natural doc opinion on auto-immune?

[Guest guest]

CFS and FMS are very real. Allopaths do not know how to deal with them, and when that happens they deny it exists. One of the worst things that happens to people who are afflicted by these diseases is when they are told (even by family members) that it is "all in their head".

 

Janet

 

-

lavenderjule

herbal remedies

Wednesday, September 04, 2002 8:12 PM

[herbal remedies] natural doc opinion on auto-immune?

What is this community's take on auto-immune diagnoses, as well as fibromyalgia? Is fibromyalgia a commonly accepted syndrome now, or still considered by many to be a catch-all phrase (like chronic fatigue syndrome) used to describe a group of symptoms when they can't identify the real cause? Thank you for your inpu

[Guest guest]

My husband even seems to think it's just depression, but I keep

telling him that depression doesn't cause fever, joint, and muscle

pain. The lack of support sure makes the depression, worse, though.

I've missed a lot of work in the last two months, which is very

unusual for me, and I just don't know what to do anymore. I do have an

appointment with my massage therapist next week, who is definitely my

" healthcare provider " of choice. I usually go to her before I'll

bother to go to a physician.

Julie

 

herbal remedies, " Dragonhealer " <dragonhealing@a...>

wrote:

> CFS and FMS are very real. Allopaths do not know how to deal with

them, and when that happens they deny it exists. One of the worst

things that happens to people who are afflicted by these diseases is

when they are told (even by family members) that it is " all in their

head " .

>

> Janet

> -

> lavenderjule

> herbal remedies

> Wednesday, September 04, 2002 8:12 PM

> [herbal remedies] natural doc opinion on auto-immune?

>

>

> What is this community's take on auto-immune diagnoses, as well as

> fibromyalgia? Is fibromyalgia a commonly accepted syndrome now,

or

> still considered by many to be a catch-all phrase (like chronic

> fatigue syndrome) used to describe a group of symptoms when they

can't

> identify the real cause? Thank you

[Guest guest]

Hi Julie,

 

Fibromyalgia is an acid condition that is caused by a toxic liver. Many things can cause the liver to become toxic. Basically the liver cannot function as it should because it has become overloaded with whatever and has begun to shut down. Our livers are the main processing plant of our bodies for everything we take in in the way of food, drugs, etc. When it gets congested, all he-double hockey sticks break loose. I would strongly suggest you doing a good thorough liver cleanse along with the rest of the total body cleanse. There are many herbs that will assist in cleansing of the liver, Yellow Dock, Dandelion, Barberry, and Milk Thistle just to name a few. You may also wish to, after doing the total body cleanse, change your diet to a more alkaline one and keep it that way. Be careful about the cosmetics, soaps, detergents, shampoos, creme rinses, conditioners, etc. as most of them, unless you use all natural, contain chemicals that will absorb through the skin and make their way to your poor overloaded and congested liver. For your muscle aches you can use a blend of Essential oils mixed into a carrier or massage oil: 8 drops of wintergreen/or birch, 8 drops of marjoram, and 6 drops of spruce (use only certified organic oils though) and mix in 1 oz. of your massage oil and massage your aches and pains. You may also consider taking MSM powder as well. I know there are others on here who will be able to add more to this or have better ideas on how to help you overcome this debilitation.

 

Peace and light,

 

Don

 

-

lavenderjule

herbal remedies

Friday, September 06, 2002 4:15 PM

[herbal remedies] Re: natural doc opinion on auto-immune?

My husband even seems to think it's just depression, but I keep telling him that depression doesn't cause fever, joint, and muscle pain. The lack of support sure makes the depression, worse, though. I've missed a lot of work in the last two months, which is very unusual for me, and I just don't know what to do anymore. I do have an appointment with my massage therapist next week, who is definitely my "healthcare provider" of choice. I usually go to her before I'll bother to go to a physician.Julieherbal remedies, "Dragonhealer" <dragonhealing@a...> wrote:> CFS and FMS are very real. Allopaths do not know how to deal with them, and when that happens they deny it exists. One of the worst things that happens to people who are afflicted by these diseases is when they are told (even by family members) that it is "all in their head".> > Janet> - > lavenderjule > herbal remedies > Wednesday, September 04, 2002 8:12 PM> [herbal remedies] natural doc opinion on auto-immune?> > > What is this community's take on auto-immune diagnoses, as well as > fibromyalgia? Is fibromyalgia a commonly accepted syndrome now, or > still considered by many to be a catch-all phrase (like chronic > fatigue syndrome) used to describe a group of symptoms when they can't > identify the real cause? Thank youFederal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

[Guest guest]

 

Congratulations! I am very happy for you. You are a rare case. Most auto-immune disease patients have congested livers. To be quite honest, and my opinion only but I believe that the majority of people on this planet have liver problems, congestion, toxic and don't even know it and of course most AMA trained MD's don't have a clue about dis-eases anyway. I am not saying that your specific MD is clueless, but if he/she is AMA trained, which of course all mainstream MD's are, then he/she is pretty much clueless unless he/she is open to alternative therapies and is engaging in educating him/herself to what the AMA does not want them to know. If this is the case then most likely your MD will not be practising as a qualified MD for very long. If your MD is not practising AMA sanctioned medicine nor prescribing APhA sanctioned toxins and poisons then your MD will shortly be out of a job. The liver is the only organ in the body that is the front line defense against toxins, poison, environmental pollution, sugars, etc. Everything you eat or drink goes to the liver before it ever reaches the cellular level. So I congratulate you if you have a perfectly functioning liver, but just to be on the safe side, why not do a good liver cleanse anyway, what can it hurt. It will never hurt to cleanse your liver even if it is functioning perfectly or is just fine. Everyone can benefit from system cleansings or total body cleansings.

 

Don

 

-

koolannluke

herbal remedies

Friday, September 06, 2002 8:28 PM

Re: [herbal remedies] Re: natural doc opinion on auto-immune?

Donald Eitner wrote:

 

Hi Julie,

 

Fibromyalgia is an acid condition that is caused by a toxic liver.FMS has nothing to do with the liver, where did you get this stuff. I am an FMS patient and my liver is just fine.Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

[Guest guest]

This is my agreement with Don here. I'd like to go a little further. Too

many of us (including me in the past) think that just because there's no pain

right there, the liver is just fine. In fact, the liver sends signals all

over the body when it is under stress. Some of these signals are hard to

interpret. Thanks to improved communication between Chinese style doctors and

naturopaths, we are now beginning to understand the significance of these

signals.

 

I often list the signals here, and so this is a repeat. They manifest as

minor symptoms that most people don't really pay attention to:

 

dandruff

gritty sensation in right eye

rotator cuff trouble

fatigue at inappropriate times

 

So even if everything seems ok, if you have any of these symptoms, it is

almost certain that there is large stress on the liver. If there is already a

diagnosis of FM, MCS, CFS, or ME, (which are probably all the same condition),

then treating the liver with the most gentle herbs is a good idea. The most

gentle liver herbs appear to be the least bitter. That means burdock and star

anise.

 

As for the AMA, don't get me started on them. The AMA is a monopoly, which

has no place in a free society.

 

On Sat, 7 Sep 2002 06:20:16 -0700 Donald Eitner <eitner.d

wrote:

 

>  

>  

> Congratulations! I am very happy for

> you. You are a rare case. Most auto-immune

> disease patients have congested

> livers. To be quite honest, and my opinion only

> but I believe that the majority

> of people on this planet have liver problems,

> congestion, toxic and don't even

> know it and of course most AMA

> trained MD's don't have a clue about

> dis-eases anyway. I am not saying that your

> specific MD is clueless, but if

> he/she is AMA trained, which of course all

> mainstream MD's are,  then

> he/she is pretty much clueless unless he/she is

> open to alternative therapies

> and is engaging in educating him/herself to

> what the AMA does not want them to

> know. If this is the case then most likely your

> MD will not be practising as a

> qualified MD for very long. If your MD is not

> practising AMA sanctioned medicine

> nor prescribing APhA sanctioned toxins and

> poisons then your MD will shortly be

> out of a job. The liver is the only organ in

> the body that is the front line

> defense against toxins, poison, environmental

> pollution, sugars, etc. Everything

> you eat or drink goes to the liver before it

> ever reaches the cellular level. So

> I congratulate you if you have a perfectly

> functioning liver, but just to be on

> the safe side, why not do a good liver cleanse

> anyway, what can it hurt. It will

> never hurt to cleanse your liver even if it is

> functioning perfectly or is just

> fine. Everyone can benefit from system

> cleansings or total body

> cleansings.

>  

> Don

>

> -

[Guest guest]

I have FMS, and my liver is most definitely involved.

 

Janet

 

-

koolannluke

herbal remedies

Friday, September 06, 2002 8:28 PM

Re: [herbal remedies] Re: natural doc opinion on auto-immune?

Donald Eitner wrote:

 

Hi Julie,

 

Fibromyalgia is an acid condition that is caused by a toxic liver.FMS has nothing to do with the liver, where did you get this stuff. I am an FMS patient and my liver is just fine.

[Guest guest]

The Liver is involved to some degree (large or small), in every illness. There are no exceptions. Don is correct here when it comes to FMS. There is a lot of data here Ann which backs this up, and you're welcome to contact me off list for a free copy of my cassette lecture on Naturopathy where I go into this in great detail.

 

FMS is not difficult to handle, it just takes a bit of time. Like ADD or ADHD, FMS is misnamed. Yes, the symptoms are very REAL!!! But the "Why" and the "Labelling" are very WRONG!!! These labels do not lead to a permanent handling of these symptoms or conditions and are very misleading.

 

ADD and ADHD are fancy names for the symptoms brought about by Malnutrition and I can prove this. FMS is a misnomer for Hyper Toxicity in various organs of the body, which is why there are so many symptoms attached to it and why it is used as a "catch-all". Just because you're experiencing the many symptoms is no reason you have to buy into the Medico crap of an incurable disease with a "Million Dollar" phony name. "FMS" is easy to handle, and takes about 3 months to wrap it up naturally, "IF YOU'RE WILLING TO WORK YOUR BUNS OFF AND CONFRONT THE SITUATION, AND MAKE THE NECESSARY LIFESTYLE CHANGES".

 

Every disease out there was earned by the person who has it. It had to be worked for. The person did everything necessary to bring about the condition. I don't care if it's a toxic relationship, a toxic environment, or a toxic lifestyle, there is a "Cause" for every disease or disability, and that "Cause" can be found and corrected.

 

There are no incurable diseases!!! There are only incurable people.

 

We are where we are today because of decisions we made in the past. Where we will be in the future is completely dependent upon the decisions we make today.

 

Here is one of my favorite quotes from one of my favorite movies (Beyond the Thunderdome)

 

"Wherever you go - there you are". (a lot of truth crammed into those 6 words ;o)

 

Love,

 

Doc

 

Dr. Ian Shillington505-772-5889Dr.IanShillington

 

-

Dragonhealer

herbal remedies

Saturday, September 07, 2002 10:59 AM

Re: [herbal remedies] Re: natural doc opinion on auto-immune?

 

I have FMS, and my liver is most definitely involved.

 

Janet

 

-

koolannluke

herbal remedies

Friday, September 06, 2002 8:28 PM

Re: [herbal remedies] Re: natural doc opinion on auto-immune?

Donald Eitner wrote:

 

Hi Julie,

 

Fibromyalgia is an acid condition that is caused by a toxic liver.FMS has nothing to do with the liver, where did you get this stuff. I am an FMS patient and my liver is just fine.

[Guest guest]

herbal remedies, " lavenderjule " <jms370@a...> wrote:

> My husband even seems to think it's just depression, but I keep

> telling him that depression doesn't cause fever, joint, and muscle

> pain. The lack of support sure makes the depression, worse,

though.

> I've missed a lot of work in the last two months, which is very

> unusual for me, and I just don't know what to do anymore. I do have

an

> appointment with my massage therapist next week, who is definitely

my

> " healthcare provider " of choice. I usually go to her before I'll

> bother to go to a physician.

> Julie

>

 

Julie,

 

The most important things in treating and overcoming an illness is to

properly diagnose it. With the presence of fever, coupled with joint

and muscle pain, you might want to consider ruling out Lymes disease.

The allopathic testing (primarily the Western Blot) is very flawed

and in parts of the country there are strains of the spirochete that

only show posive in about 32% of the test(Pub. by research @ Univ. GA)

and test results on the same blood vary draamatically by the

institution performing the test. The CDC writes that Lymes is the

second most prevalent aquired disease in the US, only surpassed by

HIV. It is estimated (by the CDC) that for all the people who have

been diagnosed that they represent possibly only 3% of the infected

population.

 

If you think it is possible that you could have been infected, (and

you don't have to get a bullseye rash)I recommend seeing a healthcare

professional who is familiar with the disease. Current allopathic

therapy dictates that a diagnoses be based on symptoms not just test

results.If you choose a medical doctor, be carefull there is a

tendancy in that community to not believe what can't be seen, and let

me tell you, Lymes is a " Stealth Bacteria " .

 

My personal suggestion is to find someone who does Electrodermal

Screening (ie: EAV, bio-energetic feedback etc). If you don't know

where to find one check with your local naturopath or inquire in the

chiropractic community.

 

 

Good luck in regaining your health.

Richard

[Guest guest]

Now that i have a little time before dashing off to church, here's a more

detailed response on this.

 

For 9 years, as most of the list members know by now, i had operated an

environmental consulting service. This was based on European research and

practice. I would go into homes and businesses, do tests and observations,

and then write up detailed reports on any environmental problems i found and

their remedies. I also wrote and had published a book on this subject. In

1999, after my largest source of referrals had gone bankrupt, i threw in the

towel on the business, because it was extremely difficult to promote.

 

From that experience, a few things emerged which are relevant to your

question. First, fibromyalgia is real. So is Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, and

so is ME, that European name i can never seem to spell correctly. Back in

1993, i wrote it up as Multiple Chemical Sensitivity. The story of that

writeup is interesting in itself. In many of the cases i handled where

there was such a diagnosis, i was able to find an incident of exposure to a

chemical. Sometimes it would be dramatic, like the forestry worker who was

directly sprayed with EDB (Ethyl Di-Bromide, a now banned insecticide) in

1973 and 15 years later could not even tolerate newsprint in her house.

Other times the exposure would be over a period of time, like the lady who

owned a nail parlor for several years and ended up having horrible pain

every winter. The results are the same, no matter what an individual doctor

chooses to call it.

 

So now, while working as a schoolteacher (a very satisfying career so far) i

still do research on this stuff. I to a professional research

list that comes out of a university, and follow up on some of the reports.

This includes both political and medical news, because at this point this

whole complex of symptoms has become extremely political, especially in

places where socialized medicine is practiced. Some of the research results

end up being summarized in some of the posts to this list, and some are

still used to advise good friends who are suffering.

 

As for treating and curing this group of syndromes, that's a huge field in

itself. So far most research and medical practice has stalled on

identifying it, so treatment options just haven't come out. Here's a very

brief summary of what i think is most workable:

 

Get the home and workplace environments straightened out. This means

removing anything that could be causing or aggravating the problem.

Workable measures will vary among people, but usually this involves getting

rid of any harsh chemicals and molds, and making sure that heating or air

conditioning systems are clean and functioning properly.

 

Treat the liver. That's been covered recently in a couple of other posts,

and i think Don Eitner is definitely on the right track there.

 

Avoid conventional medical treatment, especially psychiatry. Most of the

medications commonly prescribed for these conditions actually make things

worse. If someone is already sensitive to many chemicals, they're not going

to do well with the concentrated chemicals that are the ingredients of most

pharmaceutical products. This is most true with psychiatric drugs, which,

depending on the type, can directly damage the nervous system, the brain,

the digestive system, and the liver.

 

Study diet and nutrition, and always work on improving that for yourself.

 

Be patient. Several research papers have shown that people don't normally

die from this. But it can take a LONG time to get better, sometimes 20

years or more. What i hope to do is help people shorten that time, partly

by being a volunteer teacher on this list.

 

At 03:12 AM 9/5/02 -0000, you wrote:

>What is this community's take on auto-immune diagnoses, as well as

>fibromyalgia? Is fibromyalgia a commonly accepted syndrome now, or

>still considered by many to be a catch-all phrase (like chronic

>fatigue syndrome) used to describe a group of symptoms when they can't

>identify the real cause? Thank you for your inpu

>

>

-- Michael Riversong **

Professional Harpist, Educator, and Writer **

RivEdu ** Phone: (307)635-0900 FAX (413)691-0399

http://home.earthlink.net/~rivedu -- Educational Site