Expensive pee vs. insufficient doses!

June 1, 2008

, you opened Pandora's box, saying that it's OK to bombard this list with questions. I've been holding off, especially with ones like this, for which there may be no known answer.I've been taking supplements for quite a while. Hardly any give dose by body weight. Should someone who weighs 250 lbs take the same dose as someone who weighs 125 lbs?

History: When I began the Budwig Protocol, I immediately started to gain weight. By cutting all meals down, I managed to slow the weight gain, but not stop it. But doing that is very unbalanced; loss of many nutrients from tiny portions. Never feeling hungry. Eventually, I decided that I must be saturated with the mix, and reduced my doses. Slow and comfortable weight loss for the past two months.

The LowDoseNaltrexone list for cancer said that one reason some people are less successful than others may be that the recommended dose for everyone may be too low for the heavier ones. It may be too high for the lighter ones; will ask that group.

Well, I'm asking. Any ideas about how to adjust the doses of OPC and/or oleander for someone who will soon be weighing 115 lbs. And other supplements too. I really don't like having expensive pee, especially because my budget is so very tight.

Rhoda

June 1, 2008

I'm not , but I do have a couple of cents worth to add here:

First of all, everyone can adjust their supplements according to body

weight. Just figure that most supplement dose recommendations are

figured on a 180 pound person. In most cases, taking the full

recommended amount is just fine. I certainly would not take less

oleander (though it is always a good idea to start off small and work

your way up). If I were very large, I would take a bit more though.

If you are worried about expensive pee, add bromelain. It is a

wonderful binder and has a lot of great healing properties of it's

own. Your pee will likely lose some of it's color if you take

vitamins and minerals and other supplements that color the urine from

the amounts that are passed through without absorption. Virtually

nothing is absorbed 100%, including mainstream medications. In one

test, bromelain resulted in 2 1/2 times the absorption of the common

anti-biotic amoxycillin.

For more info:

Bromelain - The Wonder Supplement

/bromelain.htm

oleander soup , " Rhoda Mead " <firefly541 wrote:

>

> *, you opened Pandora's box, saying that it's OK to bombard

this list

> with questions. I've been holding off, especially with ones like

this, for

> which there may be no known answer.

>

> I've been taking supplements for quite a while. Hardly any give dose

by body

> weight. Should someone who weighs 250 lbs take the same dose as

someone who

> weighs 125 lbs?

> History: When I began the Budwig Protocol, I immediately started

to gain

> weight. By cutting all meals down, I managed to slow the weight

gain, but

> not stop it. But doing that is very unbalanced; loss of many

nutrients from

> tiny portions. Never feeling hungry. Eventually, I decided that I

must be

> saturated with the mix, and reduced my doses. Slow and comfortable

weight

> loss for the past two months.

> The LowDoseNaltrexone list for cancer said that one reason some

people

> are less successful than others may be that the recommended dose for

> everyone may be too low for the heavier ones. It may be too high for the

> lighter ones; will ask that group.

>

> Well, I'm asking. Any ideas about how to adjust the doses of OPC

and/or

> oleander for someone who will soon be weighing 115 lbs. And other

> supplements too. I really don't like having expensive pee, especially

> because my budget is so very tight.

> Rhoda

> *

>

June 2, 2008

I’ll take a stab at this.

Because everyone’s biochemistry and metabolism are different, the amount

of nutrients and vitamins that the body actually absorbs, assimiliates and utilizes

will be different – not because of weight necessarily but because of HOW

the body uses a supplement. For instance, if someone is highly deficient in a

vitamin they will need more to clear up a deficiency. Some vitamins are dosed

according to bowel tolerance. Vitamin C is one of these. And because of the

digestive disorders that run rampant such as Chrone’s, Leaky Gut Syndrome,

Constipation and Celiac, absorbtion will be minimal at best. Most likely ¾ of

the population suffers from some type of digestive disorder. Also, the liver

has much to do with this, also. Most people have sluggish livers (it’s

the main filter of the body and with the toxic food in the SAD, it continually

gets bombarded!) and many have gall-bladders that do not function well. And

the delivery sytem of the nutrient is also important – capsules, tablets

(the worse delivery system in my opinion), enteric-coated, liquid. All of this

must be factored in when we consider how well a person will be able to absorb

nutrients – thus affecting what the exact dosage should be. This is why,

in my opinion, the digestive tract/liver gallbladder needs to be periodically

cleansed, especially for those that are fighting dis-ease. If there are

absorption difficulties in the digestive tract, then there will be immune

concerns which can lead to disease.

Most instructions on supplement bottles are not therapeutic dosaging, but

instead for people who are actually “supplementing”. Remember, that

is why it is called a supplement – it is not meant to take the place of

food which should always be the primary source of nutrients. It is “in

addition to”. Practitioners who see patients come to recgonize “patterns”

with certain health concerns, again, because everyone is different it is

usually a trial-and-error type of situation. When we use therapeuctic dosaging

it is usually because the body is dis-eased and will need much more help than a

“recommended dosage” found on the supplement bottle. I would urge

extreme caution here and obtain the advice of a professional before attempting

therapeutic dosaging. Blood labs, health history, prescription meds, etc. must

be known before using therpeutic dosaging. I am dismayed when some of the

present a one-size-fits-all supplement protocol. There are a lot

of things that need to be looked at before deciding on correct dosaging. And

just because a certain dosage works for one doesn’t mean it will do the

same thing for someone else – certainly, it CAN, but there are no “done-deals”

in this area.

In natural medicine, we do not have the luxury of clinical studies, which

really don’t mean much to begin with, but they can actually help with

determining dosaging requirements. Dosaging for oleader has come from several

studies and also from the studies that Marc has done in Africa. So usually,

somewhere down the line, someone has done some informal studies with particular

supplements, therefore a “recommendation” can be made. Synthetic

vitamins will have very low dosage recommendations on the bottle because they

are using the RDA recommendations for vitamins (which are ridiculously low) and

thus not very helpful, which leads to why supplementation get a bad rap. If you

don’t use a therpeutic dosage to help or make a difference then obviously

they will NOT work. Not rocket science.

In the case of flaxseed, because it is a food, there is a

possibility that the amount could be lowered and still be effective. I would

imagine that Dr. B gave out a protocol, in her book, that would mostly likely

work for many, if not most. However, I know that she understood the importance

of individual bio-chemistry and there is no way that she could include amounts

that would work for absolutely everyone. Cutting down a bit, in my opinion,

would be better than not doing it at all. Also, using organic yogurt (prepared

the correct way) rather than cottage cheese may be better on the system. And I

would question “why” weight gain was happening because for most

people the opposite is true. I have found that if people are not doing the protocol

militantly (definition of militantly – 24/7 entire program with no

cheating and no “off” days) or adding foods that contain bad

fats/oils or drinking too much fruit juice/adding too much honey/agave nectar

then weight gain would be expected. And there is always the possibility that the

liver/gallbladder is not processing the oil properly. You see, it can end up

being a very individual thing. The only way to know if cutting back will work

for someone, is to try it and see and unfortunately there are no guarantees. While

the cancer protocol that I did was not Dr. B’s, I did consume

3-Tablespoons of Udo’s Oil in freshly juiced vegetable juice every daiy –

2 tablespoons in the AM and 1 tablespoon in the evening. I was able to handle

it just fine, no weight gain – in fact I lost weight, which I needed to

do – and 2 months before I started my natural program I had gallbladder

surgery (another story). So if anyone should have had trouble, I should have.

With Oleander, I would HIGHLY suggest beginning at lower dosages and then

building up, unless you are fighting time. If you experience side-effects such

as what Marc lists at his site that are serious, then it would be wise to cut

back for a while and then try to build up at very slowly or contact Marc for

directions. I believe that Oleander has enough study behind it to where we can

basically trust the dosaging. Cutting back to save money might not be the

wisest thing to do. You will also have to decide which side-effects are “normal”

and which are not – what may be detoxification symptoms and what are

not. Basically, I would say that Oleander is very, very safe; however, we need

to maintain a healthy respect for all herbs and plants. God gave us plants

and herbs for our healing and they can be very powerful.

The “expensive pee” is something that has been coined by

conventional medicine. There is no such thing, in my opinion, IF you are using

good quality, food-grade supplements. For water soluable vitamins, the body

will use what it needs and discard the rest. For fat soluable vitamins which are

stored by the body, a bit of caution needs to be observed. However, again, if

the right type are used there should not be much worry as the RDA is much too

low for most of these vitamins. As our foods get more and more adulterated,

the more food-grade supplementation the body will need.

One more thing. If you are taking any type of prescription drugs then it is a

whole new ballgame. Please, please make sure that you have a professional that

can help you with supplementation. No person on any knows your

complete health history, even if you “think” you have told all. I

have spent 2 hours with people taking a health history and when I say, “ok

we have 15 minutes left—anything else I need to know?” – I get

more information in those 15 minutes than I did in the previous 2 hours! J Your health history along with

meds you have taken in the past and present are very important.

And then, the last thing is the emotional aspect. I always mentione this

because it is VERY important in healing. People who have gone through

stressful situations, emotional concerns, deaths of family, divorce,

empty-nest, job stresses, anger, loss of job, negative emotions, negative

family members who don’t support you, stressful moves, job changes, etc.

need to understand that this DOES affect your healing. Working on the emotions

is important for whole-body healing and is an absolute must in every instance,

especially those with cancer.

Well, maybe this has helped or maybe I have just muddied the waters. Natural

medicine just does not fit into the conventional medicine mold – nor should

it. It is a whole different philosophy on how the body develops

illiness/disease and how it heals. So what goes for conventional medicine

usually does not really apply to natural medicine.

Be Well

Loretta

I've been taking supplements for quite a while. Hardly any give dose by body

weight. Should someone who weighs 250 lbs take the same dose as someone who

weighs 125 lbs?

History: When I began the Budwig Protocol, I immediately started to gain

weight. By cutting all meals down, I managed to slow the weight gain, but not

stop it. But doing that is very unbalanced; loss of many nutrients from tiny

portions. Never feeling hungry. Eventually, I decided that I must be saturated

with the mix, and reduced my doses. Slow and comfortable weight loss for the

past two months.

The LowDoseNaltrexone list for cancer said that one reason some

people are less successful than others may be that the recommended dose for

everyone may be too low for the heavier ones. It may be too high for the

lighter ones; will ask that group.

Well, I'm asking. Any ideas about how to adjust the doses of OPC

and/or oleander for someone who will soon be weighing 115 lbs. And other

supplements too. I really don't like having expensive pee, especially because

my budget is so very tight.

Rhoda

June 3, 2008

Hugs for you too.

A great answer and I'm sure It came from big pharma. or the _ _ _ the most evil control since the gestapo in europe of Edi Amin in Uganda.

Bill

-

May

oleander soup

2008-06-01 11:00

Re: Expensive pee vs. insufficient doses!

Body weight? I never gave any thought of that with regard tosupplements and I invite others to jump in.Okay, here's my take on the whole thing. I would rather be safe andhave my body take what it needs and discard the rest than to try toguage what I would need by weight. My health is too valuable. I'vebeen at the point where I was quite ill with anxiety panic, asthma,fibromyalgia, and probaby CFS too, as fibromyalgia and CFS go hand inhand and I never want to go back there again. Of course, overdosing isnever recommended but taking the dosage recommended on the label, by anaturopath, or someone in the know would be my priority.Again, the term "expensive pee" comes from the media, another yet subtlebut effective scare tactic and one which is also used to discredit theworth of supplements.And, when you weigh the cost of supplements vs. the cost of prescriptionmedicines there is no comparison.With regard to OPC, I think I will leave that question to Tony and Marc.However, I would take it as directed. Our health is too precious andimportant.Hope I helped.Hugs,oleander soup , "Rhoda Mead" <firefly541wrote:>> *, you opened Pandora's box, saying that it's OK to bombard thislist> with questions. I've been holding off, especially with ones like this,for> which there may be no known answer.>> I've been taking supplements for quite a while. Hardly any give doseby body> weight. Should someone who weighs 250 lbs take the same dose assomeone who> weighs 125 lbs?> History: When I began the Budwig Protocol, I immediately started togain> weight. By cutting all meals down, I managed to slow the weight gain,but> not stop it. But doing that is very unbalanced; loss of many nutrientsfrom> tiny portions. Never feeling hungry. Eventually, I decided that I mustbe> saturated with the mix, and reduced my doses. Slow and comfortableweight> loss for the past two months.> The LowDoseNaltrexone list for cancer said that one reason some people> are less successful than others may be that the recommended dose for> everyone may be too low for the heavier ones. It may be too high forthe> lighter ones; will ask that group.>> Well, I'm asking. Any ideas about how to adjust the doses of OPCand/or> oleander for someone who will soon be weighing 115 lbs. And other> supplements too. I really don't like having expensive pee, especially> because my budget is so very tight.> Rhoda> *>