Herxheimer reaction question

August 26, 2008

I started treating my dogs with oleander from Sutherlandia OPC a week

ago Monday. My younger dog hasn't shown any effects, which I would

expect, since his cancer load is undetectable after amputation of his

front leg.

My older dog, who was diagnosed with histiocytosis in December, is in

much worse shape, with tumors in multiple sites, including his right

shoulder and spine, as well as internal organs. We have done three

vitamin C IV's since late July, along with a couple of acupuncture

treatements and he has been improving slowly but steadily over the

past month. I got him up to his target dosage (based on 2/3 of the

dosage recommendation for a 60 k human) as of Saturday and Sunday he

began to decline. He was very tired Sunday and yesterday, although

not lethargic. He also groaned and panted a lot Sunday night and

more last night, although his appetite was pretty normal yesterday.

Today he is very uncomfortable and is panting and trembling, although

not groaning as much. I know that oleander can produce rapid

heartbeat and nausea and that the more toxins are being eliminated

from the body, the more intensely the body can react.

My questions are: 1) what is a reasonable amount of time in which to

expect some, even if very slight, improvement from oleander and 2)

have others experienced this type of reaction in advanced cases of

cancer when recovery is taking place? Histio is notorius for being

aggressive, but this is such a huge change from the way Gus was

feeling up until Saturday. He's not giving me the " let me go " look,

it's still the " figure out how to help me " look, but I need to know

if it's reasonable to think he's going to improve.

Shannon

August 26, 2008

Bless your dog's heart - the cancer appears to be quite advanced and

widespread. What size is your dog? Perhaps you should back off a bit

on the dose size for now, or else stop giving it altogether for the

moment and see if there is any improvement and then perhaps slowly

re-introduce it.

Yes, there could be some Herx reaction going on, but you may need to

go a bit easier on the oleander at first. Remember, it is recommended

that you start off with a smaller amount and gradually increase so

that the body is able to acclimate itself.

Also, what other supplements/medications are you giving your dog? Do

you have any colloidal silver? Your dog may respond very well to

adding some colloidal silver to the drinking water.

As far as the time it takes to see positive reactions, it varies

widely and can be as little as a couple of weeks to two, three months

and more.

Another thought is IP6/inositol. Many animals with cancer tumors

respond very well to it.

oleander soup , " shannonmadonna "

<shannonmadonna wrote:

>

> I started treating my dogs with oleander from Sutherlandia OPC a week

> ago Monday. My younger dog hasn't shown any effects, which I would

> expect, since his cancer load is undetectable after amputation of his

> front leg.

>

> My older dog, who was diagnosed with histiocytosis in December, is in

> much worse shape, with tumors in multiple sites, including his right

> shoulder and spine, as well as internal organs. We have done three

> vitamin C IV's since late July, along with a couple of acupuncture

> treatements and he has been improving slowly but steadily over the

> past month. I got him up to his target dosage (based on 2/3 of the

> dosage recommendation for a 60 k human) as of Saturday and Sunday he

> began to decline. He was very tired Sunday and yesterday, although

> not lethargic. He also groaned and panted a lot Sunday night and

> more last night, although his appetite was pretty normal yesterday.

> Today he is very uncomfortable and is panting and trembling, although

> not groaning as much. I know that oleander can produce rapid

> heartbeat and nausea and that the more toxins are being eliminated

> from the body, the more intensely the body can react.

>

> My questions are: 1) what is a reasonable amount of time in which to

> expect some, even if very slight, improvement from oleander and 2)

> have others experienced this type of reaction in advanced cases of

> cancer when recovery is taking place? Histio is notorius for being

> aggressive, but this is such a huge change from the way Gus was

> feeling up until Saturday. He's not giving me the " let me go " look,

> it's still the " figure out how to help me " look, but I need to know

> if it's reasonable to think he's going to improve.

>

> Shannon

>

August 26, 2008

Just to give you an idea how big Gus' heart is, he's outlived the maximum diagnosis by 50%. The cancer had spread through all his organs and there was a tumor on his elbow by mid-January, so I put him on artemisinin and we did several rounds of chemo. After a rough first week, he began improving rapidly (and completely off the charts, according to his oncologist) and had five really good months, where his health and energy were actually about where they were two years ago.

Right now he's getting artemisinin (300 mg 5 days on, 2 off), 2000 mg colostrum daily, an amino acid combination of 15 g glutamine, 5 g arginine, 2 g HMB, 900 mg turmeric 3x daily, 2400 mg milk thistle 2x daily, Vitamin C IV's alternate weeks, 3 - 4 g MSM daily, a calcium-magnesium-postassium supplement called Bone Up (also with copper, zinc and boron), 10 mg melatonin, and vitamin D and B12. I just ordered Pascalite, which helps remove heavy metals and other toxins and add Willard Water to their water. He probably gets around 2000 mg C combined from all the supplements. They were on neoplasene for about a month, but it was too difficult to administer. I was looking at the IP6 yesterday, the price is very reasonable from Utupia. With two large breed cancer dogs, I have to manage my expenses, they take a lot of meds and supplements between them.

I'll skip oleander today and give him 1 capsule a day after that if his symptoms abate. I used the instructions included with the oleander as a guide and calculated dosage based on 40 k instead of 60, but it did seem to me that the schedule increased pretty rapidly. The tumor on his spine affected his bladder and bowels - poor boy couldn't even wag his tail. The vitamin C IV's and acupuncture helped get those under control when we thought we'd lost him and he was doing so well, I hate to think this is it.

Thank you for getting back to me so quickly.

Shannon, Gus & Pilgrim (the Battling Berners)--- On Tue, 8/26/08, Tony wrote:

Tony Re: Herxheimer reaction questionoleander soup Date: Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 4:08 PM

Bless your dog's heart - the cancer appears to be quite advanced andwidespread. What size is your dog? Perhaps you should back off a biton the dose size for now, or else stop giving it altogether for themoment and see if there is any improvement and then perhaps slowlyre-introduce it.Yes, there could be some Herx reaction going on, but you may need togo a bit easier on the oleander at first. Remember, it is recommendedthat you start off with a smaller amount and gradually increase sothat the body is able to acclimate itself.Also, what other supplements/ medications are you giving your dog? Doyou have any colloidal silver? Your dog may respond very well toadding some colloidal silver to the drinking water.As far as the time it takes to see positive reactions, it varieswidely and can be as little as a couple of weeks to two, three monthsand more.Another thought is

IP6/inositol. Many animals with cancer tumorsrespond very well to it.Tonyoleander soup, "shannonmadonna"<shannonmadonna@ ...> wrote:>> I started treating my dogs with oleander from Sutherlandia OPC a week > ago Monday. My younger dog hasn't shown any effects, which I would > expect, since his cancer load is undetectable after amputation of his > front leg.> > My older dog, who was diagnosed with histiocytosis in December, is in > much worse shape, with tumors in multiple sites, including his right > shoulder and spine, as well as internal organs. We have done three > vitamin C IV's since late July, along with a couple of acupuncture > treatements and he has been improving slowly but steadily over the > past month. I got him up to his target

dosage (based on 2/3 of the > dosage recommendation for a 60 k human) as of Saturday and Sunday he > began to decline. He was very tired Sunday and yesterday, although > not lethargic. He also groaned and panted a lot Sunday night and > more last night, although his appetite was pretty normal yesterday. > Today he is very uncomfortable and is panting and trembling, although > not groaning as much. I know that oleander can produce rapid > heartbeat and nausea and that the more toxins are being eliminated > from the body, the more intensely the body can react.> > My questions are: 1) what is a reasonable amount of time in which to > expect some, even if very slight, improvement from oleander and 2) > have others experienced this type of reaction in advanced cases of > cancer when recovery is taking place? Histio is notorius for being > aggressive, but this is

such a huge change from the way Gus was > feeling up until Saturday. He's not giving me the "let me go" look, > it's still the "figure out how to help me" look, but I need to know > if it's reasonable to think he's going to improve.> > Shannon>

August 26, 2008

Shannon,

If you buy the IP6, don't get the powder...it contains xylitol, which is toxic to dogs!

Best wishes.Nonie

August 26, 2008

Nonie - thank you for the tip, I hadn't even thought about that. I actually decided to buy it from my local vitamin store, they have it in capsule form, but I'll double check the ingredients and make sure there's no xylitol. Experience has taught me that the only things my dogs will take in powder form are colostrum and glutamine, anything else I have to put into gel caps anyway.Shannon, Gus & Pilgrim (the Battling Berners)--- On Tue, 8/26/08, Nonie <nmsammy wrote:

Nonie <nmsammyRE: Re: Herxheimer reaction questionoleander soup Date: Tuesday, August 26, 2008, 6:28 PM

Shannon, If you buy the IP6, don't get the powder...it contains xylitol, which is toxic to dogs! Best wishes.Nonie