high protein -exposed -reprise

[Guest guest]

, Duncan Crow

<duncancrow wrote:

Duncan I am not in any way associated with DrMc Dougall or any

product sold to the health concerned public.

You on the other hand are keenly involved in selling your unquallifed

consultation and a group of Whey products . This product has reserved

the name " undenatured " which appears to be only smoke and mirrors.

you get what a recent replier sent you ( a smelly mess) if you make

whey at home. Buttermilk is the traditionla food (see wikapedia)made

from the whey after butter is extracted.

 

 

Here is a brief reply from a well schooled person replied when i

asked about some of your earlier posts

 

.... " It sounds like he is connected to the supplement industry and

wants to protect his products.

 

The basic message that he is trying to give is that whey is

beneficial. He mentions that whey is better assimilated than

vegetable protein. What he is actually saying, possibly without

knowing, is that the protein in whey is broken down, at least in

part, into individual amino acids whereas vegetable protein has to be

broken down in the body through digestion. Of course, in the case of

whey, there will be some processed free glutamic acid (MSG) and that

the whey contains some neurotoxins, neurotoxins that are not present

in intact vegetable protein. "

end of his comment

 

The body building industry has little in common with health.Yes if

you think that getting large quantities of protien is a way to health

your's or the shelf after shelf of this dairy ( otherwisse waste

product)sold in " health " food stores will do that job. I would

recommend thse intrested in health to read Dr McDougall on protein.

 

For my part i would ask the moderators to engage some rules against

making this forum a place for undercover spam.

 

Billy

 

 

 

 

 

> Billy: more accurately,...snip

> Duncan Crow

>

> On 27 Dec 2006 at 8:14, wrote:

>

> >

> > Posted by: " billy171john " billy171 billy171john

> > Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:40 pm ((PST))

> >

> > drmcdougall.com/med_hot_protein.html

> >

> > i recently had occasion to take exception to some high protein

> > propaganda . please read this and the link above carefully before

> > paying for high protien foods especially supplements and isolates.

> >

> > Billy

>

[Guest guest]

Excellent advice Billy and I would also recommend (HIGHLY!) the book The China Study by T Colin Campbell, for anyone interested in what too much protein (especially dairy protein!!) REALLY does to the human body.

 

Drinking dairy protein is akin to lining up and begging to be injected with cancer cells.

 

Tricia

 

-

billy171john

 

 

I would recommend thse intrested in health to read Dr McDougall on protein.

[Guest guest]

Billy, I only pointed out Dr. McDougall's common errors; I didn't

expect that you'd feel the need to be contentious with the messenger

rather than the message.

 

How would you address these points?

 

1) Undenatured whey is alkalizing.

 

2) Undenatured whey has higher biological value than any other

protein.

 

3) Undenatured whey imposes no kidney load.

 

4) Undenatured whey contains high amounts of glutathione precursors.

 

5) Dr. McDougall failed to note these pronounced dissimilarities.

 

You have a strange way of asking for more information, Billy.

 

UNdenatured means unbroken, DEnatured means loss of its nature (of

being unbroken). Broken glutathione precursors don't produce

glutathione. Cold-processing the whey preserves glutathione

precursors.

 

This information is of crucial importance to health, and anyone who

thinks it's smoke and mirrors could look up the facts, just as they

could find out that butter isn't extracted from whey; it's extracted

from cream.

 

Anyway, your learned friend doesn't know that most components of

undenatured whey are absorbed directly without being broken into

their component amino acids. This direct absorption of BONDED

cysteine is exactly

 

a) how the crucial glutathione precursors get into the cells; on the

other hand free form cysteine can not enter the cells and is treated

as a toxin.

 

b) how this protein can be assimilated without imposing a urea burden

on the kidneys.

 

All this is very well-known in the health arena, and the knowledge

has made undenatured whey a very popular supplement.

 

With regard to the fellow's comment that glutamic acid is MSG; it

isn't, but it is GOOD for you Here's a quote... from peer-review

no less: " In human milk glutamic acid plus glutamine and taurine

were the prevalent amino acids, accounting for around 50% total "

http://tinyurl.com/y7fhyr

 

On the other hand, MSG is made by hydolysis of glutamic acid; that's

why there's no MSG in non-hydrolyzed whey or raw milk. Further,

traces of MSG in hydrolyzed wheys may be a contentious point for MSG-

sensitive people but those levels are pretty well inconsequential to

the vast majority of people who can clear glutamate.

 

Your friend doesn't know the material on which he commented, and

didn't look it up in time to correct his error. No big deal but I

would suggest you get your information elsewhere, and not Dr.

NcDougall because he doesn't know the difference either. I would

suggest Jimmy Gutman M.D.'s book Glutathione: your most powerful

Healing agent; it's got about 200 peer-reviewed references, many of

which are also in the glutathione references on my website. Another

good book is Gustavo Bounous' Breakthrough in Cell Defense. Bounous

was the proimary researcher on undenatured whey and glutathione.

 

All the best, Billy; I hope I've straightened a few points out for

you.

 

Duncan

 

 

, " billy171john "

<billy171 wrote:

>

> , Duncan Crow

> <duncancrow@> wrote:

> Duncan I am not in any way associated with DrMc Dougall or any

> product sold to the health concerned public.

> You on the other hand are keenly involved in selling your

unquallifed

> consultation and a group of Whey products . This product has

reserved

> the name " undenatured " which appears to be only smoke and mirrors.

> you get what a recent replier sent you ( a smelly mess) if you make

> whey at home. Buttermilk is the traditionla food (see wikapedia)

made

> from the whey after butter is extracted.

>

>

> Here is a brief reply from a well schooled person replied when i

> asked about some of your earlier posts

>

> ... " It sounds like he is connected to the supplement industry and

> wants to protect his products.

>

> The basic message that he is trying to give is that whey is

> beneficial. He mentions that whey is better assimilated than

> vegetable protein. What he is actually saying, possibly without

> knowing, is that the protein in whey is broken down, at least in

> part, into individual amino acids whereas vegetable protein has to

be

> broken down in the body through digestion. Of course, in the case

of

> whey, there will be some processed free glutamic acid (MSG) and

that

> the whey contains some neurotoxins, neurotoxins that are not

present

> in intact vegetable protein. "

> end of his comment

>

> The body building industry has little in common with health.Yes if

> you think that getting large quantities of protien is a way to

health

> your's or the shelf after shelf of this dairy ( otherwisse waste

> product)sold in " health " food stores will do that job. I would

> recommend thse intrested in health to read Dr McDougall on protein.

>

> For my part i would ask the moderators to engage some rules against

> making this forum a place for undercover spam.

>

> Billy

[Guest guest]

Tricia, I'm glad to help expose the high protein myth as so much more

breakfast fiber. The " dairy " myth too, by the way.

 

The most common dairy protein, bovine casein, is undoubtably not a

good thing for most people. I have no argument for that, although

some people digest it fairly well.

 

Human casein from human " dairy " is good for you; baby LIVES primarily

on a high-protein breast-fed diet for about two years in many

cultures adn some larger animals, with no ill effect. Obviously, the

high-protein diet is not at fault here.

 

Similarly, goat milk is generally well tolerated even by babies

because it contains far less of the irritating kind of casein that's

in cow's milk. IN fact it's a beeter match for humans than cow's milk.

 

So far so good; we've established common ground and an awareness that

that different components of milk have different properties. You

probably knew about the goat milk, and nobody contradicts the

benefits of human milk either

 

That being said, a lot of people obviously don't know, and some vegan

apologists don' WANNA know, any interesting details of " dairy "

components having different properties, what those properties might

be, or that there are also components that happen to be entirely

beneficial.

 

Some of these beneficial components aren't only beneficial for

humans, they are an exact match across the whole mammalian order.

There is no difference. So, if we can extract these beneficial

components from " dairy " and leave out the problematic ones, where do

the " dairy " or " high protein " arguments belong? Out the window,

completely.

 

Some of the undenatured wheys appoach that goal.

 

Duncan Crow

 

 

, " Tricia "

<pparadise30701 wrote:

>

>

> Excellent advice Billy and I would also recommend (HIGHLY!) the

book The China Study by T Colin Campbell, for anyone interested in

what too much protein (especially dairy protein!!) REALLY does to the

human body.

>

> Drinking dairy protein is akin to lining up and begging to be

injected with cancer cells.

>

> Tricia

> -

> billy171john

>

>

> I would

> recommend thse intrested in health to read Dr McDougall on

protein.

>

[Guest guest]

Is the whey that you refer to made from human breast milk??? If so, it would be appropriate for human babies. I do not personally believe that humans are supposed to be consuming anything that comes from cows, including your whey. And I believe that humans were designed to thrive on human breast milk until the age of approximately 2, but after they are weaned, they are DONE with it.

 

Anyone that doubts this really should do themselves a favor and read Campbell's book.

 

Tricia

 

 

-

Duncan Crow

Thursday, December 28, 2006 6:39 PM

Re: high protein -exposed -reprise

Tricia, I'm glad to help expose the high protein myth as so much more breakfast fiber. The "dairy" myth too, by the way.The most common dairy protein, bovine casein, is undoubtably not a good thing for most people. I have no argument for that, although some people digest it fairly well. Human casein from human "dairy" is good for you; baby LIVES primarily on a high-protein breast-fed diet for about two years in many cultures adn some larger animals, with no ill effect. Obviously, the high-protein diet is not at fault here.Similarly, goat milk is generally well tolerated even by babies because it contains far less of the irritating kind of casein that's in cow's milk. IN fact it's a beeter match for humans than cow's milk.So far so good; we've established common ground and an awareness that that different components of milk have different properties. You probably knew about the goat milk, and nobody contradicts the benefits of human milk either ;)That being said, a lot of people obviously don't know, and some vegan apologists don' WANNA know, any interesting details of "dairy" components having different properties, what those properties might be, or that there are also components that happen to be entirely beneficial.Some of these beneficial components aren't only beneficial for humans, they are an exact match across the whole mammalian order. There is no difference. So, if we can extract these beneficial components from "dairy" and leave out the problematic ones, where do the "dairy" or "high protein" arguments belong? Out the window, completely.Some of the undenatured wheys appoach that goal. Duncan Crow , "Tricia" <pparadise30701 wrote:>> > Excellent advice Billy and I would also recommend (HIGHLY!) the book The China Study by T Colin Campbell, for anyone interested in what too much protein (especially dairy protein!!) REALLY does to the human body. > > Drinking dairy protein is akin to lining up and begging to be injected with cancer cells.> > Tricia> - > billy171john > > > I would > recommend thse intrested in health to read Dr McDougall on protein.>«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§ - PULSE ON WORLD HEALTH CONSPIRACIES! §Subscribe:......... - «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»Other like groups: MedicalConspiraciesSubscribe: MedicalConspiracies- Post message: MedicalConspiracies List owner: MedicalConspiracies-owner «¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»1400 Member Group: MedicalConspiracies (One Word)at Google groups:http://groups.google.comMedicalConspiraciesPost message: MedicalConspiracies (AT) googl (DOT) comSubscribe: MedicalConspiracies- (AT) googl (DOT) com«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»§«¤»¥«¤»Any information here in is for educational purpose only, it may be news related, purely speculation or someone's opinion. Always consult with a qualified health practitioner before deciding on any course of treatment, especially for serious or life-threatening illnesses.**COPYRIGHT NOTICE**In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107,any copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml

[Guest guest]

Charles,

 

I am not sure what post of mine this in reference to...?? I am certainly not any huge fan of soy. I do not eat meat-analogs, at least on any regular basis, although of course I have tried them, and on special occasions like major holidays, I will fix them, because it helps bridge the gap between us and our SAD-eating extended family. But basically, I am the one who is into Whole Foods...and that is how we eat 99% of the time :-)

 

And yes, that is a fact.... the public has certainly been duped... and continues to be, on a regular basis :-(

 

Tricia

 

-

charles clark Hi Tricia I assume you know the truth about soy, don't you?I just learned the truth a few weeks ago...My, how the public has been duped...Charles Clark

[Guest guest]

Point I was making Trish is ALL mammalian whey has a high percentage

of alpha-lactalbumin, serum albumin, and a couple of other minor

fractions like lactoferrin, the primary glutathione precursors, which

are also a match across the mammalian order. What this means is these

ingredients are SAME THING as in human milk and they can be extracted

purely enough to not cause a species-related reaction.

 

No doubt as Chris pointed out, human milk would be better for humans

than any other milk, but here we have extremely useful components

that are a match, hugely healthy, but grouped within the vilified

label of " dairy " , even by people who should know better.

 

Duncan

 

 

, " Tricia "

<pparadise30701 wrote:

>

> Is the whey that you refer to made from human breast milk??? If

so, it would be appropriate for human babies. I do not personally

believe that humans are supposed to be consuming anything that comes

from cows, including your whey. And I believe that humans were

designed to thrive on human breast milk until the age of

approximately 2, but after they are weaned, they are DONE with it.

>

> Anyone that doubts this really should do themselves a favor and

read Campbell's book.

>

> Tricia

[Guest guest]

Duncan I do not acknowledge you as an authority on this subject.

for those who want understand more before they take up buying and

consuming your merchandise I offer a clip that raise some questions

about your basic view.

 

" Glutathione is a small protein composed of three amino acids:

cysteine, glutamic acid, and glycine. Glutathione is involved in

detoxification—it binds to toxins, such as heavy metals, solvents,

and pesticides, and transforms them into a form that can be excreted

in urine or bile. Glutathione is also an important antioxidant. In

preliminary research, dietary glutathione intake from fruit and raw

vegetables has been associated with protection against some forms of

cancer.1 2 Glutathione has also inhibited cancer in test tube3 and

animal studies.4 In preliminary research, higher glutathione levels

have also been associated with good health in older adults.5

 

Glutathione supplements appear to be efficiently absorbed in rats.6 7

However, the same may not be true for glutathione supplements in

humans. For example, when seven healthy subjects were given a single

application of up to 3,000 mg of glutathione, there was no increase

in blood glutathione levels.8 The authors of the study concluded " it

is not feasible to increase circulating glutathione to a clinically

beneficial extent by the oral administrating of a single application

of 3,000 mg of glutathione. " Absorption of glutathione may be better

in rats because unlike the gastrointestinal tract of rats, the human

gastrointestinal tract contains significant amounts of an enzyme

(gamma-glutamyltranspeptidase) that breaks down glutathione. Very

preliminary evidence has suggested that absorption of glutathione can

occur in the mouth when glutathione tablets are placed between the

teeth and the inner cheek.9

 

Some researchers believe that supplements other than oral glutathione

may be more effective in raising blood levels of glutathione. For

example, in one trial, blood glutathione levels rose nearly 50% in

healthy people taking 500 mg of vitamin C per day for only two

weeks.10 Vitamin C raises glutathione by helping the body manufacture

it. In addition to vitamin C, other nutritional compounds that may,

according to preliminary research, help increase glutathione levels

include alpha lipoic acid,11 glutamine,12 methionine,13 S-adenosyl

methionine (SAMe),14 and whey protein.15 Vitamin B6, riboflavin, and

selenium are required in the manufacture of glutathione. The extent

to which any of these nutrients effectively increases glutathione

levels in humans remains unclear. "

 

 

 

, " Duncan Crow "

<duncancrow wrote:

>

> Billy, I only pointed out Dr. McDougall's common errors; I didn't

> expect that you'd feel the need to be contentious with the

messenger

> rather than the message.

snip

[Guest guest]

Good article, Billy; I think it may be an old one since it mentions

test tube and animal studies on cancer and not in-vivo studies using

undenatured whey for glutathione increase on human patients with

cancer like the compilation on my site. Also, the article mentions

buccal absorption of glutathione, but not the local sinus, lung, and

bowel lining cell absorption.

 

How does the article raise questions on my basic view? I'm fine with

it; I only refer to one statement for further inquiry, " Vitamin C

raises glutathione by helping the body manufacture it " because as I

understand it vitamin C raises glutathione by a sparing effect rather

than a manufacturing rate increase, and cellular cysteine has been

identified as the rate-limiting factor.

 

Duncan

 

 

, " billy171john "

<billy171 wrote:

>

>

> Duncan I do not acknowledge you as an authority on this subject.

> for those who want understand more before they take up buying and

> consuming your merchandise I offer a clip that raise some questions

> about your basic view.

>

> " Glutathione is a small protein composed of three amino acids:

> cysteine, glutamic acid, and glycine. Glutathione is involved in

> detoxification—it binds to toxins, such as heavy metals, solvents,

> and pesticides, and transforms them into a form that can be

excreted

> in urine or bile. Glutathione is also an important antioxidant. In

> preliminary research, dietary glutathione intake from fruit and raw

> vegetables has been associated with protection against some forms

of

> cancer.1 2 Glutathione has also inhibited cancer in test tube3 and

> animal studies.4 In preliminary research, higher glutathione levels

> have also been associated with good health in older adults.5

>

> Glutathione supplements appear to be efficiently absorbed in rats.6

7

> However, the same may not be true for glutathione supplements in

> humans. For example, when seven healthy subjects were given a

single

> application of up to 3,000 mg of glutathione, there was no increase

> in blood glutathione levels.8 The authors of the study

concluded " it

> is not feasible to increase circulating glutathione to a clinically

> beneficial extent by the oral administrating of a single

application

> of 3,000 mg of glutathione. " Absorption of glutathione may be

better

> in rats because unlike the gastrointestinal tract of rats, the

human

> gastrointestinal tract contains significant amounts of an enzyme

> (gamma-glutamyltranspeptidase) that breaks down glutathione. Very

> preliminary evidence has suggested that absorption of glutathione

can

> occur in the mouth when glutathione tablets are placed between the

> teeth and the inner cheek.9

>

> Some researchers believe that supplements other than oral

glutathione

> may be more effective in raising blood levels of glutathione. For

> example, in one trial, blood glutathione levels rose nearly 50% in

> healthy people taking 500 mg of vitamin C per day for only two

> weeks.10 Vitamin C raises glutathione by helping the body

manufacture

> it. In addition to vitamin C, other nutritional compounds that may,

> according to preliminary research, help increase glutathione levels

> include alpha lipoic acid,11 glutamine,12 methionine,13 S-adenosyl

> methionine (SAMe),14 and whey protein.15 Vitamin B6, riboflavin,

and

> selenium are required in the manufacture of glutathione. The extent

> to which any of these nutrients effectively increases glutathione

> levels in humans remains unclear. "

>

>

>

> , " Duncan Crow "

> <duncancrow@> wrote:

> >

> > Billy, I only pointed out Dr. McDougall's common errors; I didn't

> > expect that you'd feel the need to be contentious with the

> messenger

> > rather than the message.

> snip

>