Guest guest Posted August 28, 2002 Report Share Posted August 28, 2002 A few drops of turpentine in a teaspoon of sugar will kill all the adults immediately. A couple of days later, you can repeat the dosage to get the eggs. This is what my Mother had us do when we 'looked wormy'. She was usually right, as bm's showed dead worms. Really gross. Anyway it works. We were southern country folk and everybody got 'wormy' now and then. pj Finance - Get real-time stock quotes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2002 Report Share Posted August 28, 2002 Shirley Reed wrote: > > A few drops of turpentine in a teaspoon of sugar will kill all the > adults immediately. A couple of days later, you can repeat the dosage > to get the eggs. This is what my Mother had us do when we 'looked > wormy'. She was usually right, as bm's showed dead worms. Really > gross. Anyway it works. We were southern country folk and > everybody got 'wormy' now and then. pj You apparently believe that having parasites is always bad, right? Some scientists have evidence that intestinal worms may actually be a good thing. Below is an article about that. Roman Has modern life become so clean it makes you sick? Some scientists say bacteria, worms belong back inside us By Stacey Burling, Knight Ridder, Thursday, February 17, 2000 PHILADELPHIA – Your mother probably won't agree, but some scientists think people in industrialized countries are too clean. That's right. Too clean, too worried about germs. Put away that anti-bacterial soap. Let your kids play barefoot in the dirt. Use antibiotics sparingly. The idea is that humans evolved over millions of years in a dirty environment. Billions of bacteria live in our guts, and they always have. In fact, there are more bacteria in our bodies than cells. Until relatively recently, almost everybody had worms. While improved sanitation and antibiotics are indisputably great public-health triumphs, proponents of the " hygiene hypothesis " believe we may have gone too far. Some of these tiny creatures we're killing may play a vital role in fine-tuning our immune systems. We'd do well to understand what they do before further altering our intestinal flora – our personal ecology. Some researchers hypothesize that reduced exposure to some bugs may have something to do with the rise of reflux disease, allergies and autoimmune diseases such as inflammatory bowel disease, rheumatoid arthritis, and multiple sclerosis. One team is experimenting with giving worm eggs to a small group of Americans with intestinal diseases that are rare in developing nations, where almost everybody has worms. It's too early to tell for sure, but researchers were pleasantly surprised that some of the patients were so happy with the " treatment " that they asked for more. Other scientists are working in the growing fields of " probiotics " – using foods or supplements to deliver " good " bacteria – and " prebiotics " – altering diets to make the gut more hospitable to useful bugs. Many infectious-disease experts are skeptical of these approaches, pointing out that improved sanitation has clear benefits – a longer lifespan, for one – & that there's virtually no proof for the hygiene theories. " This is not a mainstream idea, " said Bennett Lorber, chief of infectious diseases at Temple University Hospital. Even in the cleaner modern world, humans are bathed in microorganisms, he said. " I don't really believe there's much difference in the bugs we have in our intestines now and the bugs we had thousands of years ago. " Others are not so sure. " There's this whole society that we live with all our lives, " said Jeffrey Gordon, a microbiologist at Washington University School of Medicine who studies the complex, finely tuned society of microbes that inhabit human guts. " It's a silent society, but it's critical to our health. " Antibiotic resistance, he said, is not the only danger of indiscriminate use of antibiotics – what he called " microbial genocide. " Humans may also be altering the intricate balance of good and bad bugs in their bodies. " We may be, in ways that we don't understand yet, making us more susceptible to diseases whose microbial basis we do not understand, " Gordon said. It's not just drugs. It's our diet, the way we raise food, the way we live. " It's everything. We've changed everything, " said Jose Saavedra, a pediatric gastroenterologist and nutritionist at Johns Hopkins University, who is studying adding certain good bacteria to infant formula as well as to the diets of older people. " Our water is clean. Our families are smaller. There's less transmission of bugs, " said Martin Blaser, an infectious-disease specialist at Vanderbilt University. " It's my belief that that has consequences. " Blaser is studying " Helicobacter pylori, " a bacteria that clearly has a dark side but may also do us good. " H. pylori " is a significant risk factor for stomach ulcers and cancer. It has been in decline around the world, and so have those diseases. But gastroesophageal reflux disease, which causes stomach juices to back up, often causing heartburn, is new this century and becoming more common. Cancer of the esophagus, the tube between the mouth and stomach, has been rising rapidly. Blaser, who got reflux after eradicating his own " H. pylori, " espouses the controversial theory that the bacteria may protect against reflux and esophageal cancer. Because of the growing evidence that " H. pylori " is not all bad, David Metz, a University of Pennsylvania expert on the bacteria, believes doctors should try to get rid of the bug only in patients with symptoms of " H. pylori " -associated diseases that need therapy. Then there's the worm theory. A University of Iowa research team believes that worms, long considered disgusting intruders, may actually be good for their human hosts. Joel Weinstock's team there has been studying worms and inflammatory bowel disease (IBD), which includes Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis. IBD is almost unheard of in developing nations where people routinely have worms, but has been growing significantly in the United States and other industrialized countries. Previous research has shown that worms modulate the immune system, preventing it from responding so intensely to pathogens. Without worms, Weinstock's team guessed, the immune system might be more likely to overreact, as it does in autoimmune diseases such as IBD. " They've become part of us, " Weinstock said of the worms that have lived in our guts through the millennia. " We're the first population never to experience these worms. Suddenly, our immune system is out of balance. " To test the theory, Weinstock, a gastroenterologist, asked six patients with intractable IBD to quaff a potion of Gatorade and worm eggs, specifically the eggs of " Trichuns suis, " a whipworm normally found in pigs. The study was meant only to show that ingesting worm eggs is safe, but a curious thing happened. Within about two weeks, five of the six patients went into remission – for up to five months. The patients were begging for more worms. They responded to retreatment as well. The study was small, Weinstock said, and patients knew they were getting the experimental treatment, which may have caused a placebo effect, Soon, the team will begin a new study in which patients will not know whether they are receiving worm eggs. Joseph Urban, a U.S, Department of Agriculture microbiologist and worm expert who works with Weinstock's group, said the treatment could have some risk. In some people, he said, the dampening effect of the worms on the immune system could make it easier for bad bacteria to grow. " You have to be very careful with the worms to make sure you don't push the balance too far in the other direction, " he said. Three trains of thought made the worm theory jell for Weinstock. He had spent years studying the effect of worms on the immune system. Then he edited a book on parasites that got him thinking about the scientific tenet that " a successful parasite provides the host with a survival advantage. " And, finally, there was the fascinating history of Crohn's disease, an incurable digestive disorder that causes persistent diarrhea and abdominal pain. " Up until the 1930s, Crohn's disease didn't exist, " Weinstock said. It first appeared in this country among wealthy Jews in New York, he said, and was thought to be a Jewish disease. Then it began to spread. Doctors thought it was a white disease, then a disease of the North. Now, Crohn's crosses all boundaries in the United States. It has become eight to 10 times more common in the past 30 years and is virtually at epidemic levels in Canada, Japan and South Korea. In Israel, Jews get it, but Arabs don't, Weinstock said. In South Africa, whites get it, but blacks don't. " This all points to environment, environment, environment. " Weinstock and his fellow researchers put it all together and wondered if successful efforts to eradicate worms might have led to the rise of this disease. Of course, there may be other factors, such as genetics, at work as well. Other researchers also are studying the effect of bacteria on IBD, " Obviously, life is a lot more complicated than worms, " Weinstock said. Interestingly, intestinal problems are increasing in animals as well, Weinstock said. Pigs, which are now raised in clean pens, are getting sick. So are some species of captive monkeys. Robert Baldassano, director of the Center for Pediatric Inflammatory Bowel Disease at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, said he's seeing an " alarming " increase in IBD. Ten years ago, the disorder began in adolescence or young adulthood. Now, it's common to diagnose it in children under 10 – and the center is following about 100 children under the age of 5. As a member of the board of the Crohn's and Colitis Foundation of America, Baldassano has helped fund Weinstock's work. " I think it's a great idea, " he said. He's not ready to give up other therapies, though. " We're sort of at the third inning of a nine-inning ball game, " he said. But Baldassano, who has Crohn's himself, thinks sufferers will have few qualms about using worms if further studies prove their value. " If worms work, people would go for it, " he said. But " they may not tell everybody they're doing it. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2002 Report Share Posted August 28, 2002 Thanks Roman, a very interesting article. I have heard before about being " too clean " . I myself don't use anti-bacterial cleaners. They're too strong. It makes sense what they are saying. Not sure how far to take this, but to a degree I stopped being so concerned about my child getting or being dirty, or scraping his food off the floor and putting it in his mouth :-) And I have used anti-biotics only in extreme emergencies when nothing else seemed to work, and then always followed it up with a course of pro-biotics. Lisa - " Roman " <r_rom <herbal remedies > Wednesday, August 28, 2002 8:27 AM Re: [herbal remedies] roundworms > Shirley Reed wrote: > > > > A few drops of turpentine in a teaspoon of sugar will kill all the > > adults immediately. A couple of days later, you can repeat the dosage > > to get the eggs. This is what my Mother had us do when we 'looked > > wormy'. She was usually right, as bm's showed dead worms. Really > > gross. Anyway it works. We were southern country folk and > > everybody got 'wormy' now and then. pj > > > You apparently believe that having parasites is always bad, right? Some > scientists have evidence that intestinal worms may actually be a good > thing. Below is an article about that. > > Roman > > > Has modern life become so clean it makes you sick? > Some scientists say bacteria, worms belong back inside us > > By Stacey Burling, Knight Ridder, Thursday, February 17, 2000 > > PHILADELPHIA - Your mother probably won't agree, but some scientists > think people in industrialized countries are too clean. > > That's right. Too clean, too worried about germs. > > Put away that anti-bacterial soap. Let your kids play barefoot in the > dirt. Use antibiotics sparingly. > > The idea is that humans evolved over millions of years in a dirty > environment. Billions of bacteria live in our guts, and they always > have. In fact, there are more bacteria in our bodies than cells. Until > relatively recently, almost everybody had worms. > > While improved sanitation and antibiotics are indisputably great > public-health triumphs, proponents of the " hygiene hypothesis " believe > we may have gone too far. > > Some of these tiny creatures we're killing may play a vital role in > fine-tuning our immune systems. We'd do well to understand what they do > before further altering our intestinal flora - our personal ecology. > > Some researchers hypothesize that reduced exposure to some bugs may have > something to do with the rise of reflux disease, allergies and > autoimmune diseases such as inflammatory bowel disease, rheumatoid > arthritis, and multiple sclerosis. > > One team is experimenting with giving worm eggs to a small group of > Americans with intestinal diseases that are rare in developing nations, > where almost everybody has worms. It's too early to tell for sure, but > researchers were pleasantly surprised that some of the patients were so > happy with the " treatment " that they asked for more. > > Other scientists are working in the growing fields of " probiotics " - > using foods or supplements to deliver " good " bacteria - and " prebiotics " > - altering diets to make the gut more hospitable to useful bugs. > > Many infectious-disease experts are skeptical of these approaches, > pointing out that improved sanitation has clear benefits - a longer > lifespan, for one - & that there's virtually no proof for the hygiene > theories. " This is not a mainstream idea, " said Bennett Lorber, chief of > infectious diseases at Temple University Hospital. > > Even in the cleaner modern world, humans are bathed in microorganisms, > he said. " I don't really believe there's much difference in the bugs we > have in our intestines now and the bugs we had thousands of years ago. " > Others are not so sure. > > " There's this whole society that we live with all our lives, " said > Jeffrey Gordon, a microbiologist at Washington University School of > Medicine who studies the complex, finely tuned society of microbes that > inhabit human guts. " It's a silent society, but it's critical to our > health. " > > Antibiotic resistance, he said, is not the only danger of indiscriminate > use of antibiotics - what he called " microbial genocide. " > > Humans may also be altering the intricate balance of good and bad bugs > in their bodies. > > " We may be, in ways that we don't understand yet, making us more > susceptible to diseases whose microbial basis we do not understand, " > Gordon said. > > It's not just drugs. It's our diet, the way we raise food, the way we > live. " It's everything. We've changed everything, " said Jose Saavedra, a > pediatric gastroenterologist and nutritionist at Johns Hopkins > University, who is studying adding certain good bacteria to infant > formula as well as to the diets of older people. > > " Our water is clean. Our families are smaller. There's less transmission > of bugs, " said Martin Blaser, an infectious-disease specialist at > Vanderbilt University. " It's my belief that that has consequences. " > > Blaser is studying " Helicobacter pylori, " a bacteria that clearly has a > dark side but may also do us good. " H. pylori " is a significant risk > factor for stomach ulcers and cancer. It has been in decline around the > world, and so have those diseases. But gastroesophageal reflux disease, > which causes stomach juices to back up, often causing heartburn, is new > this century and becoming more common. Cancer of the esophagus, the tube > between the mouth and stomach, has been rising rapidly. Blaser, who got > reflux after eradicating his own " H. pylori, " espouses the controversial > theory that the bacteria may protect against reflux and esophageal > cancer. > > Because of the growing evidence that " H. pylori " is not all bad, David > Metz, a University of Pennsylvania expert on the bacteria, believes > doctors should try to get rid of the bug only in patients with symptoms > of " H. pylori " -associated diseases that need therapy. > > Then there's the worm theory. A University of Iowa research team > believes that worms, long considered disgusting intruders, may actually > be good for their human hosts. > > Joel Weinstock's team there has been studying worms and inflammatory > bowel disease (IBD), which includes Crohn's disease and ulcerative > colitis. IBD is almost unheard of in developing nations where people > routinely have worms, but has been growing significantly in the United > States and other industrialized countries. Previous research has shown > that worms modulate the immune system, preventing it from responding so > intensely to pathogens. Without worms, Weinstock's team guessed, the > immune system might be more likely to overreact, as it does in > autoimmune diseases such as IBD. > > " They've become part of us, " Weinstock said of the worms that have lived > in our guts through the millennia. " We're the first population never to > experience these worms. Suddenly, our immune system is out of balance. " > > To test the theory, Weinstock, a gastroenterologist, asked six patients > with intractable IBD to quaff a potion of Gatorade and worm eggs, > specifically the eggs of " Trichuns suis, " a whipworm normally found in > pigs. The study was meant only to show that ingesting worm eggs is safe, > but a curious thing happened. Within about two weeks, five of the six > patients went into remission - for up to five months. The patients were > begging for more worms. They responded to retreatment as well. > > The study was small, Weinstock said, and patients knew they were getting > the experimental treatment, which may have caused a placebo effect, > Soon, the team will begin a new study in which patients will not know > whether they are receiving worm eggs. > > Joseph Urban, a U.S, Department of Agriculture microbiologist and worm > expert who works with Weinstock's group, said the treatment could have > some risk. In some people, he said, the dampening effect of the worms on > the immune system could make it easier for bad bacteria to grow. > > " You have to be very careful with the worms to make sure you don't push > the balance too far in the other direction, " he said. > > Three trains of thought made the worm theory jell for Weinstock. He had > spent years studying the effect of worms on the immune system. Then he > edited a book on parasites that got him thinking about the scientific > tenet that " a successful parasite provides the host with a survival > advantage. " And, finally, there was the fascinating history of Crohn's > disease, an incurable digestive disorder that causes persistent diarrhea > and abdominal pain. > > " Up until the 1930s, Crohn's disease didn't exist, " Weinstock said. It > first appeared in this country among wealthy Jews in New York, he said, > and was thought to be a Jewish disease. Then it began to spread. Doctors > thought it was a white disease, then a disease of the North. > > Now, Crohn's crosses all boundaries in the United States. It has become > eight to 10 times more common in the past 30 years and is virtually at > epidemic levels in Canada, Japan and South Korea. In Israel, Jews get > it, but Arabs don't, Weinstock said. In South Africa, whites get it, but > blacks don't. " This all points to environment, environment, > environment. " > > Weinstock and his fellow researchers put it all together and wondered if > successful efforts to eradicate worms might have led to the rise of this > disease. > > Of course, there may be other factors, such as genetics, at work as > well. > > Other researchers also are studying the effect of bacteria on IBD, > " Obviously, life is a lot more complicated than worms, " Weinstock said. > Interestingly, intestinal problems are increasing in animals as well, > Weinstock said. Pigs, which are now raised in clean pens, are getting > sick. So are some species of captive monkeys. > > Robert Baldassano, director of the Center for Pediatric Inflammatory > Bowel Disease at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, said he's seeing > an " alarming " increase in IBD. Ten years ago, the disorder began in > adolescence or young adulthood. Now, it's common to diagnose it in > children under 10 - and the center is following about 100 children under > the age of 5. > > As a member of the board of the Crohn's and Colitis Foundation of > America, Baldassano has helped fund Weinstock's work. " I think it's a > great idea, " he said. He's not ready to give up other therapies, though. > " We're sort of at the third inning of a nine-inning ball game, " he said. > > But Baldassano, who has Crohn's himself, thinks sufferers will have few > qualms about using worms if further studies prove their value. " If worms > work, people would go for it, " he said. But " they may not tell everybody > they're doing it. " > > > Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: > 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. > 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. > 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and to > prescribe for your own health. > We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as > they behave themselves. > Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person > following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. > It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to > be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. > > Dr. Ian Shillington > Doctor of Naturopathy > Dr.IanShillington > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2002 Report Share Posted August 28, 2002 Janet wrote: > No one can be completely and full-time free of all parasites. But unless they are > symbiotic like some intestinal flora, they can and do contribute to toxins in the > body. > True parasites live off their hosts, they do not by nature allow the host to live > off of > them. It is the constant struggle of keeping the whole body in balance that is the > key to > health. I guess it depends on your definition of " too clean " . Mine is if your health >is poor, cleansing and rebalancing are in order. I don't think there are " true " and untrue parasites. The definition of a parasite is a creature that lives in or on another and from which it obtains nourishment. What you refer to as symbiotic intestinal flora are also parasites because they obtain nourishment from us. I certainly agree about a need for balance. However, what method you use to achieve balance affects how long you keep balance. For example, using antiparasitic herbs, drugs, etc. only without changing what has led to imbalance will not create a long term balance. Use of antibiotics for any and all infections does the same thing -- creates no balance. However, just changing what one eats can be enough to achieve balance. For example, T. L. Cleave, in his book The Saccharine Disease, says that eating refined carbohydrates allows overgrowth of some microbes that are not thought to be particularly beneficial to us, e.g. E. Coli. In his practice, he had his patients only change what they ate to whole, unconcentrated foods, and infections went away, without any use of antibiotics (I don't think they even existed then). You can download a free copy of the book at http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0203cat/0203longevitylibcat.html Roman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 28, 2002 Report Share Posted August 28, 2002 I have also been getting progressively less concerned with dirt and what might be in it. I often remind myself that other animals eat raw foods and off the floor (ground, actually) all the time, and they live well if enough food is available. Animals are also known to eat feces; my pet bird does that all the time, with no visible health problems as a result. I've heard of a therapy for some intestinal problems in humans that involves transplantation of fecal matter from a healthy individual to a sick one. I think it's important to note that regular influx of necessary nutrients is needed to allow the body to replace tissues eaten up by parasites (worms, microbes, etc.). http://www.dirtydozenresearch.com/diet.html makes a point of that. In a book I mentioned in another post, The Saccharine Disease, its author states that eating too much at each meal and eating unnatural foods destroys balance and allows some bugs to take over and cause problems. That's what I think is key in developing disease, not existence of bugs around us. They've always been there, and animals seem to be able to coexist with them, provided they have enough food that is natural for them, and they are not under chronic stress. I believe humans also have evolved to coexist with the bugs. Roman Lisa Belcher wrote: > > Thanks Roman, a very interesting article. I have heard before about being > " too clean " . I myself don't use anti-bacterial cleaners. They're too strong. > It makes sense what they are saying. Not sure how far to take this, but to a > degree I stopped being so concerned about my child getting or being dirty, > or scraping his food off the floor and putting it in his mouth :-) And I > have used anti-biotics only in extreme emergencies when nothing else seemed > to work, and then always followed it up with a course of pro-biotics. > > Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 29, 2002 Report Share Posted August 29, 2002 But my hamburgers & tacos taste so GOOD! Seriously, it is fairly well known that simply eating whole foods creates better health. We can look at any Amish or Seventh Day Adventist community and see that. Another aspect of this parasite thing should be considered. I've noticed many times that certain parasites, particularly fungi, will somehow trigger cravings in people for foods that are good for the parasite, but not for people. Resisting these cravings and eating whole foods will starve out these destructive parasites. Some parasites remind me of oil company executives. They are so dumb, that they will happily kill their host without realizing that they are killing off their own living environment. Those are the ones we have to fight. At 01:59 AM 8/28/02 -0700, you wrote: > >I don't think there are " true " and untrue parasites. The definition of a >parasite is a creature that lives in or on another and from which it >obtains nourishment. What you refer to as symbiotic intestinal flora are >also parasites because they obtain nourishment from us. > >I certainly agree about a need for balance. However, what method you use >to achieve balance affects how long you keep balance. For example, using >antiparasitic herbs, drugs, etc. only without changing what has led to >imbalance will not create a long term balance. Use of antibiotics for >any and all infections does the same thing -- creates no balance. >However, just changing what one eats can be enough to achieve balance. >For example, T. L. Cleave, in his book The Saccharine Disease, says that >eating refined carbohydrates allows overgrowth of some microbes that are >not thought to be particularly beneficial to us, e.g. E. Coli. In his >practice, he had his patients only change what they ate to whole, >unconcentrated foods, and infections went away, without any use of >antibiotics (I don't think they even existed then). You can download a >free copy of the book at >http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0203cat/0203longevitylibcat.html > >Roman > > >Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: >1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. >2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. >3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and to >prescribe for your own health. >We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as >they behave themselves. >Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person >following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. >It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to >be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. > >Dr. Ian Shillington >Doctor of Naturopathy >Dr.IanShillington > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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