Guest guest Posted June 28, 2003 Report Share Posted June 28, 2003 seherbacademy , Julie Chambers <info@j...> wrote: > Great news, all! Marijuana did the trick! His doc gave him an RX for it, and > he smoked 1/2 a joint, and hiccups gone! so what did it do? I think it descends ST qi, relieves constraint and calms spasm. In excess, it damages the yin and can disturb the ministerial fire and thence the spirit. Its antispasmodic effect (which is why MS patients love it, too) may explain things entirely. However its well known effects at treating nausea of chemotherapy confirm that it does something to allow stomach qi to descend. Its use for depression by the eclectics for about a century and german physician herbalists until the forties or so confirm that it does something to help with liver qi constraint. If liver constraint was involved, then perhaps marijuana may have actually treated the root. The long term followup will be crucial in determining this. So should we lobby to have marijuana included in our materia medica. it is in the shen nong ben cao jing. We should be able to prescribe it medicinally if the MD's can since our tradition of use predates theirs by almost 2000 years. :-) I would highly recommend deep breathing exercise as a followup. Pranayama, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2003 Report Share Posted June 28, 2003 , " " wrote: > seherbacademy , Julie Chambers <info@j...> wrote: > > Great news, all! Marijuana did the trick! His doc gave him an RX for it, and he smoked 1/2 a joint, and hiccups gone! > > so what did it do? >>> : Among other features, the pulses of someone taking marijuana show a strong dispersing action at the endocrine level of the heart; hence, the giddiness. Consequently, it took the stress out of the diaphragm and pericardium (between the distal and middle positions and in the left distal position, respectively) which relieved the hiccups. Jim Ramholz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2003 Report Share Posted June 28, 2003 , Julie Chambers <info@j...> wrote: > Great news, all! Marijuana did the trick! His doc gave him an RX for it, and > he smoked 1/2 a joint, and hiccups gone! > I will give you an update in a couple days. > > Julie > > > > Dear Bob, and all who helped on the hiccup case: > > > > > > The patient has been released from the hospital, with instructions > > to > > > intubate himself every 2 hours or so with a tubing that stimulates > > a strong > > > gagging (actually retching) response, and thereby seems to calm or > > reset the > > > diaphragm spasm. I only know this second hand and have not seen the > > patient > > > again. He is coming for more acupuncture in the morning and I will > > let you > > > know how it goes. So glad to hear it. I was worried about him! Thanskforthe dialogue. It was very stimulating. Bob Damone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2003 Report Share Posted June 29, 2003 Jim, Julie, and he smoked 1/2 a joint, and hiccups gone! > > > > so what did it do? >>> > > > Among other features, the pulses of someone taking marijuana show a > strong dispersing action at the endocrine level of the heart; hence, > the giddiness. Consequently, it took the stress out of the diaphragm > and pericardium (between the distal and middle positions and in the > left distal position, respectively) which relieved the hiccups. > Couple of questions. Julie, do the patient's pulses reflect Jim's speculations? Can we find out what lead the MD to prescribe marijuana? Had he/she had previous experience treating hiccups with it? Was it just a hunch? A last resort? You might want to write up the case for http://www.rxmarijuana.com/ Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 - the best medicine there is!! Marnae At 02:19 PM 6/28/2003 -0600, you wrote: Great news, all! Marijuana did the trick! His doc gave him an RX for it, and he smoked 1/2 a joint, and hiccups gone! I will give you an update in a couple days. Julie > > Dear Bob, and all who helped on the hiccup case: > > > > The patient has been released from the hospital, with instructions > to > > intubate himself every 2 hours or so with a tubing that stimulates > a strong > > gagging (actually retching) response, and thereby seems to calm or > reset the > > diaphragm spasm. I only know this second hand and have not seen the > patient > > again. He is coming for more acupuncture in the morning and I will > let you > > know how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2003 Report Share Posted June 30, 2003 Dear Ken, > > Couple of questions. Julie, do the patient's > pulses reflect Jim's speculations? I don't know because I have not seen him again since the " cure " , and I am not expert enough at pulse diagnosis to try James' ideas. > > Can we find out what lead the MD to prescribe > marijuana? Had he/she had previous experience > treating hiccups with it? Was it just a hunch? > A last resort? The MD, apparently, had heard that this would work in some cases. It must have seemed like a " last resort " to him/her, but I would certainly try it before Thorazine, Vicodin and a phrenic nerve block. I will look at this website. Thanks. Julie > > You might want to write up the case for > http://www.rxmarijuana.com/ > > Ken > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 Julie, > > Couple of questions. Julie, do the patient's > > pulses reflect Jim's speculations? > > I don't know because I have not seen him again since the " cure " , and I am > not expert enough at pulse diagnosis to try James' ideas. I would be very interested to hear any assessment you might have of the patient whenever you next meet him. > > > The MD, apparently, had heard that this would work in some cases. It must > have seemed like a " last resort " to him/her, but I would certainly try it > before Thorazine, Vicodin and a phrenic nerve block. I guess one of the things that defines a last resort is that it's last. Either it works and then subsequent resorts are not required, or it doesn't work and... well, whatever " failure " looks like ensues. Do you have any contact with the MD directly? As this MD seems to be a practicing herbalist, having just resolved this case through the application of an herbal remedy, it might be interesting to get some further detail on what went into the decision to medicate this patient in this way. If you look around that website I suggested, you'll find there's a good deal of motion being generated in the direction of legalization of medical marijuana. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 Ken et al, Here in Oregon medical marijuana has be legalized! However, only physicians may prescribe it. Apparently there is a doc here that is retired who prescribes it as a matter of principle (although he does not admit that, saying that the " patients " need it and he has the power to give it, so he does, to the tune of 90%+ of all the prescriptions in the state). He was investigated but they could not yank his license. Marijuana is only supposed to prescribed for pain, glaucoma, nausea from prescription drugs (i.e. chemotherapy), low appetite from same, and possibly a few other indications. I believe CA has a similar law as well as several other states. As a point of consideration, Attorney General John Ashcroft has vowed to " stop this nonsense " and will use the federal laws to prosecute doctors and individuals. The first way he has used leverage is to threaten to take narcotics privileges away from docs who prescribe it. This bozo is also trying to eliminate our death with dignity law, which has been passed twice by an overwhelming majority, twice (68% 1st time and 73% 2nd time). Hope this is enlightening, thomas > > If you look around that website I suggested, > you'll find there's a good deal of motion > being generated in the direction of > legalization of medical marijuana. > > Ken > > Chinese Herbology and Acupuncture acupuncture and herbal information " Knowing nothing, you will be aware of everything. " Lao Tzu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 Last night I was thinking how marijauna works with memory in exactly the opposite way as a hiccup. A hiccup comes and you try to forget it. It's gone.... peace... ooops, damn! another one! peace.... I hope it's gone... ooops, damn... With marijauna it's... let me go to this room. Now why am I sitting down here? I had a thought. What was it? doug > >Great news, all! Marijuana did the trick! His doc gave him an RX for it, and > >he smoked 1/2 a joint, and hiccups gone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 julie, i thought the responses to your case was very interesting, educational and i personally read all the responses regarding the case. dont stop asking or sharing. you just cant please all the people all the time...remember that there is a delete command for those that have a problem with your posts. thanks for sharing your case with the group. susan schiff www.gotacupuncture.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 Ken Rose said: > > I guess one of the things that defines a > last resort is that it's last. Either it > works and then subsequent resorts are > not required, or it doesn't work and... > well, whatever " failure " looks like > ensues. Do you have any contact with > the MD directly? As this MD seems to > be a practicing herbalist, having just > resolved this case through the application > of an herbal remedy, it might be interesting > to get some further detail on what > went into the decision to medicate > this patient in this way. No, I did not have any contact with the MD. By the way, I have received a couple of angry responses to my " hiccup cure " announcement, privately, off the list, expressing that this was a " TCM fiasco " , " regrettable " , and if I only saw the patient once, then why was I asking for help? " I want to thank everyone who helped. I learned a lot. The reason I asked for help was because the patient was in an emergency situation, in the hospital, and I didn't know if I would see him again, or when! It could have been that any hour I would receive a phone call from him saying he wanted to try acupuncture again. I wanted to be ready with as many ideas and solutions as possible. As it turned out, he was " cured " before I was able to see him again, and therefore I have had no further contact, other than two emails telling me he is still symptom-free. I don't understand the anger and resentment...I presented the case as fully as I could after only one contact with the patient. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 Julie, I just wanted to express that I was interested in your case. I d from this list for over a year because I was flamed. if we can't ask questions- any questions- even stupid questions, how will we learn? I hope that others won't feel intimidated about asking for help with cases. I know I am. I thought you were being thorough to be prepared for this man who was in a dire situation. Cara > > I want to thank everyone who helped. I learned a lot. The reason I asked for > help was because the patient was in an emergency situation, in the hospital, > and I didn't know if I would see him again, or when! It could have been that > any hour I would receive a phone call from him saying he wanted to try > acupuncture again. I wanted to be ready with as many ideas and solutions as > possible. As it turned out, he was " cured " before I was able to see him > again, and therefore I have had no further contact, other than two emails > telling me he is still symptom-free. I don't understand the anger and > resentment...I presented the case as fully as I could after only one contact > with the patient. > > Julie > > > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare > practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing > in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, > including board approved online continuing education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 Cara, thank you. I don't want to seem overly sensitive here. The one person who had a problem is just that...a person with a problem. Most people were very gracious and helpful, and I will not hesitate to ask for help again. You, of all people, who have been so generous with advice and knowledge, should not be afraid to ask for help with cases! Julie > Julie, > I just wanted to express that I was interested in your case. I d > from this list for over a year because I was flamed. > if we can't ask questions- any questions- even stupid questions, how will > we learn? I hope that others won't feel intimidated about asking for help > with cases. I know I am. > I thought you were being thorough to be prepared for this man who was in a > dire situation. > > Cara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 Julie, > > By the way, I have received a couple of angry responses to my " hiccup cure " > announcement, privately, off the list, expressing that this was a " TCM > fiasco " , " regrettable " , and if I only saw the patient once, then why was I > asking for help? " Curious, eh? Cannabis is as traditional a Chinese herb as you can find. In fact, this little weed is a traditional remedy in most places where it is found and serves as a vivid example of the ways in which human dependence upon the wider biosphere shapes the growth and development of civilizations. This presumes that the criticism you received was inspired by the fact of the use of marijuana and not by the fact that it was prescribed by an MD rather than by an LAc. If the complaints stem from the latter fact, has it become permissible for LAc's to prescribe pot in California? Or were people complaining about something else all together. You were faulted for asking for help? ??? I'd actually love to read those critical comments and always feel a little cheated by the phenomena of off-list correspondence regarding list topics. I mean, if we're going to go to the trouble of having such discussions, shouldn't we be forthcoming? I would like to request of those who found fault in Julie's handling of the matter to come forward and let the rest of us know what's on your mind. What was wrong? I'm mystified. > > I want to thank everyone who helped. I learned a lot. The reason I asked for > help was because the patient was in an emergency situation, in the hospital, > and I didn't know if I would see him again, or when! It could have been that > any hour I would receive a phone call from him saying he wanted to try > acupuncture again. I wanted to be ready with as many ideas and solutions as > possible. As it turned out, he was " cured " before I was able to see him > again, and therefore I have had no further contact, other than two emails > telling me he is still symptom-free. I don't understand the anger and > resentment...I presented the case as fully as I could after only one contact > with the patient. I don't understand either and would really like to know what your correspondents found to complain about. Really folks, why act to undermine a forum such as this one by indulging in private quibbling that clearly acts only in the direction of disturbing and discouraging participation? I'm all for disagreements and fault finding. I think it makes us all more capable, both as individuals and as a group. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 Ken, I won't forward the private messages to the group, but the person seemed angry that the patient resorted to a " heavy drug " instead of a TCM cure. There was also anger that I had bothered to ask the group for help when I had only seen the patient once. As I explained, I was searching for answers in case I saw him again. I did not. Perhaps the angry person had some other issues that I didn't understand, but I would like to let that person speak for himself, and I wish he would. > Cannabis is as traditional a Chinese > herb as you can find. In fact, this > little weed is a traditional remedy > in most places where it is found and > serves as a vivid example of the ways > in which human dependence upon the > wider biosphere shapes the growth > and development of civilizations. > My students asked me about this last night. What are the leaves used for, and what are they called? In traditional Chinese herbal medicine, were the cannabis leaves used to alter the mind, or calm the shen? Calm the stomach? > This presumes that the criticism you > received was inspired by the fact of > the use of marijuana and not by the > fact that it was prescribed by an MD > rather than by an LAc. If the complaints > stem from the latter fact, has it become > permissible for LAc's to prescribe pot in > California? No, we cannot, and I think it was the former fact. > > I'd actually love to read those critical > comments and always feel a little cheated > by the phenomena of off-list correspondence > regarding list topics. I mean, if we're > going to go to the trouble of having such > discussions, shouldn't we be forthcoming? I would like that too, because actually the person had a lot of interesting point combinations and was helpful until I presented the outcome of the case. > > I would like to request of those who found > fault in Julie's handling of the matter to > come forward and let the rest of us know > what's on your mind. > > What was wrong? > > I'm mystified. > Me too. I meant no harm and have no quarrel with anyone. I just want to learn and grow. Julie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 1, 2003 Report Share Posted July 1, 2003 Somehow, this reminds me: years ago I was teaching at tri-State. I spent literally 3 HOURS putting out fires because Bob Flaws ( Bob, do you remember this?) said ( presumably just to yank students chains) " When I lecture I like to have a martini and a cheeseburger at lunch to nourish my yin ( OK- I'm sure I'm paraphrasing. It's over 16 years ago.). Wow- they just couldn't take a joke. What a hoot! Let's assume whomever was reactive to Julies case has his own issues and leave it be. And now- as practitioners in states where pot is illegal can say to the next hiccup case we encounter " I heard about a case that was resolved....... " and thus give the prescription without compromising our professionalism. :-) Cara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 ken, I agree wholeheartedly. The hiccup case was actually very informative and interesting, and these cases should be encouraged, Eti AcuClinic: Acupuncture and HerbsEti Domb, L.Ac.1281 University Ave, Suite ESan Diego, CA 92103619.543.9280 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 , Julie Chambers <info@j...> wrote: > > By the way, I have received a couple of angry responses to my " hiccup cure " > announcement, privately, off the list, expressing that this was a " TCM > fiasco " , " regrettable " , and if I only saw the patient once, then why was I > asking for help? " At least people are taking their personal disputes up personally. However I have to say that this is hardly any fiascoe. Marijuana is not only listed in the oldest materia medica (shen nong ben cao jing), but also what is considered the most complete modern compendium, the zhong yao da ci dian. I think Bob Damone may have a translation of this material at some point. It has well established medicinal properties, being one of the world's oldest cultivated plants. We actually are the holders of the tradition of medical marijuana and we should participate in its rightful revival as a medicine. None of which has anything to do with recreational use. When a medicinal substance works, it our duty to determine what it did on our terms. clearly marijuana is not only safe, but also effective for some things. It is certainly far less risky than many herbs we use everyday. If it worked, it affected TCM physiology and we can determine how, based upon an anlysis of temp, flavor, direction, known effects, etc. the only fiascoe would be to NOT investigate this matter more fully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 > > When a medicinal substance works, it our duty to determine what it did on our > terms. clearly marijuana is not only safe, but also effective for some things. It > is certainly far less risky than many herbs we use everyday. If it worked, it > affected TCM physiology and we can determine how, based upon an anlysis of > temp, flavor, direction, known effects, etc. the only fiascoe would be to NOT > investigate this matter more fully. > I asked Ken Rose in a post yesterday, but can you tell me what the Chinese name, properties, channels and traditional actions of marijuana leaves are? In what English language books is this herb discussed? It is not discussed in Hsu's Oriental Materia Medica. Julie > > > > Chinese Herbal Medicine, a voluntary organization of licensed healthcare practitioners, matriculated students and postgraduate academics specializing in Chinese Herbal Medicine, provides a variety of professional services, including board approved online continuing education. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 , Julie Chambers <info@j...> wrote: > > > I asked Ken Rose in a post yesterday, but can you tell me what the Chinese > name, properties, channels and traditional actions of marijuana leaves are? > In what English language books is this herb discussed? Flaw's shen nong ben cao jing. Here is my very rough but hopefully functional translation of the entry on cannabis from my chinese version: spicy, neutral. cures the 7 damages, benefits (disinhibits) the five zang, cures cold blood qi. Consumption over a long time will will make one a sage, able to see ghosts and spirits, with superhuman abilities like gods and it will lighten one's body (according to Unschuld this last line is taoist code for creating an immortal spiritual embryo). P.S. I will check my ben cao gang mu later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Julie, > > I asked Ken Rose in a post yesterday, but can you tell me what the Chinese > name, properties, channels and traditional actions of marijuana leaves are? > In what English language books is this herb discussed? > > It is not discussed in Hsu's Oriental Materia Medica. > > Julie I don't have all the info you're looking for at my fingertips. I'll see what I can find for you. The only name I've heard for marijuana in Chinese is huo ma. Virtually everything I know about this plant has been gained from listening to people and from experience with it. I've read very little about it in English or in Chinese. Regarding channels, I have come to the conclusion that it affects the liver channel, as it produces various effects associated with liver physiology and pathology, eg. red eyes, volatile emotions, etc. I'll see what I can find in Chinese and let you know when I do come up with anything. Meanwhile, there are no doubt others on the list with far more extensive knowledge about it than me. And I hope they'll chime in. Best, Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Julie, and all, It dawns on me that one of the problems in coming up with adequate and accurate information about this little plant is that the various government initiatives to monopolize its cultivation and trade beginning shortly after the start of the 20th century have resulted in, among other things, the purging of references to any beneficial effects from the literature. Since governments act through laws and punishments, a rationale had to be developed to justify the inflicting of so much pain and suffering on the general population that came with the various international and national statutes covering cannabis. As I said, I'll look around and see what I can find here, and I'll greatly appreciate any and all input from others. Thanks, Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Ken, I'm a little confused. Yesterday you said (and didn't Todd say too) that marijuana leaves were part of traditional chinese herbal medicine from the very beginning, and that therefore they are a valuable part of the pharmacopoeia? Yet today you say there are no references to this herb in any of the books. Then how do you know it was used medicinally? And nobody has yet mentioned the Chinese name -- is is just Huo Ma ( " fire hemp " )? Is there any other name? Thanks. Julie > > It dawns on me that one of the problems in > coming up with adequate and accurate information > about this little plant is that the various > government initiatives to monopolize its > cultivation and trade beginning shortly after > the start of the 20th century have resulted > in, among other things, the purging of references > to any beneficial effects from the literature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 2, 2003 Report Share Posted July 2, 2003 Julie, Sorry I didn't make myself clear. I didn't mean to say that there were no references to marijuana in any books. I meant to say that references to its benefits have tended to be purged from literature in the wake of the criminalization and demonization of the plant that began in the early 20th century. I will see what I can find in various Chinese sources over the next few days. Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2005 Report Share Posted May 3, 2005 Daily Aromatherapy Tipbrought to you by AromaThyme.comToday's TipHiccup CurePut 1 drop of Fennel essential oil in a brown paper bag. Hold it over your nose and mouthand breathe deeply and slowly through your nose.-- Diana Gonzalez Nothing wastes more energy than worrying - the longer a problem is carried, the heavier it gets. Don't take things too seriously - live a life of serenity, not a life of regrets. -Unknown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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