Guest guest Posted August 20, 2002 Report Share Posted August 20, 2002 First, please please i beg you to get a criminal investigation of this doctor started. He is prescribing incredibly dangerous drugs, which are closely related in their chemical makeup and effects to illegal substances. A doctor who could do this for a kid is capable of anything, up to and including the most horrible crimes. This doctor should not be in practice, especially considering that he's putting you under such pressure. I get so mad when i hear about cases like this. There is no excuse! Most people are not told this, but Adderall is simply a repackaged form of Dexedrine, which was rejected way back in the 1950s as unacceptable for most people. Generally ADHD is simply being a kid. There is nothing wrong with a kid being a little antsy, particularly if subjected to being in an overcrowded classroom or under a poor teacher who didn't cover basics before going on to difficult material. Many cases of so-called ADHD have been resolved by just a few tutoring sessions! And many cases of depression and mood swing in kids have been resolved by changing the personnel they have to deal with every day, either by transferring, getting someone fired, or homeschooling. I can't seem to say this enough: DEPRESSION AND MOOD SWINGS ARE CAUSED BY HAVING TO COPE WITH PEOPLE WHO HATE YOU. Yes, a few herbs have sometimes been known to help. Most promising is Pycnogenol, which is an extract of a pine tree that grows in southern France. Changing diet has also helped, particularly avoiding excess sugar and artificial flavors. Please keep in touch with us. At 05:18 PM 8/20/02 -0000, you wrote: >I was wondering if anyone out there knows of a herbal substitutes for >some pretty severe meds? I have a 7 yo that suffers from ADHD and >mild depression which the doctor wants to put her on Adderall and I >have a 9 yo with Asperger's(form of Autism) and the same doctor wants >to put her on Respirdal for mood swings. I have fighting against >this for some time since my children have never even had so much as >an aspirin and have always taken herbal substitute. I have checked >into St John's Wort for depression and Valerian for hyperactivity but >cannot find anything that describes a children's amount and I can >find nothing on what to give a child who suffers from mood swings. > >Any help would be appreciated. >Aviv > -- Michael Riversong ** Professional Harpist, Educator, and Writer ** RivEdu ** Phone: (307)635-0900 FAX (413)691-0399 http://home.earthlink.net/~rivedu -- Educational Site Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2002 Report Share Posted August 20, 2002 My optometrist believes that a lot of these "ADHD" kids really have vision difficulties. Please see the links below. A lot of this data makes sense (in conjunction with the data Michael has mentioned below). Hope this helps. http://www.visualprocessing.com/ http://www.add-adhd.org/ Marti Sunland, CA Michael Riversong wrote: First, please please i beg you to get a criminal investigation of this doctor started. He is prescribing incredibly dangerous drugs, which are closely related in their chemical makeup and effects to illegal substances. A doctor who could do this for a kid is capable of anything, up to and including the most horrible crimes. This doctor should not be in practice, especially considering that he's putting you under such pressure. I get so mad when i hear about cases like this. There is no excuse! Most people are not told this, but Adderall is simply a repackaged form of Dexedrine, which was rejected way back in the 1950s as unacceptable for most people. Generally ADHD is simply being a kid. There is nothing wrong with a kid being a little antsy, particularly if subjected to being in an overcrowded classroom or under a poor teacher who didn't cover basics before going on to difficult material. Many cases of so-called ADHD have been resolved by just a few tutoring sessions! And many cases of depression and mood swing in kids have been resolved by changing the personnel they have to deal with every day, either by transferring, getting someone fired, or homeschooling. I can't seem to say this enough: DEPRESSION AND MOOD SWINGS ARE CAUSED BY HAVING TO COPE WITH PEOPLE WHO HATE YOU. Yes, a few herbs have sometimes been known to help. Most promising is Pycnogenol, which is an extract of a pine tree that grows in southern France. Changing diet has also helped, particularly avoiding excess sugar and artificial flavors. Please keep in touch with us. At 05:18 PM 8/20/02 -0000, you wrote: >I was wondering if anyone out there knows of a herbal substitutes for >some pretty severe meds? I have a 7 yo that suffers from ADHD and >mild depression which the doctor wants to put her on Adderall and I >have a 9 yo with Asperger's(form of Autism) and the same doctor wants >to put her on Respirdal for mood swings. I have fighting against >this for some time since my children have never even had so much as >an aspirin and have always taken herbal substitute. I have checked >into St John's Wort for depression and Valerian for hyperactivity but >cannot find anything that describes a children's amount and I can >find nothing on what to give a child who suffers from mood swings. > >Any help would be appreciated. >Aviv > -- Michael Riversong ** Professional Harpist, Educator, and Writer ** RivEdu ** Phone: (307)635-0900 FAX (413)691-0399 http://home.earthlink.net/~rivedu -- Educational Site Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2002 Report Share Posted August 20, 2002 I can't give you any herbal advice, but let me tell you what has worked for me. I have a son that complete strangers have walked up to me and told me to get him on medication for ADHD. I have never seen a Dr for this because I don't want drugs for him. I have found the most helpful things for him have been~ Planning ahead, if I can stay one-step ahead of him them I'm doing great. Getting him into a " play therapy " , she not one of those things banned on the list, but she has helped me understand why he does what he does and given me excellent parenting and coping advice. I picked her through a personal reference and because I knew she is of the same religion/mind and will not even discuss medicine as an option. No more vaccines. Change of diet. Educate yourself- There are a lot of little things that can effect children. Michael recently posted an interesting piece about electromagnetic fields. And call Doc for advice- As a member of the list he'll give you a consultation for free and he has shared many of his recipes with us in the files. Probably most importantly is to take care of you. I know it is easier said than done ;-) Hope this is helpful, Becky > " aviv2762 " <aviv0227 >herbal remedies >herbal remedies >[herbal remedies] Herbal Substitutes >Tue, 20 Aug 2002 17:18:09 -0000 > >I was wondering if anyone out there knows of a herbal substitutes for >some pretty severe meds? I have a 7 yo that suffers from ADHD and >mild depression which the doctor wants to put her on Adderall and I >have a 9 yo with Asperger's(form of Autism) and the same doctor wants >to put her on Respirdal for mood swings. I have fighting against >this for some time since my children have never even had so much as >an aspirin and have always taken herbal substitute. I have checked >into St John's Wort for depression and Valerian for hyperactivity but >cannot find anything that describes a children's amount and I can >find nothing on what to give a child who suffers from mood swings. > >Any help would be appreciated. >Aviv > > _______________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 20, 2002 Report Share Posted August 20, 2002 Aviv, Has anyone suggested your child is checked for allergies/food intolerances? Michael is right in that a change of diet could help. Apparently a large percentage of children diagnosed with this so-called " ADHD " were in fact suffering from allergies/food intolerances, such as sugar, which made them hyperactive. I gave my son once a Soya fruit yoghurt (organic) and after a few weeks I noticed that he got hyper after eating it. So I got the natural Soya yoghurt and it didn't happen. The different ingredient in the fruit yoghurt was some kind of a syrup (forget which now), which wasn't in the natural yoghurt! Simple!! Ask your doctor for such testing, and ensure it is a thorough one. You can also test yourself by cutting out certain food items, re-introducing one at a time and see what happens. Food additives/flavourings especially seem to be a culprit. Lisa - " Michael Riversong " <rivedu <herbal remedies > Tuesday, August 20, 2002 6:49 PM Re: [herbal remedies] Herbal Substitutes > First, please please i beg you to get a criminal investigation of this > doctor started. He is prescribing incredibly dangerous drugs, which are > closely related in their chemical makeup and effects to illegal substances. > A doctor who could do this for a kid is capable of anything, up to and > including the most horrible crimes. This doctor should not be in practice, > especially considering that he's putting you under such pressure. > > I get so mad when i hear about cases like this. There is no excuse! Most > people are not told this, but Adderall is simply a repackaged form of > Dexedrine, which was rejected way back in the 1950s as unacceptable for most > people. > > Generally ADHD is simply being a kid. There is nothing wrong with a kid > being a little antsy, particularly if subjected to being in an overcrowded > classroom or under a poor teacher who didn't cover basics before going on to > difficult material. Many cases of so-called ADHD have been resolved by just > a few tutoring sessions! And many cases of depression and mood swing in > kids have been resolved by changing the personnel they have to deal with > every day, either by transferring, getting someone fired, or homeschooling. > I can't seem to say this enough: DEPRESSION AND MOOD SWINGS ARE CAUSED BY > HAVING TO COPE WITH PEOPLE WHO HATE YOU. > > Yes, a few herbs have sometimes been known to help. Most promising is > Pycnogenol, which is an extract of a pine tree that grows in southern > France. Changing diet has also helped, particularly avoiding excess sugar > and artificial flavors. Please keep in touch with us. > > At 05:18 PM 8/20/02 -0000, you wrote: > >I was wondering if anyone out there knows of a herbal substitutes for > >some pretty severe meds? I have a 7 yo that suffers from ADHD and > >mild depression which the doctor wants to put her on Adderall and I > >have a 9 yo with Asperger's(form of Autism) and the same doctor wants > >to put her on Respirdal for mood swings. I have fighting against > >this for some time since my children have never even had so much as > >an aspirin and have always taken herbal substitute. I have checked > >into St John's Wort for depression and Valerian for hyperactivity but > >cannot find anything that describes a children's amount and I can > >find nothing on what to give a child who suffers from mood swings. > > > >Any help would be appreciated. > >Aviv > > > -- Michael Riversong ** > Professional Harpist, Educator, and Writer ** > RivEdu ** Phone: (307)635-0900 FAX (413)691-0399 > http://home.earthlink.net/~rivedu -- Educational Site > > > > Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: > 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. > 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. > 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and to > prescribe for your own health. > We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as > they behave themselves. > Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person > following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. > It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to > be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. > > Dr. Ian Shillington > Doctor of Naturopathy > Dr.IanShillington > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2002 Report Share Posted August 21, 2002 Sorry, sometimes i just react when i see doctors trying to get people down this medication road. Really i should have asked for more information on your specific case. Please accept my apology here. I've studied Asperger's Syndrome, and probably would have been diagnosed with it as a child. I don't think there can ever be a medical treatment for that particular condition, as it does not seem to have a solidly determinable biological basis. I think what anyone with this particular condition needs more than anything is a mentor. I would have greatly benefited from knowing a good minister in my childhood, but my father was rabidly anti-religious. So that slowed down my social development tremendously, sometimes resulting in outbursts like the one you're referring to. Checked out Respirdal. There wasn't a whole lot of info on it, compared with what i've typically been able to find quickly for other drugs. Just from the tip of the iceberg information i got on this search, it too looks very bad for children. I will never be convinced that Wellbutrin is any good at all. Its side effects, incidentally, are sometimes similar to certain symptoms of diabetes. This would indicate that the drug somehow affects pancreatic functions. If someone wants to defend that particular drug, i would strongly recommend doing that on some other list besides this one -- pretty sure most of the people here don't like that drug very much. It can be very difficult for parents to know for sure what is going on within the average school system. Of course there are notable exceptions, but in my position i get to hear a lot of horror stories, even in a really good school district like the one we have here in Cheyenne. Often the school personnel who hate children are very good at concealing their attitudes from parents. But the kids know, and sometimes a lot of progress is made when a parent can get into a conversation with the child regarding the attitudes of school personnel. Sometimes children are reluctant to express their opinions on this subject due to fear of punishment. I'm not saying this is necesarily happening in your situation -- these are just things that it's worthwhile to watch out for. I had assumed that there was a public school involved, and jumped on that. I must apologize specifically for having done that. Occasionally i have even found cases where a hateful person that a child has to deal with is found in a YMCA or sadly enough in a religious organization. And if a child is naturally sensitive due to autism or some other factor, even small amounts of contact with such a person can lead to incidents of full-blown depression. And sometimes due to past incidents (every parent, including me, makes mistakes) it is difficult or impossible to get into an interview with the child concerning disturbing people. Occasionally there is even hidden abuse from a person outside the family who has gotten a child so intimidated that speaking about these things is impossible. We never know for sure. That's why i really support the idea of cultivating trustworthy mentors for children, and why i try to be one myself at every opportunity (in my case, with the doors always open as a strict policy). On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 05:35:43 -0000 aviv2762 <aviv0227 wrote: > -Thank you for your advice and your opinion but > I do believe that you > are way off base here. My 9 year old has had an > Autistic condition > all of her life. Her mood swings are not caused > by dealing with > people that hate her. I agree that the schools > 'dropped the ball' but > hate? I don't think so. Also, with Asperger's, > she could really care > less if they hated her or not. True to her > disease, she will tell you > if she doesnt particularly care for someone and > will tell anyone off > in a heartbeat. We realize that a good > portionof the mood swings come > from just being 9 and beginning that uphill > climb to the dreaded > teeange years. As for my ADHD dd, it would take > more than just a few > tutoring sessions. Legally, this doctor isn't > doing what any other > doctor is doing I'm afraid. I may not like it > but it's above the > board legal. Respirdal is the most widly used > antipyschotic drug used > in the U.S. and Wellbutrin is now used to get > smokers to stop > smoking. The pharmaceutical companies have > admitted to me in no > uncertain terms that Adderall is Dexadrine and > that in can be habit > forming if taken in large and long dosages. My > dd's have never taken > refined products of any kind including sugar or > processed bread; so > the diet problem does not exist and we have > homeschooled for several > years so they is nobody there to really focus > hatred...unless you > want to include myself. I am researching > Pycnogenol as we speak. > Thank you. Aviv-- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2002 Report Share Posted August 21, 2002 " trying to get people down this medication road " ....... Michael, it's frightening to see how many people have become puppets of the prescription drug companies. It's bad enough that adults take these meds, however the choice is still " theirs " (sad as that is). But when you think of the millions of children being PUT on these drugs, the word pathetic is an understatement. Sorry for sounding like a conspiracy theorist, but I can't help but think there's some hidden agenda to all this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2002 Report Share Posted August 21, 2002 Have you tried a St. Johns Wort tincture? When I was young a doctor told my mom I had ADHD and manic depression and he wanted to put me on med's for it. Instead my mom gave me St. Johns Wort tincture at half the recommended adult dosage. I was to young to remember, but my mom swears that it helped greatly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2002 Report Share Posted August 21, 2002 Actually the agenda is not hidden at all. It can be found in many statements by psychiatrists to the effect that they believe drugs are necessary to a well-ordered society. And of course the other part of this agenda is profits for the drug companies. Here's a breakdown -- your average grocery store makes about 2 - 3% profit on what they sell, and they have to run the whole show on that. Most businesses get between 5 - 7 % profit when they're doing well. A few companies, usually in high-tech or construction, will at times get a spike of profits up to 15%, occasionally higher. Pharmaceutical manufacturers, however, have been known to make around 70% profit on a regular basis. This is according to some financial literature i was reading in the early 1990s, when i undertook a short attempt at starting a career as an investment advisor. These companies can easily afford to send lots of money to politicians all over the world. In the USA during the 2000 election, they gave lots of money to BOTH presidential candidates, and both sides of many congressional races as well. This is all a matter of public record, if anyone cares to look. On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 15:07:11 -0000 gar_fla_62 <tampagar wrote: > " trying to get people down this medication > road " ....... Michael, it's frightening to see > how many people have become puppets of the > prescription drug companies. It's bad enough > that adults take these meds, however the choice > is still " theirs " (sad as that is). But when you > think of the millions of children being PUT on > these drugs, the word pathetic is an > understatement. Sorry for sounding like a > conspiracy theorist, but I can't help but think > there's some hidden agenda to all this. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 21, 2002 Report Share Posted August 21, 2002 St Johns Wort does work in some cases. You never know when it will work, or why. That has been a source of great perplexity to many herbalists, especially young ones. If you kick around the older herb books, you will find that this herb was traditionally used in very complicated formulas, most of them involving brandy. There is a caution as well. People who are fair-skinned with blond or red hair can have trouble going out into the sun when they take it. This is also noted in my older herbals. Right after that is a paragraph about how sheep will die of sunstroke if they eat it. That said, German researchers have not found serious problems with people taking standardized capsules or extracts yet. Lots of Germans use St Johns Wort for depression. It can get pretty depressing in the Ruhr Valley cities or Hamburg, especially in the winter. On Wed, 21 Aug 2002 15:29:42 -0000 adidas2199 <adidas2199 wrote: > Have you tried a St. Johns Wort tincture? When > I was young a doctor > told my mom I had ADHD and manic depression and > he wanted to put me > on med's for it. Instead my mom gave me St. > Johns Wort tincture at > half the recommended adult dosage. I was to > young to remember, but > my mom swears that it helped greatly. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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