creationsgarden@j...> wrote: > The norm in China today may be no more the optimum than the US norm is. > Both societies are dealing with conflicts between breastfeeding and work. > It is my understanding that the advice to stop after one year is not a modern phenomena in china, but a traditional medical recommendation for many hundreds of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 8, 2003 Report Share Posted February 8, 2003 , " <@h...> " <@h...> wrote: > What are the C.I. with herbs and breastfeeding?? Here's one perspective from Subhuti Dharmananda: http://www.itmonline.org/arts/breast.htm Robert Hayden http://jabinet.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 8, 2005 Report Share Posted June 8, 2005 , " nsorcel " <jen@b...> wrote: > Raynauds - yes! I am overseas in Korea, so I don't have access to a > lot of help. I did go see a korean LC, and she said I had a good > latch (I'm doubtful) and that I had Raynauds and gave me a > prescription for nifedipine, which I cannot fill (we aren't allowed to ..... Sorry - meant that to go private. JenB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Nah, for me, there was no truth to the myth that breastfeeding prevents breast cancer. I breastfed three children until they chose to stop, which came to roughly six years total. Breast cancer 11 years ago. I now have a different cancer, ovarian. Rhoda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2008 Report Share Posted October 7, 2008 Perhaps it's a generalisation like "smoking causes lung cancer" - 2 rellies never smoked & got lung cancer. Not even 2nd hand smoke! They were exceptions. So we can say that you are exceptional!! Love, Maraucuja--- On Mon, 10/6/08, Rhoda Mead <hummingbird541 wrote: Rhoda Mead <hummingbird541 breastfeedingoleander soup Date: Monday, October 6, 2008, 9:15 PM Nah, for me, there was no truth to the myth that breastfeeding prevents breast cancer. I breastfed three children until they chose to stop, which came to roughly six years total. Breast cancer 11 years ago. I now have a different cancer, ovarian. Rhoda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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