Thoracic Outlet Syndrome

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much for the information and insights on Thoracic Outlet Syndrome. This gives me a new angle to approach things with. Dani

[Guest guest]

zypona2 wrote:

>

> A couple of weeks ago I wrote requesting information on treating

> Thoracic

> Outlet Syndrome with acupuncture and herbs. I'm a TCM student,

> treating a

> woman with this disorder in our clinic. The symptoms are extreme pain

> in her

> neck, L shoulder and arm, tingling & numbness in her L fingers -

> unable to

> abduct L arm beyond 90 degrees without even more extreme pain - any

> pressure

> or massage on affected area is painful - warmth feels soothing -

> numerous

> ashi points along SI & LI channels. Jian Qian is also very sensitive.

> Any

> suggestions?

>

 

I don't know if this has been addressed yet, but of course TOS is a

problem in which muscles are too large in the neck and shoulder which

leads to a nerve impingement syndrome and neuropathologies down the line

into the arm. If it is truly TOS, then we'd probably want to look at

her workout to determine if she's exercising her upper body too much

leading to the excessive muscle growth.

 

If body building isn't part of her lifestyle, I would seek to determine

if she's just carrying all of her stress in the Tai Yang channels

(SI/UB). These channels dominate the landscape of the neck and

shoulders, especially on the back side.

 

The Shang Han Lun is a TCM book that talks about how cold can enter into

the body, initially through the Tai Yang channels in the neck and

shoulders. Once its in, it can go deeper and alter its nature from cold

to heat and then do some other strange things. Each step along the way

has its own formula(s) to treat the pathogen as it transforms from cold

to heat and goes from an excess condition to a deficiency condition.

This book stress herbal formulas.

 

But it also presents a road map of sorts in regards to the manner in

which pathogenic energy from the outside can get inside. I don't

specifically limit my understanding of this meridian roadway to a cold

pathogen as is presented in the book. Rather, I consider it possible for

any pathogen to get into the Tai Yang channels and stagnate there,

giving rise to the neck and shoulder pain associated with tight muscles.

The energy of others who are not welcomed in your patient's space may

also be considered a pathogen, at least for her.

 

I've found that people who have territorial issues tend to develop this

tightness in the back of the neck and shoulders. Think of it as the dog

who protects his territory by raising up the fur on his upper back.

That's the Qi of the Tai Yang channels being activated. The same things

applies to the cat who's territory or personal safety is threatened.

The back arches and the hair stands up. Again, we have an activation of

the Tai Yang channels of the shoulders and in the cat's case, on down

the spine.

 

So, my premise with all of this is that perhaps your patient has someone

or something impinging on her territory. It could be as simple as

something reading over their shoulder when they don't want that

intrusion. Or, it could be a co-worker who is perceived as attempting

to take her job, or otherwise threatening her territory.

 

The treatment principle would be to activate the Qi in the Tai Yang

channel and help the patient get clear on who or what is threatening her

territory which can perhaps provide her the clarity to determine the

appropriate course of action in her personal life.

 

You could also perhaps incorporate a Shang Han Lun formula for neck and

shoulder pain secondary to an invasion of cold into the Tai Yang

channels called Ge Gen Tang. It is warm in nature, so don't use this

formula if your patient shows signs of heat anywhere.

 

Be well.

 

--

Al Stone L.Ac.

<AlStone

http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com

 

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

[Guest guest]

The Shang Han Lun .....book?

What is the fastest method and from who do I order this?

Thanks

diane....the high desert recluse

 

 

 

AI don't know if this has been addressed yet, but of course TOS is a

>problem in which muscles are too large in the neck and shoulder which

>leads to a nerve impingement syndrome and neuropathologies down the line

>into the arm. If it is truly TOS, then we'd probably want to look at

>her workout to determine if she's exercising her upper body too much

>leading to the excessive muscle growth.

>

>If body building isn't part of her lifestyle, I would seek to determine

>if she's just carrying all of her stress in the Tai Yang channels

>(SI/UB). These channels dominate the landscape of the neck and

>shoulders, especially on the back side.

>

>The Shang Han Lun is a TCM book that talks about how cold can enter into

>the body, initially through the Tai Yang channels in the neck and

>shoulders. Once its in, it can go deeper and alter its nature from cold

>to heat and then do some other strange things. Each step along the way

>has its own formula(s) to treat the pathogen as it transforms from cold

>to heat and goes from an excess condition to a deficiency condition.

>This book stress herbal formulas.

>

>But it also presents a road map of sorts in regards to the manner in

>which pathogenic energy from the outside can get inside. I don't

>specifically limit my understanding of this meridian roadway to a cold

>pathogen as is presented in the book. Rather, I consider it possible for

>any pathogen to get into the Tai Yang channels and stagnate there,

>giving rise to the neck and shoulder pain associated with tight muscles.

> The energy of others who are not welcomed in your patient's space may

>also be considered a pathogen, at least for her.

>

>I've found that people who have territorial issues tend to develop this

>tightness in the back of the neck and shoulders. Think of it as the dog

>who protects his territory by raising up the fur on his upper back.

>That's the Qi of the Tai Yang channels being activated. The same things

>applies to the cat who's territory or personal safety is threatened.

>The back arches and the hair stands up. Again, we have an activation of

>the Tai Yang channels of the shoulders and in the cat's case, on down

>the spine.

>

>So, my premise with all of this is that perhaps your patient has someone

>or something impinging on her territory. It could be as simple as

>something reading over their shoulder when they don't want that

>intrusion. Or, it could be a co-worker who is perceived as attempting

>to take her job, or otherwise threatening her territory.

>

>The treatment principle would be to activate the Qi in the Tai Yang

>channel and help the patient get clear on who or what is threatening her

>territory which can perhaps provide her the clarity to determine the

>appropriate course of action in her personal life.

>

>You could also perhaps incorporate a Shang Han Lun formula for neck and

>shoulder pain secondary to an invasion of cold into the Tai Yang

>channels called Ge Gen Tang. It is warm in nature, so don't use this

>formula if your patient shows signs of heat anywhere.

>

>Be well.

>

>--

>Al Stone L.Ac.

><AlStone

>http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com

>

>Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

>

>

>

>

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>

>

[Guest guest]

Diane at Tuckered Tortoise Ranch wrote:

>

> The Shang Han Lun .....book?

> What is the fastest method and from who do I order this?

> Thanks

> diane....the high desert recluse

 

Try searching for it at: http://www.redwingbooks.com. There are many

version of it, and although i get tripped up unmercifully by the

" wiseman-speak " in this version, I think it is the best:

 

Shang Han Lun

by Mitchell, Feng, and Wiseman

Paradigm Publications

ISBN: 0-912111-57-7

 

--

Al Stone L.Ac.

<AlStone

http://www.BeyondWellBeing.com

 

Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

[Guest guest]

Extraordinary Vessel treatments can be a very important first step in

treating Thoracic Outlet - almost all of them have an influence over the

neck area but usually, when you take all the signs and symptoms into

consideration, one or two stand out as most applicable to the case.

 

Daniel

[Guest guest]

> Extraordinary Vessel treatments can be a very important first step

in

> treating Thoracic Outlet - almost all of them have an influence

over the

> neck area but usually, when you take all the signs and symptoms into

> consideration, one or two stand out as most applicable to the case.

 

Note to those new to TCM:

 

The 8 Extraordinary Vessels are in addition to the 12 you're familiar

with - the Liver, Gall Bladder, Heart, Small Intestine, Pericardium,

Triple Heater, Spleen, Stomach, Lungs, Large Intestine, Kidneys, and

Bladder.

 

Actually, you are familiar with 2 of the Extraordinary Vessels - the

Governing Vessel (Yang channel that runs up the middle of the back)

and the Conception Vessel (Yin channel that runs up the middle of the

front of the body).

 

The other Extraordinary Vessels are the Penetrating Vessel, the

Girdle Vessel, the Yin Heel Vessel, the Yang Heel Vessel, the Yin

Linking Vessel, and the Yang Linking Vessel.

 

The Extraordinary Vessels can do some things the 12 cannot. For

example, the Penetrating Vessel can be used to regulate the uterus

and menstruation, can be used in treating digestive system problems,

can be used to treat some Heart imbalances, and can be used to move

Qi and Blood in cases where there is a feeling of stuffiness in the

abdomen or chest.

 

The Yang Linking Vessel can be used to treat the ShaoYang-stage

(Lesser Yang stage) of Cold-Induced Evils. This is the stage where

the Evil is half in the Exterior and half in the Interior. The

person alternates between chills and fever. It also can be used to

treat problems on the sides of the body, including sciatica and pain

in the outside (lateral) side of the neck. It also can be used to

treat some ear problems, like tinnitus and deafness caused by Liver

Fire Rising and other ear problems with a Root of Gall Bladder

imbalance.

 

Victoria

[Guest guest]

Hi, I know this sounds funny but, I don't know hardly anything

about her, so I would ask,to begin with, if she sleeps on her arm

the whole night,(taking into account her age, weight, hows her

wood element, matress tipe, etc...) that sometimes can cause

numbness. And go on from that(I think it's useful to know the

cause, and not just to treat the simptoms). If she said your

treatment helped for months that's an indication too - you're

going the right way probably.

Marcos

 

 

--- sharon muscat <purekarm escreveu: >

Hi everyone- I am a student of TCM in New York. I had a friend

> drive down from Vermont and she was complaining of her arm. She

> has pain and numbness mostly when she wakes in the morning. I

> basically think it's dubbed as thoracic outlet syndrome in

> Western medicine. I was wondering if anybody has had any

> experience with treating this. I basically did points around

> the shoulder (LI 15/SJ 14 ect...) last time she was down and

> she said te treatment helped for months afterwards. I was

> planning on doing a somewhat similiar treatment was just

> wondering if anybody had any new ideas.

> Thanks

>

 

 

_____________________

Copa 2002

- Patrocinador oficial da Copa do Mundo da FIFA 2002

http://br.sports./fifaworldcup/

[Guest guest]

Dear Hamish you wrote:a good mate of mine has some time ago been diagnosed

with Thoracic Outlet Syndrome. he has had surgery to relieve the pressure and

pain which has had either little or no effect. apparently there is nerve damage

as a result of the surgery now also. he needs advice on long term pain

management. any recommendations / advice will be greatly appreciated.

 

Dear Hamish:

 

A clear assessment test for Thoracic Outlet Syndrome is to raise both arms at

45 degrees, bending at the elbow with the hands up (as if being held up) and

to open and close the fists quickly. If there is pain, numbness and tingling

then the issue is truly Thoracic Outlet Syndrome. Be sure to note which fingers

on each hand are experiencing the pain, numbness or tingling.

 

The nerve which is most often involved is the alna, running along the pinkie

side of the hand and arm out of the brachial plexus.

 

Here is a gentle exercise which should help manage pain. Starting at the

head, turn the nose toward the opposite shoulder of the arm you are exercising.

Open the palm of the hand you are exercising at the side of your body with the

palm facing forward, being sure to pull back the pinkie as far as possible,

while slowly lifting the arm, bending at the elbow and keeping the palm facing

forward bring the hand behind the head with the elbow up in the air as high as

you can get it. Bring the palm as far as you can across the back of the body,

and gently " pump " the pinkie back. Gently roll back out of the position,

starting at the hand and finishing by rotating the head back to natural. Repeat

on

the other side.

 

If the pain involves the radial nerve, it will be in the thumb and along the

thumb side of the hand and arm out of the brachial plexus.

 

The exercise for the radial side begins very much like the above. Start at

the head, turn the nose toward the opposite shoulder oft he arm you are

exercising. Open the palm of the hand you are exercising at the side of your

body,

this time with the palm facing backwards. Bring your hand in front of your body

with the thumb up, bending at the elbow, roll the thumb into the body, continue

rolling the thumb until the arm has rolled to the side with the palm facing

out (elbow is also facing out). Gently " pump " the thumb to the palm. Gently

roll back out of the position, starting at the hand and finishing by rotating

the

head back to natural. Repeat on the other side.

 

If the pain involves the medial nerve, it will be in the middle finger and up

the hand and arm out of the brachial plexus.

 

The exercise for the medial center needs a wall. Stand in front of the wall

at arm's length. Place your hand on the wall at shoulder height and turn the

hand so that the fingers point forward. Roll the shoulder down, you will know

you are doing it correctly when you feel the muscle at the lower side and back

of the ribs pull down. Locking out the wrist, turn your head to the opposite

shoulder and gently step forward. Your middle finger will " light " up. Be very

gentle, while you also make sure that you are pulling the shoulder down. Roll

out of the position, starting at the head and stepping back, rolling the fingers

from pointing forward to pointing up and take your hand off the wall. Repeat

on the other side.

 

A really great exercise to keep the chest open and elevate the pain, is to

take a belt or length of rope. Holding at each end (about 3-3 1/2') apart, raise

it above your head, slightly behind your head. Lower the rope behind your

back slowly. When you start to feel the shoulders or chest start to tighten.

Pause at that level. Take a belly breath in, and hold your breath while you pull

the two ends of the belt or rope apart, counting down from 5,4,3,2,1 and exhale

and relax as you lower the belt or rope slowly through the tightness.

Continue to lower the belt slowly until it is at the back of the knees. Pausing

at

each tight area, holding your breath for a 5 count while pulling out on the ends

of the rope (keep your hands in place), then exhale and relax as you slowly

lower through the tight areas.

 

If you have someone who can stretch with you. You can have them place their

hands on your palms (Your hands are at your sides, slightly behind your back at

the hips with your palms out). You press out, and they press in as they are

standing behind you, while they step toward you. They step back and let you

press your hands out against theirs. Each time they step in and press in, they

raise your hands slightly, and then step out and let you press your hands out

against theirs. It should be very much like a slow and gentle rocking movement.

 

To see if you are getting an increased range of motion, prior to starting any

of these stretches or exercises. Bring one arm above the shoulder to the back

and the other arm at the waist to the back and see if you can touch your

finger tips behind your back. If not, press your finger tips into your back so

you

can see how far apart your hands are. Check both sides. Then after do the

exercises and check again. You should be able to get your hands closer each

time,

if you are doing the exercises correctly.

 

Once the exercises and stretches are completed. Take the thumb of one hand

and starting at the outside of the thumb pad at the wrist, press the pad of the

thumb gently, moving up towards the thumb slowly. When pressing, if there is

discomfort, pain, or " lighting " hold that point, but let off the pressure. Take

a belly breath in and as you exhale press into the spot where there was pain.

It should " let go " . If the pain doesn't melt, then repeat until it does,

being sure to work the pressing with the exhale at the same smooth rate.

Continue

to move up the thumb, each time making the same movements a little more

towards the palm side of the thumb pad. Do the same thing on the large pad at

the

wrist below the pinkie, starting on the outside moving up and with each set,

moving towards the palm. Repeating the breathing and pressing at each painful

point. Repeat on the other hand.

 

Good Luck to your friend,

 

Rachel

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

, " hamish_dy "

<hamish.d.youngberry wrote:

>

> Thoracic Outlet Syndrome

>

> a good mate of mine has some time ago been diagnosed with Thoracic

> Outlet Syndrome.

>

> he has had surgery to releive the pressure and pain which has had

> either little or no effect.

>

> apparently there is nerve damage as a result of the surgery now

also.

>

> he needs advice on long term pain management.

>

>

> any recommendations / advice will be greatly appreciated.

>

>

> hamish

>

Hi Hamish,

An holistic Osteopath could have fixed your friend's thoracic outlet

problem and possibly could still help even after surgery.

Regards, Don Moody. nasalb0ne.