NEW MEMBER /// Panic attacks

[Guest guest]

Hello,

I'm a new member to the group as of today. I have a question in

hopes someone will be able to answer. I've delt with anxiety/panic

attacks for years and am currently on zoloft. When prescribed three

years ago, I was on 100mg. and have brought myself down to 50mg. I

plan on coming off entirely this year. NOW, my question

is..........why don't the doctors want you to take any thing natural

while you are trying to come off antidepressants? I would think the

transition would be a lot smoother. Is there anyone on here that has

successfully came off antidepressants??? When I read about some of the

side effects about coming off, they can get kinda scarry! But I'm

determined to come all the way off and stay off. Yes, they have helped

me, but I want something that will cure my problem not mask it. Any

advice would be appreciated!

 

Thanks, Tonya

[Guest guest]

All my life had anxiety, depression, and tried all kinds of

medications. It was only after giving up all gluten and hidden gluten

that my life was relieved from the life time of anxiety/depression. I

also added taking a balenced Vit B and lemon juice daily.

 

Also daily take tsp many times a day of the unrefined organic coconut

oil and olive oil. It has been unbelievable to suddenly be relieved

of a life time of this nerve mess.

Zuni

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

, " tonyabeachy "

<thequiltingbea wrote:

>

> Hello,

> I'm a new member to the group as of today. I have a question in

> hopes someone will be able to answer. I've delt with anxiety/panic

> attacks for years and am currently on zoloft. When prescribed three

> years ago, I was on 100mg. and have brought myself down to 50mg. I

> plan on coming off entirely this year. NOW, my question

> is..........why don't the doctors want you to take any thing natural

> while you are trying to come off antidepressants? I would think the

> transition would be a lot smoother. Is there anyone on here that has

> successfully came off antidepressants??? When I read about some of the

> side effects about coming off, they can get kinda scarry! But I'm

> determined to come all the way off and stay off. Yes, they have helped

> me, but I want something that will cure my problem not mask it. Any

> advice would be appreciated!

>

> Thanks, Tonya

>

[Guest guest]

I take Effexor XR & I give you credit for being able to get yourself off Zoloff.

I want to do it my self but until I find a natural alternative there is no way.

I don't like taking it but I have to admit it works.

I think the big reason most Drs don't want you taking Herbs is they have no idea

how it will react.

That and they won't be earning their commissions when you stop taking it.

I'll be keeping a close eye on the responses on this subject.

 

 

 

Take your dying with some seriousness.

However, Laughing on the way to your execution is not generally

understood by less advanced life forms,

 

and they'll call you crazy.

Messiah's Handbook: Reminders for the Advanced Soul

 

Harry

scotchdrnkr

hlambing

 

 

Get your own web address.

Have a HUGE year through Small Business.

 

 

[Guest guest]

I also take Effexor Xr.

And yes it works well.

I also take a heart med that keeps me from taking alot

of herbs. Certain herbs will inter act with the heart

med.

Kandy

 

 

 

--- Harold Lambing <scotchdrnkr wrote:

 

> I take Effexor XR & I give you credit for being able

> to get yourself off Zoloff. I want to do it my self

> but until I find a natural alternative there is no

> way. I don't like taking it but I have to admit it

> works.

> I think the big reason most Drs don't want you

> taking Herbs is they have no idea how it will react.

>

> That and they won't be earning their commissions

> when you stop taking it.

> I'll be keeping a close eye on the responses on this

> subject.

>

>

>

> Take your dying with some seriousness.

> However, Laughing on the way to your

> execution is not generally understood by less

> advanced life forms,

>

> and they'll call you crazy.

> Messiah's Handbook: Reminders for the Advanced Soul

>

> Harry

> scotchdrnkr

> hlambing

>

>

> Get your own web address.

> Have a HUGE year through Small Business.

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

 

 

 

 

______________________________\

____

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(and love to hate): TV's Guilty Pleasures list.

http://tv./collections/265

[Guest guest]

Welcome Tonya to Alternative Answers! It is great that you are seeking ways to

(safely) come off your medication...I, for one, do believe there are wholistic

answers to anxiety/panic. Some doctors write it off as being " all in your

head " ... that's just usually not true. There are complex chemical and hormonal

processes that regulate emotions/fear/passion, etc. and sometimes these

processes get out of balance. On the short term, anxiety is a positive as it

tells us to be alert and on the look out for danger. On the long term,

sometimes, the chemical reactions in the body become on the " stuck open " mode

and keep us at a higher state of alertness, which in turn can lead to more

hyper-vigilence and panic attacks. Reducing stress levels in one's life is

always a good first step in bringing anxiety issues under control. Sometimes,

anxiety forces us to take stock of our lives, causing us to examine the need for

change. I have been better able to control my symptoms after making

some hard choices, but necessary changes in my life. I am taking occasional

Xanax, half tab, .25mg only when feelings of anxiety become beyond my ability to

think rationally. Seems my symptoms are associated with peri-menopause-but this

has yet to be fully determined. Caffeine makes it worse as does stress and the

week before what would have been my " cycle " .... (Hyst in 04 added to my

imbalance so I'm working thru that as well.)

 

It's important to note here that Zoloft is typically prescribed for depression

although anxiety/panic is another reason it is given. Your (traditionally

western) doctor likely has little, if any, education in natural alternatives and

they are quite often reluctant to suggest natural alternatives-and rely heavily

on their training/knowledge, which typically leads to synthetic control of the

symptoms and rarely will you find a (western) doctor who will delve into WHY

you're having anxiety/panic problems, therefore the core issue isn't reached and

you're right, you're on meds to control the symptoms, not cure the problem.

 

Anxiety/Panic are complex issues within the chemistry of the mind and body and

begin for a variety of reasons. It is important to find out the core diagnosis

before attempting ANY long term treatment. Since you have already been on Zoloft

for three years and are working to come off (do it slowly under the supervision

of the doctor who prescribed it for you, to avoid some possible bad

side-effects)...... then you are in a perfect position right now to visit a

Naturopath for answers. Never combine herbals and synthetic medications without

approval of your physician.... if the doctor won't go there, just wait until

you've come completely off before attempting to add something new, natural or

otherwise...always under a physician's supervision... I just don't think it's

wise to go half-baked to the Natural Foods Store and load up on herbs and

supplements that promise to reduce anxiety when you've yet to pin down the core

cause....but while you're still controlling the

symptoms, now is the time to establish a rapport with a Naturopath or Wholistic

physician in your area to go over your history, get a new evaluation and discuss

options. That's the best advice I have to offer at this time-coming from one who

has suffered with anxiety/panic... you don't want to take chances and make

matters worse!

 

Best wishes,

 

Susan

NM

 

tonyabeachy <thequiltingbea wrote:

Hello,

I'm a new member to the group as of today. I have a question in

hopes someone will be able to answer. I've delt with anxiety/panic

attacks for years and am currently on zoloft. When prescribed three

years ago, I was on 100mg. and have brought myself down to 50mg. I

plan on coming off entirely this year. NOW, my question

is..........why don't the doctors want you to take any thing natural

while you are trying to come off antidepressants? I would think the

transition would be a lot smoother. Is there anyone on here that has

successfully came off antidepressants??? When I read about some of the

side effects about coming off, they can get kinda scarry! But I'm

determined to come all the way off and stay off. Yes, they have helped

me, but I want something that will cure my problem not mask it. Any

advice would be appreciated!

 

Thanks, Tonya

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

---hi tonya

sound slike you have been not good ...

well please read this it will add to your education to start with ..

 

i hvae many suggestions for your problem

things like spiritual healing reiki massage hypnotherapy

 

The sin bin -Vested interest Apathy and other unworthy systems

 

As you can see I am not the only one saying this is happening

 

hi my background is research inventions where i am in touch with quite

a few other researchers some of whom have suffered massively dealing

with vested interest factions.

so if you value your health you better get aware of these problems and

the health care systems

this information certainly has the capacity to unnerve you. However if

you do like to know what is going on and are not afraid of the truth

read on, it is very enlightening.

 

Drugs and other treatments

There are a few very important points that I would like to cover on

the subject of drugs and research and treatment At present the system

in England is this

 

,and this principle will apply to other countries as well

 

all treatment recommended by the health care people should be tested

and approved and quite rightly so

 

Obviously it costs vast sums of money to test and approve treatments

because of the possible damage to people and the subsequent litigation

costing millions of pounds.

The point is this Where does this money come from to test and approve

treatments?

 

By far the biggest source is the drug companies.

Do you think drug companies are some charitable institution – in the

main they are there to make profit

What do you think the implications of that statement means

 

So take for example a researcher might go along to his local drug

company and tell them his findings about this treatment he has been

working on which is of outstanding value but needs testing further or

approving, you might think they would be falling over themselves to

know more –right, you could not be more wrong.

 

By and large only treatments which show a profit will even get examined.

 

Because they are in business to make a profit, not for serving the

people.

 

So many of the thousands of therapies which they see as having no

profit potential do not get approved

 

and thus by and large do not get recommended by your local doctor or

hospital despite the fact that some of them do have overwhelming

benefits some which have saved needless operations, needless

amputations, needless pain and trauma, needless kidney failures and

much loss of life.

 

Did you know there are groups of people begging drug companies to look

into certain therapies for their possible benefit but many wont –why

money in the main

 

Your local G.P/ doctor is not a researcher , what does this mean , he

is very taxed with his time that means he cannot do research he finds

it very difficult to keep up with what is goig on

in the main he is told what to prescribe he does not even have the

time often to look at research.

 

At this minute 2004 approx 5000 Beds are being taken up by people who

have had reactions to drugs.

 

Some will die others will be maimed .That is fact

 

So Mrs Jones by and large you will probably only get recommended

treatments where there is profit in them for someone.

Have you heard your local doctor recommend, Massage, Spiritual

healing, Knieisiology Herbs, Light therapy, Colour therapy, Regression

therapy, Osteopathy, Zappers, Magnetic devices, Electrical Frequency

devices.

 

Has he ever mentioned nutrition what you eat how much protein carbo

vitamins etc .

 

All of these have shown their inherent worth with thousands if not

millions of testimonials.

 

 

As you can see this system in its present state is inherently flawed

which is why you are getting recommended what you are

 

that is until the day comes when most of the research and testing is

done by an agency with no vested interests attached and a clear agenda

of being objective.

 

Acting for he people

 

There is clear evidence that some of these drug companies will even

go much further than just dismiss this proposed treatment especially

if it is going to affect their profits.

 

Imagine this 10 000 patients on some drug costing say 500-1000 pounds

each per year

Average time to get well 20 yrs –income in that time –go on work it out

 

Then an invention come s along and hey presto we can get them well in

just 6 weeks at a cost of 200 quid

 

Do you think they will just sit around and go err – what planet are

you on jack?

 

Ever heard of a brilliant doctor with the name of Raymond rife the

gifted scientist and winner of 14 government awards including

scientist of the year award twice.

Rife discovered that some major diseases could be eliminated with

frequencies based on that diseases individual electromagnetic

signature. He uses the same effect, which causes a glass to shatter by

the use of some peoples voices.

 

These distinguished medical doctors who originally confirmed part or

this entire discovery included:

E.C. Rosenow, Sr. (Chief of Bacteriology, 32 yrs., at Mayo Clinic),

Fredrich Koch (Detroit, Brazil), Gaston Naessens (Quebec), Sakae Inoue

(Japan), Georges Mazet (France,), Franz Gerlach (Germany), Niello Mori

and Clara Fonti (Italy), Cameron Gruner (McGill Univ.), T.J. Glover

(Canada), Florence Seibert (V.A. Research Lab,Bay Pines, Fla.), Irene

Diller (Inst. of Cancer Research, Phila, Penn), Eleanor Alex. Jackson

and Virginia Livingston (NJ & San Diego clinics).

 

 

But events started to happen; firstly, arsonists burned the Burnett

Lab in New Jersey, which was validating Rife's work.

Then, someone fatally poisoned Dr. Milbank Johnson, president of the

Southern California American Medical Association. He died just hours

before a scheduled press conference in which he was to announce that

Rife's electronic therapy cured every terminal patient in a study

supervised by the University of Southern California.

Dr. Nemes, who duplicated some of Rife's work just 40 miles from

Rife's lab, was killed in a mysterious fire, which destroyed his lab.

Rife stopped work, but died at Grossmont Hospital from a lethal dose

of Valium. Following Dr. Milbank Johnson's murder, threats, other

incidents followed; 30 doctors once photographed honoring Rife at a

banquet now denied they ever knew him! Dr. Isaac Kendall, Rife's chief

research associate and Dean of Northwestern Medical School, received

$200,000 in " grants " & disappeared. Was this a bribe?

 

Dr. Virginia Livingston-Wheeler in 1947 while studying tumors found

the same organism in all of them. Her findings were published in

August 1948 by the New York Microscopical Society Bullitin. Later in

Dec. 1950 Wheeler had an article published in the American Journal of

Medical Sciences on microbes cultures taken from both human and animal

tumors. On Sept. 10, 1953 The Washington Post reported the discoveries

of Dr. Wheeler and her team from Rutgers-Presbyterian Hospital

Laboratory which were disclosed at the 6 th International Congress of

Microbiology in Rome. They had found conclusive proof of a microbial

cause for cancer.

 

When Dr. Wheeler and her group returned from Rome to

Rutgers-Presbyterian Hospital they found that the funds for their

laboratory were being cut off. The laboratory was closed. This was the

behind- the-scenes work and doings of Dr. Corneluis P. Rhoads, the

head of Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center. The fear of the cancer

industry elite is and was immense. If the truth about the true cause

of cancer becomes known a cheap cure will be found shortly thereafter.

This will kill the cancer goose which lays tens of billions of dollars

worth of eggs a year. Is there nothing these scum will not do for

their god money? No

 

And it does not stop there John Walsh head of the cayce center in

Durham England had a stuttering problem which he cured using the

recommendations of Edgar cayce ,

 

naturally he wanted to share this with the stuttering society so that

others may alleviate their suffering, at a meeting he was going to

deliver a talk telling people of how he did it but just as he was

about to speak , he was stopped and the only reason John says is that

the organizers realized that if this information got out it could mean

the end of their society.

 

Doctors Hertal and Blanc undertook research on the effects of

microwave ovens and declared that foods cooked in this way posed a

greater risk to health than cooking by conventional means, food cooked

in this way seemed to have a cancerous effect on the blood. A gag

order was issued on both of these doctors .DR Hertal stood his ground

and fought the decision and the European court of Human rights issued

an order saying the gag order was contrary to the right of Human

expression and Switzerland was ordered to pay compensation.

 

Personally I have been extensively involved in sharing the Edgar Cayce

information, Spiritual healing and some information on the rife

machine over the Internet on problems like MS Parkinsons, Galucoma,

Myasthenia gravis etc. On the issue of M.S.thousands of groups who had

a site on the Internet were contacted including support groups,

hospitals etc. Major foundations and national societies were contacted

as well.

 

These people have clear mission statements saying for example, for the

treatment, support and research on M.S.The response from thousands of

contacts-only a few even replied with some interest despite numerous

approaches and despite mentioning the clear evidence which the

meridian research institute was getting using the cayce therapies.

The next to try was the Myasthenia gravis association which is located

in Derby England, Cayce gave a couple of readings on this problem,

despite phone calls and letters and e mails including letters to the

chairman not one person came back to me .I tried a few hundred other

M.G. Associations throughout the Internet and only a very few were

interested. The others did not even reply.

 

Cayce on Glaucoma was also tried, again writing, and e mailing to many

National associations and support groups again with very little

interest. Also tried was posting information on the discussion forums

on the Internet, Many were removed, the " Wills eye hospital in the USA

were highly guilty of this. After this I tried Cayce on Parkinson's

again the same procedure was followed I even tried writing and e

mailing to Mary Baker chairman of the Parkinson's society in England,

she did not even reply. National organizations were contacted and

support groups, the results only about 5% showed any interest at all.

 

The conclusion: Clearly there are forces out there that would do

anything to protect their interests

 

, your unnecessary suffering is of no consequence to them at all.

 

There are lots of Charities, organizations, associations, support

groups who are proclaiming all sorts of things, which have a sacred

duty, to give you information, to conduct and fund research, to push

forward their cause, which are failing miserably you the patient. They

are seemingly more interested in maintaining the status quo, keeping

their jobs or are just apathetic. As you can see they are not to be

relied upon if you value your health.

 

Conclusion One must take responsibility for their own wellness, not

hand the problem over to others.

 

I advocate that most research should be done by perhaps government

organizations with the only vested interest in mind of that of the

patient, but that is a long way off.

 

As many NEXUS readers will know, Dr Hulda Clark has helped thousands

of people around the world cure themselves of many ailments and

diseases. Her approach is to remove exposure to solvents and to remove

parasites from the body.

On 20 September, Dr Hulda Clark was arrested in San Diego. She was

subsequently held in a prison in Santa fee, waiting extradition to

Indiana where she is charged with practicing medicine without a

license, a class C felony with a penalty of two to eight years in prison.

 

The patients in her clinic in Mexico most of them terminally ill, but

getting better under Dr Clark's supervision had to be sent home to try

to do the protocols on their own.

Dr Clark was escorted from prison on 4 October and arrived in Indiana

on 6 October at 2.30 am. A hearing was held at 9.00 am and bail was

set at US$10,000. Dr Clark was offered a plea bargain with a fine if

she pleaded guilty, but she pleaded not guilty. The trial will be held

on 2 February 2000.

 

 

Other pioneers some of which we are in great debt too

J.C. Burnett: His " electronic medicine research lab " was burnt to the

ground while he was visiting Rife in 1939, just before the Rife

technology itself was attacked

 

Harry Oldfield: dismissed when he wanted to publish his research

demonstrating the damage done to the human energy field by

chemotherapy treatment

 

Upton, Knuth and Armstrong: inventors of the " homeotron " -forced into

bankruptcy

DR Albert Abrams: inventor of the " Oscilloclast " , a forerunner of the

Rife generator. Slated by the establishment. Denounced as a quack and

a charlatan in 18 consecutive issues of " The Scientific American " .

Died in shame and ignominy

George Lahovsky: Inventor of the " multi-wave oscillator " . Run over by

a car and died 1943.

 

Bill Morre (researcher and author): fled into retreat

 

George De La Warre: Nearly bankrupted by legal proceedings

 

DR Franz Anton Mesmer: used magnets for healing - struck off

 

Ruth Drown: inventor of the " Radio Vision Instrument " and " Homo-vibra

ray instrument " - committed suicide

 

Wilhelm Reich: inventor of " Orgone Energy Accumulator " - died in prison

C.M. Allen: driven insane

 

DR M.K. Jessup: reporter of the infamous " Philadelphia Experiment " -

suicide/murdered

 

DR Max Gerson: Used natural treatment regime to cure cancer, Multiple

Sclerosis and other disease. AMA harassment forced him to close clinic

and re-open in Mexico

 

Harry Hoxsey: (cured cancer using herbs). Mentally and financially

ruined by legal proceedings and AMA harassment. Arrested 157 times in

16 months. Died in suspicious circumstances, possibly murdered

 

Rene Caisse: (also cured cancer-using herbs). The 'Canadian Ministry

of Health and Welfare' had the whole of the records destroyed

immediately after her death in 1978. These records detailed thousands

of cured patients.

 

DR Lawrence Burton: Fraudulently accused of spreading AIDS

contaminated serum forcing the Bahamian government to close it down

under American pressure

 

DR Stanislaw Burzynski: Ordered by FDA to stop development of his

highly effective 'anti-neoplaston' treatment program. Raided and had

all his scientific, medical and personal records seized which were

never returned

 

Gaston Naessens: microbiologist - still alive and working with Rife

type microscope today. Developer of 714X cancer treatment - Prosecuted

for fraud and driven out of France. Prosecuted and threatened again

with life imprisonment in Canada but was acquitted

 

Dr. Andrew C. Ivy: world-renowned medical researcher. Researcher of

" Krebiozen " (harmless chemical compound which was claimed to have

observable, often curative benefits in 70% of cancer cases) suspended

from membership of the Chicago Medical Society, removed from the vice

presidency of the University of Illinois, and had his " resignation "

accepted by both national cancer societies. AMA declared Krebiozen

" worthless " six weeks after he published his research (1951) even

though a properly conducted trial would take 3-5 years, dismissed all

of his conclusions, discredited his research methods and suggested

that his belief in the compound was due to senility.

 

Edward J. McCabe: Health journalist who reported success of oxygen

therapy. Sentenced to 3 years in prison on the pre-text of tax evasion

1999 (and served 2 years).

 

DR William F. Koch: Medical doctor, Professor of chemistry, histology

and physiology. Inventor of " Glyoxylide catalyst " cure for cancer.

Sued by FDA but was acquitted after 600 doctors testified in his

favor. Died of poisoning, 1967.

 

Dr. F.M. Eugene Blass: Developer of " Homozon™ " (the original oxygen

therapy product) - murdered outside his house, same year and month as

DR Koch.

 

DR Basil Earle Wainright: Physicist - inventor of polyatomic

apheuresis oxygen therapy. Imprisoned for 4 years. Claims he survived

six assassination attempts whilst in prison.

 

DR George A. Freibott, IV. President of the American Naturopathic

Association, consultant for International Association for Oxygen

Therapy, US Government approved and internationally accepted expert

witness on oxygen/oxidation therapies. Survived numerous assassination

attempts and several anonymous phone calls threatening him with his life.

 

DR James Boyce: Turned 254 people HIV+ to HIV- using ozone therapy:

Charged with using unproven methods and sentenced to 5 years in

prison. Had his medical license revoked.

 

Ken Thiefault sold ozone generators: Sentenced to 7 years in prison

for making medical claims for ozone generators. His wife was sentenced

to three years.

 

 

In Paul millers book on harry edwards and spiritual healing there are

a number of issues which are mentioned.

 

1.Harry it seems had enormous resistance to his work from certain

quarters people who claimed to be doctors but had it seems there own

hidden agendas. Harry presented a whole host of cases, which were

restored to good health from being proclaimed incurable. Some doctors

were called to account for this. They would evade the issue and give a

variety of reasons for example the patient despite being born with

terrible deformations had a temporary remission which the healer was

not slow to point out seemed to occur just after healing had taken

place. The general medical view was that they would see the patient in

a few more years to check his progress .At the right time harry then

raised the issue again only to be told that too much time had elapsed.

 

2.Another famous expletive was wrongly labelled x-rays and spontaneous

healing. Many times doctors opened up a patient to find a growth only

to find that it was gone. Mistaken diagnosis was another favourite.

 

So you see that there are certain elements within the medical

profession who would gladly not see this work at all to the cost of

millions of peoples suffering. Their motives can only be guessed at.

On the other hand there are many brilliant doctors out there some of

which attended the sanctuary witnessing many healings

 

and many presented their own problems to harry for healing.

 

Oh yes the church, Harry it seems had many dealings with the church

and it seems was very disappointed to see that the church had

 

failed miserably its duty to go forth and heal the sick as the

master Jesus commanded.

 

Harry had invited numerous priests and bishops to his healing

demonstrations where they could witness right in front of their very

eyes some of the fantastic things which were going on .He was

disappointed that the archbishop of Canterbury had declined the

invitation to attend one of his healing demonstrations right under the

cathedral.

 

But it started the seemingly very little known commission to

investigate divine healing. This commission had the archbishop of

Canterbury and York seeking the co-operation of the British medical

association who appointed a number of physicians to examine the

evidence put before them by the man they had jointly denigrated. It

was over two years before the Anglican Church got their act together.

 

They actually asked Harry to submit just six cases for investigation

–six can you imagine that number for a proper investigation. Harry

thought the same and submitted seventy many of which were considered

incurable by their very own doctors. After submitting these and giving

a lengthy address the response was astonishing One of these so called

doctors stood up and claimed they could have been spontaneous healing,

but Harry had pointed out it was the doctors themselves who proclaimed

these people were incurable.

 

Unbelievably no proper scientific examination of the seventy cases was

carried out.

 

Harry was offered a position in the Church with conditions which of

course he could not accept to those who think that the Church would

not sink to these sort of tactics

 

Harry referred to the ---------------- Archbishops commission on survival

 

which was suppressed and never officially published because why

 

the majority report found that the case for survival was proven

 

Medical Mistakes in the USA

This article in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA)

is the best article I have ever seen written in the published

literature documenting the tragedy of the traditional medical

paradigm.If you want to keep updated on issues like this to sign up

for my free

newsletter at mercola.com

 

This information is a follow up of the Institute of Medicine report

which hit the papers in December of 1999,

http://www.mercola.com/1999/dec/5/medical_mistakes.html

 

but the data was hard to reference as it was not in peer-reviewed journal.

 

Now it is published in JAMA which is the most widely circulated

medical periodical in the world.

 

The author is Dr. Barbara Starfield of the Johns Hopkins School of

Hygiene and Public Health and she desribes how the US health care

system may contribute to poor health.

 

ALL THESE ARE DEATHS PER YEAR:

 

12,000 -----unnecessary surgery

7,000 -----medication errors in hospitals

20,000 ----other errors in hospitals

80,000 ----infections in hospitals

106,000 ---non-error, negative effects of drugs

 

These total to 250,000 deaths per year from iatrogenic causes!!

 

What does the word iatrogenic mean?

 

This term is defined as induced in a patient by a physician's

activity, manner, or therapy. Used especially of a complication of

treatment.

Dr. Starfield offers several warnings in interpreting these numbers:

First, most of the data are derived from studies in hospitalized

patients. Second, these estimates are for deaths only and do not

include negative effects that are associated with disability or

discomfort. Third, the estimates of death due to error are lower than

those in the IOM

 

 

.. In any case, 225,000 deaths per year constitutes the third leading

cause of death in the United States, after deaths from heart disease

and cancer. Even if these figures are overestimated, there is a wide

margin between these numbers of deaths and the next leading cause of

death (cerebrovascular disease).

 

Another analysis 11 concluded that between 4% and 18% of consecutive

patients experience negative effects in outpatient settings,with:

116 million extra physician visits

77 million extra prescriptions

17 million emergency department visits

8 million hospitalizations

3 million long-term admissions

199,000 additional deaths

$77 billion in extra costs

 

The high cost of the health care system is considered to be a deficit,

but seems to be tolerated under the assumption that better health

results from more expensive care.

 

However, evidence from a few studies indicates that as many as 20% to

30% of patients receive inappropriate care.

 

An estimated 44,000 to 98,000 among them die each year as a result of

medical errors.2

This might be tolerated if it resulted in better health, but does it?

 

Of 13 countries in a recent comparison,3,4 the United States ranks an

average of 12th (second from the bottom) for 16 available health

indicators.

More

>specifically, the ranking of the US on several indicators was: 13th

(last) for low-birth-weight percentages13th for neonatal mortality and

infant mortality overall 14

 

11th for postneonatal mortality

13th for years of potential life lost (excluding external causes)

11th for life expectancy at 1 year for females, 12th for males

10th for life expectancy at 15 years for females, 12th for males10th

for life expectancy at 40 years for females, 9th for males

7th for life expectancy at 65 years for females, 7th for males

3rd for life expectancy at 80 years for females, 3rd for males

10th for age-adjusted mortality

 

The poor performance of the US was recently confirmed by a World

Health Organization study, which used different data and ranked the

United States as 15th among 25 industrialized countries.

 

There is a perception that the American public " behaves badly " by

smoking,drinking, and perpetrating violence. " However the data does

not support this assertion.

 

>The proportion of females who smoke ranges from 14% in Japan to 41% in

>Denmark; in the United States, it is 24% (fifth best). For males, the

range

>is from 26% in Sweden to 61% in Japan; it is 28% in the United States

(third

>best).

>The US ranks fifth best for alcoholic beverage consumption.

The US has relatively low consumption of animal fats (fifth lowest in men

>aged 55-64 years in 20 industrialized countries) and the third lowest

mean

>cholesterol concentrations among men aged 50 to 70 years among 13

>industrialized countries.

>

>These estimates of death due to error are lower than those in a recent

>Institutes of Medicine report, and if the higher estimates are used, the

>deaths due to iatrogenic causes would range from 230,000 to 284,000.

>

>Even at the lower estimate of 225,000 deaths per year, this

constitutes the

>third leading cause of death in the US, following heart disease and

cancer.

>

>Lack of technology is certainly not a contributing factor to the US's low

>ranking.

>

>Among 29 countries, the United States is second only to Japan in the

>availability of magnetic resonance imaging units and computed tomography

>scanners per million population. 17 Japan, however, ranks highest on

health,

>whereas the US ranks among the lowest. It is possible that the high

use of

>technology in Japan is limited to diagnostic technology not matched

by high

>rates of treatment, whereas in the US, high use of diagnostic

technology may

>be linked to more treatment. Supporting this possibility are data showing

>

that the number of employees per bed (full-time equivalents) in the United

>States is highest among the countries ranked, whereas they are very

low in

>Japan, far lower than can be accounted for by the common practice of

having

>family members rather than hospital staff provide the amenities of

hospital

>care.

>

>Journal American Medical Association Vol 284 July 26, 2000

>

>COMMENT: Folks, this is what they call a " Landmark Article " . Only several

>ones like this are published every year.

 

One of the major reasons it is so

>huge as that it is published in JAMA which is the largest and one of the

>most respected medical journals in the entire world. I did find it most

>curious that the best wire service in the world, Reuter's, did not

pick up

>this article. I have no idea why they let it slip by.

>

>I would encourage you to bookmark this article and review it several

times

>so you can use the statistics to counter the arguments of your

friends and

>relatives who are so enthralled with the traditional medical paradigm.

These

>statistics prove very clearly that the system is just not working. It is

>broken and is in desperate need of repair.

>

>I was previously fond of saying that drugs are the fourth leading

cause of

>death in this country. However, this article makes it quite clear

that the

>more powerful number is that doctors are the third leading cause of

death in

>this country killing nearly a quarter million people a year. The only

more

>common causes are cancer and heart disease. This statistic is likely

to be

>seriously underestimated as much of the coding only describes the

cause of

>organ failure and does not address iatrogenic causes at all.

>

 

>

>Care, not treatment, is the answer. Drugs, surgery and hospitals are

rarely the answer to chronic health problems. Facilitating the

God-given healing capacity that all of us have is the key. Improving

the diet, exercise, and lifestyle are basic. Effective interventions

for the underlying emotional and spiritual wounding behind most

chronic illness are also important clues to maximizing health and

reducing disease.

 

http://www.mercola.com/2002/index.htm

 

Robert Whitaker who wrote the eyeopening book " Mad In America "

ISBN 0 7382 07993

>

 

>

> http://www.madinamerica.com/

>

> This site tells you all about it.

>

& #61656; He started out investigating the successes of drug therapies on

depression, and soon found out that the drug companies own research

showed the opposite! But the companies wont publish it, and are not

all pleased with this book.

& #61656; The book prooves, statisically beyond doubt that drug therapies

are far from helping cure depression they are fueling it, to

alarming proportions. Just think what 400 extra people EVERY DAY in

America means! 400 extra people being disabled and not being able

to work, in most cases EVER.

& #61656;

& #61656; This not only costs the taxpayers the drugs, and the loss of

tax from their now non income, but also the lives of happiness

that these people could and should be enjoying.

>

& #61656; Drug therapy is such that people stay on indefinitely.

& #61656;

& #61656; WHERE AS The majority of people can and could be cured of

depression. You must read this book to understand what is going on.

>

> Drugs are not the answer, they only use is in emergency use and

not LONG TERM. The side effects actually make people's depression

worse in long term.

 

 

 

 

 

phill

 

 

In , " tonyabeachy "

<thequiltingbea wrote:

>

> Hello,

> I'm a new member to the group as of today. I have a question in

> hopes someone will be able to answer. I've delt with anxiety/panic

> attacks for years and am currently on zoloft. When prescribed three

> years ago, I was on 100mg. and have brought myself down to 50mg. I

> plan on coming off entirely this year. NOW, my question

> is..........why don't the doctors want you to take any thing natural

> while you are trying to come off antidepressants? I would think the

> transition would be a lot smoother. Is there anyone on here that has

> successfully came off antidepressants??? When I read about some of the

> side effects about coming off, they can get kinda scarry! But I'm

> determined to come all the way off and stay off. Yes, they have helped

> me, but I want something that will cure my problem not mask it. Any

> advice would be appreciated!

>

> Thanks, Tonya

>

[Guest guest]

> The reason doctors don't want you to mix herbal anti depressants

with prescribed anti depressants is because some herbs mixed with

prescriptions can induce comas, especially, kava and xanax. Kava may

interact in a similar way to Librium, Valium, Dalmane, Paxipam,

Ativan and Restoril. Valerian may also interact with these drugs or

with kava. Do not mix these herbs with each other, with alcohol, or

any other sedating compound including diphenhydramine which is found

in many nighttime pain formulas such as Tylenol PM - this

information was obtained through The People's Pharmacy Guide to Home

and Herbal Remedies.

>

> In , " tonyabeachy "

> <thequiltingbea@> wrote:

> >

> > Hello,

> > I'm a new member to the group as of today. I have a question

in

> > hopes someone will be able to answer. I've delt with

anxiety/panic

> > attacks for years and am currently on zoloft. When prescribed

three

> > years ago, I was on 100mg. and have brought myself down to 50mg.

I

> > plan on coming off entirely this year. NOW, my question

> > is..........why don't the doctors want you to take any thing

natural

> > while you are trying to come off antidepressants? I would think

the

> > transition would be a lot smoother. Is there anyone on here that

has

> > successfully came off antidepressants??? When I read about some

of the

> > side effects about coming off, they can get kinda scarry! But

I'm

> > determined to come all the way off and stay off. Yes, they have

helped

> > me, but I want something that will cure my problem not mask it.

Any

> > advice would be appreciated!

> >

> > Thanks, Tonya

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> DO NOT MIX:

kava and xanax - induces coma

 

st. john's wort and paxil - grogginess, incoherent, nauseated, weak

and so tired unable to get out of bed. St. john's wort may also

affect the metabolism of medications as zyprexa and elavil and

tofranil. Other drugs affected include caffeine, clozaril, haldol,

theo-dur, coumadin and zylflo. Gingkgo, kava, and valerian may also

affect these drugs. Blood levels of the medications may rise,

potentially increasing the risk of reactions. Also, people who take

st. john's wort should stay out of bright light completely as

hypericin becomes toxic to the lens and retina of the eye, increasing

the risk of cataracts of macular degeneration over time. Because

sunglasses don't screen out visible light, they can't protect people

from this danger.

 

ginkgo and coumadin

 

Ma huang and anti depressants

 

glucomannan and diabetes meds as DiaBeta, Diabinese, Dymelor,

Glucotrol, Glynase, Micronase, Orinase, Tolamide, or Tolinase.

Another diabetes pill, Glucophage, may not be absorbed as well if it

is taken before a meal containing a different dietary fiber, guar

gum. This thickener is used in salad dressings, frozen yogurt, and

other low fat foods to improve their texture.

 

>

> In , " tonyabeachy "

> <thequiltingbea@> wrote:

> >

> > Hello,

> > I'm a new member to the group as of today. I have a question

in

> > hopes someone will be able to answer. I've delt with

anxiety/panic

> > attacks for years and am currently on zoloft. When prescribed

three

> > years ago, I was on 100mg. and have brought myself down to 50mg.

I

> > plan on coming off entirely this year. NOW, my question

> > is..........why don't the doctors want you to take any thing

natural

> > while you are trying to come off antidepressants? I would think

the

> > transition would be a lot smoother. Is there anyone on here that

has

> > successfully came off antidepressants??? When I read about some

of the

> > side effects about coming off, they can get kinda scarry! But

I'm

> > determined to come all the way off and stay off. Yes, they have

helped

> > me, but I want something that will cure my problem not mask it.

Any

> > advice would be appreciated!

> >

> > Thanks, Tonya

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Tonya, I take Lexapro, Lamactil and Wellbutrin for depression and

bipolar. I tried to take myself off and use St. John's Wort (cold turkey) and

I

was practically suicidal 30 days later. It was the worst Christmas of my

life!!!!!!!!! It took 2 hellish weeks to feel better after going back on my

meds

and I got a real chewing out for going off. They told me that it is a manic

thought to decide to go off. I Also, I can't drink, because alcohol erases

my meds and it takes days to get back to normal! My family can tell by my

anger and irrationality and screaming fits. .

I sell Herbalife and I can safely take most of their products, except

Schizandra, without problems. I've found that Relax Now (passionflower, jojobe

and

ashwaganda) is a great substitute for Xanax. You can also get Welches'

passionflower juice at the supermarket. If you want to investigate, please

check

out _www.herbalife.com_ (http://www.herbalife.com)

 

Take care of yourself,

with love, Athena

If you would like to talk to someone sometime, please save my email address.

God bless you.

 

 

 

 

************************************** AOL now offers free email to everyone.

Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

That is a lot of meds to try and go off in in two weeks..its not feasible

for safety reasons as you found out. The question is why you wanted to go

off them. Many psych patients get that ideology for one reason or another.

They start to feel good and fell they no longer need them and forget that it

may be because of the meds they are feeling good. I am no strong proponent

of psychotropics in general however I have come to realize there are going

to be patients that will need them for the remainder of their lives. I

would urge though that you may want to reexamine the meds.....four of them

seems like overprescriptions as many shrinks tend to do. Also st Johns wort

is not meant to be used in conjunction with psychotropics. If you want to

examine the alternative worlds and your meds I would strongly suggest

getting a consult with a shrink that is alternatively minded. There are some

web sites for that. An amino acid called gaba ( NOT gabapentin) helped me

get off benzoes ..a very benign chemical but saved me much discomfort.

 

 

regards, medusa

 

 

-

<HeiressArts

 

Tuesday, March 27, 2007 7:34 PM

Re: Re: NEW MEMBER /// Panic attacks

 

 

> Dear Tonya, I take Lexapro, Lamactil and Wellbutrin for depression and

> bipolar. I tried to take myself off and use St. John's Wort (cold turkey)

> and I

> was practically suicidal 30 days later. It was the worst Christmas of my

> life!!!!!!!!! It took 2 hellish weeks to feel better after going back on

> my meds

> and I got a real chewing out for going off. They told me that it is a

> manic

> thought to decide to go off. I Also, I can't drink, because alcohol

> erases

> my meds and it takes days to get back to normal! My family can tell by

> my

> anger and irrationality and screaming fits. .

[Guest guest]

Did you have trouble going down the 50mg?

 

I don't know if you can cut it by 5mg, but I would try 5mg less each

week. Or you might need 2 weeks on before going 5mg lower.

Depending on your reaction to the decrease. Then the last 10mg or 5

mg try skipping a day. If you need one take it, but try skipping a

day, then take one the next day; then try 2 days skipping....

 

We weaned my son off of Celexa. He was on 50mg. Just go slow.

You've been on it this long, a few weeks of weaning is fine.

 

If you have a really difficult time, one thing you can ask your

doctor about is prescribing Prozac. If he will switch you to Prozac,

you can come off it easier (so they say) since it has a longer...half-

life? Anyway, stays in the body longer so that last time when you

stop/last dose, it should have less withdrawal. (but of course, wean

down)

 

Just some quick thoughts,

 

Chris in NC

 

, " tonyabeachy "

<thequiltingbea wrote:

>

> Hello,

> I'm a new member to the group as of today. I have a question in

> hopes someone will be able to answer. I've delt with anxiety/panic

> attacks for years and am currently on zoloft. When prescribed

three

[Guest guest]

Hi Tonya,

 

Congratulations on weaning yourself off!

 

Take your time, play it safe, do it slowly.

Are you familiar with the work of Dr Peter Breggin?

http://breggin.com

He has a book on how to SLOWLY discontinue.

Another great site is http://drugawareness.org

 

Several members have already stressed the danger of

mixing herbal anti-depressants with drugs.

I am normally a big fan of herbs, but in this case

it looks like you'd be better off sticking to plain

nutritional support. With or without the MD.

 

A program of super-nutrition will smooth your path.

Have you ever kept a food diary? Allergic reactions

to food can do the darndest thing to the brain.

 

Mineral balance is imnportant, so is blood sugar

management, essential fatty acids, B vitamins.

 

Look for WHOLE food supplements.

'