New member here with a question--Michael Riversong

Posted August 5, 2002 · August 5, 2002

Hi, Sorry for butting in here, I mostly just lurk. I am alarmed about

the Dong Quai and maybe I have missed something in previous posts. I

thought it had blood thinning properties? I have been taking it for a

couple of weeks for that reason, (and dryness, palpitations, and

anemia.) Isn't it a blood moving herb? I had a pain in my calf about

a week ago but it went away after a few minutes. I tend to have

thickish blood and this herb has really made me feel better. Can you

clear this up for me? Thanks, Kathy

herbal remedies, Michael Riversong <rivedu@e...> wrote:

> Uh, the symptoms you mention here would indicate to me that you

should

> discontinue Dong Quai immediately if you don't have a good Chinese

style

> physician available. That leg cramping rings a big alarm with me.

>

> With any of these herbs mentioned here, dosage is hard to measure.

A good

> Chinese style doctor will mix the herbs into capsules in his/her

own office,

> with careful attention to proportions of herbs relative to each

other. (I

> used to do this frequently for an Acupuncturist.) And the doctor

will watch

> for symptoms such as you're reporting, because reactions to any herb

> indicate a new, deeper level of diagnosis.

>

Posted August 7, 2002 · August 7, 2002

No need to apologize for joining the discussion. We all learn from each

other's questions.

OK, Dong Quai works differently on different people. It's best to try and

understand it within the context of Chinese medicine, which says there are

basically 5 forces that need to be balanced in the body. If one of the forces

is deficient or excessive, there will be symptoms. Deficiency is associated

with cold; excess is associated with hot. A patient is diagnosed according to

these forces. It takes a while to get used to the idea. The five forces are:

earth

fire

wood

metal

water

Often there are references to " wind " , which is not a force in itself but a way

that forces manifest in the body.

Water is associated with the original Ch'i of the Universe, and thus is the

key to the other forces.

In the case of Dong Quai, it's going to act according to what is excessive or

deficient in a patient. It tends to be a warming herb. Complex criteria are

used to determine exactly what is going on. It would appear that the pain you

experienced was more transient. But definitely you should mention it during

your next visit to your doctor.

And, if it works, you're feeling better, that's what we're all looking for.

When it works, DQ tends to act rapidly.

On Mon, 05 Aug 2002 14:26:36 -0000 kathyq47 <kathyq wrote:

> Hi, Sorry for butting in here, I mostly just

> lurk. I am alarmed about

> the Dong Quai and maybe I have missed something

> in previous posts. I

> thought it had blood thinning properties? I

> have been taking it for a

> couple of weeks for that reason, (and dryness,

> palpitations, and

> anemia.) Isn't it a blood moving herb? I had a

> pain in my calf about

> a week ago but it went away after a few

> minutes. I tend to have

> thickish blood and this herb has really made me

> feel better. Can you

> clear this up for me? Thanks, Kathy

>

Posted August 9, 2002 · August 9, 2002

Dear Kathy,

Dong Quai is used by more women in the world than any other herb and I've never heard of anyone being permanently damaged by it. On the other hand, I've heard of many success stories from its use.

The thing to do is to listen to your body. It'll tell you if you're taking toooo much and I absolutely doubt if you'd kill yourself or permanently damage yourself even if you did.

The usual phenomenon that occurs when one overdoses on an herb is that you puke, go into a major detox and a healing crisis, and/or get the runs. That's it. This includes the stronger herbs which should be used in moderation or with some attention to their contraindications. I've never heard of anyone killing themselves or even seriously damaging themselves using herbs. NEVER!!! The one exception is pregnant women who might lose a baby due to certain herb usage and this is usually (not always) deliberate when it does happen.

I'm talking about herbs in general, and it kinda pisses me off when I see herbalists, naturopaths, and holistic practioners getting esoteric and trying to create a scary mystery out of it all by saying, "You have to be careful!" or "You have to know what you're doing!" or "You'd better go see a pro!", etc, etc, ad nauseum. I mean, this attitude make me sick and these dudes should know better.

Sure, you need to educate yourself and keep on doing so. Yes, you should go to a pro in an emergency. But to hell with this "be careful" attitude when it comes to herbs in general usage.

You might get sicker than a dog if you overdose on an herb like Poke Root, or Lobelia, but the chances of you dying are probably around a million to one, and I guarantee you that at the end of three to seven days, you'll probably feel better than you have in ages. Yes, you can go through hell if you go into a "Healing Crisis", but I don't know of anyone who hasn't felt ten times better when they came out the other side of one.

A hundred years ago, Doc Thompson purged and puked hundreds of thousands of patients and never lost one of them to the practice. He deliberately overdosed his patients on Lobelia to get them to puke and the man created miracles by doing so.

Yes, you need to observe for yourself and listen to what your body is telling you. Get all the data you can and then go for the gusto. Even if you make a mistake, the chances of you hurting yourself are next to nil. The chances of you getting better and finding a healing regardless of mistakes is almost 100%. Part of "Naturopathy" is this concept of being "Cause". Those who are timid with natural healing continue to be sick while those who are aggressive with it get well, and do so quickly.

It's about time we start taking full responsibility for ourselves and the health of our families. The day we stop learning is the day we might as well give up, roll over, and die. Our own search for "truth", is probably one of the most important things we can do for ourselves and our loved ones. And yet, one should not revere "truth" to the point of bowing down to it and creating a god out of it. You should still kick the tires, honk the horn, and take "truth" for a ride around the block to make sure it holds up under pressure.

If it really is "true". It will.

Listen to your body. If you're winning using the dong quai, keep using it.

Love,

Doc

Dr. Ian Shillington505-772-5889Dr.IanShillington

-

kathyq47

herbal remedies

Monday, August 05, 2002 8:26 AM

[herbal remedies] Re: New member here with a question--Michael Riversong

Hi, Sorry for butting in here, I mostly just lurk. I am alarmed about the Dong Quai and maybe I have missed something in previous posts. I thought it had blood thinning properties? I have been taking it for a couple of weeks for that reason, (and dryness, palpitations, and anemia.) Isn't it a blood moving herb? I had a pain in my calf about a week ago but it went away after a few minutes. I tend to have thickish blood and this herb has really made me feel better. Can you clear this up for me?

Thanks, Kathy

Posted August 9, 2002 · August 9, 2002

Dear Kathy,

You are most welcome.

If the hormones are still swinging wildly out of control, you should look at what is "Causing" it. The most common cause is ALL COMMERCIAL MEAT PRODUCTS INCUDING DAIRY. These are loaded full of hormones and steroids. No wonder women are having so many problems with PMS, Menopause, and Puberty. No wonder men are having so many prostate problems, and impotence problems. No wonder so many children are going through puberty at 8, 9, & 10 years of age. No wonder so many of our kids are having so many difficulties in growing up with "attention" and "hyper activity". It's all the commercial meat products.

And don't think that the Psychs and Medicos don't know this. They do!!!

Love,

Doc

Dr. Ian Shillington505-772-5889Dr.IanShillington

-

kathyq47

herbal remedies

Friday, August 09, 2002 9:00 AM

[herbal remedies] Re: New member here with a question--Michael Riversong

Doc, Thanks for the encouragement. I am a total believer in "listening to my body". The trouble with women's bodies is their hormones get berserk and ruthlessly keep changing. Just when you think you have a handle on something and feel good, bang. I feel more confident in my quest now and I thank you for that.Kathyherbal remedies, "Dr. Ian Shillington" <Dr.IanShillington@G...> wrote:> Dear Kathy,> > Dong Quai is used by more women in the world than any other herb and I've never heard of anyone being permanently damaged by it. On the other hand, I've heard of many success stories from its use.> > The thing to do is to listen to your body. It'll tell you if you're taking toooo much and I absolutely doubt if you'd kill yourself or permanently damage yourself even if you did.> > The usual phenomenon that occurs when one overdoses on an herb is that you puke, go into a major detox and a healing crisis, and/or get the runs. That's it. This includes the stronger herbs which should be used in moderation or with some attention to their contraindications. I've never heard of anyone killing themselves or even seriously damaging themselves using herbs. NEVER!!! The one exception is pregnant women who might lose a baby due to certain herb usage and this is usually (not always) deliberate when it does happen.> > I'm talking about herbs in general, and it kinda pisses me off when I see herbalists, naturopaths, and holistic practioners getting esoteric and trying to create a scary mystery out of it all by saying, "You have to be careful!" or "You have to know what you're doing!" or "You'd better go see a pro!", etc, etc, ad nauseum. I mean, this attitude make me sick and these dudes should know better. > > Sure, you need to educate yourself and keep on doing so. Yes, you should go to a pro in an emergency. But to hell with this "be careful" attitude when it comes to herbs in general usage.> > You might get sicker than a dog if you overdose on an herb like Poke Root, or Lobelia, but the chances of you dying are probably around a million to one, and I guarantee you that at the end of three to seven days, you'll probably feel better than you have in ages. Yes, you can go through hell if you go into a "Healing Crisis", but I don't know of anyone who hasn't felt ten times better when they came out the other side of one.> > A hundred years ago, Doc Thompson purged and puked hundreds of thousands of patients and never lost one of them to the practice. He deliberately overdosed his patients on Lobelia to get them to puke and the man created miracles by doing so.> > Yes, you need to observe for yourself and listen to what your body is telling you. Get all the data you can and then go for the gusto. Even if you make a mistake, the chances of you hurting yourself are next to nil. The chances of you getting better and finding a healing regardless of mistakes is almost 100%. Part of "Naturopathy" is this concept of being "Cause". Those who are timid with natural healing continue to be sick while those who are aggressive with it get well, and do so quickly.> > It's about time we start taking full responsibility for ourselves and the health of our families. The day we stop learning is the day we might as well give up, roll over, and die. Our own search for "truth", is probably one of the most important things we can do for ourselves and our loved ones. And yet, one should not revere "truth" to the point of bowing down to it and creating a god out of it. You should still kick the tires, honk the horn, and take "truth" for a ride around the block to make sure it holds up under pressure. > > If it really is "true". It will.> > Listen to your body. If you're winning using the dong quai, keep using it.> > Love,> > Doc> > Dr. Ian Shillington> 505-772-5889