I NEED OPINIONS AND THOUGHTS

[Guest guest]

Lisa, I'll bet that your medical doctors are not driving the latest Mercedes or Cadillacs, etc. either.

Phyllis

 

 

In a message dated 6/10/03 11:27:42 AM Mountain Daylight Time, lisabelcher writes:

 

This is a peculiar USA item though; we don't pay for health insurance in the UK. Well, we do, but it's through Income Tax. So everyone who pays income tax is insured for health matters. And if you get a state benefit, you're covered also.

love,

Lisa

[Guest guest]

Dear Sherry,

 

Sorry to hear of your husband. Valorie and I send condolences.

 

Your question was so intriguing to me I created an HR List Poll / Survey on it.

 

I'm very curious about the majority answer here.

 

Love,

 

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.

505-772-5889

Dr.IanShillington

 

Sherry Bakko [sbakko]Tuesday, June 10, 2003 10:17 AMHerbal Remedies[herbal remedies] I NEED OPINIONS AND THOUGHTSHi AllI lost my husband this past November. Our health insurance was through hiswork - when he died, my health insurance went from $99.00 to $310.00 a monthstarting in July. Now, I haven't been to a doctor in 15 years.....I am studying to be a masterherbalist - and would have no intention of going to a doctor for anythingother than broken bones.....I can't imagine what else would make me go to adoctor. I am thinking that $310.00 would go along way with massage,chiropractor, accupuncture, etc. I KNOW ALL THIS yet I am fearful ofletting the health insurance go.....anyway.....how many on this list do nothave health insurance.....what would you do if you ever had a broken bone ora ruptured appendix, or some emergency that herbs and alternatives couldn'tfix immediately...thanks everyone. I am all ears.SherryFederal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

[Guest guest]

Well shoot,

 

First off I would like to offer my condolences on the passing of your husband. Very sorry to hear this news. Course, you realize Sherry that if you ever need any help or what not we are all here to assist in any way we can.

 

Now for my thoughts,

 

You only have one appendix. How many bones you planning on breaking? For $310.00 a month I think the insurance company really really really likes you. Now I realize that a burst appendix is not something to fool around with. This is life threatening and dang painful to boot. Broken bones aren't a whole lot of fun either. Allopathic medicine does have its uses and these are born out in emergency situations.

 

Personally, I would tell the insurance company to take a hike. But then I have a bit of a problem with insurance anyway. From my perspective what am I insuring? That I am going to have an accident or need surgery. Why do I need to create this. Thoughts can be very powerful and quite creative even if we don't think they can be or are.

 

This is just the shortened version of my viewpoint on insurance. Hhhmmm, whatever happened to barter and doctors who made house calls.

 

My two cents worth,

 

Don Quai

 

-

Sherry Bakko

Herbal Remedies

Tuesday, June 10, 2003 7:17 PM

[herbal remedies] I NEED OPINIONS AND THOUGHTS

Hi AllI lost my husband this past November. Our health insurance was through hiswork - when he died, my health insurance went from $99.00 to $310.00 a monthstarting in July.

[Guest guest]

This is a peculiar USA item though; we don't pay for health insurance in the UK. Well, we do, but it's through Income Tax. So everyone who pays income tax is insured for health matters. And if you get a state benefit, you're covered also.

 

love,

Lisa

 

-

Dr. Ian Shillington

herbal remedies

Tuesday, June 10, 2003 5:39 PM

RE: [herbal remedies] I NEED OPINIONS AND THOUGHTS

 

Dear Sherry,

 

Sorry to hear of your husband. Valorie and I send condolences.

 

Your question was so intriguing to me I created an HR List Poll / Survey on it.

 

I'm very curious about the majority answer here.

 

Love,

 

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.

505-772-5889

Dr.IanShillington

 

Sherry Bakko [sbakko]Tuesday, June 10, 2003 10:17 AMHerbal Remedies[herbal remedies] I NEED OPINIONS AND THOUGHTSHi AllI lost my husband this past November. Our health insurance was through hiswork - when he died, my health insurance went from $99.00 to $310.00 a monthstarting in July. Now, I haven't been to a doctor in 15 years.....I am studying to be a masterherbalist - and would have no intention of going to a doctor for anythingother than broken bones.....I can't imagine what else would make me go to adoctor. I am thinking that $310.00 would go along way with massage,chiropractor, accupuncture, etc. I KNOW ALL THIS yet I am fearful ofletting the health insurance go.....anyway.....how many on this list do nothave health insurance.....what would you do if you ever had a broken bone ora ruptured appendix, or some emergency that herbs and alternatives couldn'tfix immediately...thanks everyone. I am all ears.SherryFederal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

[Guest guest]

on 6/10/03 8:27 AM, Suzanne Nottmeier at suziesgoats wrote:

 

 

I am in Minnesota - I know they cannot turn you away - but in the blink of an eye you can owe them your house, your bank account, etc.

 

Sherry

 

 

Sherry,

 

The hospitals CANNOT turn you away if you don't have insurance or can't pay.... there are signs in the hospitals about this.... let me see if I can find some more info.....

 

I am sorry to hear about your husband....Now he will be watching over you and waiting till you can come be with him.... Where do you live??

 

Suzi

 

 

Free online calendar <http://us.rd./mail_us/tag/*http://calendar.> with sync to Outlook.

 

[Guest guest]

I do believe it is the same here in Slovenia also. I wonder if all Europe is set up this way? For the taxes they levy it should be fairly decent coverage I would think. This must be what they call socialized medicine.

 

Don Quai

 

-

Lisa Belcher

herbal remedies

Tuesday, June 10, 2003 7:24 PM

Re: [herbal remedies] I NEED OPINIONS AND THOUGHTS

 

This is a peculiar USA item though; we don't pay for health insurance in the UK. Well, we do, but it's through Income Tax. So everyone who pays income tax is insured for health matters. And if you get a state benefit, you're covered also.

 

love,

Lisa

[Guest guest]

OK, now comes the other side of the "coin".... ((you know me, gotta shoot out another sticking point....)) ((Someone has to take the other side... might as well be me....rolf)

 

What happens if you do break a bone.... or your appendix does bust, or whatever..... you don't have insurance, how do you handle this.... suffer?? Things do happen in life....(notice I am not calling them accidents....) whether we want them to or not....

Suzi

Don wrote:

Well shoot,

 

You only have one appendix. How many bones you planning on breaking? For $310.00 a month I think the insurance company really really really likes you. Now I realize that a burst appendix is not something to fool around with. This is life threatening and dang painful to boot. Broken bones aren't a whole lot of fun either. Allopathic medicine does have its uses and these are born out in emergency situations.

 

My two cents worth,

 

Don QuaiFederal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

[Guest guest]

No, you go to the hospital just like a normally insured person would. It is much cheaper for the hospital to fix you up than to have to deal with legal costs etc. If they refuse to assist in helping you they open themselves up. Lawyers don't come cheap even if there are 1.6 billion of them in the world today. Besides, most hospitals know that there is always the possibility of the uninsured getting admitted into their hospital. They have protocols to deal with this, making arrangements to pay or whatever. I am also sure that they will happily accept Visa, MasterCard, American Express, or what have you.

 

I'd still prefer not to be insured. I would rather take my chances and I tend to agree with Doc on the being "Full Cause" or taking responsibility for oneself.

 

Don Quai

 

-

Suzanne Nottmeier

herbal remedies

Tuesday, June 10, 2003 7:38 PM

RE: [herbal remedies] I NEED OPINIONS AND THOUGHTS

 

 

 

 

OK, now comes the other side of the "coin".... ((you know me, gotta shoot out another sticking point....)) ((Someone has to take the other side... might as well be me....rolf)

 

What happens if you do break a bone.... or your appendix does bust, or whatever..... you don't have insurance, how do you handle this.... suffer?? Things do happen in life....(notice I am not calling them accidents....) whether we want them to or not....

Suzi

[Guest guest]

I got it figured out!!!!! When we get bad sick we go down and stay with Doc and he cures us and we work it off......

((Are you still smiling Doc??????) ((Sorry Val, couldn't resist!!!)

 

Suzi

 

 

 

Free online calendar with sync to Outlook.

[Guest guest]

Dear Sherry,

 

This is one area where I walk the talk (actually, I do that all the time, but I'm passionately adamant about this one ;o)

 

I would never dream of ever having health insurance under any circumstances. Period.

 

As far as I'm concerned this is just part of the Medico / Psych trap.

 

This is my logic on it: By having insurance, you are acknowledging the "effect" viewpoint. You are acknowledging that things may get beyond your control. In some ways you are placing your responsibility and control for yourself on a "via". It's kind of a trap in some ways. You could say, welllllllll, I'm taking responsibility by buying insurance. I've got myself covered. Wellllllllll, if you were ever looking for an excuse to fail, you now have this covered. Get the idea??? It is agreement on possibly getting sick or getting yourself injured. By not having insurance, you are 100% aware that your health is your responsibility without exception. By not having insurance, you are 100% aware that when you're driving, you better be in present time rather than day-dreaming so as not to be part of a car accident even when "caused" by someone else. This is a major problem in society today - No one is responsible and the system is being set up that way, and promoted as the way to be.

 

Now, I know that many may disagree with me on the above, and this is their right. I don't agree with a lot that is going on with this planet right now myself and this is my right. One of the things I don't agree with is the "Effect / Victim" viewpoint under any circumstances. Admittedly, this is a toughie for some people to grasp as all you have to do is look around the world and there are "victims" all over the place by the millions. The "proof" seems to be against me on this as it seems to be soooo obvious.

 

Well, all I can say is that you should try adopting the "Full Cause" viewpoint. It is an interesting exercise. I didn't always have it, but ever since I decided to operate that way, my life has gone totally "right". No excuses! No snivelling! No backing down!

 

For me there is only win. Failure is not an option.

 

In the blink of an eye you can only owe them your house, your bank account, etc if you let them.

 

As Winston Churchill once said, "Never give up! Never! Never! Never!" It was the entirety of his shortest and one of his most famous speeches.

 

As long as you operate on the greatest good for the greatest number and take into consideration the survival of other guy, you are in the right, and should never back down.

 

Love,

 

Doc

 

PS. I'll get off my soapbox now ROTFLOL ;o)

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.

505-772-5889

Dr.IanShillington

 

Sherry Bakko [sbakko]Tuesday, June 10, 2003 10:34 AMherbal remedies Subject: Re: [herbal remedies] I NEED OPINIONS AND THOUGHTSon 6/10/03 8:27 AM, Suzanne Nottmeier at suziesgoats wrote:I am in Minnesota - I know they cannot turn you away - but in the blink of an eye you can owe them your house, your bank account, etc. Sherry

[Guest guest]

Ours are just rushing us through the system and if you can't even find a

GP if you need one. I'm in Canada and I'm in awe of the way the NHS works.

That's how our system is supposed to work but someone bunged it up.

 

ILANA xoxo

 

ChinLdy wrote:

Lisa, I'll bet that your medical doctors are not driving the

latest Mercedes or Cadillacs, etc. either.

Phyllis

 

 

In a message dated 6/10/03 11:27:42 AM Mountain Daylight Time, lisabelcher

writes:

 

 

This is a peculiar USA item though; we don't pay for health insurance

in the UK. Well, we do, but it's through Income Tax. So everyone who pays

income tax is insured for health matters. And if you get a state benefit,

you're covered also.

love,

Lisa

 

 

 

 

 

Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following:

1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.

2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural

remedy.

3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and

to

prescribe for your own health.

We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long

as

they behave themselves.

Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person

 

following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk.

It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from

list members, you are agreeing to

be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members

free of any liability.

 

Dr. Ian Shillington

Doctor of Naturopathy

Dr.IanShillington

 

 

[Guest guest]

Sherry wrote:

> I lost my husband this past November. Our health

> insurance was through his

> work - when he died, my health insurance went from

> $99.00 to $310.00 a month

> starting in July. (snip)

 

 

Firstly, I am so sorry to hear of the loss of your

husband. I cannot imagine how that feels. About health

insurance, I will vote in the polls, but thought I'd

post an answer here, as well. Like most everyone on

this list I try to keep myself healthy and cure my own

ills as they arise. I do have health insurance, but

the majority of its cost is paid for by my employer (I

live in the US). A big deal always seems to be made

for prescription drug coveage, but I never use it

since I don't take anything like that.

 

Were it not paid for by my employer, I would still

feel the need for major madical coverage in case of

bad accidents, I just need to know that would be

covered, as my salary would never pay for a hospital

stay. I don't feel that that puts negativity out

there, as I feel that the chances of my getting into

an accident are quite slim, but am enough of a Taurean

(wink) to need that safety net.

 

I also pay for my own dental insurance, as that type

of work is something that has to be done by a

professional and something that, too, is less

expensive to pay premiums + a reduced fee than to

outright pay for dental work.

 

Just my opinions.

 

 

Madelyn

[Guest guest]

As Don said earlier, the MDs do have some small use.

 

They are fairly good in regards getting the bullets, and the steering wheels out, and setting a few bones.

 

Some broken bones don't need to be set, but the MDs won't tell you that. They want you and your kids to go to them for everything.

 

One of the teachers up at the private school I'm the Doc for, got driven in to me one day with his ankle the size of a football. It was obviously broken and I told him we could wrap it in bandages to keep it straight, and herbs for the pain, but the main thing was to keep it up, wrapped, and stay off of it. He was shocked. What about a cast??? What about pain killers??? What about the hospital??? I told him to go in to the hospital if he wanted to but that they really couldn't do anymore for him than I could. He went in and sure enough it was broken in three places. The Doc in the hospital said they couldn't set it for three days or put it in cast until the swelling went down. He was disgusted, came back and let me wrap it, and took Lobelia, Valerian, and White Willow bark for the pain, and did Hot and Cold Therapy on it for the next two weeks.

 

I've got news for you. When you break a bone the area swells up like that for a very good reason. It separates the broken pieces from each other so that they can realign naturally as the tissue shrinks over time. This swelling also helps somewhat with the pain. The important thing is to wrap it straight. Broken ribs??? Usually a good wrap will do the trick. Albeit, some bones do need a cast and the Medico does come in handy there. In 57 years of very hard living, I've broken only one bone (with all I've been through, that is a miracle ;o). I can't see paying $300 a month to handle one incident. Let me see . . . $300 a month for 57 years, that comes to $205,000. Naaaaaaaaaa, I'll take my chances and pay cash for the hospital visit if I ever break a bone because I decide to look at some pretty girl walking down the street when I should be keeping my eye on the road. ;o)

 

And how did the incident with my teacher friend work out??? He runs 25 miles a week with 5K of them running with me every Sunday morning.

 

Oh yeah, I just remembered. I charged him $36 for the office visit, the wrap, and the herbs. LOL

 

Love,

 

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.

505-772-5889

Dr.IanShillington

 

Don Quai [mysticalherbalist]Tuesday, June 10, 2003 10:55 AMherbal remedies Subject: Re: [herbal remedies] I NEED OPINIONS AND THOUGHTS

No, you go to the hospital just like a normally insured person would. It is much cheaper for the hospital to fix you up than to have to deal with legal costs etc. If they refuse to assist in helping you they open themselves up. Lawyers don't come cheap even if there are 1.6 billion of them in the world today. Besides, most hospitals know that there is always the possibility of the uninsured getting admitted into their hospital. They have protocols to deal with this, making arrangements to pay or whatever. I am also sure that they will happily accept Visa, MasterCard, American Express, or what have you.

 

I'd still prefer not to be insured. I would rather take my chances and I tend to agree with Doc on the being "Full Cause" or taking responsibility for oneself.

 

Don Quai

 

-

Suzanne Nottmeier

herbal remedies

Tuesday, June 10, 2003 7:38 PM

RE: [herbal remedies] I NEED OPINIONS AND THOUGHTS

 

 

 

 

OK, now comes the other side of the "coin".... ((you know me, gotta shoot out another sticking point....)) ((Someone has to take the other side... might as well be me....rolf)

 

What happens if you do break a bone.... or your appendix does bust, or whatever..... you don't have insurance, how do you handle this.... suffer?? Things do happen in life....(notice I am not calling them accidents....) whether we want them to or not....

Suzi

[Guest guest]

Whaddya mean, am I still smiling???

It's a deal ROTFLOL

Much love,

Doc

PS. When you work for me, I run yer tail off. ;o)

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.

505-772-5889

Dr.IanShillington

 

Suzanne Nottmeier [suziesgoats]Tuesday, June 10, 2003 10:55 AMherbal remedies Subject: Re: [herbal remedies] I NEED OPINIONS AND THOUGHTS

I got it figured out!!!!! When we get bad sick we go down and stay with Doc and he cures us and we work it off......

((Are you still smiling Doc??????) ((Sorry Val, couldn't resist!!!)

Suzi

[Guest guest]

herbal remedies , madelyn <madelyn3000>

wrote:

>

> Sherry wrote:

> > I lost my husband this past November. Our health

> > insurance was through his

> > work - when he died, my health insurance went from

> > $99.00 to $310.00 a month

> > starting in July. (snip)

 

Sorry to hear about your husband. Sometimes I think the biggest

health risk is the uncertainty and sadness after losing a loved one.

Try to stay as active as possible and make sure you surround yourself

with those you love and that love you.

 

In the March/April issue of Countryside and Small stock journal they

have a whole section on affordable health care and options. It is

worth the $3.95 to read. Ideas from medical savings accounts to

beefing up your soil for healthier food. I think the MSA is a good

way to go, you are still responsible for your health but have an

account set up that will tide you over " just in case " . Put your

99.00 or 310.00 in one of those and earn some interest. It puts YOU

in control.

 

I have insurance through my hubby's work and would feel a bit uneasy

iwthout it. My kids play hockey and skateboard! Enough said. Good

luck and stay happy.

 

Carlin

[Guest guest]

Depending on your age, AARP has a supplemental plan for

hospitalization that is way cheap. It does not pay for all, but it

does pay a portion and it really helped my father when he had his

quadrupal bypass. Eych!

Carlin

[Guest guest]

Hello Sherry,

I fully understand how you feel.

In my family it's me, dh and our girl and boy and then I'm pregnant and dh has a daughter by first witch that we are responsible for 70% of medical, dental, and optical after the first 378 dollars a year. And, every time her nose runs her mama takes her to a doctor that charges 65 for office visits.

Anyhow...my husband cut his finger tip off past his finger nail and that ER and Plastic Surgeons bill was 2001.37. And that was with the plastic surgeon giving us 70% discount. I thought it was mighty nice of the pompous bastard. Sorry, these things just piss me off.

But, I refuse to become a sucker of the medicos. Insurance is bull, and that's just how it is.

How are we paying for the finger? I make monthly payments. Three years ago my husband had his gall bladder removed, we got a loan for that...just paid the last payment this month as a matter of fact.

What did we pay the loan with? The money we would have been paying outrageous insurance with. My loan pymt was 200 a month.

Lots of places don't charge self pays what they charge an insurance company. That right there tells me there is some fraud going on...but, that's how we've found it to be.

I am due in January..what will I do?

Well, if mother nature's a willin and the creek don't rise I am having this baby at home.

We just take it one day at a time with health.

I worry these very kind folks on this list too death all the time. And, it's true...I will spend $60 at the health store before I will pay 45 for the doctor and 10 for antibiotics. That hasn't happened yet, but I wouldn't blink an eye if it did. I have this fear that ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING in a pharmacy or doctors office is toxic poison.

My husband and I don't ever go to the doctor for minor junk like colds, flu and such. And, the only time the kids go is if the school says something. Then, I have a doctor's excuse for their absence. But, I can't tell you the prescriptions I've thrown away because I just think alot of it's abuse. About the only thing we go to the doctor for is broken bones or cut off body parts. That sounds bad, but it all started because we didn't have the money to go to start with.

My mother told me once that I was just ASKING for trouble with not having insurance...I told her she was IN trouble for depending on poison for her body.

I've only been on this list for about four months, maybe. But, I'd bet my last dollar on Don, Suzi or Doc before I'd give a doctor or insurance company 50 cents, FOR ANYTHING THAT CAN GO WRONG WITH ANYTHING. That's not to say there aren't many more on here that's right up there, I just haven't had much experience with them.

And I'll tell you something else, you won't get the tongue clicking and bitching and gripping from these folks that you will from doctors. And, I have never been told on here that I'm not welcome just because I'm over weight or that I smoke or because I don't eat 100% organic.

Sorry if I've overstepped my bounds here, but that's how I feel.

Angel

 

All incoming and outgoing scanned with NAV for both our protection.

 

[Guest guest]

Fern, your two cents are gold.

This is a great post.

Love,

Doc

PS. And thanks for holding back on the Dogma in regards your faith. It is hard sometimes when you just know that that is part of the answer. LOL ;o)

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.

505-772-5889

Dr.IanShillington

 

Fern [readnwrite]Tuesday, June 10, 2003 11:51 AMherbal remedies Subject: Re: [herbal remedies] I NEED OPINIONS AND THOUGHTSHi Sherry,When I was trying to make this same decision some time ago, a friendof mine said to me, "You know that if it pays the insurance company toinvest your money, that it's got to pay you to invest it foryourself."I made the decision to go without medical insurance, and I foundsomething interesting: I suddenly took a ton more responsibility formy own health. I started doing research on nutrition, diet, herbs,vitamins and other supplements, and on lifestyle, etc. in order toprevent those sorts of things that would require me to go to anallopathic doctor. AND, because I wasn't making a monthly or quarterlyinsruance payment, I suddenly could afford to seek alternative typesof treatment. I've been going to a chiropractor who does CRA and BRT,and he has helped me tremendously -- far more than any allopathicdoctor has ever helped me!Regarding emergency situations in which you may have to go to thehospital for treament, as far as I understand, hospitals cannot refuseyou treatment. Furthermore, as long as you meet your monthly payments,they can't come after your home, car, etc. And most of the time, thosemonthly payments are far less than insurance payments. For me, if I'mgoing to be paying out money for health care, I'd far rather it go fortreatment I have already received, rather than for treament I MIGHTneed someday.IMO, there's something majorly wrong with the whole "health" system inthe U.S. I just talked to someone on Sunday who was telling me thathe's paying $22,000 a year for health insurance! His wife hasParkinson's, but even then, I can't imagine that if he didn't haveinsurance, that he'd pay that much every year on doctor's bills anddrugs for the two of them. Furthermore, if they would go a morealternative route for his wife's treatment, I'm sure she'd findtremendous more help at a far less cost than what they're paying now.If you have to pay out money for health insurance that only coversallopathic types of treatment, you'll likely not have the money to payfor the more natural and alternative treatment that you really need.At least that was the way it was for me. I'm far better offhealth-wise now than I was when I had insurance.Don't forget that the whole system WANTS you to be fearful about nothaving health insurance. After all, if you don't have healthinsurance, you likely won't accept every treatment and drug they wantto shove on you so that they can put more money in THEIR pockets. Thatfear is how they keep their paradigm from crumbling. They also wantyou to think that there's nothing YOU can do for yourself medically orhealth-wise.To me, it doesn't even make sense to have insurance. Unless, ofcourse, all you want is allopathic treatment and drugs, don't mindpaying through the nose for it, and don't care if they cut you up todo it.Additionally, I really can't say all of this without also saying thatmy faith plays a very large part in my decision. But since that's OTfor this list, I'll leave it at that.And that's my "two cents" worth on the topic. :)Fern

[Guest guest]

That is a very good point Ann. If they know you don't have insurance, there is a good chance you'll just get fixed up without any of the extra expensive frills.

 

Love,

 

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.

505-772-5889

Dr.IanShillington

 

Tohelpwilliam [Tohelpwilliam]Tuesday, June 10, 2003 12:53 PMherbal remedies Subject: Re: [herbal remedies] I NEED OPINIONS AND THOUGHTS

Sherry,We dropped our insurance a few years ago when we figured that we had paid over$10,000 in premiums and never used it. I'm thinking that if you did need hospitalization or a dr's care, as soon as they find out you don't have insurance, they will do as little as possible on you. That seems like a good thing to me.Sorry to hear about your husband.Ann

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 6/10/2003 10:40:51 AM Pacific Standard Time, suziesgoats writes:

 

 

What happens if you do break a bone.... or your appendix does bust, or whatever..... you don't have insurance, how do you handle this.... suffer?? Things do happen in life....(notice I am not calling them accidents....) whether we want them to or not....

Suzi

 

 

Suzi

That is my reasoning. My dad (although this can be preventable I know) had several kidney stone incidents within a matter of years. Without insurance they would have lost tons to pay for all that. Esp. if they see you dont pay the first time and you have to keep going in. Emergencies do happen and I for one wouldnt have the money for them. Health isnurance IS too high and it ISNT needed much if healthy, but if anything does happen that you dont feel you can handle yourself (car accident, you need an mri, sudden surgery, hemmorhage, heart attack), etc, its good to know you have it.

 

Just my 2 cents

Erin

[Guest guest]

on 6/10/03 1:33 PM, Dr. Ian Shillington at Dr.IanShillington wrote:

 

 

Holy Moly Batman - I never dreamt there would be this kind of response. Thanks to all of you for you well wishes and stories. I have felt all along that insurance isn't the answer for me - I realize that I am letting fear control me. I am studying to become a master herbalist through Dr. Christophers school - I know what needs to be done.

 

Part of it is the fact that Russ is gone - it seems like all's I have been doing these past 6 months is making hard decisions - ones that will affect my life in a big way. I can do alot more for myself with the $300.00 with alternative methods - and I also dislike insurance companies ALOT. Doc put it in perspective about paying all your life for insurance for WHAT?? I have not been to a doctor in atleast 12 maybe even 15 years......but paying every month for all of those years. It is also interesting to me how the insurance company can afford to carry two of us for $99.00 and now there is only me and they want $310.00 a month......thanks again everyone. I know what I must do. I knew it before, just needed a little nudge.

 

Sherry

 

As Don said earlier, the MDs do have some small use.

[Guest guest]

ROFL I love debates too Yes but what about is someone shoots/stabs you?

What were you doing in a neighborhood like that??? Who was it that decided to go into that part of town in the first place???

 

A hurricane?

In Florida, where most of the hurricanes happen, the early warning system has not been known to fail for the last 30 years. The State always gives the populace the option of moving out long before it hits??? Again a choice can be made.

 

A rabid dog attack?

Statistically, this happens almost as often as a Blue Moon. However, again there is usually some kind of notice from authorities, and one is usually aware of a major "hunt" in one's neighborhood. This kind of news usually spreads like wildfire, and one has to ask oneself, who made the decision to go outside knowing there was such a risk.

 

A drunk driver rams into you?

Wellllll, there is always that pretty girl walking down the street as I already mentioned ;o), but if one is not leading a toxic lifestyle (Toxic Food, Toxic Water, Toxic Jobs, Toxic Relationships, etc.), one is usually aware enough to avoid idiots (Toxic Drivers ;o).

 

You slip and your head cracks open?

Why didn't you buy those new snow boots you were planning to purchase a month ago??? Who was it that made the decision to go out into that blizzard anyway when they knew better??? Actually, Toxic Jobs and Toxic Relationships play a big part in this one too.

 

A freak accident with the garbage disposal causes it to switch on when your hand is fishing out food?

OK, now you're pushing it LOL. )

 

Have you ever experienced knowing about something before it happens. Many times people don't listen to that inner voice when they should know better. Some people are so toxic (mentally, physically and even spiritually) that they can't hear this inner voice even when it's screaming. Others hear it, ignore it, something goes wrong and then they negate it saying it wasn't there in the first place. The next thing you know they can't hear it anymore, cause they never took responsibility for it when they did. You can call this inner voice "conscience", "prescience", "innate knowingness" or anything else you wish, but we all have it to a greater or lesser degree. Those who are the most toxic (physically, mentally and spiritually) have less access to it, but just like the chocoholic sugar junky, there was the original choice there to fall into that toxic trap. Just like the alcoholic who has an alcoholic father, and an alcoholic grandfather, who then goes ahead and breaks that mold, shows us that there are always choices. Always! You can be the master of your own fate or the Effect / Victim of your own negative decisions. And that too is our choice.

 

As Rosalind Russell said in the movie Auntie Mame, "Life is a Banquet, and most poor fools out there are starving".

 

It is up to all of us to "grab the moment" or not. You can be anything you want to be. You can do anything you want to do. You can have anything you want to have. The first step is making that primary, firm, unalterable decision.

 

Or not.

 

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours". (Richard Bach - Illusions . . . ;o)

 

Love and Laughter,

 

Doc

[Guest guest]

on 6/10/03 7:19 PM, ErinJC23 at ErinJC23 wrote:

 

In a message dated 6/10/2003 8:23:06 AM Pacific Standard Time, ilana writes:

 

 

I don't want to start a sob story here.....but I feel compelled to share this with everyone. My husband was diagnosed with Hodgkins disease when he was 27 years old......he did the western medicine approach to cancer at that time - some thirty years ago. He did the radiation and chemotherapy. He was diagnosed as CURED. But since he was diagnosed as cured......our lives together consisted of many more lymphs removed, pancreas problems, high blood pressure, heart murmur, enlarged prostate, sleep apnea, anxiety attacks, gall bladder removed, alot of colds, upper respiratory stuff, and never able to handle stress in any way shape or form. BUT, he was CURED as far as western medicine was concerned. His body was SCREAMING at us. About 6 years ago, my animals got me interested in herbs, alternative therapies, no vaccines, raw diet, etc. That, in turn, got Russ and myself interested in herbs for ourselves. Five years ago Russ was rushed to emergency and was diagnosed with 'walking pneumonia (whatever that is, probably years of antibiotic suppression) and at that time they noticed inconsistencies with his heart. He went back the next day and they put him on a stress test machine and within 2 minutes was told to get off and come back the next day for angioplasty (sp). He never went back - we learned all we could about cleansing, nutrition and herbs. He lived the happiest, healthiest years of his life the last five years. He was here one minute and gone the next. He hated western medicine - we just didn't find it soon enough.....we ran out of time. I just keep wondering IF we did not have insurance (which made it sooo convenient to run to the doctors) would we have looked into other modalites???? I don't know.......it doesn't matter........insurance is a crutch. It keeps us in a false sense of security. It makes us lazy and dependent. I saw it with my own eyes. I am going back into lurkdom.....but want everyone to know - there will be NO more insurance payments made by this herbalist..........they can take a hike. Good nite to all of you wonderful souls.......which reminds me......western medicine has lost all of its compassion too.

 

Sherry

 

 

Sherry,

I'm in Canada and things are very different here so can't pipe up on that subject but I just wanted to offer my condolences on the passing of your husband.

 

Love,

ILANA xoxo

 

 

OH YES! Where is my head!?!?! I am SO sorry for not offering my condolences in the previous post (slaps self)

 

Erin

 

[Guest guest]

ROFL I love debates too Yes but what about is someone shoots/stabs you?

What were you doing in a neighborhood like that??? Who was it that decided to go into that part of town in the first place???

 

LOL I dont think it's as clear cut at this, but that's just me. Violence is not preventable in all cases, there's no way. You can walk into a store and someone decides to pull out a gun, a friend you trusted loses his/her temper. People are unpredictable, while you can control your own actions you can't control theirs. I would like to have insurance if I had to be treated for a gunshot wound or knife wound. Thankfully this is an extreme example, but it's becoming more and more common.

 

 

 

A rabid dog attack?

Statistically, this happens almost as often as a Blue Moon. However, again there is usually some kind of notice from authorities, and one is usually aware of a major "hunt" in one's neighborhood. This kind of news usually spreads like wildfire, and one has to ask oneself, who made the decision to go outside knowing there was such a risk. Here it might be a snake bite...lol

 

LOL Suzi makes a good point. Someone always has to be the first to be bit :/ I remember we had a rabid animal outbreak around here because of the swamps burning up for so many months. The warning lasted for months. A person can't seriously sit in the house for months on end, lose their work and everything they own because there are animals somewhere out there with rabies. But not rabies, I suppose my example was more extreme or humurous lol. Snake bites are a good example though, lol. We have plenty in Florida. And no, I dont see how these can be prevented. I dont see a person being careless if a snake under their feet bites them when they didn't know they were there.

 

 

 

A drunk driver rams into you?

Wellllll, there is always that pretty girl walking down the street as I already mentioned ;o), but if one is not leading a toxic lifestyle (Toxic Food, Toxic Water, Toxic Jobs, Toxic Relationships, etc.), one is usually aware enough to avoid idiots (Toxic Drivers ;o)

 

You cannot always avoid idiots. It is impossible on the road. That is why there are so many people killed by drunk drivers. The drunk driver scenario was also just an example of a car accident. There is always teh chance you can get into a wreck with someone who was not drinking but was at fault, and couldn't manuever away from it at the time.

 

You slip and your head cracks open?

 

Why didn't you buy those new snow boots you were planning to purchase a month ago??? not much works on ice. Who was it that made the decision to go out into that blizzard anyway when they knew better??? if you're at work you don't have a choice to either spend the nite at work or go home..... Actually, Toxic Jobs and Toxic Relationships play a big part in this one too.

 

Again I don't agree. My neighbor slipped in her driveway recently going to check the mail. She landed on herself wrong and broke her arm in Three places, which would definitely hurt lol. But she wasn't being careless, it wasn't raining, etc. And a 3 1/2 yr old I know recently fell out of a rocking chair she was in and cracked her head open.

 

Again, debates are good, arguments not : ) I really don't see how all this can be prevented. Sometimes life happens, I don't see how one can control everything...if we could, life would be a lot better for everyone lol. If you have enough money if an emergency happens that's one thing, but if you don't sometimes it's good to have an emergency back-up, in my humble opinion of course.

 

Anyone else have any thoughts???

 

Goes back underground....

 

Erin

 

 

 

A freak accident with the garbage disposal causes it to switch on when your hand is fishing out food?

OK, now you're pushing it LOL. ) ROFL

[Guest guest]

REBUTTAL TIME....

"Dr. Ian Shillington" <Dr.IanShillington wrote:

 

ROFL I love debates too Yes but what about is someone shoots/stabs you?

What were you doing in a neighborhood like that??? Who was it that decided to go into that part of town in the first place??? Who says you were in a bad neighborhood....

 

A hurricane?

In Florida, where most of the hurricanes happen, the early warning system has not been known to fail for the last 30 years. The State always gives the populace the option of moving out long before it hits??? Again a choice can be made. Here it is tornados and high winds and sometimes no warning.

 

A rabid dog attack?

Statistically, this happens almost as often as a Blue Moon. However, again there is usually some kind of notice from authorities, and one is usually aware of a major "hunt" in one's neighborhood. This kind of news usually spreads like wildfire, and one has to ask oneself, who made the decision to go outside knowing there was such a risk. Here it might be a snake bite...lol

 

A drunk driver rams into you?

Wellllll, there is always that pretty girl walking down the street as I already mentioned ;o), but if one is not leading a toxic lifestyle (Toxic Food, Toxic Water, Toxic Jobs, Toxic Relationships, etc.), one is usually aware enough to avoid idiots (Toxic Drivers ;o) Not always the case....

You slip and your head cracks open?

Why didn't you buy those new snow boots you were planning to purchase a month ago??? not much works on ice. Who was it that made the decision to go out into that blizzard anyway when they knew better??? if you're at work you don't have a choice to either spend the nite at work or go home..... Actually, Toxic Jobs and Toxic Relationships play a big part in this one too.

 

A freak accident with the garbage disposal causes it to switch on when your hand is fishing out food?

OK, now you're pushing it LOL. ) ROFL

 

Have you ever experienced knowing about something before it happens. Many times people don't listen to that inner voice when they should know better. Some people are so toxic (mentally, physically and even spiritually) that they can't hear this inner voice even when it's screaming. Others hear it, ignore it, something goes wrong and then they negate it saying it wasn't there in the first place. The next thing you know they can't hear it anymore, cause they never took responsibility for it when they did. You can call this inner voice "conscience", "prescience", "innate knowingness" or anything else you wish, but we all have it to a greater or lesser degree. Those who are the most toxic (physically, mentally and spiritually) have less access to it,

but just like the chocoholic sugar junky, there was the original choice there to fall into that toxic trap. Just like the alcoholic who has an alcoholic father, and an alcoholic grandfather, who then goes ahead and breaks that mold, shows us that there are always choices. Always! You can be the master of your own fate unless it is "Willed" or "ordained" that it WILL happen...and then there is nothing you can do to prevent it. Some things are meant to take place, beyond our control, unless you believe in nothing. or the Effect / Victim of your own negative decisions. And that too is our choice.

 

As Rosalind Russell said in the movie Auntie Mame, "Life is a Banquet, and most poor fools out there are starving".

 

It is up to all of us to "grab the moment" or not. You can be anything you want to be. You can do anything you want to do. You can have anything you want to have. The first step is making that primary, firm, unalterable decision.

 

Or not.

 

"Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours". (Richard Bach - Illusions . . . ;o)

 

Love and Laughter,

 

Doc Suzi

 

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