Guest guest Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 In my books the medicos are only good for "emergency" situations. Setting broken bones, Sewing up wounds, Getting the bullets and the steering wheels out. That's it. Emergency type stuff only. For diseases of a chronic nature, I'd never go to a medico under any circumstances. Never. Love, Doc Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.505-772-5889Dr.IanShillington - gayekyc1 herbal remedies Thursday, July 17, 2003 10:14 PM Re: [herbal remedies] Doc/Medicos I am all for Medicos...when it is a serious situation...spinalmenegitis, you probably read my post on this.....BUT, they CAN go toofar, and play God! Can't they see the lives they are ruining, or doestheir pockebooks have them blind-folded??? Thanks, Gaye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 I couldn't tell if you were agreeing or disagreeing...with my comment...Are you referring to spinal menengitis as a chronic disease? Gaye In my books the medicos are only good for "emergency" situations. Setting broken bones, Sewing up wounds, Getting the bullets and the steering wheels out. That's it. Emergency type stuff only. For diseases of a chronic nature, I'd never go to a medico under any circumstances. Never. Love, Doc Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.505-772-5889Dr.IanShillington - gayekyc1 herbal remedies Thursday, July 17, 2003 10:14 PM Re: [herbal remedies] Doc/Medicos I am all for Medicos...when it is a serious situation...spinalmenegitis, you probably read my post on this.....BUT, they CAN go toofar, and play God! Can't they see the lives they are ruining, or doestheir pockebooks have them blind-folded??? Thanks, Gaye Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and to prescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian Shillington Doctor of Naturopathy Dr.IanShillington Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Sorry Gaye, I get a little too playful sometimes. ;o) I was disagreeing (somewhat = not entirely) with you in regards MD's handling Spinal Menengitis or even Cerebral Menengitis. And yes it is a chronic disease "IN ITS EARLY STAGES!!!" Some people get it, and never know they have it, and it corrects on its own. Others do not pay attention to the warning signs, and go past the chronic stage into the "emergency" stage and need immediate help. The only time I would use a Medico or their facilities is if the patient were stupefied, unconscious, or unable to physically be in control of their body. It has then gone way beyond the chronic stage and is in the "emergency" stage. Again, I repeat, this is where the MD has his uses. I hope I didn't offend you. Love, Doc Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.505-772-5889Dr.IanShillington - gayekyc1 herbal remedies Tuesday, July 22, 2003 8:54 AM Re: [herbal remedies] Doc/Medicos I couldn't tell if you were agreeing or disagreeing...with mycomment...Are you referring to spinal menengitis as a chronic disease?Gaye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 From what I understand about Sp. Men...It is a an Infectious Bacterial Disease, that can be rapidly fatal. Some people unknowingly " Harbor " the " germs " in their nose and throat and can pass them on to someone who has low immunities...The people who harbor the germ never have any complications from it whatsoever, they obviously have a high immune system. Now the more unfortunate ones who have low immunities and are exposed to the germ by those who carry it, as per coughing, sneezing, kissing, close contact....etc. ARE affected and within literally hours they can become stupified, semi-conscious, unconscious, very weak and very, very sick, and can die within those first few hours!! I might add the symptoms can be that of a Virus-vomiting, weakness, fever. Stiff neck--- THEN when it is really at the critical stage is when the blue spots (can't think of the technical term for hemmoraging) show up anywhere on the body...like broken cappillaries...the blood has become so thin that it starts to seep into the outer layer of skin...(if it is this particular type of menengitis-with accompanied rash and spots).. This is the stage our Grand Daughter was in when we decided it was more than a virus...BUT still not knowing WHAT it was, my daughter took her to the Pediatric Clinic and was sent immediately to the emergency Room. Had we continued treating it as a virus, she might not be alive today... My son-in-law had a nephew to die with this, he only had the viruslike symptoms. Really without the identifying blue marks, (and perhaps the stiff neck) the only way to diagnose this is a spinal tap...and blood tests...to my knowledge. This can be very scary...and if it happened again, I would be at the hospital before you could say SCAT...Gaye Sorry Gaye, I get a little too playful sometimes. ;o) I was disagreeing (somewhat = not entirely) with you in regards MD's handling Spinal Menengitis or even Cerebral Menengitis. And yes it is a chronic disease "IN ITS EARLY STAGES!!!" Some people get it, and never know they have it, and it corrects on its own. Others do not pay attention to the warning signs, and go past the chronic stage into the "emergency" stage and need immediate help. The only time I would use a Medico or their facilities is if the patient were stupefied, unconscious, or unable to physically be in control of their body. It has then gone way beyond the chronic stage and is in the "emergency" stage. Again, I repeat, this is where the MD has his uses. I hope I didn't offend you. Love, Doc Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.505-772-5889Dr.IanShillington - gayekyc1 herbal remedies Tuesday, July 22, 2003 8:54 AM Re: [herbal remedies] Doc/Medicos I couldn't tell if you were agreeing or disagreeing...with mycomment...Are you referring to spinal menengitis as a chronic disease?Gaye Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and to prescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian Shillington Doctor of Naturopathy Dr.IanShillington Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 Dear Gaye, Your data is correct, though there is a viral form as well called Acute Aseptic which runs a short benign course almost always ending in recovery. In addition to the symtoms you mentioned below which I've italicized, in green/bold, there are these additional symtoms: Moderate or irregular fever, loss of appetite, constipation, intense headache, intolerance to light and sound, contracted pupils, delirium, retraction of head, convulsions, and coma. The key words in your post are the words "immune system". And you said it yourself. Those who have a strong immune system may be carriers but never get it. What does this tell us??? And if you look at the sysptoms you mentioned, and the ones above, what can we learn from this??? Answer: The "Cause" is an immune system debility, not the little bittie bacteria that get in there and "seem" or "appear" to be the cause. These bacteria are around by the quintillions, all over the place. Sure one is more likely to get it by being in close proximity to a carrier. But where did the carrier get them from??? The Solution: 1. Fire up the immune system into overdrive (Echinacea) to handle the immediate threat. 2. Introduce a massive dose of natural antibiotics (garlic = 12 cloves) to knock off the bacteria. & 3. Rebuild the immune system (Astragalus / Total Nutrition) into a super condition so the disease never strikes again. Tooooo simple. Again, I fully agree with you. If some parent were to show up on my doorstep and their kid was in a coma, I'd drive 'em to the hospital myself. I'm not equipped to handle this condition when it is in its "emergency" phase. But I have to ask, "What were the parents doing, when the kid was complaining of a severe headache and/or had a fever???", and when the disease was in its chronic stage. Ultimately, if we all had a strong immune system (as we all should), the disease would never exist at all. Love, Doc Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.505-772-5889Dr.IanShillington - gayekyc1 herbal remedies Tuesday, July 22, 2003 1:17 PM Re: [herbal remedies] Doc/Medicos >From what I understand about Sp. Men...It is a an Infectious BacterialDisease, that can be rapidly fatal. Some people unknowingly "Harbor" the"germs" in their nose and throat and can pass them on to someone who haslow immunities...The people who harbor the germ never have anycomplications from it whatsoever, they obviously have a high immunesystem. Now the more unfortunate ones who have low immunities and areexposed to the germ by those who carry it, as per coughing, sneezing,kissing, close contact....etc. ARE affected and within literally hoursthey can become stupified, semi-conscious, unconscious, very weak andvery, very sick, and can die within those first few hours!!I might add the symptoms can be that of a Virus-vomiting, weakness,fever. Stiff neck--- THEN when it is really at the critical stage iswhen the blue spots (can't think of the technical term for hemmoraging)show up anywhere on the body...like broken cappillaries...the blood hasbecome so thin that it starts to seep into the outer layer of skin...(ifit is this particular type of menengitis-with accompanied rash andspots)..This is the stage our Grand Daughter was in when we decided it was morethan a virus...BUT still not knowing WHAT it was, my daughter took herto the Pediatric Clinic and was sent immediately to the emergency Room. Had we continued treating it as a virus, she might not be alive today...My son-in-law had a nephew to die with this, he only had the viruslikesymptoms. Really without the identifying blue marks, (and perhaps the stiff neck)the only way to diagnose this is a spinal tap...and blood tests...to myknowledge. This can be very scary...and if it happened again, I would be at thehospital before you could say SCAT...Gaye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 In a perfect world, we would all do the right thngs, eat the right foods, take the proper herbs, and natural remedies....But as you know this Isn't a perfect world. At the time we didn't know the signs and symptoms...We didn't know that the chicken pox she had 2-3 weeks prior to this could make her more susceptible to it...Chicken pox does lower the immune system. But we didn't know this at the time.....after all she had the "Immunizations"...lol. We weren't even expecting the chicken pox, much less "Spinal Menengitis!!! And at the very least....we didn't fathom her coming into contact with somebody who was carrying this germ. She and we were very blessed!! She had a vorocious appetite just a few hours before exibiting the symptoms. She ate a lot of fruit, strawberries, etc. Yes she had excruciating headaches, eyes hurt, sensitive to light and sound...delerium, from swelling of the brain.....she never had convulsions, but was comatose for about 24 hours...but all of this was AFTER the vomiting, fever, weakness, headache, body aches and pains, and the blue spot out break. And then you say? But I have to ask, "What were the parents doing, when the kid was complaining of a severe headache and/or had a fever???", and when the disease was in its chronic stage. As a matter f fact I stayed up with her all night, I thought she had overeaten, and was sick at her stomach. Or had a virus....not too uncommon in public school. This went on about 12 hrs...then she started getting a fever, then weak (naturally) from vomiting fever)...then she started saying her head hurt, and was aching all over....still could be flu, virus, etc..........then she started breaking out in the blue spots... all of this in about a 2 hour period...By that time it wasn't "Chronic" anymore...The SEVERE headache didn't come until about 36 hours after the 1st symptoms...she was already in the hospital... And before AND during this 2 hours, I gave her hot and cold baths, she drank lots of fluids. I believe this delayed the more serious symptoms... And as for the question Where did "They" get the germ from??? Your guess is as good as mine...It just Exists... Toxins, poisons, allergens, bacteria, viruses, exist. For all we know, we the very people who love her more than our own life could have transferred this germ....Gaye Dear Gaye, Your data is correct, though there is a viral form as well called Acute Aseptic which runs a short benign course almost always ending in recovery. In addition to the symtoms you mentioned below which I've italicized, in green/bold, there are these additional symtoms: Moderate or irregular fever, loss of appetite, constipation, intense headache, intolerance to light and sound, contracted pupils, delirium, retraction of head, convulsions, and coma. The key words in your post are the words "immune system". And you said it yourself. Those who have a strong immune system may be carriers but never get it. What does this tell us??? And if you look at the sysptoms you mentioned, and the ones above, what can we learn from this??? Answer: The "Cause" is an immune system debility, not the little bittie bacteria that get in there and "seem" or "appear" to be the cause. These bacteria are around by the quintillions, all over the place. Sure one is more likely to get it by being in close proximity to a carrier. But where did the carrier get them from??? The Solution: 1. Fire up the immune system into overdrive (Echinacea) to handle the immediate threat. 2. Introduce a massive dose of natural antibiotics (garlic = 12 cloves) to knock off the bacteria. & 3. Rebuild the immune system (Astragalus / Total Nutrition) into a super condition so the disease never strikes again. Tooooo simple. Again, I fully agree with you. If some parent were to show up on my doorstep and their kid was in a coma, I'd drive 'em to the hospital myself. I'm not equipped to handle this condition when it is in its "emergency" phase. But I have to ask, "What were the parents doing, when the kid was complaining of a severe headache and/or had a fever???", and when the disease was in its chronic stage. Ultimately, if we all had a strong immune system (as we all should), the disease would never exist at all. Love, Doc Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.505-772-5889Dr.IanShillington - gayekyc1 herbal remedies Tuesday, July 22, 2003 1:17 PM Re: [herbal remedies] Doc/Medicos >From what I understand about Sp. Men...It is a an Infectious BacterialDisease, that can be rapidly fatal. Some people unknowingly "Harbor" the"germs" in their nose and throat and can pass them on to someone who haslow immunities...The people who harbor the germ never have anycomplications from it whatsoever, they obviously have a high immunesystem. Now the more unfortunate ones who have low immunities and areexposed to the germ by those who carry it, as per coughing, sneezing,kissing, close contact....etc. ARE affected and within literally hoursthey can become stupified, semi-conscious, unconscious, very weak andvery, very sick, and can die within those first few hours!!I might add the symptoms can be that of a Virus-vomiting, weakness,fever. Stiff neck--- THEN when it is really at the critical stage iswhen the blue spots (can't think of the technical term for hemmoraging)show up anywhere on the body...like broken cappillaries...the blood hasbecome so thin that it starts to seep into the outer layer of skin...(ifit is this particular type of menengitis-with accompanied rash andspots)..This is the stage our Grand Daughter was in when we decided it was morethan a virus...BUT still not knowing WHAT it was, my daughter took herto the Pediatric Clinic and was sent immediately to the emergency Room. Had we continued treating it as a virus, she might not be alive today...My son-in-law had a nephew to die with this, he only had the viruslikesymptoms. Really without the identifying blue marks, (and perhaps the stiff neck)the only way to diagnose this is a spinal tap...and blood tests...to myknowledge. This can be very scary...and if it happened again, I would be at thehospital before you could say SCAT...Gaye Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and to prescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian Shillington Doctor of Naturopathy Dr.IanShillington Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 Dear Gaye, No one is saying you don't love your child, and I'm certainly not interested in getting into a pissing contest with you on this whole thing. My main concerns with your posts are the "easy" acceptence of allopathic approaches that you seem to be promoting on this all Naturopathic List. You even said it yourself in a previous post that at the first sign of these symptoms you'd be heading for the MD again. My main point which I obviously failed to communicate (or you just decided to neglect) was that these symptoms are indicative of a lowered immune system. Had you taken the immediate steps to fire up her immune system, a full blown attack would never have happened, and the condition would have corrected itself. By giving your child the hot and cold baths and plenty of fluids, you very well may have saved her life. But there are other Naturopathic remedies that could have been used that to date, you haven't mentioned, such as the garlic and the echinacea, and a hot bath with 6 cups of ginger tea or Yarrow tea, etc. etc. etc. I'm not trying to make you wrong, I'm trying to educate you, but if you feel you know it all, then I'm wasting my time and yours. Regardless of whether a person had meningitis or just some other lowered immune system symptom, the natural handling would be the same, and if caught in its chronic stage it could be handled naturally. In your post following the one below, you say, "I was told by a few people that Aspirin came from white oak bark, (likethe ones in health food stores) I thought they were lying...I was just sure over the counter aspirin came from a chemical source...Now I feel safer taking it when the need arises. Thanks, Gaye" and this just shows your ignorance in the area. There is nothing right about taking aspirin under any circumstances. Nothing! See Don Eitner's post (or was that actually Jana) after your post, explaining the differences. There is nothing wrong with being ignorant, just in remaining so. You need to back off girl and realize that this list IS Naturopathic. It is for the dissemination of natural healing techniques , and maybe you might learn something about this if you listen instead of talk. Go ahead and ask all the questions you want, or query whatever you wish, but chill out with the allopathic comebacks. The first step to knowledge is realizing you "don't know". I certainly don't know it all and am learning all the time, but my knowledge in this field of Naturopathy (natural healing) IS extensive. If you want to learn, then I will help you to educate yourself, and so will many others on this list whose knowledge in the holistic arts is far superior to yours. I am not a very subtle person and lack the finesse and bedside manner that others may have, but I AM trying to help. If you are not in agreement with this, then perhaps you are in the wrong place. Doc Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.505-772-5889Dr.IanShillington - gayekyc1 herbal remedies Tuesday, July 22, 2003 6:00 PM Re: [herbal remedies] Doc/Medicos In a perfect world, we would all do the right thngs, eat the right foods, take the proper herbs, and natural remedies....But as you know this Isn't a perfect world. At the time we didn't know the signs and symptoms...We didn't know that the chicken pox she had 2-3 weeks prior to this could make her more susceptible to it...Chicken pox does lower the immune system. But we didn't know this at the time.....after all she had the "Immunizations"...lol. We weren't even expecting the chicken pox, much less "Spinal Menengitis!!! And at the very least....we didn't fathom her coming into contact with somebody who was carrying this germ. She and we were very blessed!! She had a vorocious appetite just a few hours before exibiting the symptoms. She ate a lot of fruit, strawberries, etc. Yes she had excruciating headaches, eyes hurt, sensitive to light and sound...delerium, from swelling of the brain.....she never had convulsions, but was comatose for about 24 hours...but all of this was AFTER the vomiting, fever, weakness, headache, body aches and pains, and the blue spot out break. And then you say?But I have to ask, "What were the parents doing, when the kid was complaining of a severe headache and/or had a fever???", and when the disease was in its chronic stage. As a matter f fact I stayed up with her all night, I thought she had overeaten, and was sick at her stomach. Or had a virus....not too uncommon in public school. This went on about 12 hrs...then she started getting a fever, then weak (naturally) from vomiting & fever)...then she started saying her head hurt, and was aching all over....still could be flu, virus, etc..........then she started breaking out in the blue spots... all of this in about a 2 hour period...By that time it wasn't "Chronic" anymore...The SEVERE headache didn't come until about 36 hours after the 1st symptoms...she was already in the hospital... And before AND during this 2 hours, I gave her hot and cold baths, she drank lots of fluids. I believe this delayed the more serious symptoms... And as for the question Where did "They" get the germ from??? Your guess is as good as mine...It just Exists... Toxins, poisons, allergens, bacteria, viruses, exist. For all we know, we the very people who love her more than our own life could have transferred this germ....Gaye Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.