All That We See Or Seem Is But A Dream Within A Dream

[Guest guest]

At 05:20 PM 05/30/2006 -0700, you wrote:

>Hi there,

> It is often difficult, on a regular basis. to get natural citrine

> and it tends to be more expensive. Throughout time Amethyst is

> naturally treated in the earth through the earths normal radiation

> process and that is how we get

> citrine. ...........................................

> Dawn Silver

> Jewels of the Lotus Tibetan Gemstone Oracle

> ps.

> it is the same with blue topaz and numerous other stones whose

> demands have exceeded its appearance....only in the case of blue

> topaz it is normally ice blue and pale. Strangely this radiation

> process is done on many of the university campuses.

 

 

Thank you Dawn! I have been wrestling with this concept, and keep

seeing it from different angles!

 

Changes that occur 'naturally' in Nature are okay? But these SAME

changes that occur, from Mankind having learned the same processes are not?

 

I do not remember my chemistry well enough to define plain mineral

iron, Fe, or ferrous or ferric, nor the particular process to make

the changes. I do understand that an Ionic change occurs in the molecule.

 

By some of this reasoning I've been reading, we should not cut,

polish, mount in jewelry findings, ANY rock, stone, or mineral, as

that will change the Naturalism of it!

 

Applied to the human being, he should not wear clothes, or if he

does, not change his shirt, as that will change his natural 'being'.

 

As with those stones that have been artificially enhanced, likewise,

we should not wear makeup or essential oils, or jewelry to enhance our image.

 

What about all the various rocks that have been carved over the

years? Some for Sacred Ceremonial purposes, some so they could hang

them around their necks, some because someone thought it would

display an incredible ability in making Art?

 

I am NOT condoning false advertising or selling under false

pretenses. Caveat Emptor!

 

Many a person who has been to the bar and gone home for the night

with Mr./Ms. Perfect, has awakened in the morning only to find

.............??????

 

Then there are the psuedomorhs which started out as one mineral, only

to be replaced, by some natural means of Nature, by some other

mineral. We could probably bounce THAT ball around for quite a while too?

 

Ah well, " Every Morning, Every Evening, Ain't we got fun? "

 

I carry,,,,, so watch out if you meet me on the street! I could have

a double terminated something in one pocket, a tumbled

something-or-other, perhaps even a REAL river rock that asked to go

home with me. There's no telling WHAT'S in the other

pocket............ several somethings that are dukeing it out,

because they shoulden't be carried together!

 

I used to sleep with a ten pound column of Selenite in the drawer

under the bed, no telling WHAT that has done to my psyche!

 

Now I keep a Quartz Crystal, standing on top of a large flat piece of

Lepidolite, accompanied by a huge chunk of translucent Green Calcite,

or maybe it's Fluorite, I forget, and something else translucently

iridescent and blue, at the head of the bed.

 

Who knows, maybe one morning I'm going to wake up and be a pillar of Halite?

 

Peace and Love,

Byron

[Guest guest]

Dear Byron,

 

You write well and witty.

 

I say love the rock or gem unconditionally but.........from a collectors

standpoint the eye becomes discriminating and the value has a different meaning.

Of course we live in a world where so much is tinted and tucked...it is about

individual choices....and so it is with gemstones...irradiated, polished, shaped

and dyed. And yet, there is undeniably a beauty discovered with some of these

processes, examples would be chrysocolla and malachite and the difference with

rough to polish (not exclusively).

 

But the collector looks for the natural beauty, the genuine geometries and

true colors. And from a Healers standpoint, taking a natural quartz point for

instance, the energy spirals out (measurably) from the c-axis of the termination

(point). If polished there is no guarantee the actual point has been left

intake and so no guarantee of where the energy stream actually flows from. If

you change the point you never change the flow of energy. That is determined by

the c-axis of the crystal in relation to the lattice structure. And it is

different for all geometric forms. This becomes important to the healer who

consciously directs the healing flow.

 

I love all crystals as I believe you and the other crystal healers and readers

here do. I think it is about being real and honest about the energy and value

and not just into supply and demand and the merry-go-round of marketing.

 

Can you feel it? By the way I really love the combo of quartz and lepidolite.

Did you know that lithium, the anti-depressant is made from lepidolite? And

lithium is the third lightest mineral on the periodic table of elements. It

lifts a heavy condition (heavier specific gravity).

 

Peace and Love to you as well,

Cheers,

Dawn Silver

Jewels of the Lotus Tibetan Gemstone Oracle

 

Byron <byronksc wrote:

At 05:20 PM 05/30/2006 -0700, you wrote:

>Hi there,

> It is often difficult, on a regular basis. to get natural citrine

> and it tends to be more expensive. Throughout time Amethyst is

> naturally treated in the earth through the earths normal radiation

> process and that is how we get

> citrine. ...........................................

> Dawn Silver

> Jewels of the Lotus Tibetan Gemstone Oracle

> ps.

> it is the same with blue topaz and numerous other stones whose

> demands have exceeded its appearance....only in the case of blue

> topaz it is normally ice blue and pale. Strangely this radiation

> process is done on many of the university campuses.

 

 

Thank you Dawn! I have been wrestling with this concept, and keep

seeing it from different angles!

 

Changes that occur 'naturally' in Nature are okay? But these SAME

changes that occur, from Mankind having learned the same processes are not?

 

I do not remember my chemistry well enough to define plain mineral

iron, Fe, or ferrous or ferric, nor the particular process to make

the changes. I do understand that an Ionic change occurs in the molecule.

 

By some of this reasoning I've been reading, we should not cut,

polish, mount in jewelry findings, ANY rock, stone, or mineral, as

that will change the Naturalism of it!

 

Applied to the human being, he should not wear clothes, or if he

does, not change his shirt, as that will change his natural 'being'.

 

As with those stones that have been artificially enhanced, likewise,

we should not wear makeup or essential oils, or jewelry to enhance our image.

 

What about all the various rocks that have been carved over the

years? Some for Sacred Ceremonial purposes, some so they could hang

them around their necks, some because someone thought it would

display an incredible ability in making Art?

 

I am NOT condoning false advertising or selling under false

pretenses. Caveat Emptor!

 

Many a person who has been to the bar and gone home for the night

with Mr./Ms. Perfect, has awakened in the morning only to find

.............??????

 

Then there are the psuedomorhs which started out as one mineral, only

to be replaced, by some natural means of Nature, by some other

mineral. We could probably bounce THAT ball around for quite a while too?

 

Ah well, " Every Morning, Every Evening, Ain't we got fun? "

 

I carry,,,,, so watch out if you meet me on the street! I could have

a double terminated something in one pocket, a tumbled

something-or-other, perhaps even a REAL river rock that asked to go

home with me. There's no telling WHAT'S in the other

pocket............ several somethings that are dukeing it out,

because they shoulden't be carried together!

 

I used to sleep with a ten pound column of Selenite in the drawer

under the bed, no telling WHAT that has done to my psyche!

 

Now I keep a Quartz Crystal, standing on top of a large flat piece of

Lepidolite, accompanied by a huge chunk of translucent Green Calcite,

or maybe it's Fluorite, I forget, and something else translucently

iridescent and blue, at the head of the bed.

 

Who knows, maybe one morning I'm going to wake up and be a pillar of Halite?

 

Peace and Love,

Byron

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Crystal healing workshop files are online at

http://pjentoft.com/0crystal-healing.html

some files, photos, and message archives can also be found At:

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/30/2006 11:13:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,

byronksc writes:

 

> By some of this reasoning I've been reading, we should not cut,

> polish, mount in jewelry findings, ANY rock, stone, or mineral, as

> that will change the Naturalism of it!

>

 

Byron .... love the email gave me a smile this morn before work. Alas, you

forgot my favorite one with maintaining the naturalism of

rocks/minerals/crystals ;-) ... if we should not alter them then they should not

be removed from

Mother Earth in the first place. This gets into a totally different realm for

bouncing that ball around then the pseudomorphs!

 

Blessings to your Week all

ReNau

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Byron-

 

>

Changes that occur 'naturally' in Nature are okay? But these SAME

changes that occur, from Mankind having learned the same processes

are not?

>

 

The key here is that they are not the same changes and only

superficially appear to be the same. They are different energies and

different agents. One is guiding by the divine intelligence and

sovereignty of the stone spirit and the other is guided by man,

working under the (all too common) illusion that we can make anything

better by sticking our hands in it. It's not too hard to see just how

well that idea has collectively worked for us.

 

The real answers come from the stone spirits themselves. Heat treated

Amethyst, offered as Citrine, has nearly no medicine. Aqua Aura

crystals feel suffocated and strangled. Irradiated Blue Topaz has an

erratic energy. Clear Quartz from Arkansas that has been irradiated

to look like Smokey Quartz literally feels dead.

 

And, beyond the realm of feeling there is the realm of listening - of

connecting directly to the spirits in the stones and listening to

them speak. In my listening over the last 14 or 15 years these stones

spirits continue to cry out against these abuses - heat treating,

irradiating, dying, plating, stabilizing, etc. They call them harsh,

unkind, cruel, direspectful and, most of all, painful. If we listen

they are asking us to stop this and to stop supporting it by adopting

them, by believing the marketing hype peddled to make a buck.

 

I have a very passionate stand on this issue. It didn't come from me

thinking it up or deciding what was so. It came from me listening to

the stone spirits, to the Earth Mother... to hearing what THEY had to

say, what they experience. It is horrific, at best.

 

One way to understand it would be to consider our own growth process.

I respect your soveignty and trust the divinity of your own process.

I'd let you grow however you grow. But what if one day I decided I

didn't like your hair and held you down and shaved your head? What if

I decided I didn't like your clothes and held you down and tore them

off of you, forcing another outfit on you? What if I didn't like how

you looked and I painted your face and put a mask on a you, a mask

that not only made it impossible to see your true face, but also made

it hard to breathe?

 

To do that to you would be exploitation and abuse. To do that to you

would be wrong. And it's wrong to do it to the stone spirits too, no

matter how you try and frame it.

 

The stone spirits have a lot to say about this, if we'll listen. They

speak from their pain. They ask us to listen, to wake up, to grow up

and to move beyond these things. They ask us to realize that Aqua

Aura doesn't offer us special energy, but it DOES offer us a wake up

call - a chance to wake up, to realize how much this " aqua aura "

process tells us about ourselves, our culture, our relationship to

Nature and our relationship to all of life.

 

But in order to get this lesson we have to be willing to hear things

we don't like. We have to be willing to swallow bitter medicine. Most

of us aren't, so it's easier to believe that they're pretty. The ugly

truth remains ugly, even if we sprinkle it with glitter. The truth of

the matter can be found through listening, always.

 

In Love,

Fabeku

--------------

Caretaker, Crystal_Spirit list

crystal_spirit_2/

 

dancing dragonfly - stone spirits to support a miraculous life!

http://www.dancing-dragonfly.com/

[Guest guest]

At 11:39 AM 05/31/2006 +0000, you wrote:

>Byron-

> >

>Changes that occur 'naturally' in Nature are okay? But these SAME

>changes that occur, from Mankind having learned the same processes

>are not?

> >

>The key here is that they are not the same changes and only

>superficially appear to be the same. They are different energies and

>different agents. One is guiding by the divine intelligence and

>sovereignty of the stone spirit and the other is guided by man,

>working under the (all too common) illusion that we can make anything

>better by sticking our hands in it. It's not too hard to see just how

>well that idea has collectively worked for us.

 

I have to agree with you there, just ask New Orleans.

 

>And, beyond the realm of feeling there is the realm of listening - of

>connecting directly to the spirits in the stones and listening to

>them speak. In my listening over the last 14 or 15 years these stones

>spirits continue to cry out against these abuses -

 

You've got a lot more years tuning into the Spiritual side than I,

even though I've been collecting for about fifty years now. More on a

'specimen' level. It's only been since Peggy's Empowerment, and

becoming Reiki, that I have learned so much so fast!

 

>.................. But what if one day I decided I didn't like your

>hair and held you down and shaved your head?

 

Since I wear my hair long, I have actually had that done, and gum thrown in it!

 

>The stone spirits have a lot to say about this, if we'll listen.

 

My experiences seem to come more in spurts, or finding that the stone

*I* chose to wear that day was not the one that ends up in my hand. I

no longer question it. Often I'll choose a couple of stones to carry

in my pocket, wondering why a certain one is coming along, only to

find out that later in the day I'm told that a certain person is to

receive that one! Amazing! I no longer question it.

 

>But in order to get this lesson we have to be willing to hear things

>we don't like. We have to be willing to swallow bitter medicine.

>

>In Love,

>Fabeku

>--------------

 

I appreciate the way you have presented this aspect of the

discussion, as I said in the beginning, I had been trying to fathom

the situation from as many angles as I could!

 

Peace and Love,

Byron

[Guest guest]

Byron-

 

>

My experiences seem to come more in spurts, or finding that the stone

*I* chose to wear that day was not the one that ends up in my hand. I

no longer question it. Often I'll choose a couple of stones to carry

in my pocket, wondering why a certain one is coming along, only to

find out that later in the day I'm told that a certain person is to

receive that one! Amazing! I no longer question it.

>

 

I firmly believe that our heart ALWAYS knows the road, and knows

precisely which stone spirits can best guide in any moment. Our head

doesn't always know, but our heart holds a flawless knowing that can

be best realized through listening.

 

It's a great blessing to be able to be in this place without

questioning it, without having to have it " make sense " to our head

before we move ahead. There are just some places our head can't take

us. Those roads are, in my experience, usually the most remarkable

and magical of all.

 

> I appreciate the way you have presented this aspect of the

> discussion, as I said in the beginning, I had been trying to fathom

> the situation from as many angles as I could!

 

I'm glad my small offering has been helpful. I appreciate that you

opened this issue up to greater consideration and exploration. Thank

you.

 

I wanted to briefly share my experience on cut/carved/etc. stone

spirits. In general, I have found that most massive (read: non-

crystalline) stone spirits are not harmed by the act of being carved.

Crystals, on the other hand, can be significant compromised by being

polished, cut, etc.

 

Stone spirits that form crystals express their medicine through their

shape, form, angles, etc. They are critical to the expression of the

stone spirits medicine. Polishing the face of a Quartz crystal

compromises the medicine this spirit holds and expresses. On the

other hand, tumbling or polishing a massive, non-crystalline Quartz

spirit doesn't inherently compromise the medicine of this spirit.

 

The above reflects my own experience over the years. It may or may

not be true in anyone else's experience, but I offer it for

consideration.

 

Thanks for all you've shared. I'm grateful.

 

In Love,

Fabeku

--------------

Caretaker, Crystal_Spirit list

crystal_spirit_2/

 

dancing dragonfly - stone spirits to support a miraculous life!

http://www.dancing-dragonfly.com/

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Concerning:

>>By some of this reasoning I've been reading, we should not cut,

polish, mount in jewelry findings, ANY rock, stone, or mineral, as

that will change the Naturalism of it!<<

 

I agree - the energy of the crystal is influenced by having contact with

silver, gold or any other metal. I've found that opals shine (physically and

spiritually) when set in copper (copper is governed by venus and opals love

venus energy) - I made myself a Cabalistic talisman with opals set in copper.

Many healers claim that setting a stone means imprisoning it - but I've found

that although certain stones feel suffocated by being set in metal, other stones

feel safe and secure in metal and energized by it. The stone spirit is a

healer's spirit and it's happiest when it is given the privilege to heal –

therefore if a stone is cut as a massage tool, wand, etc. with the purpose to

heal it will feel honored. If a stone is heated with the purpose to heal it will

happily endure. Works of art also serve to maintain spiritual harmony and a

healthy spirit – so if a stone is made into a work of art it will happily agree.

But a stone is also a compassionate spirit and it experiences a sense of deep

suffering and trauma if it witnesses the abuse of people – like slave labor in

the different mines in the 3rd world. I have a tiny piece of Kyanite from

Switzerland which I bought for the same price as a large cluster imported from

India and I definitely feel the energy from the Swiss piece is purer and happier

than the piece from India – I cleansed both but the difference is still there.

Warmly,

Alisa

 

 

 

 

 

English Website: http://www.bareket57.biz/