Eating may/may not be a religion, but my cooking can be a religious experience

July 21, 2008

Animals may be here for their own reasons, though I doubt they had

much say in the matter. I know I didn't, but I am glad to be here,

warts and all (on me and on the planet).

The same could be said about plants you know. My veggies, just like

the farm pond catfish I feed, look pretty happy right now. Won't keep

them from getting eaten by yours truly though.

What I eat is not a religion, though I am a pretty good cook and some

dishes come pretty close to a religious experience. Just ask .

For example, my cod fish with lemon pepper, grated lemon rind, lemon

juice, garlic, butter and almond slices with side dishes of steamed

asparagus in lemon juice, butter and garlic and long grain and wild rice.

Mmmmm, mmmmmm, mmmmmm!

oleander soup , " Tammatha " <tammatha wrote:

>

> Passions & beliefs can also be felt in non-vegans no doubt. But

compassion should be universal. I have no problem ending the debate,

obviously it could be endless due to the fact that what we eat is such

a religion to us all. We can never dismiss the pain and suffering to

another being never helps anything or anybody regardless, we are

responsible for it everytime we put animals products in our mouth.

Health is also environmental and eating animals causes massive

pollution. Animals are here for their own reasons, just like us.

>

> It should also be recommended that whatever a person eats, it should

all be researched and be exercised with all due caution. Vegan or

not. Why should there be an exception for vegans.

>

> Tammatha

> -

> > oleander soup

> Monday, July 21, 2008 1:15 PM

> Vegetarianisn - the neverending debate

that needs to end

>

> Let's end the debate, OK?

>

> I agree with Dr. Lanphier vitually 100% and with my original post too.

> The more raw vegetables and fruits you eat, the better - up to a

> point. But not to the point of eliminating all meat from the diet for

> most people unless you are actively fighting cancer.

>

> The study appears to be a great one, albeit subject to many

> interpretations, as well as praises and criticisms - and surely more

> will come the more it is analyzed. The book may be a great read too,

> and is probably worth anyone's time to do so, but I have already seen

> enough reports to believe that it has been slanted towards the

> author's personal opinions in many ways, which is a natural thing for

> authors to do and is certainly a common thing for vegans to do - such

> is often their passions for their beliefs.

>

> If a person wants to be a vegan, for whatever reasons, then that is

> fine - I just recommend that they research well and exercise all due

> caution to make sure they are able to do so in a healthy manner.

>

> I will continue to recommend a mostly or all vegetarian diet while

> fighting cancer or other serious disease, and a diet that contains a

> great amount of raw vegetables and fruit along with some healthy

> organic free range, non-feedlot meat.

>

> I know there are people here with strong feelings on both sides of the

> issue, and we could argue the issues til the cows come home without

> resolution - so let's just say enough said and move on, OK? This is

> NOT the vegetarian debate forum.

>

> I am not going to try to convince healthy vegans to eat meat, but

> neither am I going to recommend people become permanent full time

vegans.

>

> >

> oleander soup , " Tammatha " <tammatha@> wrote:

> >

> > We all have our own experiences in life and opinions but there is no

> denying 20 yr scientific research this is not misinformation or

> passion. It cannot be denied the ramifications either of what eating

> animals is doing to humans and what it is doing to the planet. Why

> " branch- out " when something was so benefical to the body and

> environment, not to mention the animal. Compassion for others and our

> earth is in turn healthy (mentally & physically) for us all as well.

> >

> > Tammatha

> > -

> > Dr. Loretta Lanphier

> > oleander soup

> > Monday, July 21, 2008 10:35 AM

> > RE: Vegetarianisn

> >

> > Tony, I completely agree with you. Well stated. I think

> discussing things like this is very profitable because what we put

> into our body has a huge effect on whether or not the body heals.

> >

> > A vegetarian and mostly raw diet is always indicated when fighting

> disease. There are several reasons for this:

> >

> > 1) It gives the digestive tract a " rest " since fruits,

> vegetables, nuts, seeds, etc. are very easy to digest and thus the

> body can focus more of it attention from digestion to healing. The

> body has to put a lot of energy into digesting meat.

> >

> > 2) Fruits and vegetables when eaten correctly provide the body

> with important nutrients. Fruits and vegetables contain water,

> enzymes, oxygen (very important), and nutrients that the body can

> easily absorb, transport and utilize IF the digestive tract is working

> properly.

> >

> > 3) Fruits and vegetables can be consumed raw and thus you get the

> full synergistic benefit. While some do promote eating meat raw, I

> don't think this is a good idea considering the possibilities of

> parasites and the fact that unless you have butchered the meat

> yourself, you never know the circumstances or the handling procedures.

> Eating raw assures the full benefit of all of the healing properties.

> Steaming is next best and then cooking last. Over-cooking provides a

> " dead " result.

> >

> > People usually feel better on some type of a vegetarian diet.

> However, as Tony said, you must know what you are doing and I have

> seen even some very knowledgeable people have to stop being vegetarian

> because their body was breaking down. There is a lot of

> misinformation out there being promoted by very passionate people --

> but that doesn't make it truth in every instance or for everybody.

> >

> > Even my own dr encouraged me to " branch-out " a bit after healing

> from cancer. This was very difficult for me to do since this is the

> diet that helped my body to heal. After a while I realized that

> eating some organic, free-range meat now and then actually helped me

> to feel much better, but this was AFTER HEALING.

> >

> > Many vegetarians (those who eat no meat or dairy) look anorexic

> and some even have a " bugging " of the eyes which usually indicates

> thyroid concerns. They do not even have a healthy look about them.

> And some even go to tanning salons so that they will " look " healthy.

> Nothing wrong with tanning salons if used wisely, it's just that they

> know they don't look healthy so a tan helps with that health " look. "

> >

> > There are a lot of people out there that will lead people down the

> wrong path in the name of making a buck. And The China Study, as good

> of a book that it is (I agree with a lot of it) is not the FACT or

> " easy solution " that we may think. It is very easy to take

> information and make it say what you want it to say. On another forum

> someone gave a great synopsis of the book about how it was not

> completely correct, but I didn't save the post. I regret that because

> what was said was very good.

> >

> > " Campbell was able to draw a single unifying principle: 'People

> who ate the most animal-based foods got the most chronic disease. . .

> . People who ate the most plant-based foods were the healthiest and

> tended to avoid chronic disease.' "

> >

> > People have eaten meat for a long, long time and have remained

> healthy. That IS fact. It's only in the last 100 years or so that we

> have seen health decline so rapidly and there are many reasons for

this.

> >

> > My grandparents all lived to be in their 90's. They grew up on

> farms and ate " fresh and unadulterated " meat, milk, eggs and

> vegetables grown in gardens. They got plenty of sunshine and exercise

> and didn't have negative, visual media such as TV. Going to the

> " picture show " was a luxury that not many could afford. People took

> time to relax and had good sleeping patterns. They drank clean water

> and sugar was a luxury. They took responsibility for their health and

> learn how to heal themselves using herbs, etc. Families took care of

> one another and often had grandparents living with them. Just a

> completely different mind-set than what most people live today.

> Certainly they had their stresses and as my Mom used to say " life back

> then was not always as easy as the sitcoms portray. "

> >

> > We have adulterated everything in our lives that help to provide

> good health -- food, water, environment, emotions, mind, etc. We have

> pasteurized and literally cooked away all the healing qualities of

> foods. Then we pre-package these foods into toxic containers that are

> lined with chemicals and plastics. And we add toxic preservatives so

> that they food can sit on a shelf for long time periods. This is most

> likely WHY we see so much disease -- along with the fact that we

> consume pharmaceuticals like they are candy. We are killing ourselves

> in the name of convenience! Slowly but surely our fruits and

> vegetables are becoming adulterated and soon, if Monsanto and Dow have

> their way, the only type of fruits and vegetables available will be

> genetically modified and/or contain vaccinations or meds. Sound

> ridiculous? So did GMO foods 50 years ago. So did needing to

> purchase clean water! Personally, I think it is imperative that we

> teach our children and grandchildren how to grow organic gardens.

> Heirloom seeds are another thing that will probably be in short supply

> soon.

> >

> > Tony, I don't think you were being a grump and there was no need

> to apologize for telling the truth. I have seen vegetarians get

> cancer and I have seen vegetarians who look healthy and a lot who

> don't look healthy. So when fighting disease, allowing the body to

> rest and focus on healing by eating foods easiest to digest is

> imperative. However, once a person is well it doesn't mean that

> strict vegetarianism needs to continue as long as one is sensible and

> eats modest portions of clean meat and fish. Once a person is healthy

> and well, it's all about balance and making sure that what is consumed

> is clean and pure as possible.

> >

> > Be Well

> >

> > Loretta

> >

> > I have researched diet and nutrition extensively and I also know a

> >

> > number or vegetarians. Yes, you can get all the protein you need

from

> >

> > a vegan diet and you can even get all the amino acids and

enzymes too

> >

> > - but you HAVE to know what you are doing. Too many vegetarians, for

> >

> > reasons of ethics or perceived health benefits, simply eat all

fruits

> >

> > and vegetables and thing that is healthy. You have to eat the right

> >

> > mix and do so consistently for it to be healthy.

> >

> > If a person wants to be a vegetarian, that is fine - but please,

> >

> > educate yourself and be willing to eat the right varieties of

> >

> > vegetables, even supplementing if necessary.

> >

> > Some of the most experienced vegans ever - dating back to the 60's -

> >

> > put together a site detailing some of the problems and pitfalls with

> >

> > going vegan. Many of them stopped. The site is http://beyondveg.com/

> >

> > At that site, which I recommend anyone considering converting to an

> >

> > all vegan diet read, the have a very compelling section that debunks

> >

> > the myth of humans being herbivores.

> >

> > http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/comp-anat/comp-anat-1a.shtml

> >

> > Humans are clearly omnivores and meat has been a part of their diet

> >

> > for the entire 2.5 million years since genus Homo emerged. In other

> >

> > words, our bodies are adapted to include meat and to exclude meat

> >

> > entirely, while possible, is not what we are. And I might add that

> >

> > the myth about teeth is obvious - during the entire 2.5 million year

> >

> > there has not been one fossil of man that included the fangs and

> >

> > incisors of a carnivore, and yet there has never been a fossil of a

> >

> > non-meat eater found. Of course we do not have fangs and incisors

> >

> > like carnivores - we AREN'T CARNIVORES. We ARE omnivores.

> >

> > From the Natural Vegetarian Resource group itself comes this

> statement:

> >

> > " All the available evidence indicates that the natural human diet is

> >

> > omnivorous and would include meat. "

> >

> > As they point out, humans have a choice and do not HAVE to eat meat,

> >

> > but meat is nevertheless a part of a natural human diet.

> >

> > Part of my research into anti-aging and longevity involved examining

> >

> > the diets of the longest lived and the most healthy peoples in the

> >

> > world. They ALL eat some meat. Granted that the most healthy

ones eat

> >

> > only a small amount of meat and a lot of vegetables and fruits, but

> >

> > that is just what I recommend: mostly raw vegetables and fruits,

> >

> > nuts, seeds, roots, tubors, femented grain, no unfermented soy

(which

> >

> > far too many vegans consume).

> >

> > I guess the bottom line is that we can argue this subject until

we are

> >

> > blue in the face, but I will continue to recommend an almost

entirely

> >

> > or entirely raw vegetarian diet for actively fighting cancer and a

> >

> > diet that includes some meat otherwise.

> >

> > Live long, live healthy, live happy!

> >

> > > >

> >

> > ---

> >

July 21, 2008

Tony now you are just plain being silly hopefully...lol

Tammatha

-

Tony

oleander soup

Monday, July 21, 2008 3:29 PM

Eating may/may not be a religion, but my cooking can be a religious experience

Animals may be here for their own reasons, though I doubt they hadmuch say in the matter. I know I didn't, but I am glad to be here,warts and all (on me and on the planet).The same could be said about plants you know. My veggies, just likethe farm pond catfish I feed, look pretty happy right now. Won't keepthem from getting eaten by yours truly though.What I eat is not a religion, though I am a pretty good cook and somedishes come pretty close to a religious experience. Just ask .For example, my cod fish with lemon pepper, grated lemon rind, lemonjuice, garlic, butter and almond slices with side dishes of steamedasparagus in lemon juice, butter and garlic and long grain and wild rice.Mmmmm, mmmmmm, mmmmmm!Tonyoleander soup , "Tammatha" <tammatha wrote:>> Passions & beliefs can also be felt in non-vegans no doubt. Butcompassion should be universal. I have no problem ending the debate,obviously it could be endless due to the fact that what we eat is sucha religion to us all. We can never dismiss the pain and suffering toanother being never helps anything or anybody regardless, we areresponsible for it everytime we put animals products in our mouth.Health is also environmental and eating animals causes massivepollution. Animals are here for their own reasons, just like us.> > It should also be recommended that whatever a person eats, it shouldall be researched and be exercised with all due caution. Vegan ornot. Why should there be an exception for vegans.> > > Tammatha> - > Tony > oleander soup > Monday, July 21, 2008 1:15 PM> Vegetarianisn - the neverending debatethat needs to end> > > Let's end the debate, OK?> > I agree with Dr. Lanphier vitually 100% and with my original post too.> The more raw vegetables and fruits you eat, the better - up to a> point. But not to the point of eliminating all meat from the diet for> most people unless you are actively fighting cancer.> > The study appears to be a great one, albeit subject to many> interpretations, as well as praises and criticisms - and surely more> will come the more it is analyzed. The book may be a great read too,> and is probably worth anyone's time to do so, but I have already seen> enough reports to believe that it has been slanted towards the> author's personal opinions in many ways, which is a natural thing for> authors to do and is certainly a common thing for vegans to do - such> is often their passions for their beliefs.> > If a person wants to be a vegan, for whatever reasons, then that is> fine - I just recommend that they research well and exercise all due> caution to make sure they are able to do so in a healthy manner.> > I will continue to recommend a mostly or all vegetarian diet while> fighting cancer or other serious disease, and a diet that contains a> great amount of raw vegetables and fruit along with some healthy> organic free range, non-feedlot meat.> > I know there are people here with strong feelings on both sides of the> issue, and we could argue the issues til the cows come home without> resolution - so let's just say enough said and move on, OK? This is> NOT the vegetarian debate forum.> > I am not going to try to convince healthy vegans to eat meat, but> neither am I going to recommend people become permanent full timevegans.> > Tony> > oleander soup , "Tammatha" <tammatha@> wrote:> >> > We all have our own experiences in life and opinions but there is no> denying 20 yr scientific research this is not misinformation or> passion. It cannot be denied the ramifications either of what eating> animals is doing to humans and what it is doing to the planet. Why> "branch- out" when something was so benefical to the body and> environment, not to mention the animal. Compassion for others and our> earth is in turn healthy (mentally & physically) for us all as well.> > > > Tammatha> > - > > Dr. Loretta Lanphier > > oleander soup > > Monday, July 21, 2008 10:35 AM> > RE: Vegetarianisn> > > > > > > > Tony, I completely agree with you. Well stated. I think> discussing things like this is very profitable because what we put> into our body has a huge effect on whether or not the body heals.> > > > > > > > A vegetarian and mostly raw diet is always indicated when fighting> disease. There are several reasons for this:> > > > > > > > 1) It gives the digestive tract a "rest" since fruits,> vegetables, nuts, seeds, etc. are very easy to digest and thus the> body can focus more of it attention from digestion to healing. The> body has to put a lot of energy into digesting meat.> > > > > > > > 2) Fruits and vegetables when eaten correctly provide the body> with important nutrients. Fruits and vegetables contain water,> enzymes, oxygen (very important), and nutrients that the body can> easily absorb, transport and utilize IF the digestive tract is working> properly.> > > > > > > > 3) Fruits and vegetables can be consumed raw and thus you get the> full synergistic benefit. While some do promote eating meat raw, I> don't think this is a good idea considering the possibilities of> parasites and the fact that unless you have butchered the meat> yourself, you never know the circumstances or the handling procedures.> Eating raw assures the full benefit of all of the healing properties.> Steaming is next best and then cooking last. Over-cooking provides a> "dead" result.> > > > > > > > People usually feel better on some type of a vegetarian diet. > However, as Tony said, you must know what you are doing and I have> seen even some very knowledgeable people have to stop being vegetarian> because their body was breaking down. There is a lot of> misinformation out there being promoted by very passionate people --> but that doesn't make it truth in every instance or for everybody.> > > > > > > > Even my own dr encouraged me to "branch-out" a bit after healing> from cancer. This was very difficult for me to do since this is the> diet that helped my body to heal. After a while I realized that> eating some organic, free-range meat now and then actually helped me> to feel much better, but this was AFTER HEALING.> > > > > > > > Many vegetarians (those who eat no meat or dairy) look anorexic> and some even have a "bugging" of the eyes which usually indicates> thyroid concerns. They do not even have a healthy look about them. > And some even go to tanning salons so that they will "look" healthy. > Nothing wrong with tanning salons if used wisely, it's just that they> know they don't look healthy so a tan helps with that health "look." > > > > > > > > There are a lot of people out there that will lead people down the> wrong path in the name of making a buck. And The China Study, as good> of a book that it is (I agree with a lot of it) is not the FACT or> "easy solution" that we may think. It is very easy to take> information and make it say what you want it to say. On another forum> someone gave a great synopsis of the book about how it was not> completely correct, but I didn't save the post. I regret that because> what was said was very good. > > > > > > > > "Campbell was able to draw a single unifying principle: 'People> who ate the most animal-based foods got the most chronic disease. . .> . People who ate the most plant-based foods were the healthiest and> tended to avoid chronic disease.'"> > > > > > > > People have eaten meat for a long, long time and have remained> healthy. That IS fact. It's only in the last 100 years or so that we> have seen health decline so rapidly and there are many reasons forthis.> > > > > > > > My grandparents all lived to be in their 90's. They grew up on> farms and ate "fresh and unadulterated" meat, milk, eggs and> vegetables grown in gardens. They got plenty of sunshine and exercise> and didn't have negative, visual media such as TV. Going to the> "picture show" was a luxury that not many could afford. People took> time to relax and had good sleeping patterns. They drank clean water> and sugar was a luxury. They took responsibility for their health and> learn how to heal themselves using herbs, etc. Families took care of> one another and often had grandparents living with them. Just a> completely different mind-set than what most people live today. > Certainly they had their stresses and as my Mom used to say "life back> then was not always as easy as the sitcoms portray."> > > > > > > > We have adulterated everything in our lives that help to provide> good health -- food, water, environment, emotions, mind, etc. We have> pasteurized and literally cooked away all the healing qualities of> foods. Then we pre-package these foods into toxic containers that are> lined with chemicals and plastics. And we add toxic preservatives so> that they food can sit on a shelf for long time periods. This is most> likely WHY we see so much disease -- along with the fact that we> consume pharmaceuticals like they are candy. We are killing ourselves> in the name of convenience! Slowly but surely our fruits and> vegetables are becoming adulterated and soon, if Monsanto and Dow have> their way, the only type of fruits and vegetables available will be> genetically modified and/or contain vaccinations or meds. Sound> ridiculous? So did GMO foods 50 years ago. So did needing to> purchase clean water! Personally, I think it is imperative that we> teach our children and grandchildren how to grow organic gardens. > Heirloom seeds are another thing that will probably be in short supply> soon.> > > > > > > > Tony, I don't think you were being a grump and there was no need> to apologize for telling the truth. I have seen vegetarians get> cancer and I have seen vegetarians who look healthy and a lot who> don't look healthy. So when fighting disease, allowing the body to> rest and focus on healing by eating foods easiest to digest is> imperative. However, once a person is well it doesn't mean that> strict vegetarianism needs to continue as long as one is sensible and> eats modest portions of clean meat and fish. Once a person is healthy> and well, it's all about balance and making sure that what is consumed> is clean and pure as possible.> > > > > > > > Be Well> > > > Loretta> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have researched diet and nutrition extensively and I also know a> > > > number or vegetarians. Yes, you can get all the protein you needfrom> > > > a vegan diet and you can even get all the amino acids andenzymes too> > > > - but you HAVE to know what you are doing. Too many vegetarians, for> > > > reasons of ethics or perceived health benefits, simply eat allfruits> > > > and vegetables and thing that is healthy. You have to eat the right> > > > mix and do so consistently for it to be healthy.> > > > > > > > If a person wants to be a vegetarian, that is fine - but please,> > > > educate yourself and be willing to eat the right varieties of> > > > vegetables, even supplementing if necessary.> > > > > > > > Some of the most experienced vegans ever - dating back to the 60's -> > > > put together a site detailing some of the problems and pitfalls with> > > > going vegan. Many of them stopped. The site is http://beyondveg.com/> > > > > > > > At that site, which I recommend anyone considering converting to an> > > > all vegan diet read, the have a very compelling section that debunks> > > > the myth of humans being herbivores.> > > > > > > > http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/comp-anat/comp-anat-1a.shtml> > > > > > > > Humans are clearly omnivores and meat has been a part of their diet> > > > for the entire 2.5 million years since genus Homo emerged. In other> > > > words, our bodies are adapted to include meat and to exclude meat> > > > entirely, while possible, is not what we are. And I might add that> > > > the myth about teeth is obvious - during the entire 2.5 million year> > > > there has not been one fossil of man that included the fangs and> > > > incisors of a carnivore, and yet there has never been a fossil of a> > > > non-meat eater found. Of course we do not have fangs and incisors> > > > like carnivores - we AREN'T CARNIVORES. We ARE omnivores.> > > > > > > > From the Natural Vegetarian Resource group itself comes this> statement:> > > > > > > > "All the available evidence indicates that the natural human diet is> > > > omnivorous and would include meat."> > > > > > > > As they point out, humans have a choice and do not HAVE to eat meat,> > > > but meat is nevertheless a part of a natural human diet.> > > > > > > > Part of my research into anti-aging and longevity involved examining> > > > the diets of the longest lived and the most healthy peoples in the> > > > world. They ALL eat some meat. Granted that the most healthyones eat> > > > only a small amount of meat and a lot of vegetables and fruits, but> > > > that is just what I recommend: mostly raw vegetables and fruits,> > > > nuts, seeds, roots, tubors, femented grain, no unfermented soy(which> > > > far too many vegans consume).> > > > > > > > I guess the bottom line is that we can argue this subject untilwe are> > > > blue in the face, but I will continue to recommend an almostentirely> > > > or entirely raw vegetarian diet for actively fighting cancer and a> > > > diet that includes some meat otherwise.> > > > > > > > Live long, live healthy, live happy!> > > > > > > > Tony> > > > > > > > > > > > ---> > > > > > > >