Lupus

[Guest guest]

I wonder because of the standard diet we see.......

......it seems to me that the dietary damage starts

before stress becomes the adult issue....

Hugo

 

It's also fair to say that I have yet to see any one presenting with this

type

of condition who did not have severely compromised Spleen issues

also.

 

Either way, treatment must

focus on draining / drying dampness and tonifying the

spleen, right?

Blood ('yin') vacuity often arises from

malnourishment. -Barry

 

Yup....

 

Pi (Spleen) is the foundation of postnatal life.

 

If the Pi function is harmonious there is sufficient Qi, Xue, and Jin Ye

for the needs of the Body. If T & T is

is impaired, then there may be Deficient Qi and Deficient Xue, and

possible acumulation and stagnation of Jin Ye

as Damp and Phlegm. " Zang Fu: The Organ Systems of Traditional

" Jeremy Ross

 

Kit

[Guest guest]

I think that it is all to do with the Blood Xu + Yin Xu + Damp issues,

etc.

etc. etc. irregularities in the Chong Mai (medication(again)) and

childbirth

are all factors here.

 

 

Hi Barry,

 

Do all women who have Lupus have childbirth in their histories?

 

Is this considered some sort of trigger?

 

Kit

[Guest guest]

Hi again,

 

</font><tt>Either way, treatment must<br>

focus on draining / drying dampness and tonifying

the<br>

spleen, right?<br>

Blood ('yin') vacuity often arises from<br>

malnourishment.</tt><font size=3> & nbsp; -Barry<br>

<br>

 

Just a small correction - I wrote the above(Hugo).

 

Also, as far as childbirth being required, I believe

the answer is no; my aunt has never had a child or

been pregnant and she has lupus. I believe that the

childbirth taxes the yin of the body and that the

potential subsequent depletion can lead to something

like lupus.

 

Bye,

Hugo

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Sorry but no - that is not really what I wanted to indicate -

there is no cause & effect here. (I think that in a perfect world

childbirth would probably engender good health!).

It was more the interventions & medications that are usually associated

with childbirth these days, that may need to be looked at carefully in a

patients case history. But as in most auto-immune disorders any

correlation's would be purely speculative!

 

Regards

Barry

 

 

In message <E16wD6C-000239-00, Kit

<kitcurtin writes

> I think that it is all to do with the Blood Xu + Yin Xu + Damp

> issues, etc.

> etc. etc. irregularities in the Chong Mai (medication(again)) and

> childbirth

> are all factors here.

>

>

> Hi Barry,

>

> Do all women who have Lupus have childbirth in their histories?

>

> Is this considered some sort of trigger?

>

> Kit

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I do not know how U will look at it in TCM but I do know that you have to

strengthen

the Adrenals and supply the needed minerals

 

erik aponte <thurneisser wrote:

I was wondering how Lupus is seen in TCM. Also, what

kind of treatment is available. I have a relative

undergoing injections right now for Lupus. Are their

many dangers in treating Lupus in western medicine v.

traditional approaches?

 

E.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/4/03 4:20:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

thurneisser writes:

 

> I was wondering how Lupus is seen in TCM.

 

Lupus is a congenital vacuity of Liver and Kidney, excess heat toxins injure

the ying & blood, Liver Qi stagnation turns to Liver Fire, prolonged disease

injures the Qi and Blood.

In Chinese known as Hong Ban Liang Chuang

SLE Skin, joints, zang-fu organs all involved.

Patterns

Excessive Heat Toxin Type

Yin Vacuity w/ Vacuity Fire

Qi Stagnation, Blood Stasis

Heart Yang Vacuity

Vacuity Spleen and Kidney Yang

The above types related to systemic type.

 

Discoid type Kidney Yin Vacuity.

 

Types of treatment to use acupuncture, herbs, point injection therapy

If you need treatment principle let me know.

Hope this helps

Stan

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hey, stan. Good answer.

 

Usually, when I have seen Lupus, its like a murder mystery, but instead

of " follow the money " being the principle, its " find the heat " .

 

So, you've got a few different potential heat causes here. But there

are many that really don't look hot, i.e. Kidney Yang deficiency,

unless you're talking about a very late stage condition where the yin

and yang are separating.

 

But I'm glad that you brought this up because I just saw a patient last

week who has a diagnosis of lupus and is looking for help with her

muscle and joint pains.

 

I just couldn't find any heat signs or symptoms. However the rest of

her symptoms include sharp pains in the chest (she says its more

superficial than the internal organs, more musculo-skeletal) that come

and go for no apparent reason. Same thing with the forearms more or

less along the san jiao channel, knee pains with swelling. Other than

that, fairly unsymptomatic. Right now, I'm calling it your basic Qi

stagnation. The patient is sensitive emotionally. I found myself being

excessively calm and warm. In other words, I had to pay attention to

myself to avoid insulting or alienating her. I didn't feel relaxed

around her. This is perhaps meaningless, but it usually suggests

emotional sensitivity on her part when I feel so inhibited. Being a

human and all, sometimes I am weird around patients, but she really

doesn't push any of my own buttons. I read this as her stuff.

 

So, what is the treatment principle for the Qi and Blood stagnation

type. Also, formula and points.

 

By the way, I am treating another " Liver Qi Stagnation with heat " lupus

patient, and she is showing improvement. Just 11 years old too! Her

diagnosis was far more clear to me.

 

Thanks.

-al.

 

On Monday, August 4, 2003, at 08:35 AM, KarateStan wrote:

 

> In a message dated 8/4/03 4:20:34 AM Eastern Daylight Time,

> thurneisser writes:

>

>> I was wondering how Lupus is seen in TCM.

>

> Lupus is a congenital vacuity of Liver and Kidney, excess heat toxins

> injure

> the ying & blood, Liver Qi stagnation turns to Liver Fire, prolonged

> disease

> injures the Qi and Blood.

> In Chinese known as Hong Ban Liang Chuang

> SLE Skin, joints, zang-fu organs all involved.

> Patterns

> Excessive Heat Toxin Type

> Yin Vacuity w/ Vacuity Fire

> Qi Stagnation, Blood Stasis

> Heart Yang Vacuity

> Vacuity Spleen and Kidney Yang

> The above types related to systemic type.

>

> Discoid type Kidney Yin Vacuity.

>

> Types of treatment to use acupuncture, herbs, point injection therapy

> If you need treatment principle let me know.

> Hope this helps

> Stan

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/4/03 3:10:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

alstone writes:

 

> So, what is the treatment principle for the Qi and Blood stagnation

> type. Also, formula and points.

>

 

All treatments of Lupus should have LI-11, SP-10, ST-36, LI-4 (major 4)

for Qi Stagnation, Blood Stasis

Treatment principle: Soothe the Liver, regulate Qi, invigorate Blood

Acupuncture plus: Plus Ren-17, BL-17, Liv-3

Herbal formula: Xiao Yao San plus Xue Fu Zhu Tang

 

if you do injection therapy you might add:

B1, 2, 12, YuXing Cao, Chai Hu, One ingredient each time, select 10-12

points, inject 0.3 to 2 ml a course is 15 times. Pick your point for injection

from

this list LI-4, DU-20, Liv-3, Kid-1, GB-34, Sp-9, DU-14, LI-11, Sp-10, BL-17,

SJ-5, P-6, Ren-17, 12.

 

Al,

I believe you are very correct about the Heat

Take out the Yang Xie Qi, unblock Yang channels - BL, DU

 

 

I hope this may help a little.

 

 

Stan

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi, Joelle!

 

I have a low form of lupus. It's a pretty tricky condition. I think

the first thing to do is find out how serious her symptoms/flare-up

is currently.

 

Over the years I have tried a lot of alternative methods -- there is

a group call " healthy divas " (www.healthydivas.com) that have a whole

diet to follow. I have done pretty much what they suggest (it takes

time to change all those habits and get there), but if certains

stressors happen (and many of those, being outside of ourselves,

simply cannot be controlled) a flare-up will happen.

 

There are a lot of theories out there as to what causes this stuff --

no one has anything definitive. TCM (Traditional )

says it has to do with the gut -- so a good diet is essential -- but

then, it's really essential to all of us, huh?

 

There are things to avoid: too much sun; emotional stress (HAH!),

alfalfa, nightshade plants (includes tomatoes ... I ignore that one!)

 

Massage is wonderful for the muscle/joint aches (gentle massage,

nothing like shiatsu ... which would trigger a flare-up!!)

 

There is TONS of stuff out there on the internet -- she needs to get

informed. There are also some lupus groups on . I took leave

of them -- all their symptoms were worse than mine and they kinda

depressed me.

 

If you have some specific questions, feel free to ask.

 

Dede

[Guest guest]

, Shannon Buck <slb725d

wrote:

>

> My father (in his 50's) has been diagnosed with Lupus. I know there

are a few kinds, but I cannot remember there exact names at this tim.

He has the form that is attacking his body. It is very bad sometimes,

and at other times he seems to be doing well. I am just wondering if

anyone on the list has this, or knows someone who does. Any advice

whatsover would be helpful. Our doctors do not seem to know much

about it. Thank you.

>

> Shannon

>

>

>

>

> Send Flowers for Valentine's Day

>

Hi Shannon,and all with lupus,

Lupus is a bit of a mystery, but childbirth and the contraceptive

pill seem to crop up a lot.

In my family I have a lupus female who was diagnosed in 1980 and

given three years prognosis.

I asked around and found that if you stress the body it will fight

for life. We did this with fasting, but it will not suit everybody.

Anyone on permanent medication can not do this and if you did

decide to do it, you need the strenght and support of your family

around you. If you are unlucky enough to have 'know betters'

or 'doubting thomases' around you then don't think of it , you cannot

do this on your own.

The quality of life was excellent for 15 years but the regime was

strict, since then it has very slowly gone down hill, but 27years+ is

a lot better than 3years.

If you, or anyone, is interested contact me and I will write up

a 'what we did sheet'and I will send it out with compliments.

Regards, Don Moody. nasalb0ne.