Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 I would mainly wonder about the mu dan pi. >>>Todd as long as she continues to monitor bloods on at least a weekly bases until you establish her reaction there is no problem even using other blood moving herbs. I have given Dun Shen et al many times to patients on coumadin. I do request 1-2 per week PT times at first. Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 I agree with Alon. There are no studies indicating that mu dan pi is a problem with coumadin, and as long as the patient is monitored, there shouldn't be a problem. I'd only worry if the herb was taken solo in a large dose (as dan shen is sometimes used). On Nov 30, 2003, at 8:46 AM, Alon Marcus wrote: > I would mainly wonder about the mu dan pi. >>> as long as she continues to monitor bloods on at least a >>>> weekly bases until you establish her reaction there is no problem >>>> even using other blood moving herbs. I have given Dun Shen et al >>>> many times to patients on coumadin. I do request 1-2 per week PT >>>> times at first. > Alon > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 , " Alon Marcus " < alonmarcus@w...> wrote: I have given Dun Shen et al many times to patients on coumadin. I do request 1-2 per week PT times at first. this is not possible. is it still OK to give LWDHW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 I think it is. It sounds like LWDHW is supportive, 'constitutional' treatment, and shouldn't interfere in any way. I often do like treatment in similar situations. I think it is smart to avoid such 'active' prescriptions as tian ma gou teng yin, as you've done, in such cases. On Nov 30, 2003, at 9:33 AM, wrote: > this is not possible. is it still OK to give LWDHW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 this is not possible. is it still OK to give LWDHW? >>>I would not worry unless the dose if very high. But it is foolish to not do PTT both medically and legally alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 I think it is smart to avoid such 'active' prescriptions as tian ma gou teng yin, as you've done, in such cases. >>>>I do not think there is any difference between giving Tian ma or LWDH, to say this is a kind of feel good medicine theory. If there is a problem between some herb and a drug it does not matter if it is " supportive constitutional " in intent or active treatment in intent it will have the same reaction with the drug Alon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 Alon's comments reflect what I saw when observing in cardiology at Scripps. Dr. Guarneri's philosophy is that patients can take or eat just about anything as long as the dosage of coumadin is being adjusted and monitored. The main key is to control the coumadin dosage. The other key is to maintain consistency in their intake of whatever is in question. In other words, no dramatic changes in dosages of herbs or radical changes in diet. Laurie Burton " Alon Marcus " I would mainly wonder about the mu dan pi. >>>Todd as long as she continues to monitor bloods on at least a weekly bases until you establish her reaction there is no problem even using other blood moving herbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2003 Report Share Posted November 30, 2003 Why not consider taking even the less potentially problemsome, yet quite effective approach of ER ZHI WAN? Regards, Yehuda On Sun, 30 Nov 2003 09:38:07 -0800 " " <zrosenbe writes: > I think it is. It sounds like LWDHW is supportive, 'constitutional' > treatment, and shouldn't interfere in any way. I often do like > treatment in similar situations. I think it is smart to avoid such > 'active' prescriptions as tian ma gou teng yin, as you've done, in > such > cases. > > > On Nov 30, 2003, at 9:33 AM, wrote: > > > this is not possible. is it still OK to give LWDHW? > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2003 Report Share Posted December 1, 2003 So, " constitutional " formulas are safer for those on dangerous drugs as there are less interaction issues? What is a constitutional formula and what is an active formula? Those that treat excess versus deficiency? -al. On Nov 30, 2003, at 9:38 AM, wrote: > I think it is. It sounds like LWDHW is supportive, 'constitutional' > treatment, and shouldn't interfere in any way. I often do like > treatment in similar situations. I think it is smart to avoid such > 'active' prescriptions as tian ma gou teng yin, as you've done, in such > cases. > > > On Nov 30, 2003, at 9:33 AM, wrote: > >> this is not possible. is it still OK to give LWDHW? > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 2, 2003 Report Share Posted December 2, 2003 There are a few approaches one can take with drug-herb interactions. 1) If the drugs are very toxic, one can treat a 'drug disease' with complimentary herb prescriptions. An example would be steroid syndrome or cushing's syndrome, where one chooses prescriptions to treat the patterns produced by use of such drugs as prednisone. For example, prednisone in early to middle stages (depending on the patient tolerance and dosage) will usually produce in average patients yin vacuity, complicated by heat toxin, or liver yang ascending, for example. There may be simple kidney yin vacuity, dual kidney-liver yang vacuity, or kidney-heart yin vacuity with heart fire. One then treats the pattern accordingly. Some patients after long-term steroid use, especially after discontinuing treatment, suffer with kidney yang vacuity patterns, and should be treated accordingly. 2) One can use the ben and biao/root and tip (branch) approach. In some cases, the patient takes a medication to treat the symptom of headache, so one looks at treating the underlying pattern rather than the symptoms that are being medicated. This is what I call 'constitutional'. There are many variables, however, with this approach. It will depend on the specific symptoms being treated, the strength and dosage of the medication, duration of treatment, and how many drugs are being used. One may also have to attempt to 'reframe' the effects of the medication in a Chinese medical differentiation, seeing them as part of one's prescription, in a sense. And, of course, in some circumstances, the drug is treating the 'root' of a disease pattern, and if herbs are used, they may be treating more 'branch'. One example of this approach is with patients receiving conventional cancer treatment such as chemotherapy, radiation, surgery, and or 'vaccines'. While primary cancer treatment in Chinese medicine uses large amounts of anti-cancer medicinals (which we largely don't do in the West), many which are toxic, we can eliminate these ingredients and concentrate on the root pattern of the patient, or treating the 'drug disease' pattern, whichever is more appropriate in clinical circumstances. Eliminating the anti-cancer medicinals greatly reduces the chances of enhanced toxicity by combinations of toxic chemotherapy drugs and toxic Chinese ingredients. On Dec 1, 2003, at 10:52 AM, Al Stone wrote: > So, " constitutional " formulas are safer for those on dangerous drugs as > there are less interaction issues? > > What is a constitutional formula and what is an active formula? > > Those that treat excess versus deficiency? > > -al. > > On Nov 30, 2003, at 9:38 AM, wrote: > >> I think it is. It sounds like LWDHW is supportive, 'constitutional' >> treatment, and shouldn't interfere in any way. I often do like >> treatment in similar situations. I think it is smart to avoid such >> 'active' prescriptions as tian ma gou teng yin, as you've done, in >> such >> cases. >> >> >> On Nov 30, 2003, at 9:33 AM, wrote: >> >>> this is not possible. is it still OK to give LWDHW? >> >> >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 22, 2006 Report Share Posted October 22, 2006 Help! I have asked for advice before, and you have been quite helpful. I am a person with AIDS. Last year my Docter put me on a low fat diet, due to chronic pancreatitis. Now my Doctor is putting on coumadin, he did not however discuss the food restrictions with me. How am I going to survive without garlic and spinach and such? Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 WAYNE --- YOU CAN HAVE THE SPINACH AND EAT IT TOO. WHAT YOU WANT TO DO IS NOT ELIMINATE ALL GREENS AND OTHER THINGS YOU'VE BEEN TOLD ARE BAD FOR YOU WHEN YOU ARE ON COUMADIN. YOU WANT TO KEEP A " STEADY DIET " OF " WHATEVER " YOU EAT (ESPECIALLY THE WRONG THINGS!). IF YOU HAVE SPINACH TWICE A WEEK ALWAYS HAVE IT TWICE A WEEK, IF YOU HAVE A DRINK ONCE A WEEK ALWAYS HAVE A DRINK ONCE A WEEK. DON'T HAVE THOSE THINGS YOU KNOW ARE BAD FOR YOU EVEN ONCE A WEEK UNLESS YOU ARE POSITIVE YOU ARE GOING TO CONTINUE THE ONCE A WEEK REGIMEN. OF COURSE YOU WANT TO ALSO STAY WITHIN THE LIMITS OF YOUR LOW FAT DIET FOR YOUR PANCREATITIS. TEHYA Wayne <wayxes99 Sunday, October 22, 2006 7:59:30 AM Coumadin Help! I have asked for advice before, and you have been quite helpful. I am a person with AIDS. Last year my Docter put me on a low fat diet, due to chronic pancreatitis. Now my Doctor is putting on coumadin, he did not however discuss the food restrictions with me. How am I going to survive without garlic and spinach and such? Wayne ********************************************* Peacefulmind.com Sponsors Alternative Answers- HEALING NATURALLY- Learn preventative and curative measure to take for many ailments at: http://www.peacefulmind.com/ailments.htm __________ -To INVITE A FRIEND to our healing community, copy and paste this address in an email to them: http://health./subs_invite _________ To ADD A LINK, RESOURCE, OR WEBSITE to Alternative Answers please Go to: http://health./links ___________ Post message: Subscribe: - Un: - List owner: -owner _______ Shortcut URL to this page: http://health. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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