Guest guest Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 Dear Group, I have been thinking about this group, it's future, people in general etc. It is always a mix of what is....? What is the most good for the most people? What do I expect of myself and others. What do I expect of the group. How do I seperate out distractions caused by misinformation, ego, personal interests, etc. Where does the balance lie between self and others? Most people " see " the answers through a prism of self. Self interest. Self delusion. Self importance. Self expression. etc. What guidlines act as the containing and modifying factors to protect truths from " selfs " ? When people feel that " self " is someway not getting the attention, recognition, feeding that it feels it should, then I get emails. I receive about 40 to 75 emails a month about the group. After almost 36 months that comes to approximately 1500 - 2500 emails so far. Hey , after ever so may emails my ego says that I get to speak back. I get emails complaining that the person's post didn't get posted to the group. Most think that they are deserving of an answer and I am to show justification of why it wasn't posted. It doesn't make any difference that they know that posting is not automatic and that membership does not mean the right to post for others. They understand about the others but they don't understand when it comes to " self " . Others accuse me of having to narrow of an understanding of what constitutes " alternative medicine " . Others say it is too broad and a lot of things here " not important. If only I would change to suit them. I am accused of being afraid to post things because it might offend people while others accuse me of offending people on purpose. So, far it seems like that I have offended most in one way or another and maybe that is the best testimonial for balance, open mindedness or even fairness. I get emails disparaging my intelligence, my education, my morals, my ethics, my ultimate reason for doing this, etc. I get emails asking about my personal life, my health problems, my thoughts, my private life and interests. I get emails asking me to solve their problems whatever that may be and to do it simply and with an answer that fits their preconceived ideas of what they want to hear. I get emails that want me to diagnose, cure and be their personal assistant all at once. I have posted why I started this group and how this group works many times. I have stated many times how each person who comes to it brings their own ideas of how it should be and how it should work. Nost people who come think that it should be whatever they think it should be. They " see " what needs to be done and I just need to be told to do it. Or they somehow need to know about me and my health problems, my sex life, my cirmustances, my thoughts, etc. I never meant that this group or my efforts were meant to please everyone and I have never tried to court favor with anyone or any segment. If I thought something was bad, I stated it whether it was labeled " alternative " or not. Some people get so offended that they are going to " punish " me in some way. " I will leave " . " I will tell " , etc. Some people become so offended that they threaten to . Others demand in a huff, Un Me!. Of course I don't as I figure that if they had enough functioning brain cells to , that they could probably manage to also. Others go to to " tell on me " Just an aside here. I do not care if you individually are in this group or not. Not withstanding your Mother,.....and this may come as a shocker to you, but it is not about you. I know that it is hard to believe and if you want to tell someone about it may I suggest telling it to your mother as she will probably care. We do not sell products, we do not charge subscription fees so your presence here is nothing more than the pleasure of your company or not. It will not make much difference in the group if you stay or leave, but the choice is certainly up to you. Maybe it will help the ego centered, discontented, restless or irritable amongst us to try and think of the group in a zen sense. It just is. Learn to live with it. Or don't. Don't ask me why. Find your own why. Or why not. Find the " zen " of the group. Find the zen in why you are you and why you need to try and change us, know about us, control us, why your ego is so sensitive, etc.. There is the " group " period. Take from it, learn from it, leave something in it. Love it, hate it. Those are your choices not mine. regards, Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 Hi, Frank. My response to your post was mostly one of laughter. I found your message delightful and enlightening. I have sent you several emails of my own, as you well know, never supposing---duh...now that I think of it---that you might be receiving many hundreds more than just mine. Subsequent to reading your message to the group, I am thinking two things: 1) I am glad I sincerely said at the end of my messages, " Respectfully, Elliot " ! 2) I believe if I were you, (I know---I'M NOT YOU! LOL) I might somehow make my email address unavailable to the group in general. I am thankful to be here. I am learning a great deal, and am thankful to be able to post messages to the board, as well. Thank you for the delightfully enlightening message. I am reminded by your message of something I thought of once about normal, neurotic and psychotic people: Normal people view life as a puzzle, and as they try to solve their particular puzzle, they see that there are others around them trying to solve puzzles of their own. They sometimes pitch in to help others solve their puzzles, and they also receive help from others in solving their own puzzle. Neurotic people view life as a puzzle, and as they try to solve it, they see others around them as parts of their puzzle, and they try to manipulate those other people into where they think they need to fit into their puzzle. Psychotic people are the puzzle. Many thanks for this board, Frank; my apologies for any offense I may have been to you, and I trust I can function better as a member by having read your message tonight. Elliot , " califpacific " <califpacific> wrote: > Dear Group, > > I have been thinking about this group, it's future, people in general > etc. > > It is always a mix of what is....? What is the most good for the most > people? What do I expect of myself and others. What do I expect of > the group. > > How do I seperate out distractions caused by misinformation, ego, > personal interests, etc. > > Where does the balance lie between self and others? Most people " see " > the answers through a prism of self. Self interest. Self delusion. > Self importance. Self expression. etc. What guidlines act as the > containing and modifying factors to protect truths from " selfs " ? > > When people feel that " self " is someway not getting the attention, recognition, feeding that it feels it should, then I get emails. > > I receive about 40 to 75 emails a month about the group. After almost > 36 months that comes to approximately 1500 - 2500 emails so far. > Hey , after ever so may emails my ego says that I get to speak back. > > I get emails complaining that the person's post didn't get posted to > the group. Most think that they are deserving of an answer and I am > to show justification of why it wasn't posted. It doesn't make any > difference that they know that posting is not automatic and that > membership does not mean the right to post for others. They understand > about the others but they don't understand when it comes to " self " . > > Others accuse me of having to narrow of an understanding of what > constitutes " alternative medicine " . Others say it is too broad and a > lot of things here " not important. If only I would change to suit them. > > I am accused of being afraid to post things because it might offend > people while others accuse me of offending people on purpose. So, far > it seems like that I have offended most in one way or another and > maybe that is the best testimonial for balance, open mindedness or > even fairness. > > I get emails disparaging my intelligence, my education, my morals, my > ethics, my ultimate reason for doing this, etc. > > I get emails asking about my personal life, my health problems, my > thoughts, my private life and interests. > > I get emails asking me to solve their problems whatever that may be > and to do it simply and with an answer that fits their preconceived > ideas of what they want to hear. I get emails that want me to > diagnose, cure and be their personal assistant all at once. > > I have posted why I started this group and how this group works many > times. I have stated many times how each person who comes to it > brings their own ideas of how it should be and how it should work. > > Nost people who come think that it should be whatever they think it > should be. They " see " what needs to be done and I just need to be > told to do it. Or they somehow need to know about me and my health > problems, my sex life, my cirmustances, my thoughts, etc. > > I never meant that this group or my efforts were meant to please > everyone and I have never tried to court favor with anyone or any > segment. If I thought something was bad, I stated it whether it was > labeled " alternative " or not. > > > Some people get so offended that they are going to " punish " me in some way. " I will leave " . " I will tell " , etc. Some people become so offended that they threaten to . Others demand in a huff, Un Me!. Of course I don't as I figure that if they had enough functioning brain cells to , > that they could probably manage to also. Others go to > to " tell on me " > > Just an aside here. I do not care if you individually are in this > group or not. Not withstanding your Mother,.....and this may come as > a shocker to you, but it is not about you. I know that it is hard to > believe and if you want to tell someone about it may I suggest > telling it to your mother as she will probably care. > > We do not sell products, we do not charge subscription fees so your > presence here is nothing more than the pleasure of your company or > not. It will not make much difference in the group if you stay or > leave, but the choice is certainly up to you. > > Maybe it will help the ego centered, discontented, restless or irritable amongst us to try and think of the group in a zen sense. It just is. Learn to > live with it. Or don't. Don't ask me why. Find your own why. Or why > not. Find the " zen " of the group. Find the zen in why you are you and > why you need to try and change us, know about us, control us, why your ego is so sensitive, etc.. > > There is the " group " period. Take from it, learn from it, leave > something in it. Love it, hate it. Those are your choices not mine. > > regards, > > Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 Frank, don't worry about the group. The bottom line is that you have told everyone you may or may not pass on info., have been up front with that. I started a group called @ and because it is so small I welcome people's input and have only gotten a few emails, but if a group is large like this one, it becomes difficult to keep people from being overwhelmed by emails. I think you do a good job of preventing this. Kelly califpacific <califpacific wrote: Dear Group, I have been thinking about this group, it's future, people in general etc. It is always a mix of what is....? What is the most good for the most people? What do I expect of myself and others. What do I expect of the group. How do I seperate out distractions caused by misinformation, ego, personal interests, etc. Where does the balance lie between self and others? Most people " see " the answers through a prism of self. Self interest. Self delusion. Self importance. Self expression. etc. What guidlines act as the containing and modifying factors to protect truths from " selfs " ? When people feel that " self " is someway not getting the attention, recognition, feeding that it feels it should, then I get emails. I receive about 40 to 75 emails a month about the group. After almost 36 months that comes to approximately 1500 - 2500 emails so far. Hey , after ever so may emails my ego says that I get to speak back. I get emails complaining that the person's post didn't get posted to the group. Most think that they are deserving of an answer and I am to show justification of why it wasn't posted. It doesn't make any difference that they know that posting is not automatic and that membership does not mean the right to post for others. They understand about the others but they don't understand when it comes to " self " . Others accuse me of having to narrow of an understanding of what constitutes " alternative medicine " . Others say it is too broad and a lot of things here " not important. If only I would change to suit them. I am accused of being afraid to post things because it might offend people while others accuse me of offending people on purpose. So, far it seems like that I have offended most in one way or another and maybe that is the best testimonial for balance, open mindedness or even fairness. I get emails disparaging my intelligence, my education, my morals, my ethics, my ultimate reason for doing this, etc. I get emails asking about my personal life, my health problems, my thoughts, my private life and interests. I get emails asking me to solve their problems whatever that may be and to do it simply and with an answer that fits their preconceived ideas of what they want to hear. I get emails that want me to diagnose, cure and be their personal assistant all at once. I have posted why I started this group and how this group works many times. I have stated many times how each person who comes to it brings their own ideas of how it should be and how it should work. Nost people who come think that it should be whatever they think it should be. They " see " what needs to be done and I just need to be told to do it. Or they somehow need to know about me and my health problems, my sex life, my cirmustances, my thoughts, etc. I never meant that this group or my efforts were meant to please everyone and I have never tried to court favor with anyone or any segment. If I thought something was bad, I stated it whether it was labeled " alternative " or not. Some people get so offended that they are going to " punish " me in some way. " I will leave " . " I will tell " , etc. Some people become so offended that they threaten to . Others demand in a huff, Un Me!. Of course I don't as I figure that if they had enough functioning brain cells to , that they could probably manage to also. Others go to to " tell on me " Just an aside here. I do not care if you individually are in this group or not. Not withstanding your Mother,.....and this may come as a shocker to you, but it is not about you. I know that it is hard to believe and if you want to tell someone about it may I suggest telling it to your mother as she will probably care. We do not sell products, we do not charge subscription fees so your presence here is nothing more than the pleasure of your company or not. It will not make much difference in the group if you stay or leave, but the choice is certainly up to you. Maybe it will help the ego centered, discontented, restless or irritable amongst us to try and think of the group in a zen sense. It just is. Learn to live with it. Or don't. Don't ask me why. Find your own why. Or why not. Find the " zen " of the group. Find the zen in why you are you and why you need to try and change us, know about us, control us, why your ego is so sensitive, etc.. There is the " group " period. Take from it, learn from it, leave something in it. Love it, hate it. Those are your choices not mine. regards, Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 I know a few other groups that could use reading this message. Thanks, SheilaN - " califpacific " <califpacific Saturday, May 15, 2004 4:00 PM Musings on group and people. > Dear Group, > > I have been thinking about this group, it's future, people in general > etc. > > It is always a mix of what is....? What is the most good for the most > people? What do I expect of myself and others. What do I expect of > the group. > > How do I seperate out distractions caused by misinformation, ego, > personal interests, etc. > > Where does the balance lie between self and others? Most people " see " > the answers through a prism of self. Self interest. Self delusion. > Self importance. Self expression. etc. What guidlines act as the > containing and modifying factors to protect truths from " selfs " ? > > When people feel that " self " is someway not getting the attention, recognition, feeding that it feels it should, then I get emails. > > I receive about 40 to 75 emails a month about the group. After almost > 36 months that comes to approximately 1500 - 2500 emails so far. > Hey , after ever so may emails my ego says that I get to speak back. > > I get emails complaining that the person's post didn't get posted to > the group. Most think that they are deserving of an answer and I am > to show justification of why it wasn't posted. It doesn't make any > difference that they know that posting is not automatic and that > membership does not mean the right to post for others. They understand > about the others but they don't understand when it comes to " self " . > > Others accuse me of having to narrow of an understanding of what > constitutes " alternative medicine " . Others say it is too broad and a > lot of things here " not important. If only I would change to suit them. > > I am accused of being afraid to post things because it might offend > people while others accuse me of offending people on purpose. So, far > it seems like that I have offended most in one way or another and > maybe that is the best testimonial for balance, open mindedness or > even fairness. > > I get emails disparaging my intelligence, my education, my morals, my > ethics, my ultimate reason for doing this, etc. > > I get emails asking about my personal life, my health problems, my > thoughts, my private life and interests. > > I get emails asking me to solve their problems whatever that may be > and to do it simply and with an answer that fits their preconceived > ideas of what they want to hear. I get emails that want me to > diagnose, cure and be their personal assistant all at once. > > I have posted why I started this group and how this group works many > times. I have stated many times how each person who comes to it > brings their own ideas of how it should be and how it should work. > > Nost people who come think that it should be whatever they think it > should be. They " see " what needs to be done and I just need to be > told to do it. Or they somehow need to know about me and my health > problems, my sex life, my cirmustances, my thoughts, etc. > > I never meant that this group or my efforts were meant to please > everyone and I have never tried to court favor with anyone or any > segment. If I thought something was bad, I stated it whether it was > labeled " alternative " or not. > > > Some people get so offended that they are going to " punish " me in some way. " I will leave " . " I will tell " , etc. Some people become so offended that they threaten to . Others demand in a huff, Un Me!. Of course I don't as I figure that if they had enough functioning brain cells to , > that they could probably manage to also. Others go to > to " tell on me " > > Just an aside here. I do not care if you individually are in this > group or not. Not withstanding your Mother,.....and this may come as > a shocker to you, but it is not about you. I know that it is hard to > believe and if you want to tell someone about it may I suggest > telling it to your mother as she will probably care. > > We do not sell products, we do not charge subscription fees so your > presence here is nothing more than the pleasure of your company or > not. It will not make much difference in the group if you stay or > leave, but the choice is certainly up to you. > > Maybe it will help the ego centered, discontented, restless or irritable amongst us to try and think of the group in a zen sense. It just is. Learn to > live with it. Or don't. Don't ask me why. Find your own why. Or why > not. Find the " zen " of the group. Find the zen in why you are you and > why you need to try and change us, know about us, control us, why your ego is so sensitive, etc.. > > There is the " group " period. Take from it, learn from it, leave > something in it. Love it, hate it. Those are your choices not mine. > > regards, > > Frank > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 Dear Elliot, I have problems in the area of " self " as bad or worse than most people in the group. It is a constant struggle to not be " self " to the detriment of others. I think that most people (forget the labels ) are prone to think in terms of " if only they would " . " If only my wife, husband, son, mother, friend, aquaintance, etc. would just do what i wanted them to do, then I would be happy " . " If they would only listen to me, they would be happy " . " If only they would think the same as me, then they would really " understand " or " understand what is important " . I think that most of us can make ourselves very unhappy this way because almost no one is going to allow themselves to be changed to please us. So, it becomes a constant struggle to change the people, places and things around us and many others we come into contact with are of course doing the same thing in trying to change us, so they will be happy too. We want to be the in the center and " direct " all the players in our life around us. I think it is a common failing of our society and it's values that we think in those kind of terms. The tendency to do this is not predicated on any real information held or even necessary on the part of the person wanting to change the other. It makes no difference if the person knows what they are talking about or not. Everyone has an opinion on everything. Most with not much real information but whatever, but almost always a strongly held opinion. Usually gathered from " common knowledge " or their own fears and prejudices picked up from the fears and prejudices of the society around them. They will also stand in line all day for the opportunity to tell you what you should do. And about the majority of the time it isn't even something that they are truely willing to do themselves, but they want/know that you should do it. We do not promote independent thinking in our youths. We promote belonging and conforming to the groups ideas of what is or isn't on most subjects. We are mainly a collection of bits and pieces of the various influences, contacts and groups we come into contact with. We do not teach our youth to evaluate information to see it's validity. We do not learn to evaluate. We learn to " parrot " what we have heard from others. When we combine the interests of " self " with the misconceptions of our information systems we get some interesting combinations to say the least. I realize intellectually that I only have the power to change myself and the power to how others affect/not affect me or if I allow or not allow what others say or do to affect me and how I respond in my own mind, etc. I know that intellectually, but it still doesn't satisfy that ego burning inside sometimes. So, when you read the previous message about " self " keep in mind that it includes me. It was also a skillet talkin to a kettle. I am working on it. Frank , " breathedeepnow " <aug20@m...> wrote: > Hi, Frank. > > My response to your post was mostly one of laughter. I found your > message delightful and enlightening. I have sent you several emails > of my own, as you well know, never supposing---duh...now that I think > of it---that you might be receiving many hundreds more than just > mine. > > Subsequent to reading your message to the group, I am thinking two > things: > > 1) I am glad I sincerely said at the end of my > messages, " Respectfully, Elliot " ! > > 2) I believe if I were you, (I know---I'M NOT YOU! LOL) I might > somehow make my email address unavailable to the group in general. > > I am thankful to be here. I am learning a great deal, and am thankful > to be able to post messages to the board, as well. > > Thank you for the delightfully enlightening message. > > I am reminded by your message of something I thought of once about > normal, neurotic and psychotic people: > > Normal people view life as a puzzle, and as they try to solve their > particular puzzle, they see that there are others around them trying > to solve puzzles of their own. They sometimes pitch in to help others > solve their puzzles, and they also receive help from others in > solving their own puzzle. > > Neurotic people view life as a puzzle, and as they try to solve it, > they see others around them as parts of their puzzle, and they try to > manipulate those other people into where they think they need to fit > into their puzzle. > > Psychotic people are the puzzle. > > Many thanks for this board, Frank; my apologies for any offense I may > have been to you, and I trust I can function better as a member by > having read your message tonight. > > Elliot > > , " califpacific " > <califpacific> wrote: > > Dear Group, > > > > I have been thinking about this group, it's future, people in > general > > etc. > > > > It is always a mix of what is....? What is the most good for the > most > > people? What do I expect of myself and others. What do I expect of > > the group. > > > > How do I seperate out distractions caused by misinformation, ego, > > personal interests, etc. > > > > Where does the balance lie between self and others? Most > people " see " > > the answers through a prism of self. Self interest. Self delusion. > > Self importance. Self expression. etc. What guidlines act as the > > containing and modifying factors to protect truths from " selfs " ? > > > > When people feel that " self " is someway not getting the attention, > recognition, feeding that it feels it should, then I get emails. > > > > I receive about 40 to 75 emails a month about the group. After > almost > > 36 months that comes to approximately 1500 - 2500 emails so far. > > Hey , after ever so may emails my ego says that I get to speak back. > > > > I get emails complaining that the person's post didn't get posted > to > > the group. Most think that they are deserving of an answer and I am > > to show justification of why it wasn't posted. It doesn't make any > > difference that they know that posting is not automatic and that > > membership does not mean the right to post for others. They > understand > > about the others but they don't understand when it comes to " self " . > > > > Others accuse me of having to narrow of an understanding of what > > constitutes " alternative medicine " . Others say it is too broad and > a > > lot of things here " not important. If only I would change to suit > them. > > > > I am accused of being afraid to post things because it might offend > > people while others accuse me of offending people on purpose. So, > far > > it seems like that I have offended most in one way or another and > > maybe that is the best testimonial for balance, open mindedness or > > even fairness. > > > > I get emails disparaging my intelligence, my education, my morals, > my > > ethics, my ultimate reason for doing this, etc. > > > > I get emails asking about my personal life, my health problems, my > > thoughts, my private life and interests. > > > > I get emails asking me to solve their problems whatever that may be > > and to do it simply and with an answer that fits their preconceived > > ideas of what they want to hear. I get emails that want me to > > diagnose, cure and be their personal assistant all at once. > > > > I have posted why I started this group and how this group works > many > > times. I have stated many times how each person who comes to it > > brings their own ideas of how it should be and how it should work. > > > > Nost people who come think that it should be whatever they think it > > should be. They " see " what needs to be done and I just need to be > > told to do it. Or they somehow need to know about me and my health > > problems, my sex life, my cirmustances, my thoughts, etc. > > > > I never meant that this group or my efforts were meant to please > > everyone and I have never tried to court favor with anyone or any > > segment. If I thought something was bad, I stated it whether it was > > labeled " alternative " or not. > > > > > > Some people get so offended that they are going to " punish " me in > some way. " I will leave " . " I will tell " , etc. Some people become so > offended that they threaten to . Others demand in a huff, > Un Me!. Of course I don't as I figure that if they had > enough functioning brain cells to , > > that they could probably manage to also. Others go to > > to " tell on me " > > > > Just an aside here. I do not care if you individually are in this > > group or not. Not withstanding your Mother,.....and this may come > as > > a shocker to you, but it is not about you. I know that it is hard > to > > believe and if you want to tell someone about it may I suggest > > telling it to your mother as she will probably care. > > > > We do not sell products, we do not charge subscription fees so your > > presence here is nothing more than the pleasure of your company or > > not. It will not make much difference in the group if you stay or > > leave, but the choice is certainly up to you. > > > > Maybe it will help the ego centered, discontented, restless or > irritable amongst us to try and think of the group in a zen sense. It > just is. Learn to > > live with it. Or don't. Don't ask me why. Find your own why. Or why > > not. Find the " zen " of the group. Find the zen in why you are you > and > > why you need to try and change us, know about us, control us, why > your ego is so sensitive, etc.. > > > > There is the " group " period. Take from it, learn from it, leave > > something in it. Love it, hate it. Those are your choices not mine. > > > > regards, > > > > Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 Hi Frank You said We do not learn to evaluate. We learn to " parrot " what we have heard from others. You got it right on the nose. People do not know how to gather info and evalute to come to a reasonable conclusion, It is called LOGIC> KAthy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 16, 2004 Report Share Posted May 16, 2004 How about this for a response? Due to limited space and other considerations,not all selections can be posted. Perhaps it's in your stars. I recently met an astrologer and had my chart done. It is quite amazing what insights you can gain in this way. Maybe it's just me (Uranus in the 12th house), but I find it fascinating. http://www.astro.com It has an amazing amount of free analysis and charts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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