Guest guest Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 Thanks for the info. Looks like a very good site for arthritis. I will point out, though, that when it comes to oleander I DID answer the original question. oleander soup , " cool_man " <jimmyhis wrote: > > If you go to this site http://www.arthritistrust.org/ and read the > book the art of getting well,it might answer your question in regards > to the auto-immune problem. you can down load all there books for free > great site > > Jimmy > > > oleander soup , " Gaiacita " <gaiacita@> wrote: > > > > That's the problem with auto-immune. Any type of immune stimulant > can make > > the situation worse. Adaptogens seem to be the answer, but it's > hard to use > > your own pet as a guinea pig. There are few immune adaptogens so > all would > > be experimentation. > > > > I'm always confused by auto-immune problems. I just think our > system is NOT > > made to do this, ever. If it was normal then we'd all be dead. I just > > haven't figured out why the body does this. I can understand organs > in the > > body going wrong, I can see the immune system getting overwhelmed > and unable > > to keep up, but the body attacking itself? Just doesn't make sense. > It's > > got to be something wrong with the signals the immune sys it receiving. > > Wrong intercellular communication. But how to get it all to start > > communicating again? I'm going to check out that mushroom product > more. My > > friend that told me about it mentioned one other product that is > suppose to > > do the same thing, but I can't think of it now. I'll have to talk > to her > > again. > > > > Samala, > > Renee > > > > ---- > > > > Oleander is considered an immune stimulant, although I don't > know how > > it would effect a dog with an overactive immune system. I own a dog > with > > hemolytic anemia, on occasion his immune system attacks his RBC's, > making > > him dangerously anemic. He has had 4 bouts of this and needed a > transfusion > > each time... it kills them quickly without it, usually in a day or > two if > > not caught early. I'm forced to give him prednisone and cyclosporine to > > suppress him immune system. I wish there was something out there > that would > > stop his immune system from attacking him. I've tried proteolytic > enzymes, > > probiotics, etc. His health is great but he still gets the attacks. I > > think it was triggered by a rabies shot about 6 years ago. His > first bout > > happend about two months after that. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 25, 2008 Report Share Posted May 25, 2008 I do raw feed, and don't vaccinate. I am going to have my female spayed this year though, and here in TX rabies is mandatory. Unfortunately it is mandatory every year--I just don't do it for any of my pets. We rarely need to go to a vet so when I do have to take anyone and the vet asks I just say yes, they've been vaccinated, and they haven't yet asked for proof. I don't know of a local vet that will use a titers test, or exempt a healthy dog from the rabies. They won't do a spay without proof of rabies vac or giving the vac. I had read the lemon juice thing specifically about rabies vaccination, but then someone said it also worked for any vaccine. Samala, Renee ---- This is not true, Renee. Once the poison is injected, that is that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 Renee, The state of Texas is a 3 year rabies state. Maybe your city/county demands annual. There are ways and not all vets will demand it. Is there a reason to spay? Have you joined the truth about vaccinations ? They have things in the files that people use to make their own proof. Remember proof is a piece of paper. If the dog is healthy, then, you might want to do research on the dangers of spaying before going ahead. Don't know where you are, but Dr. Bob Rogers is fighting the vaccine debacle. If he is not near you, he may know a vet who will spay without poisoning your dog.. There is also Dr. Will Falconer is in Austin. http://www.critterfixer.com/ http://alt4animals.com/about.htm Also, have you spoken directly to the vet? The receptionist or tech will only spew out the party line. If you feel you must spay and you must vax, please do it separately!!! This of paramount importance. Never vax at the same time as any surgery or anesthesia. And are you so sure your dog is healthy? Allergies, skin issues, itching are all signs of chronic disease and a sign of unhealthy. Ear infections. Please check out TAV before going ahead. Good luck. Nonie I do raw feed, and don't vaccinate. I am going to have my female spayed this year though, and here in TX rabies is mandatory. Unfortunately it is mandatory every year--I just don't do it for any of my pets. We rarely need to go to a vet so when I do have to take anyone and the vet asks I just say yes, they've been vaccinated, and they haven't yet asked for proof. I don't know of a local vet that will use a titers test, or exempt a healthy dog from the rabies. They won't do a spay without proof of rabies vac or giving the vac. I had read the lemon juice thing specifically about rabies vaccination, but then someone said it also worked for any vaccine. Samala, Renee ---- This is not true, Renee. Once the poison is injected, that is that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 I do know all about the dangers of vaccines, which is why I don't do it. My county requires a yearly rabies, as the decision was left up to each county, even though Texas law says every 3 years is fine. My girl is 2 years old. I'm having her spayed because she's large and it's a mess every 6 months. She seems to stay in heat for 2 to 3 weeks, blood all over as she's allowed on the furniture. She's 50 pounds so it's lots of blood. I bought panties for her and she was great about wearing them, which alleviated much of the mess--until she chewed through the panty one day just before her heat ended. As I have no intentions of breeding her I see no reason to keep her intact. I have read the health issues, which is why I have waited this long. I don't like even rabies vaccinations, but am willing to do this once, and then get titer tests after that. My reason being that I have had a run-in with non rabies vac and my other dog. He was about 10 at the time, and had never had arthritis. We got up one morning and he couldn't move. Being as how he had never done this before, or shown signs of arthritis, I didn't know what was wrong and took him to the vet. We carried him in as he couldn't walk (hurt too much). When the girl came to take him in back she bent right down by his face to lift him up. I told her not to do that as he bites strangers. She laughed and said she would be fine. So we had to leave him for blood work. In about a half hour I get a phone call asking if he had his rabies shot. I say no, why. They said that when the girl went to stick him for blood he bit her, and without a rabies paper they had to quarantine him for 10 days. They did it at their expense because I had warned them, but still--my poor dog was kept there for 10 days and we weren't even allowed to visit him--against the law they said. He had been in pain and we dropped him off, and as far as he was concerned he must have thought we abandoned him and were not coming back. Even though the arthritis pain had gone away by the time we got him back, he looked as if he had aged years, and acted that way, all depressed, for months. I was so angry but there was absolutely nothing I could do. So I'm always nervous about the girl not having her shots, just in case someone got bit, or some stupid accident that wasn't even her fault happened, she'd be the one to be blamed. I will allow the one rabies shot, which is all that is required by law here. Then have her fixed. My dog is healthy. Zero problems. Samala, Renee ---- The state of Texas is a 3 year rabies state. Maybe your city/county demands annual. There are ways and not all vets will demand it. Is there a reason to spay? Have you joined the truth about vaccinations ? They have things in the files that people use to make their own proof. Remember proof is a piece of paper. If the dog is healthy, then, you might want to do research on the dangers of spaying before going ahead. Don't know where you are, but Dr. Bob Rogers is fighting the vaccine debacle. If he is not near you, he may know a vet who will spay without poisoning your dog.. There is also Dr. Will Falconer is in Austin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 Samala, Good for you for spaying your girl there are too many unwanted dogs lanquishing at the shelters. People just keep breeding and not thinking of the consquences, it affects all of us in many ways, not to many the tons of tax dollars it costs each county yearly to kill all the unadopted dogs each year in the shelters approx $55,000 per county. Tammatha Tammatha - Gaiacita oleander soup Sunday, May 25, 2008 9:20 PM Re: [!! SPAM] Re: Autoimmune question I do know all about the dangers of vaccines, which is why I don't do it. My county requires a yearly rabies, as the decision was left up to each county, even though Texas law says every 3 years is fine. My girl is 2 years old. I'm having her spayed because she's large and it's a mess every 6 months. She seems to stay in heat for 2 to 3 weeks, blood all over as she's allowed on the furniture. She's 50 pounds so it's lots of blood. I bought panties for her and she was great about wearing them, which alleviated much of the mess--until she chewed through the panty one day just before her heat ended. As I have no intentions of breeding her I see no reason to keep her intact. I have read the health issues, which is why I have waited this long. I don't like even rabies vaccinations, but am willing to do this once, and then get titer tests after that. My reason being that I have had a run-in with non rabies vac and my other dog. He was about 10 at the time, and had never had arthritis. We got up one morning and he couldn't move. Being as how he had never done this before, or shown signs of arthritis, I didn't know what was wrong and took him to the vet. We carried him in as he couldn't walk (hurt too much). When the girl came to take him in back she bent right down by his face to lift him up. I told her not to do that as he bites strangers. She laughed and said she would be fine. So we had to leave him for blood work. In about a half hour I get a phone call asking if he had his rabies shot. I say no, why. They said that when the girl went to stick him for blood he bit her, and without a rabies paper they had to quarantine him for 10 days. They did it at their expense because I had warned them, but still--my poor dog was kept there for 10 days and we weren't even ! allowed to visit him--against the law they said. He had been in pain and we dropped him off, and as far as he was concerned he must have thought we abandoned him and were not coming back. Even though the arthritis pain had gone away by the time we got him back, he looked as if he had aged years, and acted that way, all depressed, for months. I was so angry but there was absolutely nothing I could do. So I'm always nervous about the girl not having her shots, just in case someone got bit, or some stupid accident that wasn't even her fault happened, she'd be the one to be blamed. I will allow the one rabies shot, which is all that is required by law here. Then have her fixed. My dog is healthy. Zero problems. Samala, Renee ---- The state of Texas is a 3 year rabies state. Maybe your city/county demands annual. There are ways and not all vets will demand it. Is there a reason to spay? Have you joined the truth about vaccinations ? They have things in the files that people use to make their own proof. Remember proof is a piece of paper. If the dog is healthy, then, you might want to do research on the dangers of spaying before going ahead. Don't know where you are, but Dr. Bob Rogers is fighting the vaccine debacle. If he is not near you, he may know a vet who will spay without poisoning your dog.. There is also Dr. Will Falconer is in Austin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 I know. I found my girl and her NINE brothers and sisters, in a brush pile on our other property. We never could catch her Mom--she was so wild, but such a good mom, and after about 2 weeks of hanging around after I took the puppies (so they wouldn't also be wild and then we'd have a pack of wild dogs running loose) she finally left the area. The pups were only about 5 or 6 weeks old (closer to 5 I think) and too young to take from their Mom, but I knew that if I didn't she'd move them, and then eventually they'd be hunted down and killed. I did find good homes for the other 9 though. My girl is not allowed to run, and there are no loose dogs running here, but better safe than sorry. :-) Samala, Renee ---- Good for you for spaying your girl there are too many unwanted dogs lanquishing at the shelters. People just keep breeding and not thinking of the consquences, it affects all of us in many ways, not to many the tons of tax dollars it costs each county yearly to kill all the unadopted dogs each year in the shelters approx $55,000 per county. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 Tammatha wrote: > > I do know all about the dangers of vaccines, which is why I don't do > it. My county requires a yearly rabies, as the decision was left up > to each county, even though Texas law says every 3 years is fine. > > My girl is 2 years old. I'm having her spayed because she's large > and it's a mess every 6 months. She seems to stay in heat for 2 to > 3 weeks, blood all over as she's allowed on the furniture. She's 50 > pounds so it's lots of blood. I bought panties for her and she was > great about wearing them, which alleviated much of the mess--until > she chewed through the panty one day just before her heat ended. As > I have no intentions of breeding her I see no reason to keep her > intact. I have read the health issues, which is why I have waited > this long. Did you read this one? It presents the facts on both sides of this. http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf At times there are reasons to spay but I'm one that tries all options before that happens because of the risks. > > I don't like even rabies vaccinations, but am willing to do this > once, and then get titer tests after that. My reason being that I > have had a run-in with non rabies vac and my other dog. You should try a titers test before you have the shot. The titers will only tell you if the dog has been exposed recently, and sometimes a dog will have a natural immunity but hasn't been around another dog to stimulate the antibodies. Dogs can have that immunity without the shot. Dogs can have immunity and not show it on at titers test. > > He was about 10 at the time, and had never had arthritis. We got up > one morning and he couldn't move. Being as how he had never done > this before, or shown signs of arthritis, I didn't know what > was wrong and took him to the vet. We carried him in as he couldn't > walk (hurt too much). When the girl came to take him in back she > bent right down by his face to lift him up. I told her not to do > that as he bites strangers. She laughed and said she would be > fine. So we had to leave him for blood work. In about a half hour > I get a phone call asking if he had his rabies shot. I say no, > why. They said that when the girl went to stick him for blood he > bit her, and without a rabies paper they had to quarantine him for > 10 days. They did it at their expense because I had warned them, > but still--my poor dog was kept there for 10 days and we weren't > even ! allowed to visit him--against the law they said. He had been > in pain and we dropped him off, and as far as he was concerned he > must have thought we abandoned him and were not coming back. Even > though the arthritis pain had gone away by the time we got him back, > he looked as if he had aged years, and acted that way, all > depressed, for months. I was so angry but there was absolutely > nothing I could do. What state are you in? Here in Florida we are allowed to quarantine in our own homes and have the dog with us, just away from the other dogs. I'm so sorry you and the dog had to go through that, especially when it is most likely that there was no law against you seeing him. > > So I'm always nervous about the girl not having her shots, just in > case someone got bit, or some stupid accident that wasn't even her > fault happened, she'd be the one to be blamed. I will allow the > one rabies shot, which is all that is required by law here. Then > have her fixed. I've had that happen. My dog was quarantined at home and made to get the shot. I think a part of the reason they were reasonable with me was that I had adopted the dog from their shelter with them knowing he had bit someone previously. He is now dying of heart failure, which very well may be due to the shots. Cyndi > > My dog is healthy. Zero problems. > > Samala, > Renee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 As far as human vaccinations go the only safe vaccination is a tetanus shot correct? Or do you guys refuse that even? Are they dangerous as well? I just want to know if I should refuse that the next time i'm due. I am a 36 year old guy. After all the reading I have done about the dangers of vaccines I have refused to get a flu shot for the last 3 years even though my doctor always tries to push it. And guess what all 3 years now I have not even had the flu anyways. Just a cold once a year. Anyone know if there are any shots that you DON'T want to avoid though like a tetanus shot or should EVERY shot be avoided? Are there ever exceptions or no?Thanks in advance! :-)--- On Mon, 5/26/08, cyndiann9 <cyndiann9 wrote:cyndiann9 <cyndiann9Re: [!! SPAM] Re: Autoimmune questionoleander soup Date: Monday, May 26, 2008, 9:21 AM Tammatha wrote: > > I do know all about the dangers of vaccines, which is why I don't do > it. My county requires a yearly rabies, as the decision was left up > to each county, even though Texas law says every 3 years is fine. > > My girl is 2 years old. I'm having her spayed because she's large > and it's a mess every 6 months. She seems to stay in heat for 2 to > 3 weeks, blood all over as she's allowed on the furniture. She's 50 > pounds so it's lots of blood. I bought panties for her and she was > great about wearing them, which alleviated much of the mess--until > she chewed through the panty one day just before her heat ended. As > I have no intentions of breeding her I see no reason to keep her > intact. I have read the health issues, which is why I have waited > this long. Did you read this one? It presents the facts on both sides of this. http://www.naiaonli ne.org/pdfs/ LongTermHealthEf fectsOfSpayNeute rInDogs.pdf At times there are reasons to spay but I'm one that tries all options before that happens because of the risks. > > I don't like even rabies vaccinations, but am willing to do this > once, and then get titer tests after that. My reason being that I > have had a run-in with non rabies vac and my other dog. You should try a titers test before you have the shot. The titers will only tell you if the dog has been exposed recently, and sometimes a dog will have a natural immunity but hasn't been around another dog to stimulate the antibodies. Dogs can have that immunity without the shot. Dogs can have immunity and not show it on at titers test. > > He was about 10 at the time, and had never had arthritis. We got up > one morning and he couldn't move. Being as how he had never done > this before, or shown signs of arthritis, I didn't know what > was wrong and took him to the vet. We carried him in as he couldn't > walk (hurt too much). When the girl came to take him in back she > bent right down by his face to lift him up. I told her not to do > that as he bites strangers. She laughed and said she would be > fine. So we had to leave him for blood work. In about a half hour > I get a phone call asking if he had his rabies shot. I say no, > why. They said that when the girl went to stick him for blood he > bit her, and without a rabies paper they had to quarantine him for > 10 days. They did it at their expense because I had warned them, > but still--my poor dog was kept there for 10 days and we weren't > even ! allowed to visit him--against the law they said. He had been > in pain and we dropped him off, and as far as he was concerned he > must have thought we abandoned him and were not coming back. Even > though the arthritis pain had gone away by the time we got him back, > he looked as if he had aged years, and acted that way, all > depressed, for months. I was so angry but there was absolutely > nothing I could do. What state are you in? Here in Florida we are allowed to quarantine in our own homes and have the dog with us, just away from the other dogs. I'm so sorry you and the dog had to go through that, especially when it is most likely that there was no law against you seeing him. > > So I'm always nervous about the girl not having her shots, just in > case someone got bit, or some stupid accident that wasn't even her > fault happened, she'd be the one to be blamed. I will allow the > one rabies shot, which is all that is required by law here. Then > have her fixed. I've had that happen. My dog was quarantined at home and made to get the shot. I think a part of the reason they were reasonable with me was that I had adopted the dog from their shelter with them knowing he had bit someone previously. He is now dying of heart failure, which very well may be due to the shots. Cyndi > > My dog is healthy. Zero problems. > > Samala, > Renee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 Travis, If I were you I'd refuse the tetanus vaccine. It's made on eggs, so if you're allergic to them it can be dangerous. Also, it contains both mercury and formaldehyde as preservatives. Not something you would want to put into your body. Tetanus is good for at least ten years, and some say once is enough for a lifetime of immunity. Something to think about. Unless you stepped on a rusty nail or got bit by a snake or something, I'd just refuse it. This is all just my opinion of course. - Travis Sorensen oleander soup Monday, May 26, 2008 1:53 PM Re: [!! SPAM] Re: Autoimmune question As far as human vaccinations go the only safe vaccination is a tetanus shot correct? Or do you guys refuse that even? Are they dangerous as well? I just want to know if I should refuse that the next time i'm due. I am a 36 year old guy. After all the reading I have done about the dangers of vaccines I have refused to get a flu shot for the last 3 years even though my doctor always tries to push it. And guess what all 3 years now I have not even had the flu anyways. Just a cold once a year. Anyone know if there are any shots that you DON'T want to avoid though like a tetanus shot or should EVERY shot be avoided? Are there ever exceptions or no?Thanks in advance! :-)--- On Mon, 5/26/08, cyndiann9 <cyndiann9 wrote: cyndiann9 <cyndiann9Re: [!! SPAM] Re: Autoimmune questionoleander soup Date: Monday, May 26, 2008, 9:21 AM Tammatha wrote:> > I do know all about the dangers of vaccines, which is why I don't do> it. My county requires a yearly rabies, as the decision was left up> to each county, even though Texas law says every 3 years is fine. > > My girl is 2 years old. I'm having her spayed because she's large> and it's a mess every 6 months. She seems to stay in heat for 2 to> 3 weeks, blood all over as she's allowed on the furniture. She's 50> pounds so it's lots of blood. I bought panties for her and she was> great about wearing them, which alleviated much of the mess--until> she chewed through the panty one day just before her heat ended. As> I have no intentions of breeding her I see no reason to keep her> intact. I have read the health issues, which is why I have waited> this long. Did you read this one? It presents the facts on both sides of this.http://www.naiaonli ne.org/pdfs/ LongTermHealthEf fectsOfSpayNeute rInDogs.pdfAt times there are reasons to spay but I'm one that tries all options before that happens because of the risks.> > I don't like even rabies vaccinations, but am willing to do this> once, and then get titer tests after that. My reason being that I> have had a run-in with non rabies vac and my other dog.You should try a titers test before you have the shot. The titers will only tell you if the dog has been exposed recently, and sometimes a dog will have a natural immunity but hasn't been around another dog to stimulate the antibodies. Dogs can have that immunity without the shot. Dogs can have immunity and not show it on at titers test.> > He was about 10 at the time, and had never had arthritis. We got up> one morning and he couldn't move. Being as how he had never done> this before, or shown signs of arthritis, I didn't know what> was wrong and took him to the vet. We carried him in as he couldn't> walk (hurt too much). When the girl came to take him in back she> bent right down by his face to lift him up. I told her not to do> that as he bites strangers. She laughed and said she would be> fine. So we had to leave him for blood work. In about a half hour> I get a phone call asking if he had his rabies shot. I say no,> why. They said that when the girl went to stick him for blood he> bit her, and without a rabies paper they had to quarantine him for> 10 days. They did it at their expense because I had warned them,> but still--my poor dog was kept there for 10 days and we weren't> even ! allowed to visit him--against the law they said. He had been> in pain and we dropped him off, and as far as he was concerned he> must have thought we abandoned him and were not coming back. Even> though the arthritis pain had gone away by the time we got him back,> he looked as if he had aged years, and acted that way, all> depressed, for months. I was so angry but there was absolutely> nothing I could do. What state are you in? Here in Florida we are allowed to quarantine in our own homes and have the dog with us, just away from the other dogs. I'm so sorry you and the dog had to go through that, especially when it is most likely that there was no law against you seeing him.> > So I'm always nervous about the girl not having her shots, just in> case someone got bit, or some stupid accident that wasn't even her> fault happened, she'd be the one to be blamed. I will allow the> one rabies shot, which is all that is required by law here. Then> have her fixed. I've had that happen. My dog was quarantined at home and made to get the shot. I think a part of the reason they were reasonable with me was that I had adopted the dog from their shelter with them knowing he had bit someone previously. He is now dying of heart failure, which very well may be due to the shots.Cyndi> > My dog is healthy. Zero problems. > > Samala,> Renee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 No Travis, There is no such thing as a safe vaccine. Tetanus is extremely harmful. You can google and see the devastation it has caused people! Vaccines suppress the immune system and are not recommended for sick people! Please do some research. There are no benefits to any vaccine. All diseases were on the decline before any vaccine was introduced. You can email me privately for more on that. Nonie Travis, If I were you I'd refuse the tetanus vaccine. It's made on eggs, so if you're allergic to them it can be dangerous. Also, it contains both mercury and formaldehyde as preservatives. Not something you would want to put into your body. Tetanus is good for at least ten years, and some say once is enough for a lifetime of immunity. Something to think about. Unless you stepped on a rusty nail or got bit by a snake or something, I'd just refuse it. This is all just my opinion of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 2008 Report Share Posted May 27, 2008 Thanks Nonie! That was all I needed to hear. I remember reading somewhere that the one exception to vaccines was getting a tetanus shot, but now when my time is due for a new one in 2 years I will refuse it and in the meantime will read up more on it as well. Thanks again very much and take care! :-)Travis--- On Mon, 5/26/08, Nonie Masterson <nmsammy wrote:Nonie Masterson <nmsammyRe: [!! SPAM] Re: Autoimmune questionoleander soup Date: Monday, May 26, 2008, 4:46 PM No Travis, There is no such thing as a safe vaccine. Tetanus is extremely harmful. You can google and see the devastation it has caused people! Vaccines suppress the immune system and are not recommended for sick people! Please do some research. There are no benefits to any vaccine. All diseases were on the decline before any vaccine was introduced. You can email me privately for more on that. Nonie Travis, If I were you I'd refuse the tetanus vaccine. It's made on eggs, so if you're allergic to them it can be dangerous. Also, it contains both mercury and formaldehyde as preservatives. Not something you would want to put into your body. Tetanus is good for at least ten years, and some say once is enough for a lifetime of immunity. Something to think about. Unless you stepped on a rusty nail or got bit by a snake or something, I'd just refuse it. This is all just my opinion of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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