Guest guest Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 Hello Atul: What kind of TCM treatment did you receive for your ankle? Acupuncture, herbs, massage, moxibustion? Kind regards, Jack --- tulu489 <tulu489 wrote: > For the last one and half years I have pain in my > ankles. It started > with the right ankle. First a small painful black > patch on the heel > then the pain gradually advanced to ankle. After > about one month the > other ankle was also affected. I have pain all the > time, in the morning > it is worse. Sitting for long time makes ankle > stiff. Blood work does > not point to arthritis. I tried some Ayurvedic > arthritis med but no > improvement. For about two months I took TCM > treatment from a > practisioner who had helped me with my other health > conditions in the > past. TCM treatment too did not help. Because of > this pain I am unable > to walk properly. > > Any help, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > Thanks. > > Atul > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 Herbal, in the form of tea. Jack Sweeney <mojavecowboy wrote: Hello Atul: What kind of TCM treatment did you receive for your ankle? Acupuncture, herbs, massage, moxibustion? Kind regards, Jack --- tulu489 <tulu489 wrote: > For the last one and half years I have pain in my > ankles. It started > with the right ankle. First a small painful black > patch on the heel > then the pain gradually advanced to ankle. After > about one month the > other ankle was also affected. I have pain all the > time, in the morning > it is worse. Sitting for long time makes ankle > stiff. Blood work does > not point to arthritis. I tried some Ayurvedic > arthritis med but no > improvement. For about two months I took TCM > treatment from a > practisioner who had helped me with my other health > conditions in the > past. TCM treatment too did not help. Because of > this pain I am unable > to walk properly. > > Any help, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > Thanks. > > Atul > > > > Get on board. You're invited to try the new Mail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 Did the practitioner tell you what it was? Jack --- tulu 489 <tulu489 wrote: > Herbal, in the form of tea. > > Jack Sweeney <mojavecowboy wrote: > Hello Atul: > > What kind of TCM treatment did you receive for your > ankle? Acupuncture, herbs, massage, moxibustion? > > Kind regards, Jack > > --- tulu489 <tulu489 wrote: > > > For the last one and half years I have pain in my > > ankles. It started > > with the right ankle. First a small painful black > > patch on the heel > > then the pain gradually advanced to ankle. After > > about one month the > > other ankle was also affected. I have pain all the > > time, in the morning > > it is worse. Sitting for long time makes ankle > > stiff. Blood work does > > not point to arthritis. I tried some Ayurvedic > > arthritis med but no > > improvement. For about two months I took TCM > > treatment from a > > practisioner who had helped me with my other > health > > conditions in the > > past. TCM treatment too did not help. Because of > > this pain I am unable > > to walk properly. > > > > Any help, suggestions would be greatly > appreciated. > > Thanks. > > > > Atul > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > protection around > > > > > > > > > Get on board. You're invited to try the new > Mail. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 15, 2006 Report Share Posted October 15, 2006 She said it is arthritis. Generally arthritis pain responds very well to some Ayurvedic herbal oils. I used them too but almost no improvement. Two months of herbal treatment also showed no improvement. Regards. atul Jack Sweeney <mojavecowboy wrote: Did the practitioner tell you what it was? Jack --- tulu 489 <tulu489 wrote: > Herbal, in the form of tea. > > Jack Sweeney <mojavecowboy wrote: > Hello Atul: > > What kind of TCM treatment did you receive for your > ankle? Acupuncture, herbs, massage, moxibustion? > > Kind regards, Jack > > --- tulu489 <tulu489 wrote: > > > For the last one and half years I have pain in my > > ankles. It started > > with the right ankle. First a small painful black > > patch on the heel > > then the pain gradually advanced to ankle. After > > about one month the > > other ankle was also affected. I have pain all the > > time, in the morning > > it is worse. Sitting for long time makes ankle > > stiff. Blood work does > > not point to arthritis. I tried some Ayurvedic > > arthritis med but no > > improvement. For about two months I took TCM > > treatment from a > > practisioner who had helped me with my other > health > > conditions in the > > past. TCM treatment too did not help. Because of > > this pain I am unable > > to walk properly. > > > > Any help, suggestions would be greatly > appreciated. > > Thanks. > > > > Atul > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > protection around > > > > > > > > > Get on board. You're invited to try the new > Mail. > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > Get your email and more, right on the new .com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Atul: It is difficult to say over the internet, but have you or your doctor considered sciatica? The sciatic nerve runs down the back of both legs. Kind regards, Jack --- tulu 489 <tulu489 wrote: > She said it is arthritis. Generally arthritis pain > responds very well to some Ayurvedic herbal oils. I > used them too but almost no improvement. Two months > of herbal treatment also showed no improvement. > > Regards. > > atul > > Jack Sweeney <mojavecowboy wrote: > Did the practitioner tell you what it was? > > Jack > > --- tulu 489 <tulu489 wrote: > > > Herbal, in the form of tea. > > > > Jack Sweeney <mojavecowboy wrote: > > Hello Atul: > > > > What kind of TCM treatment did you receive for > your > > ankle? Acupuncture, herbs, massage, moxibustion? > > > > Kind regards, Jack > > > > --- tulu489 <tulu489 wrote: > > > > > For the last one and half years I have pain in > my > > > ankles. It started > > > with the right ankle. First a small painful > black > > > patch on the heel > > > then the pain gradually advanced to ankle. After > > > about one month the > > > other ankle was also affected. I have pain all > the > > > time, in the morning > > > it is worse. Sitting for long time makes ankle > > > stiff. Blood work does > > > not point to arthritis. I tried some Ayurvedic > > > arthritis med but no > > > improvement. For about two months I took TCM > > > treatment from a > > > practisioner who had helped me with my other > > health > > > conditions in the > > > past. TCM treatment too did not help. Because of > > > this pain I am unable > > > to walk properly. > > > > > > Any help, suggestions would be greatly > > appreciated. > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Atul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > > protection around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Get on board. You're invited to try the new > > Mail. > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > Tired of spam? Mail has the best spam > protection around > > > > > > > > Get your email and more, right on the new .com > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Hio tulu, A BLACK patch? inside or outside of the ankle? Blood stagnation, blood clots,..hhow are your veins of the feet? Do you do something(habitual postures, form of sitting, for example), that could block the blood flow on the ankles??? Marcos >> > > --- tulu489 <tulu489 wrote: > > > > > > > For the last one and half years I have pain in > > my > > > > ankles. It started > > > > with the right ankle. First a small painful > > black > > > > patch on the heel > > > > then the pain gradually advanced to ankle. After > > > > about one month the > > > > other ankle was also affected. I have pain all > > the > > > > time, in the morning > > > > it is worse. Sitting for long time makes ankle > > > > stiff. Blood work does > > > > not point to arthritis. I tried some Ayurvedic > > > > arthritis med but no > > > > improvement. For about two months I took TCM > > > > treatment from a > > > > practisioner who had helped me with my other > > > health > > > > conditions in the > > > > past. TCM treatment too did not help. Because of > > > > this pain I am unable > > > > to walk properly. > > > > > > > > Any help, suggestions would be greatly > > > appreciated. > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > Atul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _____ Novidade no Mail: receba alertas de novas mensagens no seu celular. Registre seu aparelho agora! http://br.mobile./mailalertas/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Atul, I've read your posts & Jack's responses & wish to add an idea. I'm not as familiar with TCM as some other posters are but perhaps a different TCM doctor may make a difference. If your current one is focusing on your ankle pain simply being arthritis & treating it that way, it may be the reason you're not finding relief. You say it started with a small black patch on your heel. I don't know how that relates to the pain but it may be significant & help a TCM doctor figure out your problem. Herbal teas may not be enough. Not all types or causes of arthritis are the same & so treatments may vary. I'm mentioning this because I was finally able to convince my 84 year old mother to see my TCM doctor. Her ankle & heel had pained her for quite some time & the ankle had become swollen for the last four months. She found no relief whatsoever from her ordinary doctor or medications. My TCM doctor looked at it, also checking her pulse & examining her tongue. She prescribed a paste of herbal mixtures (I could smell & see one was turmeric) to apply for 6 consecutive days. The salve was covered over with a plastic wrap & left on for 10 hours each evening & through the night. My mother was very skeptical but trusts me. After the 2nd day, the pain had lessened considerably. By the 5th day, it was gone completely & the ankle looked normal. The problem has not returned. My TCM doctor said that in certain conditions, herbs applied directly to where the problem area is far more effective than herbs taken internally. My mother was astounded that putting something on her ankle could affect such improvement so quickly. Perhaps a different method of taking these herbs, or even a different combination of herbs may do more good. Is there another TCM doctor in your area you can see? Just like regular western doctors, not all TCM doctors are equally good or knowledgeable about all conditions. Judy On Saturday 14 October 2006 11:21 am, tulu489 wrote: > For the last one and half years I have pain in my ankles. It started > with the right ankle. First a small painful black patch on the heel > then the pain gradually advanced to ankle. After about one month the > other ankle was also affected. I have pain all the time, in the morning > it is worse. Sitting for long time makes ankle stiff. Blood work does > not point to arthritis. I tried some Ayurvedic arthritis med but no > improvement. For about two months I took TCM treatment from a > practisioner who had helped me with my other health conditions in the > past. TCM treatment too did not help. Because of this pain I am unable > to walk properly. > > Any help, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > Thanks. > > Atul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 16, 2006 Report Share Posted October 16, 2006 Please describe the black spot on the heel. Was it like an ulcer with a black crust (called a " tache noire " ), or was it more like a bruise or was it like a blood blister? " Tache noire " is French for " black spot " . This sometimes appears when a person has been bitten by a tick. Ticks spread rickettsial disease, and some of those do have arthritis-like pain as a symptom. For example, arthritis-like pain is fairly common in Isael Spotted Fever. BUT, chances are if it is a reckettsial disease, pain in the ankle would have been among the least of your concerns. Symptoms of rickettsial diseases also include headache, fever, and rash. Also you said the pain spread to the other ankle after about one month. It's not likely that the pain would have skipped other joints. (Blood work for rheumatoid arthritis would be negative for some of the reckettsial diseases that can result in arthritis-like pain. Bone spurs are a possibility. They can arise from several causes. One of these being over-doing physically, especially too much running. Do you jog or play sports that involve a lot of running and jumping on hard pavement? Once the bone spur is created, it can throw alignment of the foot off, and the ankle can end up hurting more than the heel. In time the alignment in the other foot can be thrown off because of the favoring of the injured foot, and the other ankle starts to hurt. Did they x-ray you for the possibility of bone spurs. Chinese Traditional Medicine , " tulu489 " <tulu489 wrote: > > For the last one and half years I have pain in my ankles. It started > with the right ankle. First a small painful black patch on the heel > then the pain gradually advanced to ankle. After about one month the > other ankle was also affected. I have pain all the time, in the morning > it is worse. Sitting for long time makes ankle stiff. Blood work does > not point to arthritis. I tried some Ayurvedic arthritis med but no > improvement. For about two months I took TCM treatment from a > practisioner who had helped me with my other health conditions in the > past. TCM treatment too did not help. Because of this pain I am unable > to walk properly. > > Any help, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > Thanks. > > Atul > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Victoria, Thanks for your detailed thoughtful response. To start with spot was reddish then it became brown and finally became dark. On both the heels on the inner side. Size was that of a quarter. I have been off and on using either heat pad or soaking feet in lukewarm water. For about two months I regularly massaged my legs including ankles using either sesame oil or mustard oil or a 50-50 mixture. The spots have lost much of their darkness but pain remains. Sometimes I feel the ankles to be very tight and deep shooting pain. Walking becomes difficult if was sitting for a long time. First 20-30 steps are difficult. I never had fever related to my heel pain. It only looked dark, no blister or rough skin. I doubt it is arthritis. Last year in the last week of September I was in Vancouver, Canada. Pain shot up, I had problem in walking. Then I suspected it to be arthritis. I reasoned that since I was living in southern california pain was in control but cold and humidity of Vancouver made it worse. But now I have moved to a place near Memphis. This place is lot more humid but my pain level does not show any worsening. I suffered for a long time from health problems related to damp heat. But TCM treatment for over two years, Yoga and chi kung, changes in food has made considerable improvement to my damp heat conditon. For the last one week I am applying Peanut oil to ankles and heels hoping that if pain has anything to do with arthritis or muscles, I should see some improvements. I will try it for one more week before I can say anything about it's effects. I hope these additional details may provide some more clues to the cause of pain. Kind regards. Atul victoria_dragon <victoria_dragon wrote: Please describe the black spot on the heel. Was it like an ulcer with a black crust (called a " tache noire " ), or was it more like a bruise or was it like a blood blister? " Tache noire " is French for " black spot " . This sometimes appears when a person has been bitten by a tick. Ticks spread rickettsial disease, and some of those do have arthritis-like pain as a symptom. For example, arthritis-like pain is fairly common in Isael Spotted Fever. BUT, chances are if it is a reckettsial disease, pain in the ankle would have been among the least of your concerns. Symptoms of rickettsial diseases also include headache, fever, and rash. Also you said the pain spread to the other ankle after about one month. It's not likely that the pain would have skipped other joints. (Blood work for rheumatoid arthritis would be negative for some of the reckettsial diseases that can result in arthritis-like pain. Bone spurs are a possibility. They can arise from several causes. One of these being over-doing physically, especially too much running. Do you jog or play sports that involve a lot of running and jumping on hard pavement? Once the bone spur is created, it can throw alignment of the foot off, and the ankle can end up hurting more than the heel. In time the alignment in the other foot can be thrown off because of the favoring of the injured foot, and the other ankle starts to hurt. Did they x-ray you for the possibility of bone spurs. Chinese Traditional Medicine , " tulu489 " <tulu489 wrote: > > For the last one and half years I have pain in my ankles. It started > with the right ankle. First a small painful black patch on the heel > then the pain gradually advanced to ankle. After about one month the > other ankle was also affected. I have pain all the time, in the morning > it is worse. Sitting for long time makes ankle stiff. Blood work does > not point to arthritis. I tried some Ayurvedic arthritis med but no > improvement. For about two months I took TCM treatment from a > practisioner who had helped me with my other health conditions in the > past. TCM treatment too did not help. Because of this pain I am unable > to walk properly. > > Any help, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > Thanks. > > Atul > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 For someone who isn't as familiar with TCM as some of the other posters, you sure have a very good grasp of the underlying basics. (grin) Once those underlying concepts are grasped, it's far easier to pick up the particulars. I'm glad your mother got help. In the future she's going to be more inclined to consult the TCM healer for health problems. The day will come when instead of your suggesting the TCM healer, she'll bring it up before you do. Chinese Traditional Medicine , Judy Wilkins <isomorphix wrote: > > Atul, I've read your posts & Jack's responses & wish to add an idea. I'm not > as familiar with TCM as some other posters are but perhaps a different TCM > doctor may make a difference. If your current one is focusing on your ankle > pain simply being arthritis & treating it that way, it may be the reason > you're not finding relief. You say it started with a small black patch on > your heel. I don't know how that relates to the pain but it may be > significant & help a TCM doctor figure out your problem. Herbal teas may not > be enough. Not all types or causes of arthritis are the same & so treatments > may vary. > > I'm mentioning this because I was finally able to convince my 84 year old > mother to see my TCM doctor. Her ankle & heel had pained her for quite some > time & the ankle had become swollen for the last four months. She found no > relief whatsoever from her ordinary doctor or medications. My TCM doctor > looked at it, also checking her pulse & examining her tongue. She prescribed > a paste of herbal mixtures (I could smell & see one was turmeric) to apply > for 6 consecutive days. The salve was covered over with a plastic wrap & left > on for 10 hours each evening & through the night. > > My mother was very skeptical but trusts me. After the 2nd day, the pain had > lessened considerably. By the 5th day, it was gone completely & the ankle > looked normal. The problem has not returned. My TCM doctor said that in > certain conditions, herbs applied directly to where the problem area is far > more effective than herbs taken internally. My mother was astounded that > putting something on her ankle could affect such improvement so quickly. > > Perhaps a different method of taking these herbs, or even a different > combination of herbs may do more good. Is there another TCM doctor in your > area you can see? Just like regular western doctors, not all TCM doctors are > equally good or knowledgeable about all conditions. > > Judy > > On Saturday 14 October 2006 11:21 am, tulu489 wrote: > > For the last one and half years I have pain in my ankles. It started > > with the right ankle. First a small painful black patch on the heel > > then the pain gradually advanced to ankle. After about one month the > > other ankle was also affected. I have pain all the time, in the morning > > it is worse. Sitting for long time makes ankle stiff. Blood work does > > not point to arthritis. I tried some Ayurvedic arthritis med but no > > improvement. For about two months I took TCM treatment from a > > practisioner who had helped me with my other health conditions in the > > past. TCM treatment too did not help. Because of this pain I am unable > > to walk properly. > > > > Any help, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks. > > > > Atul > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 The fact that the black spots are bilateral could be significant. (In TCM, sometimes something being on one side only or on both sides can be significant.) From what you describe, it sounds like the areas may possibly be on the Kidney meridian. I want you to go to http://www.acuxo.com/ and click on " meridians " on the menu on the left, and then click on " Kidney " on the menu on the left. Look at the map of the Kidney meridian, and tell me if it looks like the spot could be somewhere on the flow of the Kidney meridian. Any time there is discoloration, pain, heat, cold, a change in skin texture, etc. along the course of a meridian, imbalance in the meridian needs to be considered and ruled in or ruled out. Giovanni Maciocia writes, " Pain in the ankle is usually due to invasion of Damp-Cold and to local stagnation of Qi from over-use of the joint. " (The Practice of , p. 603.) He recommends working Spleen-5 for ankle pain. You can find the location of Spleen-5 by clicking on the Spleen meridian on the menu. Would you say that applications of heat have helped the problem? I don't know very much about the external application of TCM healing substances. One thing you may want to try for possible Blood Stasis is a salt and apple cidar vinegar pack to the area. It's real easy to make. Just pour some salt onto a washcloth and wet it with apple cidar vinegar. It's important that you use apple cidar vinegar. Fold the washcloth so the salt won't fall out, and place over the area. You can secure it with an ace bandage and leave on for several hours. If you start to feel worse, remove the pack immediately. If you note improvement, do the treatment again. In my experience it works quicker on new Blood Stasis than on old. Have your feet ever been x-rayed to rule out any structural problem? Chinese Traditional Medicine , tulu 489 <tulu489 wrote: > > Victoria, > Thanks for your detailed thoughtful response. > To start with spot was reddish then it became brown and finally became dark. On both the heels on the inner side. Size was that of a quarter. > I have been off and on using either heat pad or soaking feet in lukewarm water. For about two months I regularly massaged my legs including ankles using either sesame oil or mustard oil or a 50-50 mixture. The spots have lost much of their darkness but pain remains. Sometimes I feel the ankles to be very tight and deep shooting pain. Walking becomes difficult if was sitting for a long time. First 20-30 steps are difficult. I never had fever related to my heel pain. It only looked dark, no blister or rough skin. > > I doubt it is arthritis. Last year in the last week of September I was in Vancouver, Canada. Pain shot up, I had problem in walking. Then I suspected it to be arthritis. I reasoned that since I was living in southern california pain was in control but cold and humidity of Vancouver made it worse. But now I have moved to a place near Memphis. This place is lot more humid but my pain level does not show any worsening. > I suffered for a long time from health problems related to damp heat. But TCM treatment for over two years, Yoga and chi kung, changes in food has made considerable improvement to my damp heat conditon. > > For the last one week I am applying Peanut oil to ankles and heels hoping that if pain has anything to do with arthritis or muscles, I should see some improvements. > I will try it for one more week before I can say anything about it's effects. > I hope these additional details may provide some more clues to the cause of pain. > > Kind regards. > > Atul > > victoria_dragon <victoria_dragon wrote: > Please describe the black spot on the heel. Was it like an ulcer > with a black crust (called a " tache noire " ), or was it more like a > bruise or was it like a blood blister? > > " Tache noire " is French for " black spot " . This sometimes appears > when a person has been bitten by a tick. Ticks spread rickettsial > disease, and some of those do have arthritis-like pain as a symptom. > For example, arthritis-like pain is fairly common in Isael Spotted > Fever. BUT, chances are if it is a reckettsial disease, pain in the > ankle would have been among the least of your concerns. Symptoms of > rickettsial diseases also include headache, fever, and rash. Also > you said the pain spread to the other ankle after about one month. > It's not likely that the pain would have skipped other joints. > (Blood work for rheumatoid arthritis would be negative for some of > the reckettsial diseases that can result in arthritis-like pain. > > Bone spurs are a possibility. They can arise from several causes. > One of these being over-doing physically, especially too much > running. Do you jog or play sports that involve a lot of running > and jumping on hard pavement? Once the bone spur is created, it can > throw alignment of the foot off, and the ankle can end up hurting > more than the heel. In time the alignment in the other foot can be > thrown off because of the favoring of the injured foot, and the > other ankle starts to hurt. Did they x-ray you for the possibility > of bone spurs. > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " tulu489 " <tulu489@> wrote: > > > > For the last one and half years I have pain in my ankles. It > started > > with the right ankle. First a small painful black patch on the > heel > > then the pain gradually advanced to ankle. After about one month > the > > other ankle was also affected. I have pain all the time, in the > morning > > it is worse. Sitting for long time makes ankle stiff. Blood work > does > > not point to arthritis. I tried some Ayurvedic arthritis med but > no > > improvement. For about two months I took TCM treatment from a > > practisioner who had helped me with my other health conditions in > the > > past. TCM treatment too did not help. Because of this pain I am > unable > > to walk properly. > > > > Any help, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks. > > > > Atul > > > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Thank you for the kind comments, Victoria. But I really do feel I don't have a grasp yet. My comments were just common sense that could be applied to anything. I know I'll eventually feel like I understand TCM better one day. There's SO much to learn & because I don't learn well in a linear fashion but more as weaving the knowledge I get into a pattern, it will take a while. My knowledge & wisdom with biology, plants, & horticultural topics is pretty extensive but I built on that knowledge over many years & continue building. I wish I could say my mom would be more inclined but she's elderly & very set in her ways. She's extremely forgetful & doesn't seem to learn new things or able to remember them any more. Even things she's done for years, she still phones me to ask me if it's good to do. :-( Judy On Wednesday 18 October 2006 7:54 am, victoria_dragon wrote: > For someone who isn't as familiar with TCM as some of the other > posters, you sure have a very good grasp of the underlying basics. > (grin) Once those underlying concepts are grasped, it's far easier > to pick up the particulars. > > I'm glad your mother got help. In the future she's going to be more > inclined to consult the TCM healer for health problems. The day will > come when instead of your suggesting the TCM healer, she'll bring it > up before you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 You fit well with TCM because it is common sense too. There used to be a lot more common sense in allopathic medicine than there is today. Allopathic medicine has declined in part because of the shunting aside of common sense in favor of expensive lab tests, drugs, and procedures. Not that those things don't have their places. The problem is that some things which should have been kept along with the medical breakthroughs were disgarded in order to remove medicine further from lay people and increase its price. Very often people with CFIDS (PWCs) are helped more by things our great grandparents would have done than by anything modern. Things like paying attention to diet, getting enough rest, drinking enough water, having regular bowel movements, staying warm enough, getting fresh air, etc. There have been some times in my life when I was helped by nurses when doctors were little or no help. Because nurses aren't allowed to prescribe drugs, many of them pay more attention to basic, common sense things than many doctors do today. Doctors used to be trained to pay attention to those things too, but it's rare for them to be trained in these things today. One very big advantage that the Chinese have had over the centuries is that overall they are not either/or in their thinking. They are not looking for one True thing that will render all others obsolete or worthless. They build upon the past instead of tossing it out. When something comes along that doesn't fit their existing paradigm, they don't toss the old view of what's possible in reality and how things work. Instead they expand the existing paradigm to include the new things. When the Chinese started to encounter infectious diseases that didn't fit the 6 Stages of Cold-Induced Illnesses model and they came up with the 4 Levels of Virulent Heat Evils to explain and treat those disorders, they didn't toss the 6 Stages model as obsolete. They wisely kept it because many conditions do fit this model and are best treated by it even today. Over the years I've learned to be very, very, very leery of the phase " New and Improved " . Chinese Traditional Medicine , Judy Wilkins <isomorphix wrote: > > Thank you for the kind comments, Victoria. But I really do feel I don't have a > grasp yet. My comments were just common sense that could be applied to > anything. I know I'll eventually feel like I understand TCM better one day. > There's SO much to learn & because I don't learn well in a linear fashion but > more as weaving the knowledge I get into a pattern, it will take a while. My > knowledge & wisdom with biology, plants, & horticultural topics is pretty > extensive but I built on that knowledge over many years & continue building. > > I wish I could say my mom would be more inclined but she's elderly & very set > in her ways. She's extremely forgetful & doesn't seem to learn new things or > able to remember them any more. Even things she's done for years, she still > phones me to ask me if it's good to do. :-( > > Judy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 I tried apple cider vinegar and salt pack. I used it before going to bed. Immediatly after application it appeared to relax the whole area and reduce pain. But in the morning pain and stiffnes both increased and it continues to be like that. I did not try it for a second time. Does it point to something? Regards. Atul victoria_dragon <victoria_dragon wrote: The fact that the black spots are bilateral could be significant. (In TCM, sometimes something being on one side only or on both sides can be significant.) From what you describe, it sounds like the areas may possibly be on the Kidney meridian. I want you to go to http://www.acuxo.com/ and click on " meridians " on the menu on the left, and then click on " Kidney " on the menu on the left. Look at the map of the Kidney meridian, and tell me if it looks like the spot could be somewhere on the flow of the Kidney meridian. Any time there is discoloration, pain, heat, cold, a change in skin texture, etc. along the course of a meridian, imbalance in the meridian needs to be considered and ruled in or ruled out. Giovanni Maciocia writes, " Pain in the ankle is usually due to invasion of Damp-Cold and to local stagnation of Qi from over-use of the joint. " (The Practice of , p. 603.) He recommends working Spleen-5 for ankle pain. You can find the location of Spleen-5 by clicking on the Spleen meridian on the menu. Would you say that applications of heat have helped the problem? I don't know very much about the external application of TCM healing substances. One thing you may want to try for possible Blood Stasis is a salt and apple cidar vinegar pack to the area. It's real easy to make. Just pour some salt onto a washcloth and wet it with apple cidar vinegar. It's important that you use apple cidar vinegar. Fold the washcloth so the salt won't fall out, and place over the area. You can secure it with an ace bandage and leave on for several hours. If you start to feel worse, remove the pack immediately. If you note improvement, do the treatment again. In my experience it works quicker on new Blood Stasis than on old. Have your feet ever been x-rayed to rule out any structural problem? Chinese Traditional Medicine , tulu 489 <tulu489 wrote: > > Victoria, > Thanks for your detailed thoughtful response. > To start with spot was reddish then it became brown and finally became dark. On both the heels on the inner side. Size was that of a quarter. > I have been off and on using either heat pad or soaking feet in lukewarm water. For about two months I regularly massaged my legs including ankles using either sesame oil or mustard oil or a 50-50 mixture. The spots have lost much of their darkness but pain remains. Sometimes I feel the ankles to be very tight and deep shooting pain. Walking becomes difficult if was sitting for a long time. First 20-30 steps are difficult. I never had fever related to my heel pain. It only looked dark, no blister or rough skin. > > I doubt it is arthritis. Last year in the last week of September I was in Vancouver, Canada. Pain shot up, I had problem in walking. Then I suspected it to be arthritis. I reasoned that since I was living in southern california pain was in control but cold and humidity of Vancouver made it worse. But now I have moved to a place near Memphis. This place is lot more humid but my pain level does not show any worsening. > I suffered for a long time from health problems related to damp heat. But TCM treatment for over two years, Yoga and chi kung, changes in food has made considerable improvement to my damp heat conditon. > > For the last one week I am applying Peanut oil to ankles and heels hoping that if pain has anything to do with arthritis or muscles, I should see some improvements. > I will try it for one more week before I can say anything about it's effects. > I hope these additional details may provide some more clues to the cause of pain. > > Kind regards. > > Atul > > victoria_dragon <victoria_dragon wrote: > Please describe the black spot on the heel. Was it like an ulcer > with a black crust (called a " tache noire " ), or was it more like a > bruise or was it like a blood blister? > > " Tache noire " is French for " black spot " . This sometimes appears > when a person has been bitten by a tick. Ticks spread rickettsial > disease, and some of those do have arthritis-like pain as a symptom. > For example, arthritis-like pain is fairly common in Isael Spotted > Fever. BUT, chances are if it is a reckettsial disease, pain in the > ankle would have been among the least of your concerns. Symptoms of > rickettsial diseases also include headache, fever, and rash. Also > you said the pain spread to the other ankle after about one month. > It's not likely that the pain would have skipped other joints. > (Blood work for rheumatoid arthritis would be negative for some of > the reckettsial diseases that can result in arthritis-like pain. > > Bone spurs are a possibility. They can arise from several causes. > One of these being over-doing physically, especially too much > running. Do you jog or play sports that involve a lot of running > and jumping on hard pavement? Once the bone spur is created, it can > throw alignment of the foot off, and the ankle can end up hurting > more than the heel. In time the alignment in the other foot can be > thrown off because of the favoring of the injured foot, and the > other ankle starts to hurt. Did they x-ray you for the possibility > of bone spurs. > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " tulu489 " <tulu489@> wrote: > > > > For the last one and half years I have pain in my ankles. It > started > > with the right ankle. First a small painful black patch on the > heel > > then the pain gradually advanced to ankle. After about one month > the > > other ankle was also affected. I have pain all the time, in the > morning > > it is worse. Sitting for long time makes ankle stiff. Blood work > does > > not point to arthritis. I tried some Ayurvedic arthritis med but > no > > improvement. For about two months I took TCM treatment from a > > practisioner who had helped me with my other health conditions in > the > > past. TCM treatment too did not help. Because of this pain I am > unable > > to walk properly. > > > > Any help, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks. > > > > Atul > > > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Atul, if you found the cider vinegar & salt pack helped, as Victoria suggested, I'd continue it every day for a number of days. It's a rarity that something is healed for one time application. Even western medicine realises that antibiotics need to be taken for a " course " of treatment. I'd suggest giving the vinegar-salt pack a short trial for maybe 4 days to see if improvement shows & doesn't immediately reverse like the first time. Have you checked out the site Victoria gave <http://www.acuxo.com/> to see if the black areas were on the kidney meridian? Have you tried some acupressure along the meridian to see if it helps with the pain? Is there certain times of the day that the ankle pain is worse than other times? The time may have significance too but I don't know enough to say what it would mean. But it's worth noting & letting your TCM doctor know if there's a cyclic pattern to the pain or if it's worse after certain times or activities. My TCM doctor insists that one who has kidney yin deficiency (Victoria can explain this in better terms than I do) should keep their feet warm & not go barefoot, especially when weather is cooler & ground or floor isn't warm now. For me, that's hard as I love being barefoot but I'm listening & obeying. Keep your feet warm at ALL times, not just by soaking them in warm water now & then. Don't wear cotton or synthetic socks which do little to keep feet warm. Buy GOOD soft wool socks that breathe & will wick moisture away from the skin. They don't irritate the skin. I can't wear wool next to my skin, no matter how soft, except on my feet & it has to be good wool. Wear socks to bed too. The Kidney-1 point (Bubbling Spring) is on the sole of your feet. The site Victoria gave mentions leg paralysis being helped at this point. I've been slowly studying & trying to absorb information (so it starts to form a pattern of knowledge - not at that point yet) from the site Victoria mentioned. I found it long ago but had trouble making much sense from it before. From my limited experience, I've found that kidney & liver imbalances sometimes accompany each other. In looking over the site with diagrams, I noticed that Liver-3 (Great Surge) point is one for ankle conditions & foot cold. Check to see if this point is tender for you. So far, I've noted that all the points that receive acupuncture for me are points that are tender if I press them or work them myself. http://www.acuxo.com/meridianPictures.asp?point=LR3 & meridian=Liver I hope some of this helps your pain & your walking improves. Judy On Monday 23 October 2006 8:27 pm, tulu 489 wrote: > I tried apple cider vinegar and salt pack. I used it before going to bed. > Immediatly after application it appeared to relax the whole area and reduce > pain. But in the morning pain and stiffnes both increased and it continues > to be like that. I did not try it for a second time. Does it point to > something? > > Regards. > > Atul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 The fact that you got such quick results in relaxation and relieving pain is a very positive sign. BUT, I'm concerned that the stiffness and pain were worse in the morning. Often when something appears to stop working and sometimes when there's a rebound reaction, it's a sign that something else is needed. I have some concerns about the possibility of Blood Deficiency. Someone who can see you in person needs to rule that in or out. Very often when pain and stiffness are worse in the morning, it's an indication of Blood Deficiency. The concept of Blood Deficiency often is hard for many Westerners to understand simply because so many of us know what anemia is. The concept of Blood Deficiency isn't restricted to cases of anemia. The basic Western blood tests can be normal, but according to TCM definitions and criteria, there is Blood Deficiency. Indeed, in a few cases the person may even have too many red blood cells but still suffers from Blood Deficiency. Like so much in TCM, Blood is defined in terms of its functions. Two of the most important functions of Blood is that it nourishes and moistens the tissues. If Blood is failing to do that, the person suffers from Blood Deficiency. Blood Deficiency can be systemic (affecting the entire body), or it can be localized (like in cases of localized Blood Stasis due to trauma or some other cause like Cold, Damp, etc. blocking the Blood from properly getting to the tissues). Blood Stasis can engender localized Blood Deficiency, but if it goes on long enough, Blood Deficiency can engender Blood Stasis. A good analogy is that water in a stream full of water will flow faster and easier than water in a stream that has little water in it. When the water becomes very low in the stream, what little there is will start to pool and not flow at all. Something similar happens in the case of Blood. When a person sleeps, Blood collects in the Liver where it is cleansed and " recharged " . Please keep in mind that the TCM concept of the Liver is not restricted to the anatomical liver. During sleep Blood is diverted from the muscles and outer part of the body to the Liver. In a person who has sufficient Blood, this is not a problem because there is enough that the muscles and outer tissues still get nourished and moistened. But in a person who is Blood Deficient, there's not enough Blood to properly nourish and moisten. Hence, the Blood Stasis and the pain and stiffness. These are cases where the herbs that move Blood (relieve Blood Stasis) are not going to be enough. The Blood Deficiency problem also needs to be addressed. This is speculation on my part and why you need to see a trained TCM healer who can examine you in person to rule in or rule out Blood Deficiency. Another question that will need to be answered is why the pain and stiffness not only returned but was worse than before. I need to know the details of how long you left the pack on. Was it just a few hours or did you leave it on overnight? The time that one applies the pack may be important in a few cases. (More about this in another post.) I want to remind readers that magnesium deficiency also can manifest as pain and stiffness. Muscles need Mg in order to relax properly. If muscles stay overly contracted this will result in pain, stiffness, weakness, and fatigue. Sensitivity to cold also can cause muscles to stay overly contracted with the same results. When Cold is a factor one needs to consider and rule in or rule out Exterior Invasion by Cold and/or Kidney Yang Deficiency. Heating pads by themselves is not going to be enough (though they can help). Something else is needed. (Note for the students: Yin Deficiency can manifest as a lowered pain threshold.) One of the things that salt does from a TCM standpoint is that it dissolves accumulations. Chinese Traditional Medicine , tulu 489 <tulu489 wrote: > > I tried apple cider vinegar and salt pack. I used it before going to bed. Immediatly after application it appeared to relax the whole area and reduce pain. But in the morning pain and stiffnes both increased and it continues to be like that. I did not try it for a second time. Does it point to something? > > Regards. > > Atul > > victoria_dragon <victoria_dragon wrote: > The fact that the black spots are bilateral could be significant. > (In TCM, sometimes something being on one side only or on both sides > can be significant.) > > From what you describe, it sounds like the areas may possibly be on > the Kidney meridian. I want you to go to http://www.acuxo.com/ and > click on " meridians " on the menu on the left, and then click > on " Kidney " on the menu on the left. Look at the map of the Kidney > meridian, and tell me if it looks like the spot could be somewhere > on the flow of the Kidney meridian. Any time there is discoloration, > pain, heat, cold, a change in skin texture, etc. along the course of > a meridian, imbalance in the meridian needs to be considered and > ruled in or ruled out. > > Giovanni Maciocia writes, " Pain in the ankle is usually due to > invasion of Damp-Cold and to local stagnation of Qi from over-use of > the joint. " (The Practice of , p. 603.) He > recommends working Spleen-5 for ankle pain. You can find the > location of Spleen-5 by clicking on the Spleen meridian on the menu. > > Would you say that applications of heat have helped the problem? > > I don't know very much about the external application of TCM healing > substances. One thing you may want to try for possible Blood Stasis > is a salt and apple cidar vinegar pack to the area. It's real easy > to make. Just pour some salt onto a washcloth and wet it with apple > cidar vinegar. It's important that you use apple cidar vinegar. > Fold the washcloth so the salt won't fall out, and place over the > area. You can secure it with an ace bandage and leave on for several > hours. If you start to feel worse, remove the pack immediately. If > you note improvement, do the treatment again. In my experience it > works quicker on new Blood Stasis than on old. > > Have your feet ever been x-rayed to rule out any structural problem? > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , tulu 489 <tulu489@> wrote: > > > > Victoria, > > Thanks for your detailed thoughtful response. > > To start with spot was reddish then it became brown and finally > became dark. On both the heels on the inner side. Size was that of a > quarter. > > I have been off and on using either heat pad or soaking feet in > lukewarm water. For about two months I regularly massaged my legs > including ankles using either sesame oil or mustard oil or a 50-50 > mixture. The spots have lost much of their darkness but pain > remains. Sometimes I feel the ankles to be very tight and deep > shooting pain. Walking becomes difficult if was sitting for a long > time. First 20-30 steps are difficult. I never had fever related to > my heel pain. It only looked dark, no blister or rough skin. > > > > I doubt it is arthritis. Last year in the last week of September > I was in Vancouver, Canada. Pain shot up, I had problem in walking. > Then I suspected it to be arthritis. I reasoned that since I was > living in southern california pain was in control but cold and > humidity of Vancouver made it worse. But now I have moved to a place > near Memphis. This place is lot more humid but my pain level does > not show any worsening. > > I suffered for a long time from health problems related to damp > heat. But TCM treatment for over two years, Yoga and chi kung, > changes in food has made considerable improvement to my damp heat > conditon. > > > > For the last one week I am applying Peanut oil to ankles and > heels hoping that if pain has anything to do with arthritis or > muscles, I should see some improvements. > > I will try it for one more week before I can say anything about > it's effects. > > I hope these additional details may provide some more clues to > the cause of pain. > > > > Kind regards. > > > > Atul > > > > victoria_dragon <victoria_dragon@> wrote: > > Please describe the black spot on the heel. Was it like > an ulcer > > with a black crust (called a " tache noire " ), or was it more like a > > bruise or was it like a blood blister? > > > > " Tache noire " is French for " black spot " . This sometimes appears > > when a person has been bitten by a tick. Ticks spread rickettsial > > disease, and some of those do have arthritis-like pain as a > symptom. > > For example, arthritis-like pain is fairly common in Isael Spotted > > Fever. BUT, chances are if it is a reckettsial disease, pain in > the > > ankle would have been among the least of your concerns. Symptoms > of > > rickettsial diseases also include headache, fever, and rash. Also > > you said the pain spread to the other ankle after about one month. > > It's not likely that the pain would have skipped other joints. > > (Blood work for rheumatoid arthritis would be negative for some of > > the reckettsial diseases that can result in arthritis-like pain. > > > > Bone spurs are a possibility. They can arise from several causes. > > One of these being over-doing physically, especially too much > > running. Do you jog or play sports that involve a lot of running > > and jumping on hard pavement? Once the bone spur is created, it > can > > throw alignment of the foot off, and the ankle can end up hurting > > more than the heel. In time the alignment in the other foot can be > > thrown off because of the favoring of the injured foot, and the > > other ankle starts to hurt. Did they x-ray you for the possibility > > of bone spurs. > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " tulu489 " <tulu489@> wrote: > > > > > > For the last one and half years I have pain in my ankles. It > > started > > > with the right ankle. First a small painful black patch on the > > heel > > > then the pain gradually advanced to ankle. After about one month > > the > > > other ankle was also affected. I have pain all the time, in the > > morning > > > it is worse. Sitting for long time makes ankle stiff. Blood work > > does > > > not point to arthritis. I tried some Ayurvedic arthritis med but > > no > > > improvement. For about two months I took TCM treatment from a > > > practisioner who had helped me with my other health conditions > in > > the > > > past. TCM treatment too did not help. Because of this pain I am > > unable > > > to walk properly. > > > > > > Any help, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Atul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. > Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 30, 2006 Report Share Posted October 30, 2006 Chinese Traditional Medicine , Judy Wilkins <isomorphix wrote: > > It's a rarity that > something is healed for one time application. Even western medicine realises > that antibiotics need to be taken for a " course " of treatment. In the West - especially in the US - we frequently forget that sometimes healing is a matter of patient persistence and searching. Conditions that respond instantly or within a few days to treatment are a minority. Unfortunately we've grown to expect every medical condition to respond this way and are disappointed and disheartened when they don't. It's sometimes hard not to lose hope when one is sick and the condition is not improving as quickly or as dramatically as one would wish. Voice of experience with CFIDS here. > Have you checked out the site > http://www.acuxo.com/ to see if > the black areas were on the kidney meridian? Have you tried some acupressure > along the meridian to see if it helps with the pain? Since new members constantly are joining the list, and some of the new members are beginning TCM students or people new to TCM, I repeat a lot of info. Any time there is anything unusual along part of the course of a meridian or an acupoint is sore, it needs to be investigated. " Unusual " can mean discoloration of the skin (reddish, blackish, greenish, etc.), a feeling of hot or cold, rough and scaly skin, unusually rigid or flacid muscles, etc. A classic example is how allopathic doctors in the US observed that some migraine sufferers will experience a cold hand prior to a migraine on that side and that if the hand is warmed up the migraine will be prevented. They didn't know about meridians and thus didn't understand what was happening or why, but they observed it and used the information. Because they observed the connection they were able to come up with something that at least helped some: Warm the hand and prevent the migraine. Any of those observant doctors who since have learned about meridians and TCM have gone on to discover even more effective use of the information and treatment of migraines due to Wind Cold Invasion. > Is there certain times > of the day that the ankle pain is worse than other times? Time of day can be diagnostic in TCM. One classic example is to suspect and rule in or rule out Lung imbalance if the person frequently awakens during the time between 3am and 5 am. This is the time during which the Lung meridian has the maximum energy. If a person tends to have bad dreams during the time between 5am and 7am, suspect the possibility of Large Intestine imbalance. Especially if there is symbolism of a series of 90-degree turns and/or decay and putridness. It doesn't happen very often, but sometimes the time of the treatment can be critical and make the difference between successful treatment and treatment that falls short of success. " A general rule of thumb handed down by tradition is that when treating a patient in accordance with this biorhythm, the best time to treat an excess of energy is at or shortly before the time of greatest meridian activity, while the best time to treat depleted energy is following the peak. " (The Layman's Guide to Acupuncture, Yoshio Manaka, M.D. and Ian A. Urquhart, Ph.D., p. 78.) The time of greatest energy flow in the Kidney meridian is between 5pm and 7pm. The Liver is between 1am and 3am, and the Gall Bladder between 11pm and 1am. This is part of why it can be important that people with Liver imbalance get to bed before midnight. > My TCM doctor insists that one who has kidney yin deficiency (Victoria can > explain this in better terms than I do) should keep their feet warm & not go > barefoot, especially when weather is cooler & ground or floor isn't warm now. > For me, that's hard as I love being barefoot but I'm listening & obeying. It's also critical for people with Kidney Yang Deficiency. BTW, thanks for the info on the wool socks. I need to get some and try them out. I've been using regular socks. I have noticed that when I use heating pads (the microwaveable ones) on my feet, my sleep is deeper and more restorative than when I don't. I wake up less often. I don't know how this would work for someone who is primarily Kidney Yin Deficient. I usually don't use the heating pads during the summer, and when I do during that period I don't heat them very much. Each of the Organs is especially vulnerable to one or more " Pernicious Evils " (Heat, Cold, Wind, Dryness, Damp). The Kidneys are the most vulnearable to Cold. When a person stays or gets too Cold, the Kidneys are weakened. Since the Kidneys supply the Yin and Yang to the rest of the body, weakened Kidneys are less able to supply enough Yin and Yang to the rest of the body. The Spleen also is weakened by Cold though Dampness is what weakens the Spleen the most. > The Kidney-1 point (Bubbling Spring) is on the sole of your feet. Kidney-1 is one of the points that can be an early warning point. When it is sore it can be an indication that the person needs more rest. It's certainly an indication that there is Kidney weakness and the Kidneys need to be built up and strengthened. In some cases soreness of this point indicates that the person is more vulnerable to catching a cold or some other infection. For the list members who are new to TCM, the word " Kidney " is capitalized because the Kidneys are not equivalent to the anatomical kidneys. TCM Organs are collections of functions and more aptly could be described as Systems than Organs. The Kidneys contain many of the functions of the adrenal glands. When one realizes that the Kidneys play vital roles in immune response, it's easy to see why soreness of the Kidney-1 point can be an early warning sign of vulnerability to infection in some people. > I've found that kidney & liver imbalances > sometimes accompany each other. The Kidneys supply the Yang and the Yin to the rest of the body. BUT, there is a special relationship between the Kidneys and the Liver. In 5 Element Theory, the Kidneys are recognized as the " Mother " of the Liver (which is the " Son " ). The Mother-Son rule states that whatever is done to the Mother will have the same effect on the Son. If the Mother is tonified, the Son automatically will be. If the Mother is sedated, the Son automatically will be sedated also. The Mother-Son relationship is one of the things that gives TCM healers more flexibility in healing and allows them to come up with the best possible and most effective approach. The majority of cases of Liver Yin Deficiency (and the subsequent Liver Yang Rising cases) will be due to Kidney Yin Deficiency. If the Kidneys don't have enough Yin to supply, the Liver isn't going to get what it needs. If the healer only tonifies Liver Yin in these cases, the healer is going to have to keep tonifying the Liver Yin because the Kidneys still don't have the Yin to supply. But if the healer tonifies the Kidney Yin (and thus also strengthens the Kidneys), the Yin automatically is going to get passed onto the Liver. In time the Kidneys may be strengthened to where they can supply adequate Yin. Because of that Mother-Son relationship, if the Kidneys are Yin Deficient, the Liver is the most apt of the Organs to get short- changed in Yin. Sometimes - depending on the clinical picture - the healer will tonify both the Liver and the Kidneys at the same time. Often the healer will only tonify the Kidneys. Especially if direct tonification of the Liver may aggravate other Liver imbalances or other imbalances the person has. Sometimes the person may have " knotty " (complex) problems. There are multiple Organ imbalances. For example, directly tonifying the Liver could cause the Liver (Wood) to over-act on and suppress the Spleen (Earth). If the Spleen is already weak, this is very probable. The symptoms of Liver Invading Spleen become more pronounced. But if you tonify the Mother (the Kidneys - Water) and thus automatically tonify the Liver, you don't weaken the Spleen further. For the people on the list who are new to TCM and for the beginning TCM students: Don't worry about understanding or even remembering all this Mother-Son and 5 Element stuff at first. What's important at this point is to realize that TCM healers have a great deal of flexibility when it comes to treatment. There are a number of ways they can finetune treatment so that imbalances can be corrected without aggravating other imbalances. > In looking over the site with diagrams, I > noticed that Liver-3 (Great Surge) point is one for ankle conditions & foot > cold. Check to see if this point is tender for you. So far, I've noted that > all the points that receive acupuncture for me are points that are tender if > I press them or work them myself. > http://www.acuxo.com/meridianPictures.asp?point=LR3 & meridian=Liver When acupoints are painful, it does give a person an advantage in doing self-accupressure. There's no problem finding the points. This can be especially important in those few people where the points aren't exactly where they usually are. BTW, Metal (the Lungs) is the Mother of Water (the Kidneys). For the students on the list: Since there is the possibility of Blood Defiency (it hasn't been ruled in or ruled out yet) and the possibility of Kidney imbalance (which also hasn't been ruled in or out at this point), it's important to keep in mind that the Kidneys along with the Spleen play a major role in the production of Blood. What usually gets mentioned and written about is the vital role of the Spleen in producing Blood (and Qi). But it's important to remember that the Kidneys also play a major role in the production of Blood. When you start your training in the clinic, you'll run into cases where the person is Blood Deficient but the Spleen is not Deficient. Or you'll run into cases where strengthening the Spleen only improves the Blood Deficiency some or not at all. These may be cases where the problem is in the Kidneys. The Heart also plays a major role in the production of Blood. " There are three viscera which participate in the creation of the blood. These are the kidneys, spleen, and heart. The heart is the place where the blood is 'turned red' or finally created. However, first the spleen must send up the finest esence of food and liquids extracted in the process of digestion. If the spleen does not send up this finest essence of food and liquids there will be insufficient supplies for the heart to transform these into blood. In addition, the kidneys must send up some essence to also participate in the creation of blood. Once can think of this as somewhat similar to adding some sourdough starter in order to make a new batch of sourdough bread. " (Curing PMS Naturally with Chinese Medicine, Bob Flaws, p. 33.) When one stops to consider that in TCM physiology the Kidneys " rule " the bones and the marrow, the connection between the Kidneys and the blood as well as the Blood begins to sound less farfetched. Certain blood cells are produced in long bones. When one starts to consider that many of the functions of various endocrine glands (not just the adreanls) are Kidney functions in TCM and that certain of the endocrine glands (especially the adrenals) play roles in things like blood volume, the connection becomes clearer. TCM and allopathic healers observed many of the same things over the centuries but organized the information differently. In the West the focus has been on specific organs and specific things and forms whereas in the East the focus has been on systems and functions and how things work together. The people who developed TCM automatically thought and think in terms of how one thing relates to another. For example, the statement that the head is Yang compared to the feet, and the feet are Yin compared to the head. The back is Yang when compared to the front of the body, and the front of the body is Yin when compared to the back. TCM doesn't always get translated or written about this way in the West, but among people who are steeped in TCM this kind of comparison thinking is automatic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Very good Victoria, I agree completely. And 'new and improved' isn't necessarily better than 'old and tested'. Marcos --- victoria_dragon <victoria_dragon escreveu: > You fit well with TCM because it is common sense too. There > used to > be a lot more common sense in allopathic medicine than there is > > today. Allopathic medicine has declined in part because of the > shunting aside of common sense in favor of expensive lab tests, > > drugs, and procedures. Not that those things don't have their > places. The problem is that some things which should have been > kept > along with the medical breakthroughs were disgarded in order to > > remove medicine further from lay people and increase its price. > > Very often people with CFIDS (PWCs) are helped more by things > our > great grandparents would have done than by anything modern. > Things > like paying attention to diet, getting enough rest, drinking > enough > water, having regular bowel movements, staying warm enough, > getting > fresh air, etc. There have been some times in my life when I > was > helped by nurses when doctors were little or no help. Because > nurses > aren't allowed to prescribe drugs, many of them pay more > attention > to basic, common sense things than many doctors do today. > Doctors > used to be trained to pay attention to those things too, but > it's > rare for them to be trained in these things today. > > One very big advantage that the Chinese have had over the > centuries > is that overall they are not either/or in their thinking. They > are > not looking for one True thing that will render all others > obsolete > or worthless. They build upon the past instead of tossing it > out. > When something comes along that doesn't fit their existing > paradigm, > they don't toss the old view of what's possible in reality and > how > things work. Instead they expand the existing paradigm to > include > the new things. When the Chinese started to encounter > infectious > diseases that didn't fit the 6 Stages of Cold-Induced Illnesses > > model and they came up with the 4 Levels of Virulent Heat Evils > to > explain and treat those disorders, they didn't toss the 6 > Stages > model as obsolete. They wisely kept it because many conditions > do > fit this model and are best treated by it even today. > > Over the years I've learned to be very, very, very leery of the > > phase " New and Improved " . > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , Judy Wilkins > <isomorphix > wrote: > > > > Thank you for the kind comments, Victoria. But I really do > feel I > don't have a > > grasp yet. My comments were just common sense that could be > applied to > > anything. I know I'll eventually feel like I understand TCM > better > one day. > > There's SO much to learn & because I don't learn well in a > linear > fashion but > > more as weaving the knowledge I get into a pattern, it will > take a > while. My > > knowledge & wisdom with biology, plants, & horticultural > topics is > pretty > > extensive but I built on that knowledge over many years & > continue > building. > > > > I wish I could say my mom would be more inclined but she's > elderly > & very set > > in her ways. She's extremely forgetful & doesn't seem to > learn new > things or > > able to remember them any more. Even things she's done for > years, > she still > > phones me to ask me if it's good to do. :-( > > > > Judy > > > > _____ Novidade no Mail: receba alertas de novas mensagens no seu celular. Registre seu aparelho agora! http://br.mobile./mailalertas/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 What are the symptoms of blood deficiency? And assuming that it is there what can I do about it? I do not have access to a TCM doctor, I am in Arkansas and there are no TCM doctors within 100 miles that I know of. For stagnation is there something milder that I can try to start with and after some time when the body is better prepared I can try apple cider vinegar. One reason for my intense pain and stiffness might have been a very small crack on the heel, salt and vinegar inside the crack caused it to open up and may be caused pain too. Though I did not use too much of salt or vinegar, just enough to wet the area. I looked at the meridian diagram, kidney meridian passes a little above the pain area. I continue to massage with oil the painful area. I am not sure if heat helps me. When the pain had started I used vaccum cupping but that gave me no relief. Regards. Atul victoria_dragon <victoria_dragon wrote: The fact that you got such quick results in relaxation and relieving pain is a very positive sign. BUT, I'm concerned that the stiffness and pain were worse in the morning. Often when something appears to stop working and sometimes when there's a rebound reaction, it's a sign that something else is needed. I have some concerns about the possibility of Blood Deficiency. Someone who can see you in person needs to rule that in or out. Very often when pain and stiffness are worse in the morning, it's an indication of Blood Deficiency. The concept of Blood Deficiency often is hard for many Westerners to understand simply because so many of us know what anemia is. The concept of Blood Deficiency isn't restricted to cases of anemia. The basic Western blood tests can be normal, but according to TCM definitions and criteria, there is Blood Deficiency. Indeed, in a few cases the person may even have too many red blood cells but still suffers from Blood Deficiency. Like so much in TCM, Blood is defined in terms of its functions. Two of the most important functions of Blood is that it nourishes and moistens the tissues. If Blood is failing to do that, the person suffers from Blood Deficiency. Blood Deficiency can be systemic (affecting the entire body), or it can be localized (like in cases of localized Blood Stasis due to trauma or some other cause like Cold, Damp, etc. blocking the Blood from properly getting to the tissues). Blood Stasis can engender localized Blood Deficiency, but if it goes on long enough, Blood Deficiency can engender Blood Stasis. A good analogy is that water in a stream full of water will flow faster and easier than water in a stream that has little water in it. When the water becomes very low in the stream, what little there is will start to pool and not flow at all. Something similar happens in the case of Blood. When a person sleeps, Blood collects in the Liver where it is cleansed and " recharged " . Please keep in mind that the TCM concept of the Liver is not restricted to the anatomical liver. During sleep Blood is diverted from the muscles and outer part of the body to the Liver. In a person who has sufficient Blood, this is not a problem because there is enough that the muscles and outer tissues still get nourished and moistened. But in a person who is Blood Deficient, there's not enough Blood to properly nourish and moisten. Hence, the Blood Stasis and the pain and stiffness. These are cases where the herbs that move Blood (relieve Blood Stasis) are not going to be enough. The Blood Deficiency problem also needs to be addressed. This is speculation on my part and why you need to see a trained TCM healer who can examine you in person to rule in or rule out Blood Deficiency. Another question that will need to be answered is why the pain and stiffness not only returned but was worse than before. I need to know the details of how long you left the pack on. Was it just a few hours or did you leave it on overnight? The time that one applies the pack may be important in a few cases. (More about this in another post.) I want to remind readers that magnesium deficiency also can manifest as pain and stiffness. Muscles need Mg in order to relax properly. If muscles stay overly contracted this will result in pain, stiffness, weakness, and fatigue. Sensitivity to cold also can cause muscles to stay overly contracted with the same results. When Cold is a factor one needs to consider and rule in or rule out Exterior Invasion by Cold and/or Kidney Yang Deficiency. Heating pads by themselves is not going to be enough (though they can help). Something else is needed. (Note for the students: Yin Deficiency can manifest as a lowered pain threshold.) One of the things that salt does from a TCM standpoint is that it dissolves accumulations. Chinese Traditional Medicine , tulu 489 <tulu489 wrote: > > I tried apple cider vinegar and salt pack. I used it before going to bed. Immediatly after application it appeared to relax the whole area and reduce pain. But in the morning pain and stiffnes both increased and it continues to be like that. I did not try it for a second time. Does it point to something? > > Regards. > > Atul > > victoria_dragon <victoria_dragon wrote: > The fact that the black spots are bilateral could be significant. > (In TCM, sometimes something being on one side only or on both sides > can be significant.) > > From what you describe, it sounds like the areas may possibly be on > the Kidney meridian. I want you to go to http://www.acuxo.com/ and > click on " meridians " on the menu on the left, and then click > on " Kidney " on the menu on the left. Look at the map of the Kidney > meridian, and tell me if it looks like the spot could be somewhere > on the flow of the Kidney meridian. Any time there is discoloration, > pain, heat, cold, a change in skin texture, etc. along the course of > a meridian, imbalance in the meridian needs to be considered and > ruled in or ruled out. > > Giovanni Maciocia writes, " Pain in the ankle is usually due to > invasion of Damp-Cold and to local stagnation of Qi from over-use of > the joint. " (The Practice of , p. 603.) He > recommends working Spleen-5 for ankle pain. You can find the > location of Spleen-5 by clicking on the Spleen meridian on the menu. > > Would you say that applications of heat have helped the problem? > > I don't know very much about the external application of TCM healing > substances. One thing you may want to try for possible Blood Stasis > is a salt and apple cidar vinegar pack to the area. It's real easy > to make. Just pour some salt onto a washcloth and wet it with apple > cidar vinegar. It's important that you use apple cidar vinegar. > Fold the washcloth so the salt won't fall out, and place over the > area. You can secure it with an ace bandage and leave on for several > hours. If you start to feel worse, remove the pack immediately. If > you note improvement, do the treatment again. In my experience it > works quicker on new Blood Stasis than on old. > > Have your feet ever been x-rayed to rule out any structural problem? > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , tulu 489 <tulu489@> wrote: > > > > Victoria, > > Thanks for your detailed thoughtful response. > > To start with spot was reddish then it became brown and finally > became dark. On both the heels on the inner side. Size was that of a > quarter. > > I have been off and on using either heat pad or soaking feet in > lukewarm water. For about two months I regularly massaged my legs > including ankles using either sesame oil or mustard oil or a 50-50 > mixture. The spots have lost much of their darkness but pain > remains. Sometimes I feel the ankles to be very tight and deep > shooting pain. Walking becomes difficult if was sitting for a long > time. First 20-30 steps are difficult. I never had fever related to > my heel pain. It only looked dark, no blister or rough skin. > > > > I doubt it is arthritis. Last year in the last week of September > I was in Vancouver, Canada. Pain shot up, I had problem in walking. > Then I suspected it to be arthritis. I reasoned that since I was > living in southern california pain was in control but cold and > humidity of Vancouver made it worse. But now I have moved to a place > near Memphis. This place is lot more humid but my pain level does > not show any worsening. > > I suffered for a long time from health problems related to damp > heat. But TCM treatment for over two years, Yoga and chi kung, > changes in food has made considerable improvement to my damp heat > conditon. > > > > For the last one week I am applying Peanut oil to ankles and > heels hoping that if pain has anything to do with arthritis or > muscles, I should see some improvements. > > I will try it for one more week before I can say anything about > it's effects. > > I hope these additional details may provide some more clues to > the cause of pain. > > > > Kind regards. > > > > Atul > > > > victoria_dragon <victoria_dragon@> wrote: > > Please describe the black spot on the heel. Was it like > an ulcer > > with a black crust (called a " tache noire " ), or was it more like a > > bruise or was it like a blood blister? > > > > " Tache noire " is French for " black spot " . This sometimes appears > > when a person has been bitten by a tick. Ticks spread rickettsial > > disease, and some of those do have arthritis-like pain as a > symptom. > > For example, arthritis-like pain is fairly common in Isael Spotted > > Fever. BUT, chances are if it is a reckettsial disease, pain in > the > > ankle would have been among the least of your concerns. Symptoms > of > > rickettsial diseases also include headache, fever, and rash. Also > > you said the pain spread to the other ankle after about one month. > > It's not likely that the pain would have skipped other joints. > > (Blood work for rheumatoid arthritis would be negative for some of > > the reckettsial diseases that can result in arthritis-like pain. > > > > Bone spurs are a possibility. They can arise from several causes. > > One of these being over-doing physically, especially too much > > running. Do you jog or play sports that involve a lot of running > > and jumping on hard pavement? Once the bone spur is created, it > can > > throw alignment of the foot off, and the ankle can end up hurting > > more than the heel. In time the alignment in the other foot can be > > thrown off because of the favoring of the injured foot, and the > > other ankle starts to hurt. Did they x-ray you for the possibility > > of bone spurs. > > > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " tulu489 " <tulu489@> wrote: > > > > > > For the last one and half years I have pain in my ankles. It > > started > > > with the right ankle. First a small painful black patch on the > > heel > > > then the pain gradually advanced to ankle. After about one month > > the > > > other ankle was also affected. I have pain all the time, in the > > morning > > > it is worse. Sitting for long time makes ankle stiff. Blood work > > does > > > not point to arthritis. I tried some Ayurvedic arthritis med but > > no > > > improvement. For about two months I took TCM treatment from a > > > practisioner who had helped me with my other health conditions > in > > the > > > past. TCM treatment too did not help. Because of this pain I am > > unable > > > to walk properly. > > > > > > Any help, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Atul > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. > Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 Chinese Traditional Medicine <Chinese Traditional Medicine > , tulu 489 <tulu489 wrote: > >I do not have access to a TCM doctor, I am in Arkansas and there are >no TCM doctors within 100 miles that I know of. I did a search on Arkansas and I got 37 practitioners... but that doesn't always mean there is one close to you. Most of the practitioners are in zip codes that start with 71 or 72. If you want to let me know what your zip code is I can search for you, or you can try one of these two sites. http://dol.jkmcomm.com/acupuncture/default.asp <http://dol.jkmcomm.com/acupuncture/default.asp> http://www.acufinder.com/search_acupuncturists.php <http://www.acufinder.com/search_acupuncturists.php> As far as blood stagnation, the first thing you would want to determine is if it is stagnation from heat or cold, and deficiency or excess as the treatments would be very different. Sometimes it takes a trained eye to differentiate between the two, because they can have very close to the same symptoms, and also can coexist, which complicates diagnosis and self treatment. When you mention that it got worse when you were in Canada because of the cold and the humidity it leads to the conclusion that it is probably a cold condition that is especially aggravated by damp cold (dampness seems to be a secondary effect because you mentioned in Memphis it is more humid, but the pain is not getting worse. The damp may only be a problem when related to the cold?), and this is probably true if it is not an extreme case, but if it is extreme, it could be the exact opposite. Think of it as if you have a hot frying pan, and you put cold water on it, it will cause it to bow or crack making it so you can't use the pan anymore. So generally if cold makes the problem worse, we would assume that it is a cold condition, unless it is an extreme condition then we would guess a hot condition. Overall I think the mustard seed is mostly hot in energy. Did the mustard seed seem to help any? This is a link for white mustard seed. Overall it says warm and spicy with an affinity for the lung channel, and can be used topically with care, but may cause skin irritations, allergic reactions and/or blisters. http://www.sacredlotus.com/herbs/herb.cfm/hid/17 <http://www.sacredlotus.com/herbs/herb.cfm/hid/17> One other thing you might try is to get in contact with your TCM practitioner that you worked with for 2 years and see if she can suggest anything. You said that the person treating you said it was arthritis? Did she by chance tell you how it was caused? An example might be low protective qi allowing cold and dampness to invade that settles in the joints. Some of the signs of blood deficiency include pale and lusterless face, dizziness, tight muscles, restlessness, dry skin, basically what it means is that a certain organ (or it could be your whole body) is undernourished. On a psychological level it could manifest as poor self-esteem, lack of a sense of self-worth, or poor memory. This is for overall blood deficiency, and specific organs symptoms may be different, such as heart blood deficiency can manifest as palpitations insomnia or shyness. I got this info from the web that has no weaver, second edition, page 54. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 5, 2006 Report Share Posted November 5, 2006 - All the TCM cannot remedy a Structural/mechanical problem: fix that & TCM can work its miracles! -Rolfing,aka structural integration, seems to have the greatest bang for a buck - retired mechanic Alt.Health Falling on flat feet Save sagging arches with flex ’n’ point exercises and sound shoes By ELIZABETH BROMSTEIN Flat feet look very strange to me. I know this guy who has them and claims that he once had arches but then one day they just disappeared. Just like that! I was floored by this. What freaked me out the most was that he said he had no idea what happened or why, which got me wondering if anybody's arches could just disappear at any moment. Scary. I have the opposite problem. My arches are so high they cause cramps up the sides of my legs. Call me an asshole, say vanity will be my downfall and all that, but arches make prettier feet. Beyond that, can flat feet cause more serious problems? What the experts say " Biomechanical alignment works like babies playing with blocks to make a tower. If the blocks are well aligned, the tower can go to the sky, but if one is out at the bottom, the tower will collapse. The body doesn't collapse, but it compensates, adapts and shifts, causing troubles anywhere between the feet, head and jaw. People can develop knee or hip problems, bursitis, tendonitis, buttock pain, back pain, headaches. A thorough assessment to find the particular characteristics of your feet is essential. Fallen arches can be corrected with orthotics and proper exercise. Movement can take place more efficiently if the foot is trained to act efficiently. Exercises should emphasis using your toes. " LINE TROSTER, physiotherapist, One to One Physiotherapy and Rehabilitation Clinic, Toronto " Everyone's arch falls a little bit. Over time the muscles become less toned, less strong, and there's a natural decrease in the arch. That'll be influenced by weight gain, activity, stress and trauma. People whose feet roll inward lose shock absorption, and the foot is no longer a stable mechanism to toe off on. The person has to externally rotate the foot and walk off on the side of the great toe. This can cause bunions, numbness, calluses. Fallen arches changes the position of the pelvis, increasing the curvature of the spine and increasing the rotation of the upper body. Traditionally, people suffered less than we do now that we've surrounded ourselves with concrete. Good solid, structural support [in footwear] can offset a lot of the instability. " MARK BRADLEY, podiatrist, Mississauga Podiatry Associates " While most people with flat feet don't have a problem, they can experience arch or knee pain, shin splints, Achilles tendonitits, plantar fasciitis and heel spurs. See a health care professional if you have foot pain or if no arch appears when you stand on your toes . Devices such as foot orthotics are used to alter foot function. The actual height of the arches is not as important as how they function during walking and running. One of the causes of falling arches is over-pronation, a leaning inward of the ankle bones toward the centre line. To know whether you over-pronate when walking, look at a pair of your well-worn shoes. If you have flat feet, there will be more wear on the inside of the sole in the heel area. There is some controversy as to whether foot exercises help support fallen arches. " KAREN JONGEDIJK, chiropractor, Oma Chiropractic, Toronto " We look into the relationship and functioning between the foot, knee, back and hip. If you improve mobility in one part, it will improve in others. If you can improve what's happening in the hip and back, you may not even have to address the fallen arch directly. I've had people who've been able to stand with the arch lifted after one lesson. Here's a little movement series that stimulates the buttock muscles that connect with the legs and their ability to pull up the arches: Lie on your stomach, slowly lift your lower legs so your feet face the ceiling and gently flex and point your feet. Make circles with your feet. Get up slowly and see what your standing is like now. " JUDY KATZ, guild-certified Feldenkrais practitioner, Toronto NOW | OCTOBER 19 - 25, 2006 | VOL. 26 NO. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 Can moxa be tried for this condition? I had tried cupping (vacuum) but that did not give me any relief. I am not sure if heating does me any good. I will again try apple cider and salt, but only for 4-5 hours. Last time I used it for the entire night. Regards. Atul victoria_dragon <victoria_dragon wrote: The fact that the black spots are bilateral could be significant. (In TCM, sometimes something being on one side only or on both sides can be significant.) From what you describe, it sounds like the areas may possibly be on the Kidney meridian. I want you to go to http://www.acuxo.com/ and click on " meridians " on the menu on the left, and then click on " Kidney " on the menu on the left. Look at the map of the Kidney meridian, and tell me if it looks like the spot could be somewhere on the flow of the Kidney meridian. Any time there is discoloration, pain, heat, cold, a change in skin texture, etc. along the course of a meridian, imbalance in the meridian needs to be considered and ruled in or ruled out. Giovanni Maciocia writes, " Pain in the ankle is usually due to invasion of Damp-Cold and to local stagnation of Qi from over-use of the joint. " (The Practice of , p. 603.) He recommends working Spleen-5 for ankle pain. You can find the location of Spleen-5 by clicking on the Spleen meridian on the menu. Would you say that applications of heat have helped the problem? I don't know very much about the external application of TCM healing substances. One thing you may want to try for possible Blood Stasis is a salt and apple cidar vinegar pack to the area. It's real easy to make. Just pour some salt onto a washcloth and wet it with apple cidar vinegar. It's important that you use apple cidar vinegar. Fold the washcloth so the salt won't fall out, and place over the area. You can secure it with an ace bandage and leave on for several hours. If you start to feel worse, remove the pack immediately. If you note improvement, do the treatment again. In my experience it works quicker on new Blood Stasis than on old. Have your feet ever been x-rayed to rule out any structural problem? Chinese Traditional Medicine , tulu 489 <tulu489 wrote: > > Victoria, > Thanks for your detailed thoughtful response. > To start with spot was reddish then it became brown and finally became dark. On both the heels on the inner side. Size was that of a quarter. > I have been off and on using either heat pad or soaking feet in lukewarm water. For about two months I regularly massaged my legs including ankles using either sesame oil or mustard oil or a 50-50 mixture. The spots have lost much of their darkness but pain remains. Sometimes I feel the ankles to be very tight and deep shooting pain. Walking becomes difficult if was sitting for a long time. First 20-30 steps are difficult. I never had fever related to my heel pain. It only looked dark, no blister or rough skin. > > I doubt it is arthritis. Last year in the last week of September I was in Vancouver, Canada. Pain shot up, I had problem in walking. Then I suspected it to be arthritis. I reasoned that since I was living in southern california pain was in control but cold and humidity of Vancouver made it worse. But now I have moved to a place near Memphis. This place is lot more humid but my pain level does not show any worsening. > I suffered for a long time from health problems related to damp heat. But TCM treatment for over two years, Yoga and chi kung, changes in food has made considerable improvement to my damp heat conditon. > > For the last one week I am applying Peanut oil to ankles and heels hoping that if pain has anything to do with arthritis or muscles, I should see some improvements. > I will try it for one more week before I can say anything about it's effects. > I hope these additional details may provide some more clues to the cause of pain. > > Kind regards. > > Atul > > victoria_dragon <victoria_dragon wrote: > Please describe the black spot on the heel. Was it like an ulcer > with a black crust (called a " tache noire " ), or was it more like a > bruise or was it like a blood blister? > > " Tache noire " is French for " black spot " . This sometimes appears > when a person has been bitten by a tick. Ticks spread rickettsial > disease, and some of those do have arthritis-like pain as a symptom. > For example, arthritis-like pain is fairly common in Isael Spotted > Fever. BUT, chances are if it is a reckettsial disease, pain in the > ankle would have been among the least of your concerns. Symptoms of > rickettsial diseases also include headache, fever, and rash. Also > you said the pain spread to the other ankle after about one month. > It's not likely that the pain would have skipped other joints. > (Blood work for rheumatoid arthritis would be negative for some of > the reckettsial diseases that can result in arthritis-like pain. > > Bone spurs are a possibility. They can arise from several causes. > One of these being over-doing physically, especially too much > running. Do you jog or play sports that involve a lot of running > and jumping on hard pavement? Once the bone spur is created, it can > throw alignment of the foot off, and the ankle can end up hurting > more than the heel. In time the alignment in the other foot can be > thrown off because of the favoring of the injured foot, and the > other ankle starts to hurt. Did they x-ray you for the possibility > of bone spurs. > > Chinese Traditional Medicine , " tulu489 " <tulu489@> wrote: > > > > For the last one and half years I have pain in my ankles. It > started > > with the right ankle. First a small painful black patch on the > heel > > then the pain gradually advanced to ankle. After about one month > the > > other ankle was also affected. I have pain all the time, in the > morning > > it is worse. Sitting for long time makes ankle stiff. Blood work > does > > not point to arthritis. I tried some Ayurvedic arthritis med but > no > > improvement. For about two months I took TCM treatment from a > > practisioner who had helped me with my other health conditions in > the > > past. TCM treatment too did not help. Because of this pain I am > unable > > to walk properly. > > > > Any help, suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks. > > > > Atul > > > Talk is cheap. Use Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 hi i have pain in my right ankle since last 8 years. X ray was nil,all external oinments had unsatisfactory result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Hi, Have you thought about Kinesiology? I speak from personal experience, I had dreadful pain in my teres minor (muscle located near shoulder blade) for months had tried allsorts to help. I had one Kinesiology session and discovered I had been storing a heap of negative (anger) energy there - with one correction the pain was gone. Just something to think about if you have exhausted all other avenues. Regards Caroline http://alwaysnaturallygreat.com , " nilu_ba7 " <nilu_ba7 wrote: > > hi > i have pain in my right ankle since last 8 years. > X ray was nil,all external oinments had unsatisfactory result. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 I would fully recommend Bowen Therapy for Ankle pain. Often you will get instant relief. It is absolutely excellent for anything like this. You can find someone that does it close to you by going to: http://www.bowtech.com All the best Diana Moore http://www.bowentherapy.homestead.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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