Guest guest Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 Yehuda, I agree with you... It's not about hot or cold... it's about Qi stagnation and dampness/phlegm. On the following list, tea is cold, coffee is hot... orange juice is warming, tomatoes are cooling Most of the foods in the following list are acidic, however.... Citrus is acidic, but many have an alkalizing effect on the body. Tomatoes are actually alkalizing as well. and how come blueberries, which are acid forming, aren't on the acid-reflux list? Best thing is to limit the following foods and take Chinese herbs. I posted the following as well.: .... Hugo, Maybe the best way to go about this would be to look at the foods that create heartburn and see what they have in common from a Chinese medicine perspective... *Fruit*• Orange juice • Lemon • Lemonade • Grapefruit juice • Cranberry juice • Tomato *Vegetables* • Mashed potatoes • French fries • Onion, raw *Meat* • Ground beef, chuck • Marbled sirloin • Chicken nuggets • Buffalo wings *Dairy* • Sour cream • Milk shake • Ice cream • Cottage cheese, regular *Grains* • Macaroni and cheese • Spaghetti with sauce *Beverages* • Liquor • Wine • Coffee, decaffeinated or regular • Tea, decaffeinated or regular *Fats / Oils* • Salad dressing, creamy • Salad dressing, oil & vinegar *Sweets / Desserts* • Butter cookie, high-fat • Brownie • Chocolate • Doughnut • Corn chips • Potato chips, regular Looks like acidic fruits (sour) and greasy (damp forming) foods. The sour taste can aggravate the LV and hold phlegm and damp forming foods can stagnate the Qi mechanism (ST Qi rebellion) and further damage SP Qi... so LV attacking with a SP/ST disharmony? K On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 10:26 PM, wrote: > > > Dear colleagues and friends, > > It seems to me that tomatoes are indeed cold but they are also > astringent. That combination would lend itself to damp accumulation, > resulting in stagnation, fermentation, and reflux. Indeed as has been > suggested in this discussion, stagnation and Qi reversal manifests as heat. > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Hugo Ramiro <subincor<subincor%40>> > wrote: > > Hugo Ramiro <subincor <subincor%40>> > Re: Re: why do acidic foods increase smoking cravings? > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > Thursday, June 18, 2009, 7:07 PM > > Hi John! > > I will contest that as I have not noticed the same thing clinically - > meaning specifically that tomatoes seem to behave with a cold energetic > causing obstruction which then aggravates the heartburn. The reported > sensations differ between heartburn pain from tomatoes versus heartburn pain > from hot foods. > > That said, Mike did mention that even a little bit of acidity may cause > " threshold " patients to go over the edge, and this may be the case, > especially in the stomach itself, although I restate my point that acidic > *vegetables and fruit* stop being acid very fast. I should mention that the > only reason I bring up the weak acids / strong acids argument is to counter > the non-CM idea which demands that foods which we know (in > general) to create cooling effects to be classed as acidifying or " hot " > based on a theoretical consideration rather than the observation of a real > person. > > This whole problem is similar in my mind to a case from yesterday, where a > 45 yr old lady with some qi deficiency and yin deficiency was treated with > bio-identical hormones by a gynecologist (who apparently has written books > on the subject). The hormones were DHEA and progesterone and testosterone. > The treatment started a year ago, and this lady's assessment is that she has > not seen much change except that she is now growing hair in the areas where > she applies the testosterone cream. > > I had ignored the hormones because I can't counter this gynecologist but > over the last month it's been obvious that at least the testosterone is > aggravating her hot flashes since she seems to respond at half strength. > > The point being that this lady's bloodwork shows low testosterone levels > and according to this gynecologist' s best practices she is receiving the > medication indicated but there is clearly no good effect. This post I guess > is about keeping our nose to our ten questions, 8 principles and so forth. > > Thanks John (you often have useful quotations from the classics) and > everyone for keeping this forum so useful and lively, looking forward to the > next volley. > > Hugo > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Hugo Ramiro > http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com > http://www.chinesem edicaltherapies. org > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > > Thursday, 18 June, 2009 14:00:39 > Re: Re: why do acidic foods increase smoking cravings? > > The Basic Questions chap 74 " All that rebels and rushes upward is > associated with fire " > and " Vomiting and acid reflux are associated with heat. " > > For my patients who suffer from heartburn (acid reflux), even a small > amount > of tomatoes > or hot peppers will cause a lot of pain. > > K > > On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Alon, if you are replying to me then you are misreading my statement. > > > > Tomatoes do not cause heartburn. > > > > Hugo > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Hugo Ramiro > > http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com > > http://www.chinesem edicaltherapies. org > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > alon marcus <alonmarcus@ wans. net <alonmarcus% 40wans.net> > > > <Traditional_ > Chinese_Medicine %40. com> > > Thursday, 18 June, 2009 12:39:33 > > Re: why do acidic foods increase smoking cravings? > > > > > > I was replying to the statement that tomatoes, and by the way its > > usually only tomato sauces, cause " heart burn " because they are cold. > > If coldness was the mechanism then other cold foods should also cause > > this symptom, they do not. While its tempting to explain this by > > flavor it does not hold because for each of the flavor explanation you > > can find many of examples of the same flavor combinations that does > > not cause the symptom. > > > > > > > > 400 29th St. Suite 419 > > Oakland Ca 94609 > > > > > > www.integrativeheal thmedicine. com > > alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) net > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2009 Report Share Posted June 19, 2009 By the way, just a side, but here in beautiful SoCal, we are able to get in markets organic yellow grape tomatoes. They are not as cold as red tomatoes, are sweeter and are not acidic or astringent. Though not always available, they are a wonderful choice for someone having issues relating to middle jiao qi stagnation.  ciao,   --- On Fri, 6/19/09, <johnkokko wrote: <johnkokko Re: tomatoes Chinese Medicine Friday, June 19, 2009, 8:29 AM Yehuda, I agree with you... It's not about hot or cold... it's about Qi stagnation and dampness/phlegm. On the following list, tea is cold, coffee is hot... orange juice is warming, tomatoes are cooling Most of the foods in the following list are acidic, however.... Citrus is acidic, but many have an alkalizing effect on the body. Tomatoes are actually alkalizing as well. and how come blueberries, which are acid forming, aren't on the acid-reflux list? Best thing is to limit the following foods and take Chinese herbs. I posted the following as well.: .... Hugo, Maybe the best way to go about this would be to look at the foods that create heartburn and see what they have in common from a Chinese medicine perspective... *Fruit*• Orange juice • Lemon • Lemonade • Grapefruit juice • Cranberry juice • Tomato *Vegetables* • Mashed potatoes • French fries • Onion, raw *Meat* • Ground beef, chuck • Marbled sirloin • Chicken nuggets • Buffalo wings *Dairy* • Sour cream • Milk shake • Ice cream • Cottage cheese, regular *Grains* • Macaroni and cheese • Spaghetti with sauce *Beverages* • Liquor • Wine • Coffee, decaffeinated or regular • Tea, decaffeinated or regular *Fats / Oils* • Salad dressing, creamy • Salad dressing, oil & vinegar *Sweets / Desserts* • Butter cookie, high-fat • Brownie • Chocolate • Doughnut • Corn chips • Potato chips, regular Looks like acidic fruits (sour) and greasy (damp forming) foods. The sour taste can aggravate the LV and hold phlegm and damp forming foods can stagnate the Qi mechanism (ST Qi rebellion) and further damage SP Qi... so LV attacking with a SP/ST disharmony? K On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 10:26 PM, wrote: > > > Dear colleagues and friends, > > It seems to me that tomatoes are indeed cold but they are also > astringent. That combination would lend itself to damp accumulation, > resulting in stagnation, fermentation, and reflux. Indeed as has been > suggested in this discussion, stagnation and Qi reversal manifests as heat. > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/18/09, Hugo Ramiro <subincor<subincor%40>> > wrote: > > Hugo Ramiro <subincor <subincor%40>> > Re: Re: why do acidic foods increase smoking cravings? > To: Chinese Medicine <Chinese Medicine%40yaho\ ogroups.com> > Thursday, June 18, 2009, 7:07 PM > > Hi John! > > I will contest that as I have not noticed the same thing clinically - > meaning specifically that tomatoes seem to behave with a cold energetic > causing obstruction which then aggravates the heartburn. The reported > sensations differ between heartburn pain from tomatoes versus heartburn pain > from hot foods. > > That said, Mike did mention that even a little bit of acidity may cause > " threshold " patients to go over the edge, and this may be the case, > especially in the stomach itself, although I restate my point that acidic > *vegetables and fruit* stop being acid very fast. I should mention that the > only reason I bring up the weak acids / strong acids argument is to counter > the non-CM idea which demands that foods which we know (in > general) to create cooling effects to be classed as acidifying or " hot " > based on a theoretical consideration rather than the observation of a real > person. > > This whole problem is similar in my mind to a case from yesterday, where a > 45 yr old lady with some qi deficiency and yin deficiency was treated with > bio-identical hormones by a gynecologist (who apparently has written books > on the subject). The hormones were DHEA and progesterone and testosterone. > The treatment started a year ago, and this lady's assessment is that she has > not seen much change except that she is now growing hair in the areas where > she applies the testosterone cream. > > I had ignored the hormones because I can't counter this gynecologist but > over the last month it's been obvious that at least the testosterone is > aggravating her hot flashes since she seems to respond at half strength. > > The point being that this lady's bloodwork shows low testosterone levels > and according to this gynecologist' s best practices she is receiving the > medication indicated but there is clearly no good effect. This post I guess > is about keeping our nose to our ten questions, 8 principles and so forth. > > Thanks John (you often have useful quotations from the classics) and > everyone for keeping this forum so useful and lively, looking forward to the > next volley. > > Hugo > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Hugo Ramiro > http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com > http://www.chinesem edicaltherapies. org > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > <johnkokko (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > > Thursday, 18 June, 2009 14:00:39 > Re: Re: why do acidic foods increase smoking cravings? > > The Basic Questions chap 74 " All that rebels and rushes upward is > associated with fire " > and " Vomiting and acid reflux are associated with heat. " > > For my patients who suffer from heartburn (acid reflux), even a small > amount > of tomatoes > or hot peppers will cause a lot of pain. > > K > > On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Hugo Ramiro <subincor > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Alon, if you are replying to me then you are misreading my statement. > > > > Tomatoes do not cause heartburn. > > > > Hugo > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Hugo Ramiro > > http://middlemedici ne.wordpress. com > > http://www.chinesem edicaltherapies. org > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > alon marcus <alonmarcus@ wans. net <alonmarcus% 40wans.net> > > > <Traditional_ > Chinese_Medicine %40. com> > > Thursday, 18 June, 2009 12:39:33 > > Re: why do acidic foods increase smoking cravings? > > > > > > I was replying to the statement that tomatoes, and by the way its > > usually only tomato sauces, cause " heart burn " because they are cold. > > If coldness was the mechanism then other cold foods should also cause > > this symptom, they do not. While its tempting to explain this by > > flavor it does not hold because for each of the flavor explanation you > > can find many of examples of the same flavor combinations that does > > not cause the symptom. > > > > > > > > 400 29th St. Suite 419 > > Oakland Ca 94609 > > > > > > www.integrativeheal thmedicine. com > > alonmarcus (AT) wans (DOT) net > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 The first pickings of my beautiful heirloom tomatoes. :-) Cyndi An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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