Guest guest Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Hello all, I did some figuring the other day regarding only the OS and the Super Food Green Supplement that Mary Ann has been taking. To start she had 2 Liters of OS and a large container of the Green Supplement. I calculated the amount of OS that Mary Ann should have consumed if she was taking 2 tbsp. per day since late July. She should have consumed well over 3 liters by now, but she still has about 1/2 liter left. I take 1 tbsp. of Green Supplement myself per day and Mary Ann was supposed to be taking 2 tbsp. per day. I know that we both started with the same amount of green supplement and she should have used double what I have used. I have almost used up what I had for myself and Mary Ann said that she was about out as well. I light of this, I do not think that Mary Ann has been completly honest with me regarding her faithfulness in cancer fighting regimen. I am not sure what I can do about this, but I am going to see her on Saturday and I am going to ask her about it. I have had this happen with other people that I have helped. It's like they feel bad if they tell me the truth, so they just lie about it. In all of my studies of cancer and treating cancer naturally, I can say that one thing I see as a common thread for those who have success is that they are religous about all of the things that they are doing to defeat the cancer. The people that I personally know who have had success with cancer also had this in common. All of the books and websites I have read also voice the same principle. Gerson, Henderson, Krebs, Contreras, Wigmor, Fram, Cancer Tutor, Budwig, etc. all say the same thing. " You have to be faithful to stick to the plan you start. No cheating. " Tony, I got your supplements in the mail yesterday. I'm not sure if it will do any good to give them to her in light of what I have discovered. I'm not sure what to do. What is your opinion? I still want to help her, but she has to be willing to help herself as well. Please let me know what you think. Sincerely, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Perhaps lying to avoid facing the facts and confrontation are a part of the psychological aspect of cancer. The mind and spirit must be healed, too. Please see the works of Dr. Wilhelm Reich, The Cancer Biopathy, and The Function of the Orgasm.May the favor of God be with you in your efforts.Dr. Goebel"jeffery.jack" <jeffery.jack wrote: Hello all, I did some figuring the other day regarding only the OS and the Super Food Green Supplement that Mary Ann has been taking. To start she had 2 Liters of OS and a large container of the Green Supplement. I calculated the amount of OS that Mary Ann should have consumed if she was taking 2 tbsp. per day since late July. She should have consumed well over 3 liters by now, but she still has about 1/2 liter left. I take 1 tbsp. of Green Supplement myself per day and Mary Ann was supposed to be taking 2 tbsp. per day. I know that we both started with the same amount of green supplement and she should have used double what I have used. I have almost used up what I had for myself and Mary Ann said that she was about out as well. I light of this, I do not think that Mary Ann has been completly honest with me regarding her faithfulness in cancer fighting regimen. I am not sure what I can do about this, but I am going to see her on Saturday and I am going to ask her about it. I have had this happen with other people that I have helped. It's like they feel bad if they tell me the truth, so they just lie about it. In all of my studies of cancer and treating cancer naturally, I can say that one thing I see as a common thread for those who have success is that they are religous about all of the things that they are doing to defeat the cancer. The people that I personally know who have had success with cancer also had this in common. All of the books and websites I have read also voice the same principle. Gerson, Henderson, Krebs, Contreras, Wigmor, Fram, Cancer Tutor, Budwig, etc. all say the same thing. "You have to be faithful to stick to the plan you start. No cheating." Tony, I got your supplements in the mail yesterday. I'm not sure if it will do any good to give them to her in light of what I have discovered. I'm not sure what to do. What is your opinion? I still want to help her, but she has to be willing to help herself as well. Please let me know what you think. Sincerely, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 8, 2007 Report Share Posted November 8, 2007 Bless your heart Jeff, I, too, come across self sabotage when helping people with cancer. I can't figure it out. Tony is out of town and without access to a computer. So, I will tell you what I would do, in fact, what I recently did. I don't blame you for being hesitant. I am going through the same thing and it is very frustrating.. I am a very honest and forthright person. This does not help me win popularity contests, but sometimes it is necessary. I would simply confront Mary Ann. Does she realize what she is doing? Why is she not taking the proper dosage? Does she realize that this is self defeating? Final question . . . Does she want to live? Is she willing to make a commitment, not for you, but for herself, to do what it takes so that she can achieve the best quality of life? Did she notice the marked improvement in her health this summer and now the steady decline? Did she become too sure of herself? What? What is the reason? In my instance, I made a batch of oleander soup for a man with one kidney who is on dialysis. Again, he underwent a marked improvement in blood levels an his doctor was amazed. I went to visit him this past Tuesday. As his wife let me in, I noticed that he was lying on the couch and looked like absolute crap. When I asked him how his supply of oleander was coming along, he told me that he had cut back. My opinion is that he stopped. I sensed that he was lying to me. Why? I am even supplying the pomegranate juice so there will be no taste issue. So what is it? He doesn't have out of pocket expenses. His doctor was even open to taking oleander. He was not honest with me, he was quite evasive. Again, I don't know why. I stressed the importance of taking the oleander. I will go back in about a month. If he is still not taking the oleander, I don't believe I will go back. What for? I can't force feed him. And they do have my phone number. It is very discouraging and disappointing. Tell Mary Ann that we are praying for her and you are helping all you can. But she must do her part. Jeff, I hope I have helped in some way. I don't know. Sigh! Hugs, oleander soup , Michael Goebel <goebelchx wrote: > > Perhaps lying to avoid facing the facts and confrontation are a part of the psychological aspect of cancer. The mind and spirit must be healed, too. Please see the works of Dr. Wilhelm Reich, The Cancer Biopathy, and The Function of the Orgasm. > > May the favor of God be with you in your efforts. > > Dr. Goebel > > " jeffery.jack " <jeffery.jack wrote: Hello all, > > I did some figuring the other day regarding only the OS and the > Super Food Green Supplement that Mary Ann has been taking. To start > she had 2 Liters of OS and a large container of the Green > Supplement. I calculated the amount of OS that Mary Ann should have > consumed if she was taking 2 tbsp. per day since late July. She > should have consumed well over 3 liters by now, but she still has > about 1/2 liter left. I take 1 tbsp. of Green Supplement myself per > day and Mary Ann was supposed to be taking 2 tbsp. per day. I know > that we both started with the same amount of green supplement and > she should have used double what I have used. I have almost used up > what I had for myself and Mary Ann said that she was about out as > well. > I light of this, I do not think that Mary Ann has been completly > honest with me regarding her faithfulness in cancer fighting > regimen. I am not sure what I can do about this, but I am going to > see her on Saturday and I am going to ask her about it. I have had > this happen with other people that I have helped. It's like they > feel bad if they tell me the truth, so they just lie about it. In > all of my studies of cancer and treating cancer naturally, I can say > that one thing I see as a common thread for those who have success > is that they are religous about all of the things that they are > doing to defeat the cancer. The people that I personally know who > have had success with cancer also had this in common. All of the > books and websites I have read also voice the same principle. > Gerson, Henderson, Krebs, Contreras, Wigmor, Fram, Cancer Tutor, > Budwig, etc. all say the same thing. " You have to be faithful to > stick to the plan you start. No cheating. " > > Tony, > I got your supplements in the mail yesterday. I'm not sure if it > will do any good to give them to her in light of what I have > discovered. I'm not sure what to do. What is your opinion? I still > want to help her, but she has to be willing to help herself as > well. Please let me know what you think. > > Sincerely, > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 11, 2007 Report Share Posted November 11, 2007 I spoke with Mary Ann today on the phone, and gentelly confronted her with my questions as I mentioned. She said that she had been doing her best to take everything as recommended, and that she had put her 14 year old daughter in charge of making her daily nutrition drinks which included the green drink and the oleander. She did this becasue she was so overwhelmed with all the things that needed to be done along with taking care of her family. She told me that she was doing her best and that she would redouble her efforts to stick with the recommendations. What can I say? I know that she has not been getting the doses that she should, but she is doing her best. All of the chemo side effects have started, and she is not feeling very well, but she says that she feels better than when she did chemo several years ago. She got the dose of chemo a week ago and symptoms started 2 days later. (I think that the OS and other things are helping) I have changed my mind about what I said about the chemo (from August) making the tumors shrink. It was just to delayed a reaction (3 weeks later) for the chemo to have been responsible for doing this. I think is was the OS and anti-cancer protocal. Why it was able to regain a foothold, I don't know. Mary seems very positive and she says that she is going to keep taking everything I have given her and she is going to call me when running low. Tony, I think that the things that you sent will benefit her and that she will take them. I am going to take them over to her asap. She is going to need all of the immune help that she can get. I express my thanks to you Tony for your generosity. I hope that Mary Ann will continue to order things from you as needed. Everybody should by their supplements from Tony. His generosity and devotion to others should indicate where his heart is. The man has to make a living, but it seems to me that his priority is in helping others even at his own expense. Blessings to all, Jeff May <luellamay129 wrote: Bless your heart Jeff, I, too, come across self sabotage when helping people with cancer. I can't figure it out. Tony is out of town and without access to a computer. So, I will tell you what I would do, in fact, what I recently did.I don't blame you for being hesitant. I am going through the same thing and it is very frustrating.. I am a very honest and forthright person. This does not help me win popularity contests, but sometimes it is necessary. I would simply confront Mary Ann. Does she realize what she is doing? Why is she not taking the proper dosage? Does she realize that this is self defeating? Final question . . . Does she want to live? Is she willing to make a commitment, not for you, but for herself, to do what it takes so that she can achieve the best quality of life? Did she notice the marked improvement in her health this summer and now the steady decline? Did she become too sure of herself? What? What is the reason? In my instance, I made a batch of oleander soup for a man with one kidney who is on dialysis. Again, he underwent a marked improvement in blood levels an his doctor was amazed. I went to visit him this past Tuesday. As his wife let me in, I noticed that he was lying on the couch and looked like absolute crap. When I asked him how his supply of oleander was coming along, he told me that he had cut back. My opinion is that he stopped. I sensed that he was lying to me. Why? I am even supplying the pomegranate juice so there will be no taste issue. So what is it? He doesn't have out of pocket expenses. His doctor was even open to taking oleander.He was not honest with me, he was quite evasive. Again, I don't know why. I stressed the importance of taking the oleander. I will go back in about a month. If he is still not taking the oleander, I don't believe I will go back. What for? I can't force feed him. And they do have my phone number.It is very discouraging and disappointing.Tell Mary Ann that we are praying for her and you are helping all you can. But she must do her part.Jeff, I hope I have helped in some way. I don't know. Sigh!Hugs, oleander soup , Michael Goebel <goebelchx wrote:>> Perhaps lying to avoid facing the facts and confrontation are a part of the psychological aspect of cancer. The mind and spirit must be healed, too. Please see the works of Dr. Wilhelm Reich, The Cancer Biopathy, and The Function of the Orgasm.> > May the favor of God be with you in your efforts.> > Dr. Goebel> > "jeffery.jack" <jeffery.jack wrote: Hello all,> > I did some figuring the other day regarding only the OS and the > Super Food Green Supplement that Mary Ann has been taking. To start > she had 2 Liters of OS and a large container of the Green > Supplement. I calculated the amount of OS that Mary Ann should have > consumed if she was taking 2 tbsp. per day since late July. She > should have consumed well over 3 liters by now, but she still has > about 1/2 liter left. I take 1 tbsp. of Green Supplement myself per > day and Mary Ann was supposed to be taking 2 tbsp. per day. I know > that we both started with the same amount of green supplement and > she should have used double what I have used. I have almost used up > what I had for myself and Mary Ann said that she was about out as > well. > I light of this, I do not think that Mary Ann has been completly > honest with me regarding her faithfulness in cancer fighting > regimen. I am not sure what I can do about this, but I am going to > see her on Saturday and I am going to ask her about it. I have had > this happen with other people that I have helped. It's like they > feel bad if they tell me the truth, so they just lie about it. In > all of my studies of cancer and treating cancer naturally, I can say > that one thing I see as a common thread for those who have success > is that they are religous about all of the things that they are > doing to defeat the cancer. The people that I personally know who > have had success with cancer also had this in common. All of the > books and websites I have read also voice the same principle. > Gerson, Henderson, Krebs, Contreras, Wigmor, Fram, Cancer Tutor, > Budwig, etc. all say the same thing. "You have to be faithful to > stick to the plan you start. No cheating."> > Tony,> I got your supplements in the mail yesterday. I'm not sure if it > will do any good to give them to her in light of what I have > discovered. I'm not sure what to do. What is your opinion? I still > want to help her, but she has to be willing to help herself as > well. Please let me know what you think.> > Sincerely,> > Jeff> > > > > > > > > > Do You ? 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Guest guest Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 Same thing happened to my mom. She took OS for a year, and all of her lung and liver cancer were cleared with x-ray. A well intended but ignorant relative convinced her to quit the OS b/c not recommended by her MD. Months later, cancer re-appeared in her clavicle, aggressive, and fast growing. She went with the oncologist and his chemo, and died two months later of kidney failure from the chemo, at 87. No research behind me on this, but I believe Dr. Ozel's patent recommendations to continue with the OS as maintenance forever once the cancer has been beaten back. Ed oleander soup , Jeffery Jack <jeffery.jack wrote: > > I spoke with Mary Ann today on the phone, and gentelly confronted her with my questions as I mentioned. She said that she had been doing her best to take everything as recommended, and that she had put her 14 year old daughter in charge of making her daily nutrition drinks which included the green drink and the oleander. She did this becasue she was so overwhelmed with all the things that needed to be done along with taking care of her family. She told me that she was doing her best and that she would redouble her efforts to stick with the recommendations. What can I say? I know that she has not been getting the doses that she should, but she is doing her best. > All of the chemo side effects have started, and she is not feeling very well, but she says that she feels better than when she did chemo several years ago. She got the dose of chemo a week ago and symptoms started 2 days later. (I think that the OS and other things are helping) > I have changed my mind about what I said about the chemo (from August) making the tumors shrink. It was just to delayed a reaction (3 weeks later) for the chemo to have been responsible for doing this. I think is was the OS and anti-cancer protocal. Why it was able to regain a foothold, I don't know. > Mary seems very positive and she says that she is going to keep taking everything I have given her and she is going to call me when running low. > Tony, I think that the things that you sent will benefit her and that she will take them. I am going to take them over to her asap. She is going to need all of the immune help that she can get. I express my thanks to you Tony for your generosity. I hope that Mary Ann will continue to order things from you as needed. > Everybody should by their supplements from Tony. His generosity and devotion to others should indicate where his heart is. The man has to make a living, but it seems to me that his priority is in helping others even at his own expense. > > Blessings to all, > > Jeff > > May <luellamay129 wrote: > Bless your heart Jeff, I, too, come across self sabotage when helping > people with cancer. I can't figure it out. > > Tony is out of town and without access to a computer. So, I will > tell you what I would do, in fact, what I recently did. > > I don't blame you for being hesitant. I am going through the same > thing and it is very frustrating.. > > I am a very honest and forthright person. This does not help me win > popularity contests, but sometimes it is necessary. I would simply > confront Mary Ann. Does she realize what she is doing? Why is she > not taking the proper dosage? Does she realize that this is self > defeating? Final question . . . Does she want to live? Is she > willing to make a commitment, not for you, but for herself, to do > what it takes so that she can achieve the best quality of life? Did > she notice the marked improvement in her health this summer and now > the steady decline? Did she become too sure of herself? What? What > is the reason? > > In my instance, I made a batch of oleander soup for a man with one > kidney who is on dialysis. Again, he underwent a marked improvement > in blood levels an his doctor was amazed. I went to visit him this > past Tuesday. As his wife let me in, I noticed that he was lying on > the couch and looked like absolute crap. When I asked him how his > supply of oleander was coming along, he told me that he had cut > back. My opinion is that he stopped. I sensed that he was lying to > me. Why? I am even supplying the pomegranate juice so there will be > no taste issue. So what is it? He doesn't have out of pocket > expenses. His doctor was even open to taking oleander. > > He was not honest with me, he was quite evasive. Again, I don't know > why. I stressed the importance of taking the oleander. I will go > back in about a month. If he is still not taking the oleander, I > don't believe I will go back. What for? I can't force feed him. > And they do have my phone number. > > It is very discouraging and disappointing. > > Tell Mary Ann that we are praying for her and you are helping all you > can. But she must do her part. > > Jeff, I hope I have helped in some way. I don't know. Sigh! > > Hugs, > > > oleander soup , Michael Goebel <goebelchx@> > wrote: > > > > Perhaps lying to avoid facing the facts and confrontation are a > part of the psychological aspect of cancer. The mind and spirit > must be healed, too. Please see the works of Dr. Wilhelm Reich, The > Cancer Biopathy, and The Function of the Orgasm. > > > > May the favor of God be with you in your efforts. > > > > Dr. Goebel > > > > " jeffery.jack " <jeffery.jack@> > wrote: Hello all, > > > > I did some figuring the other day regarding only the OS and the > > Super Food Green Supplement that Mary Ann has been taking. To > start > > she had 2 Liters of OS and a large container of the Green > > Supplement. I calculated the amount of OS that Mary Ann should > have > > consumed if she was taking 2 tbsp. per day since late July. She > > should have consumed well over 3 liters by now, but she still has > > about 1/2 liter left. I take 1 tbsp. of Green Supplement myself > per > > day and Mary Ann was supposed to be taking 2 tbsp. per day. I > know > > that we both started with the same amount of green supplement and > > she should have used double what I have used. I have almost used > up > > what I had for myself and Mary Ann said that she was about out as > > well. > > I light of this, I do not think that Mary Ann has been completly > > honest with me regarding her faithfulness in cancer fighting > > regimen. I am not sure what I can do about this, but I am going > to > > see her on Saturday and I am going to ask her about it. I have > had > > this happen with other people that I have helped. It's like they > > feel bad if they tell me the truth, so they just lie about it. In > > all of my studies of cancer and treating cancer naturally, I can > say > > that one thing I see as a common thread for those who have success > > is that they are religous about all of the things that they are > > doing to defeat the cancer. The people that I personally know who > > have had success with cancer also had this in common. All of the > > books and websites I have read also voice the same principle. > > Gerson, Henderson, Krebs, Contreras, Wigmor, Fram, Cancer Tutor, > > Budwig, etc. all say the same thing. " You have to be faithful to > > stick to the plan you start. No cheating. " > > > > Tony, > > I got your supplements in the mail yesterday. I'm not sure if it > > will do any good to give them to her in light of what I have > > discovered. I'm not sure what to do. What is your opinion? I > still > > want to help her, but she has to be willing to help herself as > > well. Please let me know what you think. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 12, 2007 Report Share Posted November 12, 2007 Jeff, thank you for the update. I am glad that she has agreed to take all the supplements. Keep tabs on her though to make sure she keeps taking them. I will keep her in my prayers. Hugs, oleander soup , Jeffery Jack <jeffery.jack wrote: > > I spoke with Mary Ann today on the phone, and gentelly confronted her with my questions as I mentioned. She said that she had been doing her best to take everything as recommended, and that she had put her 14 year old daughter in charge of making her daily nutrition drinks which included the green drink and the oleander. She did this becasue she was so overwhelmed with all the things that needed to be done along with taking care of her family. She told me that she was doing her best and that she would redouble her efforts to stick with the recommendations. What can I say? I know that she has not been getting the doses that she should, but she is doing her best. > All of the chemo side effects have started, and she is not feeling very well, but she says that she feels better than when she did chemo several years ago. She got the dose of chemo a week ago and symptoms started 2 days later. (I think that the OS and other things are helping) > I have changed my mind about what I said about the chemo (from August) making the tumors shrink. It was just to delayed a reaction (3 weeks later) for the chemo to have been responsible for doing this. I think is was the OS and anti-cancer protocal. Why it was able to regain a foothold, I don't know. > Mary seems very positive and she says that she is going to keep taking everything I have given her and she is going to call me when running low. > Tony, I think that the things that you sent will benefit her and that she will take them. I am going to take them over to her asap. She is going to need all of the immune help that she can get. I express my thanks to you Tony for your generosity. I hope that Mary Ann will continue to order things from you as needed. > Everybody should by their supplements from Tony. His generosity and devotion to others should indicate where his heart is. The man has to make a living, but it seems to me that his priority is in helping others even at his own expense. > > Blessings to all, > > Jeff > > May <luellamay129 wrote: > Bless your heart Jeff, I, too, come across self sabotage when helping > people with cancer. I can't figure it out. > > Tony is out of town and without access to a computer. So, I will > tell you what I would do, in fact, what I recently did. > > I don't blame you for being hesitant. I am going through the same > thing and it is very frustrating.. > > I am a very honest and forthright person. This does not help me win > popularity contests, but sometimes it is necessary. I would simply > confront Mary Ann. Does she realize what she is doing? Why is she > not taking the proper dosage? Does she realize that this is self > defeating? Final question . . . Does she want to live? Is she > willing to make a commitment, not for you, but for herself, to do > what it takes so that she can achieve the best quality of life? Did > she notice the marked improvement in her health this summer and now > the steady decline? Did she become too sure of herself? What? What > is the reason? > > In my instance, I made a batch of oleander soup for a man with one > kidney who is on dialysis. Again, he underwent a marked improvement > in blood levels an his doctor was amazed. I went to visit him this > past Tuesday. As his wife let me in, I noticed that he was lying on > the couch and looked like absolute crap. When I asked him how his > supply of oleander was coming along, he told me that he had cut > back. My opinion is that he stopped. I sensed that he was lying to > me. Why? I am even supplying the pomegranate juice so there will be > no taste issue. So what is it? He doesn't have out of pocket > expenses. His doctor was even open to taking oleander. > > He was not honest with me, he was quite evasive. Again, I don't know > why. I stressed the importance of taking the oleander. I will go > back in about a month. If he is still not taking the oleander, I > don't believe I will go back. What for? I can't force feed him. > And they do have my phone number. > > It is very discouraging and disappointing. > > Tell Mary Ann that we are praying for her and you are helping all you > can. But she must do her part. > > Jeff, I hope I have helped in some way. I don't know. Sigh! > > Hugs, > > > oleander soup , Michael Goebel <goebelchx@> > wrote: > > > > Perhaps lying to avoid facing the facts and confrontation are a > part of the psychological aspect of cancer. The mind and spirit > must be healed, too. Please see the works of Dr. Wilhelm Reich, The > Cancer Biopathy, and The Function of the Orgasm. > > > > May the favor of God be with you in your efforts. > > > > Dr. Goebel > > > > " jeffery.jack " <jeffery.jack@> > wrote: Hello all, > > > > I did some figuring the other day regarding only the OS and the > > Super Food Green Supplement that Mary Ann has been taking. To > start > > she had 2 Liters of OS and a large container of the Green > > Supplement. I calculated the amount of OS that Mary Ann should > have > > consumed if she was taking 2 tbsp. per day since late July. She > > should have consumed well over 3 liters by now, but she still has > > about 1/2 liter left. I take 1 tbsp. of Green Supplement myself > per > > day and Mary Ann was supposed to be taking 2 tbsp. per day. I > know > > that we both started with the same amount of green supplement and > > she should have used double what I have used. I have almost used > up > > what I had for myself and Mary Ann said that she was about out as > > well. > > I light of this, I do not think that Mary Ann has been completly > > honest with me regarding her faithfulness in cancer fighting > > regimen. I am not sure what I can do about this, but I am going > to > > see her on Saturday and I am going to ask her about it. I have > had > > this happen with other people that I have helped. It's like they > > feel bad if they tell me the truth, so they just lie about it. In > > all of my studies of cancer and treating cancer naturally, I can > say > > that one thing I see as a common thread for those who have success > > is that they are religous about all of the things that they are > > doing to defeat the cancer. The people that I personally know who > > have had success with cancer also had this in common. All of the > > books and websites I have read also voice the same principle. > > Gerson, Henderson, Krebs, Contreras, Wigmor, Fram, Cancer Tutor, > > Budwig, etc. all say the same thing. " You have to be faithful to > > stick to the plan you start. No cheating. " > > > > Tony, > > I got your supplements in the mail yesterday. I'm not sure if it > > will do any good to give them to her in light of what I have > > discovered. I'm not sure what to do. What is your opinion? I > still > > want to help her, but she has to be willing to help herself as > > well. Please let me know what you think. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Jeff > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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