Guest guest Posted January 12, 2004 Report Share Posted January 12, 2004 Hi Lisa, Mucus in and of itself is not necessarily a bad thing as you pointed out. What is bad about mucus is the constant eating of mucus forming foods. These make our bodies too acidic setting us up for all kinds of problems down the road. Continual use of mucus forming foods eventually plugs up your cells because the lymph (interstitial fluid around each and every cell in your body) gets all gummed up with mucus that it cannot efficiently get rid of due to the sticky gluey nature of mucus. It also can't get rid of it efficiently because there is no circulatory pump for the lymph system like there is for the circulatory system. So once your ECM (extra cellular matrix or interstitial space) gets all gummed up then nutrients cannot get into the cells and wastes cannot get out of the cells. So now what happens? Well no nutrients in means lack of oxygen. No oxygen means your cells are now going to revert to fermentation as a way to derive the energy needed to continue to survive. This is how cancer starts. All cancers are caused by cells turning fermentative. They become anaerobic due to lack of oxygen. Also, because the lymph vessels are all gummed up and not moving your blood will now attempt to remove the mucus. Now you have tons of this stuff floating around in your blood veins and plugging them up. This slows down the blood flow and sets one up for eventual stroke, massive heart failure, artheriscleosis, etc. For a person who eats a raw food diet high in fruits and green leafy vegetables, gets lots of sun, fresh air, clean pure water and lots of healthy exercise, mucus is not a problem and never will be. But because of our chosen lifestyles and choices in diet mucus does more harm than good in the long run. Symtoms that would lead one to do a detox are numerous indeed. Ill health being the main one. Just wanting to keep ones house, or temple, clean is another. What one should expect is a lessening ot toxins, excretion of accumulated wastes and mucus, lessening from or complete recovery of dis-ease. Yes, mucus in and of itself is not harmful. Each and every one of us makes it harmful by our own choices. Anyway, I do hope that I did not bore you to death with my little monolouge. I really should apologize for not first welcoming your to our group. Welcome Lisa and I hope you enjoy it here. There is much knowledge and truth here and I am hoping that you will share some of yours as well. Don Q. - akoonoo herbal remedies Monday, January 12, 2004 4:13 AM Herbal Remedies - mucus? Hi,I'm new to this group and am a 1st year chiropractic student at Western States. I'm interested in what kinds of symptoms would lead someone to do a detox, and what kinds of results are to be expected in the long run. I'm also wondering why mucus is said to be bad. Mucus in and of itself is not harmful. It's just various carbohydrates produced and excreted by the body as a way to remove particles, microbes, and dead immune cells from the airways and lubricate and protect the digestive tract. The material that the mucus is carrying away may be harmful, but I'm having a hard time understanding why the mucus itself should be considered bad. Are these detox explanations just over simplified? Am I looking to deeply into the definition of mucus?Thank you,Lisa P.S. My nick name is Crab Researcher because my hobby is to research and care for hermit crabs. ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Ain't no bugs here!Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release 1/8/04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 Thank you for your reply Don I don't mean to argue, and in no way do I mean anything personal, but I have a few rebuttals to make. Not that I disagree with detoxification, as I know little about this, I just am a little concerned that we are not talking about the same thing, or at least the same meanings of things. I'm still confused about mucus, because the mucus that I have learned about is always excreted by cells into a space outside of the body. And this space is tightly walled off by tight junctions and other cell adhesion structures that do not allow the passage of molecules back into the body. Therefore it would seem that the mucus (as I understand it) would not be able to get back into the ECM to cause a disturbance. Another thing is that anaerobic metabolism does not cause cancer, by any means that I know (and I have been the TA for 3 genetics classes and have a BS in molecular, cellular and developmental biology). Anaerobic metabolism produces lactic acid in the human body. Things that would cause cancer are mutations to DNA that do no get repaired before the cell divides. But these can't be just any old mutation. They have to happen in a very small set of genes for cancer to occur. There is a group of genes that tells the cell to divide and a group that tells the cell to not divide. Both of these groups must have mutations in order for cancer to start. The group that tells the cell to divide must have a " gain of function " mutation, which means that they will always be " on " (telling the cell to divide). The other group must have a " loss of function " mutation, so that they are always " off " (can't tell the cell not to divide ~ a double negative) Once both of these gene groups are changed in this way, there be cancer. High acid levels in the blood will not mutate the DNA, nor does the pH of our blood differ that much, as there is a very small window we can live in. Plus the lungs regulate the pH of our blood by blowing off CO2 to raise the pH. This is based on the bicarbonate buffer system which is the reversible reaction that follows: HCO3- plus H+ (acid) <--> CO2 + H2O Things that would cause cancer are things that are carcinogenic (a little redundant, I'm sorry) Things like free radicals will cause cancer and will also cause heart disease. Free radicals will oxidize molecules in a chain reaction that keeps oxidizing the next molecule. Sometimes this is DNA. These free radicals are quelled by " antioxidants " like vitamin C and E. Macrophages (a type of immune cell) in the body will eat free radicals in a selfless act to save the body from their danger. The macrophage will then use vitamin C and E to chelate the free radical rendering it harmless. But if the macrophage does not have vitamin E and C around, it will just keep hording all the free radicals it can find. Usually these macrophages will hang out just beneath blood vessels and stick there fingers into the blood flow to grab any free radicals passing by. If there is no vitamin C or E, the macrophage will just grow and grow. It will grow so big that it tears the wall of the artery just enough for a chemical to leave out that attracts smooth muscle. Smooth muscle will then start to migrate from around the blood vessel to the torn area, effectively tearing it some more. When the wall of the artery begins to tear on the inside, platelets will stick to it and so will other things. This is one way that plaque builds up on the lining of the arteries. And where do the free radicals come from? Anything burnt has a higher number of free radicals than non-burnt food. It is good to eat raw foods for this reason. But it is also interesting to know that the temperature to cause the formation of free radicals is higher than boiling. So, boiling food will not cause a significant amount of free radicals to form. The American diet includes many burnt things... and the easiest things to turn into free radical are fats and cholesterols. This is how the cholesterol scare happened. Cholesterol is not bad, but burnt cholesterol is. It will turn into a free radical and be taken in by the macrophage. Without vitamin E or C (or with a very high intake of free radicals to overrun the system) the macrophage will just fill up with free radicals and start to bulge into the artery and cause heart disease. The way you use the term mucus, may be the same way I use the term free radical. You say the problem is eating mucus forming foods. I say eating free radicals is a problem. You say mucus gets between the cells and disturbs their natural flow of nutrients so the cells must struggle. I say that free radicals will damage most anything they come in contact with and will disturb the natural flow of blood to the body by indirectly closing off the arteries. You say mucus will indirectly cause cancer. I say free radicals will directly cause cancer. Oooohhh, another similarity! You view a detox as a way to get rid of mucus. I view a detox as a way to metabolize fats and get rid of free radicals... because free radicals are often fats and cholesterols, and are therefore soluble in fat and stored there until they are freed for use. These stories are very similar, just the terminology is different. The end result is the same.... don't eat fried foods nor live a stagnant life style. Somehow, by explaining my view... I better understand yours. Thank you for your time. I look forward to hearing your response. I hope I have not offended you in any way. I view message boards as a chance to exchange new and different views. This time I hope I did not bore you, and thanks for the welcome. It is much appreciated. -Lisa herbal remedies , " Don Quai " <mysticalherbalist> wrote: > Hi Lisa, > > Mucus in and of itself is not necessarily a bad thing as you pointed out. > What is bad about mucus is the constant eating of mucus forming foods. These > make our bodies too acidic setting us up for all kinds of problems down the > road. Continual use of mucus forming foods eventually plugs up your cells > because the lymph (interstitial fluid around each and every cell in your > body) gets all gummed up with mucus that it cannot efficiently get rid of > due to the sticky gluey nature of mucus. It also can't get rid of it > efficiently because there is no circulatory pump for the lymph system like > there is for the circulatory system. So once your ECM (extra cellular matrix > or interstitial space) gets all gummed up then nutrients cannot get into > the cells and wastes cannot get out of the cells. So now what happens? Well > no nutrients in means lack of oxygen. No oxygen means your cells are now > going to revert to fermentation as a way to derive the energy needed to > continue to survive. This is how cancer starts. All cancers are caused by > cells turning fermentative. They become anaerobic due to lack of oxygen. > Also, because the lymph vessels are all gummed up and not moving your blood > will now attempt to remove the mucus. Now you have tons of this stuff > floating around in your blood veins and plugging them up. This slows down > the blood flow and sets one up for eventual stroke, massive heart failure, > artheriscleosis, etc. > > For a person who eats a raw food diet high in fruits and green leafy > vegetables, gets lots of sun, fresh air, clean pure water and lots of > healthy exercise, mucus is not a problem and never will be. But because of > our chosen lifestyles and choices in diet mucus does more harm than good in > the long run. > > Symtoms that would lead one to do a detox are numerous indeed. Ill health > being the main one. Just wanting to keep ones house, or temple, clean is > another. What one should expect is a lessening ot toxins, excretion of > accumulated wastes and mucus, lessening from or complete recovery of > dis-ease. > > Yes, mucus in and of itself is not harmful. Each and every one of us makes > it harmful by our own choices. > > Anyway, I do hope that I did not bore you to death with my little monolouge. > I really should apologize for not first welcoming your to our group. Welcome > Lisa and I hope you enjoy it here. There is much knowledge and truth here > and I am hoping that you will share some of yours as well. > > Don Q. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 Hi Lisa, No problem. However, you need to come out of your institutionalized thinking and I am not trying to be mean or argue with your either. There is no such thing as little spaces outside of the body where mucus goes. Mucus leaves your cells and goes directly into the ECM or interstitial spaces that exist between each and every cell of your body. Check out your A & P book again and do the research. Every cell in the body is bathed in lymph, which is the interstial fluid. When this gets gummed up the mucus can no longer leave the cells and the cells can no longer get oxygen. Therefore they revert to fermentation to produce their energy. This is producing lactic acid yes, as that is how they now fuel their reactions. Does this change the DNA. Well, most likely if your not getting any oxygen into your cells then your DNA is going to suffer for lack of oxygen and start to go haywire. Does this cause cancer. You dang tooting it can cause cancer. If your cells ATP is using lactic acid to attempt to metabolize the nutrients soup your are feeding it then it is going to do a very poor job as there is not sufficient oxygen to oxidize the garbage manufactured or to turn the nutrient soup into something useful. Lactic Acid fermentation inside the cells is extremely inefficient leaving a lot of garbage behind in its process. Becuase of this inefficiency your cells are only manufacturing garbage that cannot be easily gotten rid of. Therefore the cells get plugged up with more and more garbage and the ECM gets plugged up with more and more garbage and because the ECM is getting plugged up all the other cells around can no longer get enough oxygen to manufacture their ATP so now they revert to lactic acid fermentation as well. When cells do this lose their higher functions. Lose enough oxygen the mitochondria die. The little furnaces inside each cells just dies from lack of oxygen. The cells respiratory system and enzymes can no longer function properly. It uses what energy it can obtain from fermentation to continue to survive through dividing. This it will do with great success because now they are no longer part of a programmed system. They are out of it. On their own. They no longer make hormones, they no longer digest your food, and they no longer have the ability to heal. They just mutate and continue to grow. All cancer is fermentative. All!!! This was discovered by Dr. Otto Warburg. Yes things that are carcinogenic cause cancer (a little redundant I agree with you). Therefore, I am telling you that your choice in diet is carcinogenic. Because you are plugging your body up with mucus and this is causing your cells to revert to fermentation and becoming cancerous. I am not trying to convince you as that is not my intention. Only you can convince yourself of the truth. You wish to believe the half truths promoted by the medical association and pharmaceutical cartels, well that is your right and your choice. I am only giving you some information that you, apparently, don't have. No offense meant and none taken either. We each have to find the truth in everything in life. Never assume that you know the truth. I too have studies genetics, microbiology, anatomy & physiology, biology, chemistry, organic chemisty, biochemistry and thought I knew it all too. There is a wealth of information that exists that is surpressed by the AMA and drug cartels for a very specific purpose. It is not even allowed into the medical and drug cartel controlled colleges and universities because they do not want people to be healthy. I am sorry but that is truth. If they did wish people to be healthy then they would not prescribe toxins in the guise of medicine. They would not carve up bodies unneccesarily nor would they burn them up with radiation. Do not believe what I am telling you because, quite frankly, I may have my head up me arse. On the same note though, don't just blindly accept what you have been fed from the medical and pharmaceutical cartels whilst being a student of "medicine". Peace and light, Don Q. ---- akoonoo herbal remedies Tuesday, January 13, 2004 4:05 AM Re: Herbal Remedies - mucus? Thank you for your reply DonI don't mean to argue, and in no way do I mean anything personal, but I have a few rebuttals to make. Not that I disagree with detoxification, as I know little about this, I just am a little concerned that we are not talking about the same thing, or at least the same meanings of things. ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Ain't no bugs here!Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release 1/8/04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 Thanks Don, Don't worry about me believing the pharmaceutical companies. When chiropractors were denied medical status because they didn't want to prescribe drugs, I realized that the drug companies ruled over MDs. I think it is sad. There are so many bright people going into the MD profession that really do believe the best way to cure someone is to cut something out, or give out a drug. They do things the most invasive way. Chiropractic is a conservative manual medicine that combines not only adjustments, but also nutrition, exercise, and herbal medicine. I'll learn in latter quarters about herbal medicine, but I'm trying my hand at in now with some books and this group. You and I may have some different ideas about what mucus is.... but it's not the terminology that we should be concerned with. A rose by any other name is still a rose. Thank you for enlightening me, Lisa herbal remedies , " Don Quai " <mysticalherbalist> wrote: > Hi Lisa, > > No problem. However, you need to come out of your institutionalized > thinking and I am not trying to be mean or argue with your either. There is > no such thing as little spaces outside of the body where mucus goes. Mucus > leaves your cells and goes directly into the ECM or interstitial spaces that > exist between each and every cell of your body. Check out your A & P book > again and do the research. Every cell in the body is bathed in lymph, which > is the interstial fluid. When this gets gummed up the mucus can no longer > leave the cells and the cells can no longer get oxygen. Therefore they > revert to fermentation to produce their energy. This is producing lactic > acid yes, as that is how they now fuel their reactions. Does this change the > DNA. Well, most likely if your not getting any oxygen into your cells then > your DNA is going to suffer for lack of oxygen and start to go haywire. Does > this cause cancer. You dang tooting it can cause cancer. If your cells ATP > is using lactic acid to attempt to metabolize the nutrients soup your are > feeding it then it is going to do a very poor job as there is not sufficient > oxygen to oxidize the garbage manufactured or to turn the nutrient soup into > something useful. Lactic Acid fermentation inside the cells is extremely > inefficient leaving a lot of garbage behind in its process. Becuase of this > inefficiency your cells are only manufacturing garbage that cannot be easily > gotten rid of. Therefore the cells get plugged up with more and more garbage > and the ECM gets plugged up with more and more garbage and because the ECM > is getting plugged up all the other cells around can no longer get enough > oxygen to manufacture their ATP so now they revert to lactic acid > fermentation as well. When cells do this lose their higher functions. Lose > enough oxygen the mitochondria die. The little furnaces inside each cells > just dies from lack of oxygen. The cells respiratory system and enzymes can > no longer function properly. It uses what energy it can obtain from > fermentation to continue to survive through dividing. This it will do with > great success because now they are no longer part of a programmed system. > They are out of it. On their own. They no longer make hormones, they no > longer digest your food, and they no longer have the ability to heal. They > just mutate and continue to grow. All cancer is fermentative. All!!! This > was discovered by Dr. Otto Warburg. > > Yes things that are carcinogenic cause cancer (a little redundant I agree > with you). Therefore, I am telling you that your choice in diet is > carcinogenic. Because you are plugging your body up with mucus and this is > causing your cells to revert to fermentation and becoming cancerous. > > I am not trying to convince you as that is not my intention. Only you can > convince yourself of the truth. You wish to believe the half truths promoted > by the medical association and pharmaceutical cartels, well that is your > right and your choice. I am only giving you some information that you, > apparently, don't have. No offense meant and none taken either. We each have > to find the truth in everything in life. Never assume that you know the > truth. I too have studies genetics, microbiology, anatomy & physiology, > biology, chemistry, organic chemisty, biochemistry and thought I knew it all > too. There is a wealth of information that exists that is surpressed by the > AMA and drug cartels for a very specific purpose. It is not even allowed > into the medical and drug cartel controlled colleges and universities > because they do not want people to be healthy. I am sorry but that is truth. > If they did wish people to be healthy then they would not prescribe toxins > in the guise of medicine. They would not carve up bodies unneccesarily nor > would they burn them up with radiation. > > Do not believe what I am telling you because, quite frankly, I may have my > head up me arse. On the same note though, don't just blindly accept what you > have been fed from the medical and pharmaceutical cartels whilst being a > student of " medicine " . > > Peace and light, > > Don Q. > > > > > ---- > akoonoo > herbal remedies > Tuesday, January 13, 2004 4:05 AM > Re: Herbal Remedies - mucus? > > > Thank you for your reply Don > > I don't mean to argue, and in no way do I mean anything > personal, but I have a few rebuttals to make. Not that I disagree > with detoxification, as I know little about this, I just am a little > concerned that we are not talking about the same thing, or at > least the same meanings of things. > > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Ain't no bugs here! > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release 1/8/04 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 13, 2004 Report Share Posted January 13, 2004 Hi Lisa, I am sure that we will both enlighten each other as we go along. I appreciate your rebuttal you posted to me. Sometimes we need a little adjustment to keep us going straight, if you will excuse the chiropractic puns. Hehehehe. I agree about the good minds. There are many. But we all have choice in everything we say, do, think and believe. But I believe that we all eventually arrive at truth. Just takes some of a little longer is all. I am still looking and finding it everywhere I look. Didn't know there was so much truth. Actually, I guess I didn't know I was so ignorant and willing to believe all who professed knowledge and wisdom. But then if you don't take the horse out and exercise it yourself you will never know what that horse can do. Glad you are here on the list, Looking forward to sharing ideals, Don Q. - akoonoo herbal remedies Tuesday, January 13, 2004 8:08 AM Re: Herbal Remedies - mucus? Thanks Don,Don't worry about me believing the pharmaceutical companies. When chiropractors were denied medical status because they didn't want to prescribe drugs, I realized that the drug companies ruled over MDs. I think it is sad. There are so many bright people going into the MD profession that really do believe the best way to cure someone is to cut something out, or give out a drug. They do things the most invasive way. Chiropractic is a conservative manual medicine that combines not only adjustments, but also nutrition, exercise, and herbal medicine. I'll learn in latter quarters about herbal medicine, but I'm trying my hand at in now with some books and this group.You and I may have some different ideas about what mucus is.... but it's not the terminology that we should be concerned with. A rose by any other name is still a rose.Thank you for enlightening me,Lisaherbal remedies , "Don Quai" <mysticalherbalist> wrote:> Hi Lisa,> > No problem. However, you need to come out of your institutionalized> thinking and I am not trying to be mean or argue with your either. There is> no such thing as little spaces outside of the body where mucus goes. Mucus> leaves your cells and goes directly into the ECM or interstitial spaces that> exist between each and every cell of your body. Check out your A & P book> again and do the research. Every cell in the body is bathed in lymph, which> is the interstial fluid. When this gets gummed up the mucus can no longer> leave the cells and the cells can no longer get oxygen. Therefore they> revert to fermentation to produce their energy. This is producing lactic> acid yes, as that is how they now fuel their reactions. Does this change the> DNA. Well, most likely if your not getting any oxygen into your cells then> your DNA is going to suffer for lack of oxygen and start to go haywire. Does> this cause cancer. You dang tooting it can cause cancer. If your cells ATP> is using lactic acid to attempt to metabolize the nutrients soup your are> feeding it then it is going to do a very poor job as there is not sufficient> oxygen to oxidize the garbage manufactured or to turn the nutrient soup into> something useful. Lactic Acid fermentation inside the cells is extremely> inefficient leaving a lot of garbage behind in its process. Becuase of this> inefficiency your cells are only manufacturing garbage that cannot be easily> gotten rid of. Therefore the cells get plugged up with more and more garbage> and the ECM gets plugged up with more and more garbage and because the ECM> is getting plugged up all the other cells around can no longer get enough> oxygen to manufacture their ATP so now they revert to lactic acid> fermentation as well. When cells do this lose their higher functions. Lose> enough oxygen the mitochondria die. The little furnaces inside each cells> just dies from lack of oxygen. The cells respiratory system and enzymes can> no longer function properly. It uses what energy it can obtain from> fermentation to continue to survive through dividing. This it will do with> great success because now they are no longer part of a programmed system.> They are out of it. On their own. They no longer make hormones, they no> longer digest your food, and they no longer have the ability to heal. They> just mutate and continue to grow. All cancer is fermentative. All!!! This> was discovered by Dr. Otto Warburg.> > Yes things that are carcinogenic cause cancer (a little redundant I agree> with you). Therefore, I am telling you that your choice in diet is> carcinogenic. Because you are plugging your body up with mucus and this is> causing your cells to revert to fermentation and becoming cancerous.> > I am not trying to convince you as that is not my intention. Only you can> convince yourself of the truth. You wish to believe the half truths promoted> by the medical association and pharmaceutical cartels, well that is your> right and your choice. I am only giving you some information that you,> apparently, don't have. No offense meant and none taken either. We each have> to find the truth in everything in life. Never assume that you know the> truth. I too have studies genetics, microbiology, anatomy & physiology,> biology, chemistry, organic chemisty, biochemistry and thought I knew it all> too. There is a wealth of information that exists that is surpressed by the> AMA and drug cartels for a very specific purpose. It is not even allowed> into the medical and drug cartel controlled colleges and universities> because they do not want people to be healthy. I am sorry but that is truth.> If they did wish people to be healthy then they would not prescribe toxins> in the guise of medicine. They would not carve up bodies unneccesarily nor> would they burn them up with radiation.> > Do not believe what I am telling you because, quite frankly, I may have my> head up me arse. On the same note though, don't just blindly accept what you> have been fed from the medical and pharmaceutical cartels whilst being a> student of "medicine".> > Peace and light,> > Don Q.> > > > > ----> akoonoo> herbal remedies > Tuesday, January 13, 2004 4:05 AM> Re: Herbal Remedies - mucus?> > > Thank you for your reply Don> > I don't mean to argue, and in no way do I mean anything> personal, but I have a few rebuttals to make. Not that I disagree> with detoxification, as I know little about this, I just am a little> concerned that we are not talking about the same thing, or at> least the same meanings of things.> > > > ---> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Ain't no bugs here!> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).> Version: 6.0.560 / Virus Database: 352 - Release 1/8/04Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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