Dark under eyes

[Guest guest]

Hi guys,

 

Okay, I've had Jamie on TT and Echinacea for 5 days now, and no change. He still shows the dark circles under his eyes. He didn't get a runny nose, although he has had more bowel movement - icky ones, some of them quite runny. He's also been quite tired, stopping to lie down on the couch, and not quite walking so much.

 

He's been refusing to down his DMSO, which I used to give him in his juice in the morning, but now he just empties the cup on his (waterproof) picnic mat. He also doesn't always take his TN anymore - refusing to drink the juice that has it in it.

 

I've added (soya) yoghurt to his diet, which he now eats in the morning (I thought the extra BM being related to the yoghurt). Today was the first time this week he had any bread, so I don't think the eye thing is related to the bread in any way. So unless he's allergic to organic chicken, or sprouted organic rice, I don't know where to look!

 

Any other ideas? Doc, do you have any suggestions?

 

love,

Lisa

- Lisa Belcher

herbal_remedies

Sunday, August 17, 2003 8:34 AM

Dark under eyes

 

Hi guys,

 

My 5-year-old son is showing dark circles under his eyes which are a bit swollen. He sleeps fine - about 12 hours per night - so I doubt it's a lack of sleep. What else could be causing this? His diet is not very good at the moment, consisting of rice with chicken (sprouted and organic) and bread (organic) with tomato ketchup (organic). I know, but it's all he'll eat. I spent loads of money buying and preparing better foods, but he simply won't eat anything else. So I gave up, and let him eat what he wants, hoping he'll get sick of it soon, and move onto something better :-) I also give him TN in his juice, and he takes DMSO. He drinks store bought juice (organic) watered down (distilled water). And that's all. No sweets, no fruit, with only occasional peas as vegetables. About once a week I manage to get him to eat potatoes with carrots and fish. Oh yes, and I give him a Calcium/Magnesium drink each night after dinner.

 

Is he lacking some vital nutrient? Or is this something else?

 

Ms Lisa BelcherSunderland, UK

 

[Guest guest]

My hunch is he is pretty yeasty. I would not give him soy or any fruit

or juice that is not fresh raw or fresh juiced. Store bought juice is

pasteurized. Cow's milk or Goat's milk yogurt would be a better choice.

Buy WHOLE milk and organic type. Not sweetened.

Add a little stevia or fresh fruit to sweeten....dates are great to

sweeten- fresh organic NOT suphured. It may take some time...be patient-

you are doing great!

Will he eat raw foods?

I would let him eat TONS of fresh raw food all day- fruits mostly...some

yogurt, flax, soaked raw nuts- organic....plus the TN in fresh raw

juice- maybe in a yummy smoothie!. LOADS of water...avocados (fruit),

bananas, melons, pineapple, berries, apples, nectarines, raw

carrots....I have a 4 yr old and he eats these things...and nurses...and

is in incredible health- non vaccinations or antibiotics and still

nursing. Can you serve little to no grains? Millet is good instead of

rice.

You could try it. Also sprouted breads- very, very little.

Hope something here helps.

Love,

Elizabeth

 

On Friday, August 22, 2003, at 02:44 PM, Lisa Belcher wrote:

 

> I've added (soya) yoghurt to his diet, which he now eats in the morning

> (I thought the extra BM being related to the yoghurt). Today was the

> first time this week he had any bread, so I don't think the eye thing

> is related to the bread in any way. So unless he's allergic to organic

> chicken, or sprouted organic rice, I don't know where to look!

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Elizabeth :-)

 

Sorry no, I just cannot get him eating any raw foods. I eat quite a few salads, but he won't touch them. He's totally gone off the fruit. He used to eat lots of bananas, but no more. I have tried other fruits, and occasionally he will eat one - but that is really few and far between. He won't eat raw carrot - I love freshly juiced carrot, but he won't even try it.. He won't drink freshly juiced fruits. Doc told me not to give him milk yoghurt (he's allergic to dairy); we tried the goat's yoghurt but he doesn't like it (I didn't either, so I don't blame him LOL). He won't try the sprouted bread - I bought a bread maker and tried lots of times making some, but he just won't touch it.

 

I will keep trying to give him some of this stuff, but so far no go.

 

What about serving millet instead of rice? How would I serve this?

 

love,

Lisa

 

 

 

-

Elizabeth

herbal remedies

Friday, August 22, 2003 9:11 PM

Re: [herbal remedies] Dark under eyes

My hunch is he is pretty yeasty. I would not give him soy or any fruit or juice that is not fresh raw or fresh juiced. Store bought juice is pasteurized. Cow's milk or Goat's milk yogurt would be a better choice. Buy WHOLE milk and organic type. Not sweetened. Add a little stevia or fresh fruit to sweeten....dates are great to sweeten- fresh organic NOT suphured. It may take some time...be patient- you are doing great! Will he eat raw foods?I would let him eat TONS of fresh raw food all day- fruits mostly...some yogurt, flax, soaked raw nuts- organic....plus the TN in fresh raw juice- maybe in a yummy smoothie!. LOADS of water...avocados (fruit), bananas, melons, pineapple, berries, apples, nectarines, raw carrots....I have a 4 yr old and he eats these things...and nurses...and is in incredible health- non vaccinations or antibiotics and still nursing. Can you serve little to no grains? Millet is good instead of rice.You could try it. Also sprouted breads- very, very little.Hope something here helps. Love,ElizabethOn Friday, August 22, 2003, at 02:44 PM, Lisa Belcher wrote:

I've added (soya) yoghurt to his diet, which he now eats in the morning (I thought the extra BM being related to the yoghurt). Today was the first time this week he had any bread, so I don't think the eye thing is related to the bread in any way. So unless he's allergic to organic chicken, or sprouted organic rice, I don't know where to look!

[Guest guest]

This is not a critique of your parenting, just a suggestion: I have heard

Dr. Phil talk about this subject. What he suggested was that you put out a

complete meal, and if he doesn't eat it at supper, you feed the same food,

not the same plate, but the same food. If you had spaghetti with salad and

milk, then the next meal, give him spaghetti, salad and milk, or whichever

item he didn't eat. Also, if it is not meal time, if he didn't eat his

dinner, then he gets hungry 2 hours later, do not feed him a snack. He will

learn that he is to eat at meal time. One of the reasonings that Dr. Phil

gave is that kids need to learn about our family schedules, and if they are

eating and having you prepare things on his schedule, he begins to rule the

household. Growing up that was how my parents did it, getting us to learn

to work within the family schedule, not letting us upset the house too much.

I wouldn't eat beef for a while, and they told me no dessert if I didn't eat

it. If I liked what was for dessert, I ate it, if I didn't, I wouldn't eat

it. Eventually, when I would go for weeks without eating beef, my mom let

me prepare my own meat, but I ended up learning that she prepared a family

meal, and would not be put out for my different habits. I learned to work

within the rules. My brother at one time would not eat tomatoes, so my mom

told him he could not have any other products that he liked with tomatoes in

it unless he ate tomatoes. He loved ketchup, so for a while he couldn't

have any. He learned to like tomatoes. My dad set a good example for us.

Growing up, we were all to eat what was given us. The year after both my

brother and I had graduated from high school, we gathered at Christmas. One

of the foods my mom prepared was a carrot and parsnip dish. My dad was

dishing it up onto his plate, and didn't have any carrots. I pointed this

out to him, and he told me that he didn't like carrots. I was shocked. I

said " What do you mean, you ate them all the time growing up? " He told me

that he ate them to set a good example for us. It worked!! Both my brother

and I have very flexible food tastes, and it makes it really nice and easy

to eat at friends houses. I took in 2 step kids when I got together with my

husband, and they were 10 and 13. They were extremely picky eaters. I am a

very tough person, and I know I cook good, so I told them that they were to

try everything at least once. After about a year, neither one of them was a

picky eater anymore. They did each have foods that they weren't crazy

about, but I used the eating at a friends house argument. I always asked

them to find a way to eat a food, that they could at least eat it as a

guest. I also had them participate in what we had for dinner. I would ask

them to choose a recipe, and I would make it. As they learned about kitchen

safety and the like, they would make the recipe. I know they are a bit

older than your child, but maybe you could find a cookbook that has all main

course dishes, and have him choose one, help you cook it, and then maybe he

would like it better. Over time, you could try and find a dozen or two

recipes he likes, and focus on those.

 

I get bags under my eyes and I found out it is from a lack of vitamin K. It

is found in the following foods: green vegetables (collards, spinach, salad

greens, broccoli), brussel sprouts, cabbage and plant oils. It is a vitamin

that is not available as a supplement in some countries. Even though it is

one of the vitamins that many governments say we need. Love those

beaurocrats who do that!!

 

Thora

 

 

Sill [thesills]

Saturday, August 23, 2003 9:40 AM

herbal remedies

Re: [herbal remedies] Dark under eyes

 

 

From what you have said in your last few posts, I would almost wonder if the

dark under the eyes isn't due to malnutrition. I'm NOT saying anything

about your mothering skills, so please don't take it that way. ;o)

However, I have had doctors tell me that children will eat what they need

and not to worry if they do not eat rounded meals, but I'm pretty sure that

is hogwash. LOL! I cannot see how a child can get proper nutrition if they

only eat a select item or couple of items. If your son likes the flavor of

kool-aid, there are some liquid vitamins that might help. One that comes to

mind is Ocean Essentials. I will post their website below. You can order a

free sample from them. When I did this, I got it in just a couple of days.

At least with the sample you will know if it is something he likes.

Another option is something like Pediasure, but to be honest I don't know if

there are things that are bad in it since we have never used it. Perhaps

someone here can comment on that.

 

www.oceanessentials.com

 

Blessed Be!

MtMoonKitty

[Guest guest]

I wasn't going to respond to this because I didn't think I had any valuable info...I still might not,but after reading about Dr. Phil's ways,I thought...why not.

I was and am a picky eater...I was 9 years old before I was able to eat an entire McDonalds small hamburger.

My parents of coarse tried various ways to entice me..threaten me...etc.

When I was 8 they put me through tests (gi's) and discovered that I have a peptic ulcer.

From there on they knew that certain food "Hurt" my stomach and of coarse was put on a bland food diet.

It helped...and then as I grew up more I was allowed to eat what I wanted...to an extent of coarse. There was the Main meal on the table...along with extras that I might like in case I couldn't eat the Main part,such as a big choice of side dishes...vegetables,pasta's etc.

As for the part of Dr. Phil's eat it now or starve...I totally disaggree...Like me,with an ulcer,I would eat til I was full,and then a little while later I would be hungry again,and I was allowed to eat because my Mom understood the nature of my ulcer.

I grew up just fine...I have no deficits from this diet or rather way of eating.

And also as for trying EVERYTHING at least once...I think that is great for adventerous people who make those decisions for themselves...not for everyone though.

I have never tried...calamari,shark,salmon,octopus,bear,tripe,etc...and i never will...but it didn't hurt me one bit not to have tried these things. And you might not understand your childs reasons for NOT trying certain foods.

In todays world there is no telling what they have learned about things...and the more knowledge they have on animals,etc...the more rights they should have to make these choices for themselves...like I said...to a certain extent.

I hope everyone understands what I am trying to get across here?

Karly

 

 

[Guest guest]

i would just also like to say that i disagree with dr. phil's

suggestions...is this oprah's dr. phil? if so i don't think i've

even seen that guy say something useful...but anyway...the whole idea

of threatening to not give dessert if your kid doesn't eat dinner is

wrong on so many levels...

1. it insinuates that there is always dessert...which is not a good

diet (or that dessert can't be healthy...like an apple)

2. it gives kids the idea that dinner=bad and dessert=good...c'mon

the punishment is having to eat your dinner so you can get the

reward...dessert...just setting kids up for unhealthy eating

3. what's wrong with snacks so long as they like everything in your

house are chosen by you and are healthy. if your child actually can

learn to stop eating when s/he is full instead of overeating...that

is a good thing...and if s/he gets hungry two or three hours later

that could be perfectly normal and should not be stifled or starved

until the next huge meal.

4. dialogue rather than force or threats seems key...find out why

your child doesn't like something...talk about it. and then if it

seems appropriate reward them for trying it...or make it into a game

that you'll both try one new thing a week or something.

 

i'm going to stop there b/c this is already way more than i intended

to write...but it seems like this " old school " way of making kids eat

should be left with all the other " old school " american eating

habbits...if you are bothering to change your diet/health why not

also change your mindset about food and how to teach your kids about

a healthy diet.

luv laura

 

 

 

 

herbal remedies , karly <karly11us> wrote:

> I wasn't going to respond to this because I didn't think I had any

valuable info...I still might not,but after reading about Dr. Phil's

ways,I thought...why not.

> I was and am a picky eater...I was 9 years old before I was able to

eat an entire McDonalds small hamburger.

> My parents of coarse tried various ways to entice me..threaten

me...etc.

> When I was 8 they put me through tests (gi's) and discovered that I

have a peptic ulcer.

> From there on they knew that certain food " Hurt " my stomach and of

coarse was put on a bland food diet.

> It helped...and then as I grew up more I was allowed to eat what I

wanted...to an extent of coarse. There was the Main meal on the

table...along with extras that I might like in case I couldn't eat

the Main part,such as a big choice of side

dishes...vegetables,pasta's etc.

> As for the part of Dr. Phil's eat it now or starve...I totally

disaggree...Like me,with an ulcer,I would eat til I was full,and then

a little while later I would be hungry again,and I was allowed to eat

because my Mom understood the nature of my ulcer.

> I grew up just fine...I have no deficits from this diet or rather

way of eating.

> And also as for trying EVERYTHING at least once...I think that is

great for adventerous people who make those decisions for

themselves...not for everyone though.

> I have never

tried...calamari,shark,salmon,octopus,bear,tripe,etc...and i never

will...but it didn't hurt me one bit not to have tried these things.

And you might not understand your childs reasons for NOT trying

certain foods.

> In todays world there is no telling what they have learned about

things...and the more knowledge they have on animals,etc...the more

rights they should have to make these choices for themselves...like I

said...to a certain extent.

> I hope everyone understands what I am trying to get across here?

> Karly

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

hehehe :-)

 

Hi Laura,

 

Well, Jamie doesn't eat ANY sweets, so using deserts would be totally useless - we don't eat any.

 

Besides this, I actually tried one time to insist he eat his dinner - what a useless act LOL. I just couldn't carry it through - big softie that I am LOL. Jamie has his own definite ideas, and no amount of persuasion or coaxing has been able to change his mind! But, his choices are all healthy choices even though not balanced. I mean, (organic) chicken, rice, yoghurt, bread, are not exactly unhealthy choices of food, not like some other children I hear about. If Jamie does want a snack, it's usually a banana.

 

Anyhow, such threats etc are not my style; I do not agree with them.

 

love,

Lisa

 

-

laura_e25

herbal remedies

Wednesday, September 03, 2003 4:35 PM

[herbal remedies] Re: Dark under eyes

i would just also like to say that i disagree with dr. phil's suggestions...is this oprah's dr. phil? if so i don't think i've even seen that guy say something useful...but anyway...the whole idea of threatening to not give dessert if your kid doesn't eat dinner is wrong on so many levels...1. it insinuates that there is always dessert...which is not a good diet (or that dessert can't be healthy...like an apple)2. it gives kids the idea that dinner=bad and dessert=good...c'mon the punishment is having to eat your dinner so you can get the reward...dessert...just setting kids up for unhealthy eating3. what's wrong with snacks so long as they like everything in your house are chosen by you and are healthy. if your child actually can learn to stop eating when s/he is full instead of overeating...that is a good thing...and if s/he gets hungry two or three hours later that could be perfectly normal and should not be stifled or starved until the next huge meal. 4. dialogue rather than force or threats seems key...find out why your child doesn't like something...talk about it. and then if it seems appropriate reward them for trying it...or make it into a game that you'll both try one new thing a week or something.i'm going to stop there b/c this is already way more than i intended to write...but it seems like this "old school" way of making kids eat should be left with all the other "old school" american eating habbits...if you are bothering to change your diet/health why not also change your mindset about food and how to teach your kids about a healthy diet.luv lauraherbal remedies , karly <karly11us> wrote:> I wasn't going to respond to this because I didn't think I had any valuable info...I still might not,but after reading about Dr. Phil's ways,I thought...why not.> I was and am a picky eater...I was 9 years old before I was able to eat an entire McDonalds small hamburger.> My parents of coarse tried various ways to entice me..threaten me...etc.> When I was 8 they put me through tests (gi's) and discovered that I have a peptic ulcer.> From there on they knew that certain food "Hurt" my stomach and of coarse was put on a bland food diet.> It helped...and then as I grew up more I was allowed to eat what I wanted...to an extent of coarse. There was the Main meal on the table...along with extras that I might like in case I couldn't eat the Main part,such as a big choice of side dishes...vegetables,pasta's etc.> As for the part of Dr. Phil's eat it now or starve...I totally disaggree...Like me,with an ulcer,I would eat til I was full,and then a little while later I would be hungry again,and I was allowed to eat because my Mom understood the nature of my ulcer.> I grew up just fine...I have no deficits from this diet or rather way of eating.> And also as for trying EVERYTHING at least once...I think that is great for adventerous people who make those decisions for themselves...not for everyone though.> I have never tried...calamari,shark,salmon,octopus,bear,tripe,etc...and i never will...but it didn't hurt me one bit not to have tried these things. And you might not understand your childs reasons for NOT trying certain foods.> In todays world there is no telling what they have learned about things...and the more knowledge they have on animals,etc...the more rights they should have to make these choices for themselves...like I said...to a certain extent.> I hope everyone understands what I am trying to get across here? > Karly> > > > >

[Guest guest]

What was described in the original message was a severe eating disorder, and

that is something that needs to be dealt with somehow. These were the foods

that were being eaten:

 

rice

chicken

bread

tomato ketchup

juice

occasional peas

once a week potatoes

once a week carrots

once a week fish

 

This will not sustain health. If this is not dealt with somehow, this child

will never thrive. Lack of necessary nutrients cause serious health

problems. To tell me that my suggestions will cause eating disorders may be

true, but it could not be worse than what is already happening. There was

some mention that " old fashioned " attitudes on eating are not good for us,

but old school habits from 50 years ago did not create the eating disorders

that are rampant in our current society. We are plagued with obesity,

anorexia, bolemia, etc.

 

There is a diffence between forcing a child to eat barf and simply cleaning

up an unfinished meal and moving on with the evening. There is a diffenece

between making a huge scene and making everyone miserable, and simply making

it a non issue. I may have not made that clear in my message, but that was

what I was trying to get across. If he won't eat something, for example a

salad, then the next meal, or 2 hours later or whatever, feed him something

in that food group, maybe some veg soup, salad, veg stew, somthing that has

that food group, that contains the nutrients that he missed. If you don't

want to feed him dessert then that theory could work by allowing him to eat

something he doesn't want to, like veggies, then allow him to have something

that he does want, whether it is bread, ketchup, or whatever. Right now he

already thinks veggies are bad, so if he would eat them if he gets something

he likes, yes he might think veggies are bad, but, nothing will have

changed, except that he got the nutrients that he needs. You will have

gained, he will have gained. Could it create an eating disorder, I don't

know, is it worse than what already exists, no. You may just have to switch

one disorder for another one. But it is important that he gets a balanced

meal. And really, at age 5, most behavior that happens would be consided

terrible, obsessive, demented, if it was applied to an adult, but this is a

5 year old. They act like 5 year olds, and we should not invent disorders

just because they disagree with us.

 

Maybe you could try stepping back from the situation, and try and find a

family you know that has kids that eat everything. I have found that kids

who eat everything have parents that eat everything, and they never have big

battles over food. It becomes a nonissue. Talk to them, and see if you

could invite each other for meals together, and see how they treat the food

issue. Maybe you could let those people deal with your sons eating problems

during one meal, rather than you, and see what they do. It may need to

happen a few times, but see if it works. Sometimes we need to forget about

worrying about creating a problem until we know for sure something works or

not. Will it change overnight, probably not, but if something gets him to

eat it, then it is okay.

 

As far as the dark circles, the leafy green vegetables are somthing that

needs to be fed to him to get rid of them. Somehow, someway, a way needs to

be found to get them into him, along with all other things he needs to

thrive.

 

 

>>Original message<<

Hi guys,

 

My 5-year-old son is showing dark circles under his eyes which are a bit

swollen. He sleeps fine - about 12 hours per night - so I doubt it's a lack

of sleep. What else could be causing this? His diet is not very good at the

moment, consisting of rice with chicken (sprouted and organic) and bread

(organic) with tomato ketchup (organic). I know, but it's all he'll eat. I

spent loads of money buying and preparing better foods, but he simply won't

eat anything else. So I gave up, and let him eat what he wants, hoping he'll

get sick of it soon, and move onto something better :-) I also give him TN

in his juice, and he takes DMSO. He drinks store bought juice (organic)

watered down (distilled water). And that's all. No sweets, no fruit, with

only occasional peas as vegetables. About once a week I manage to get him to

eat potatoes with carrots and fish. Oh yes, and I give him a

Calcium/Magnesium drink each night after dinner.

 

Is he lacking some vital nutrient? Or is this something else?

 

Ms Lisa Belcher

Sunderland, UK