Serotonin and Nutrient Availability

[Guest guest]

Serotonin and " Nutrient Availability " JoAnn Guest Feb 27, 2005 18:11 PST

 

A New Idea to Reduce hyperness, anxiety, repetitive

behaviors.

This is a discussion only, by Kd.

http://www.enzymestuff.com/serotonin.htm

 

The Idea

Amino Acid Toxins

Taking Tryptophan Supplements

Additional Notes

References

 

Repetitive behaviors (called 'stimming') and hyperness continues to be a

main concern particularly among children with neurological conditions

such as autism and ADHD spectrum, even with enzymes. Certain enzymes

seem to help reduce stimming/hyperness more than others.

 

There are several reasons this can occur. We see that the " proteases "

tend to increase stimming/hyperness which may be due to:

 

body is adjusting to more food being processed; detox

gut cleansing and healing

yeast/bacteria die-off

magnesium deficiency – adding a soluble source of magnesium (not oxide

or carbonate) or Epsom salts may help. Also sulfate helps with the PST

phenol/detox pathway.

 

A main symptom of magnesium deficiency is hyperness and anxiety. A main

source of magnesium in the diet is whole grains.

 

So, if you remove gluten from the diet, you are also removing a prime

source of magnesium.

 

Since calcium competes with magnesium for uptake, adding in calcium

supplements without sufficient magnesium further drives a magnesium

deficiency.

 

I have been thinking about the stimming/hyperness issue and have a

suggestion for those who are still looking for methods to reduce these

behaviors if necessary.

 

 

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The Idea

 

It may be possible that a particular combination of enzymes and foods

are depressing the levels of an amino acid called tryptophan.

 

Trytophan an essential amino acid that is not made by the body and so

must be acquired by food. It is the precursor that eventually turns into

serotonin...a chemical in the brain which promotes calmness.

 

It might be that the increase in protein breakdown by the protease

enzymes may be affecting the tryptophan/serotonin levels of certain

individuals and this is why the proteases cause hyperness (along with

any of the reasons given above).

 

At first, it seems like digesting more protein should also increase

trytophan levels overall and decrease hyperness, but that is not what we

see.

 

Then after looking into it more, I found that trytophan competes with 5

other amino acids for active transport across the blood brain barrier.

 

So increasing protein overall actually DECREASES trytophan levels

because the tryptophan is outcompeted by the other amino acids.

 

This is supported by several studies which show this is what actually

happens.

 

All meats contain the amino acid tryptophan, but they also contain much

higher amounts of the competing amino acids. Turkey, whole grains,

bananas, organic eggs also contain tryptophan, but much lower amounts of

the other competing amino acids.

 

So foods in this last group have the net effect of increasing tryptophan

levels and promoting more serotonin production.

 

More serotonin would enhance calming. McDougle and colleagues (see The

Serotonin System in Autism below) found exacerbation of behaviors such

as whirling, flapping, pacing, banging and hitting self, rocking, toe

walking and anxiety in more than 50% of adults with autism after

tryptophan depletion.

 

It might also be that the amino acids in the protease enzymes themselves

contribute to this issue along with the amino acids produced by food

digestion.

 

I have ask a couple enzyme supplement vendors what the percentage of

proteases are in their products, and specifically what is the ratio of

the amino acid tryptophan to other amino acids in the enzymes (have not

heard back at this point).

 

If the enzymes also have a low ratio of tryptophan to the other amino

acids, and all those amino acids are added to the total amount of amino

acids from the food, that would further deplete trytophan levels, making

the problem worse.

 

To increase trytophan levels which increases serotonin and thereby

decreases hyperness/stimming, you need to give carbohydrates and not

animal meat (or not as much animal meat), to minimize competition by the

other amino acids.

 

Foods high which promote tryptophan are whole grains, banana, organic

eggs and turkey. Eating a food in complex starch along with the

tryptophan promoting food helps tryptophan get to the brain.

 

Good combinations are cheese on organic grain crackers or a turkey

sandwich. It is no wonder these combinations are popular and help folks

" relax. "

 

By giving proteases and proteins, although we are decreasing the opiate

peptides, we are also decreasing tryptophan levels and hyperness can

results.

 

When people add a broad spectrum product such as Zyme Prime, this

increases the carbohydrates broken down, and then we increase tryptophan

and the serotonin levels, and have the calm Happy Child Effect. This is

probably not the entire reason, but a contributing factor.

 

So, if you are trying to increase tryptophan and want to see if this

reduces the stimming/hyperness, here are some guidelines:

 

1. Give an broad-spectrum enzyme product and carbohydrates with organic

animal meats such as beef, pork, and lamb (tryptophan reducers). Organic

eggs and turkey are okay (tryptophan promoters).

 

2. When giving animal meats besides free-range poultry and a strong

protease product balance it with complex carbs such as whole grains,

banana or turkey.

 

3. Have one of the trytophan promoting foods when you take a strong

protease enzyme product if hyperness/stimming is a problem.

 

Apparently, the serotonin level from food effects a person pretty

rapidly, from immediately upon eating and lasting to two hours.

 

This isn't like using the serotonin re-uptake drugs such as Prozac,

Zoloft, or the tricyclics medications which influence set levels of

tryptophan over a day or so.

 

Food potentially provides 'new' serotonin into the body whereas the

SSRIs " reuse " whatever amount is there.

 

Here is something else that is interesting. I looked into the

high-protein diets and found that " hyperness " " anxiety " or " stressed

out " were conditions that can occur when someone (anyone) goes on a

high-protein, low-carb diet.

 

These 'side-effects' of a high-protein diet occur for the same reasons

given here: high-protein diets decrease serotonin levels and anxiety,

hyperness, or jitters can result.

 

If you don't have a serotonin deficiency to begin with, you may never

notice a slight decrease in levels. The research done in this area finds

some people with autistic spectrum conditions have too little serotonin,

some have too much, and the rest are reasonably balanced.

 

Similar research has found similar results in related conditions. This

idea or theory would apply mostly to the people who are seeing too much

stimming or hyperness, and may be serotonin deficient.

 

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Amino Acid Toxins

 

If amino acids are not digested readily, they convert to toxins in the

gut... where a couple of them become phenols.

 

This conversion to toxin/phenolic compounds may contribute to the phenol

sensitivity condition that some people see with increased protein

digestion.

 

It could be that by taking enzymes to digest meats, the production of

toxins and more phenolic compounds will be reduced because the amino

acids will be absorbed much sooner by the gut before they are converted

to toxins.

 

However at the same time, because more amino acids are absorbed, the

tryptophan level decreases and serotonin levels drop (because the

tryptophan gets " out-competed " by the other amino acids).

 

 

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What about taking tryptophan supplements?

 

Trytophan used to be sold as an individual supplement until about a

decade ago for sleep problems and migraines, etc. Then a batch came into

the US that was contaminated and a bunch of people got really ill and a

few died, so now then it was banned.

 

It was then found that there was a contaminant in the formulation

(called Peak X) and the problem was NOT the tryptophan itself, so

tryptophan may be unbanned soon. [Note: two years after this was

originally written, I heard one can now buy tryptophan once again.March

2004]

 

You can buy a supplement of the next precursor in the line on its way to

becoming serotonin. It is called 5-HTP. The 5-HTP is supposed to work

well and even performed equally to Prozac in one study. It doesn't have

as many side effects that the prescription drugs do but some people do

experience side-effects similar to SSRI medications.

 

The main side effect, however, is listed as stomach irritation which is

not good news for people who already have gastrointestinal problems.

1000 mg of tryptophan = 100 mg of 5-HTP. Doses of 25-50 mg 5-HTP/day are

recommended and maybe up to 100 mg.

 

A little B6 may be needed and taken the same day because it is necessary

for the conversion of 5-HTP to serotonin. Hopefully, adjustments in menu

will help considerably as well.

 

Be very careful about taking 5-HTP with any tricyclic antidepressant or

SSRI (serotonin-reuptake inhibitor, such as Prozac, Zoloft, or Paxil).

Some references say not to take them together at all.

 

Both the SSRIs and tricyclic antidepressants function to increase

serotonin by " reusing " any serotonin present. If you take one of the

SSRIs with 5-HTP, you risk creating too much serotonin, and sometimes

this can be a problem too.

 

Remember how some people say their kids go bonkers on Zoloft? Same

reason – too much serotonin.

 

Recent federal information says SSRIs may cause suidical thought in some

children.

 

The tryptophan or 5-HTP supplements usually won't produce these problems

on their own because the brain self-regulates the natural precursors

such as 5-HTP.

 

Trytophan is also used to make vitamin B3 (niacin). There are other

things the body can use 5-HTP for if it doesn't need any more serotonin.

 

 

You have problems with the prescription medications because there is no

way for the brain to self-regulate it, or divert and " extra " .

 

Also, prescription medications may be affecting other reactions besides

just the serotonin in the brain, and cause some of the more unpleasant

side-effects.

 

SSRI medications, 5-HTP, and tryptophan work similarly on serotonin - to

increase it. But the SSRIs increase it by 'forcing' the serotonin your

body produces to stay in the nerve synapse longer, so your body sees

more serotonin in the nerves than was originally produced.

 

5-HTP and tryptophan help your body produce more serotonin to begin

with. The nerves then see and work with this higher amount.

 

 

This drift toward a high-protein diet further drives the effect of a

decrease in tryptophan and net result of increased hyperness.

 

Diets high in animal meats tend to create more toxins in the gut and

some of those toxins are phenols. So the total phenolic load is

increased. You are also removed a major source of magnesium which

promotes calming. Thus, this correlates with the effect some people see

of going on a GFCF diet and after awhile the person " becomes " reactive

to phenols and " regresses " .

So you start removing phenols, probably more meats are introduced, and

the cycle continues.

 

By adding in enzymes and returning to a more balanced diet that includes

organic whole-grains you are correcting a magneisum deficiency, reducing

the total phenolic load and favoring more serotonin production...all of

these promote calming.

 

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Additional Notes

 

My reading indicates that 5-HTP allows more serotonin to be made and

available to the body for use (if your body is actually not producing

enough). The SSRIs force that serotonin that you do have present to be

used longer. There is no additional 'new' serotonin produced. So even

though both have the final goal of getting more serotonin used in the

body, it is by different mechanisms.

 

Perhaps some people have a faulty glitch in one part of the total

pathway and others have a glitch somewhere else in the pathway. In

autism, the research seems to indicate that some people run serotonin

low and some run serotonin high. If you are too high already, an SSRI or

5-htp wouldn't be helpful (you wouldn't need more).

 

Two other points of interest are:

1. Most of the serotonin is produced and absorbed in the gut! The

implication is that with any gut damage, a lot of the serotonin function

is lost. Healing the gut should help restore this to some extent. See

Michael Gershon's book 'The Second Brain. "

 

2. All the neurotransmitters affect one another to some extent. . . like

a seesaw or pulley system. So a problem with one affects levels of the

others to some extent. Lots of detail on neurotransmitters here:

 

http://www.iwr.com/becalmd/science.html

http://www.iwr.com/becalmd/transmitter.html

_________________

 

JoAnn Guest

mrsjo-

DietaryTi-

www.geocities.com/mrsjoguest/Genes

 

 

 

 

AIM Barleygreen

" Wisdom of the Past, Food of the Future "

 

http://www.geocities.com/mrsjoguest/Diets.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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