Guest guest Posted August 1, 2003 Report Share Posted August 1, 2003 Does anyone have experience with a supplement called 5-HTP? As an alternative to SSRIs, my doc recommended it as a method to boost seratonin because my amino acids salivary test showed that I have almost no tryptophan. Thanks for all ideas. Ziporah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2003 Report Share Posted August 2, 2003 I have considered this and given to my daughter for her autism, as she is on Paxil and I want to wean her off. The con, as Dr. Andrew Cutler (I think this is who I read it from), is a chance of too much seratonin in the body tissues without adequate amounts reaching the brain. Also, stomach irritation can occur. The plus side is obvious, feeling better and not having to take an SSRI. There are a variety of foods which contain this naturally. Poultry, grains, and dairy. Most of what I've read have come from people on my autism boards, but here is one link to a description about it. Allie was but on the gluten/casein free diet and began to talk for the first time since she had regressed, along with wonderful other positive behavioral changes. However, about 3 months into the diet her behavior spiraled horribly. She didn't improve until we began Paxil, about 5 months after her second regression. I believe that she probably depleted her seratonin levels because of the restrictive foods. She has MAJOR oral issues. BTW, I am not currently giving the tryptophan to Allie, as we are going through too much with school being out, dietary issues and chelation therapy. I have begun to wean her from the Paxil slightly and will get more aggressive once her routine of school is established. I'll be happy to report the affects, once it's done! http://www.biochemicals.com/ Debi , Zipamour@a... wrote: > Does anyone have experience with a supplement called 5-HTP? As an > alternative to SSRIs, my doc recommended it as a method to boost seratonin > because my amino acids salivary test showed that I have almost no tryptophan. > Thanks for all ideas. Ziporah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2003 Report Share Posted August 2, 2003 Dear Debi, I suggest that you really look into Paxil and the other SSRIs. These drugs are very destructive. They do suppress the symptoms, but they are addictive, have horrible withdrawal symtoms and damage the brain. Paxil is reputed to be the worst one of the bunch. They raise the leevl of seratonin in a very unnatural way that is not benefecial to the body. Since it cannot be taken forever, when someone comes off it ALL of the neorotransmitters go haywire. Then the problem is greatly magnified. Of course the choice is your's, but if you post here the choice to respond. You do not want to give 5-htp because it might cause too much seratonin, which can cause seratonin syndrome, but are giving tryptophan. Are you aware that 5-htp is the intermediate step between tryptophan and seratonin so you are giving her basically the same thing almost. Niacin will also affect the ratio in the body as the tryptophan (or 5-htp)is converted into niacin if the body needs it and if their is any left over it is then converted to seratonin and melatonin. She may have an unusual need for niacin, so think about reading up on niacin. Chelation therapy is going to be very hard when someone is taking paxil and any other drugs. I am not an expert of autism. I have only read about it but, as to the foods, A lot of the groups are using enzymes to digest foods to balance out the problems absorbing nutrients. Did she receive any medicine or chemical exposure at the 3 month mark when she spiraled and became worse. I would suspect that firstly or the builup in the diet of an imbalance due to not having the proper enzymes to take in a balance of nutrients and it eventually is way out of balance and causes more symptoms. You state that you are going to wean her when she goes back to school. When coming off Paxil or any SSRI expect severe changes in the withdrawal. It would seem to me to take her off when she is not in school would be more beneficial to her although maybe not for you, as it could cause difficulties if done during school time. There are many sources on the links page that describe SSRIs, seratonin, etc. and some on autism. I think that you are going to have to use either a natural means to help your daughter or a chemical means as the two are not compatable and do not work together. The chemo is almost assured to do additional damage and then you will have two problems to deal with instead of one. Frank , " Debi " <fightingautism> wrote: > I have considered this and given to my daughter for her autism, as > she is on Paxil and I want to wean her off. The con, as Dr. Andrew > Cutler (I think this is who I read it from), is a chance of too much > seratonin in the body tissues without adequate amounts reaching the > brain. Also, stomach irritation can occur. The plus side is obvious, > feeling better and not having to take an SSRI. > > There are a variety of foods which contain this naturally. Poultry, > grains, and dairy. Most of what I've read have come from people on > my autism boards, but here is one link to a description about it. > Allie was but on the gluten/casein free diet and began to talk for > the first time since she had regressed, along with wonderful other > positive behavioral changes. However, about 3 months into the diet > her behavior spiraled horribly. She didn't improve until we began > Paxil, about 5 months after her second regression. I believe that > she probably depleted her seratonin levels because of the > restrictive foods. She has MAJOR oral issues. > > BTW, I am not currently giving the tryptophan to Allie, as we are > going through too much with school being out, dietary issues and > chelation therapy. I have begun to wean her from the Paxil slightly > and will get more aggressive once her routine of school is > established. I'll be happy to report the affects, once it's done! > > http://www.biochemicals.com/ > > Debi > > , Zipamour@a... > wrote: > > Does anyone have experience with a supplement called 5-HTP? As an > > alternative to SSRIs, my doc recommended it as a method to boost > seratonin > > because my amino acids salivary test showed that I have almost no > tryptophan. > > Thanks for all ideas. Ziporah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 2, 2003 Report Share Posted August 2, 2003 Dear Debbi, I forgot to mention that when someone comes off of Paxil, it may take a very long time before the neurotransmitters rebalance themselves. This is for a person who isn't dealing with autism. There are some people in the SSRI groups where it takes a year or more to get normal and that is with a nutrient rich diet. These SSRIs cause major problems. Frank , " califpacific " <califpacific> wrote: > Dear Debi, > > I suggest that you really look into Paxil and the other SSRIs. These > drugs are very destructive. They do suppress the symptoms, but they > are addictive, have horrible withdrawal symtoms and damage the brain. > Paxil is reputed to be the worst one of the bunch. They raise the > leevl of seratonin in a very unnatural way that is not benefecial to > the body. Since it cannot be taken forever, when someone comes off it > ALL of the neorotransmitters go haywire. Then the problem is greatly > magnified. > > Of course the choice is your's, but if you post here the choice to > respond. > > You do not want to give 5-htp because it might cause too much > seratonin, which can cause seratonin syndrome, but are giving > tryptophan. Are you aware that 5-htp is the intermediate step between > tryptophan and seratonin so you are giving her basically the same > thing almost. Niacin will also affect the ratio in the body as the > tryptophan (or 5-htp)is converted into niacin if the body needs it > and if their is any left over it is then converted to seratonin and > melatonin. She may have an unusual need for niacin, so think about > reading up on niacin. > > Chelation therapy is going to be very hard when someone is taking > paxil and any other drugs. > > I am not an expert of autism. I have only read about it but, > as to the foods, A lot of the groups are using enzymes to digest > foods to balance out the problems absorbing nutrients. Did she > receive any medicine or chemical exposure at the 3 month mark when > she spiraled and became worse. I would suspect that firstly or the > builup in the diet of an imbalance due to not having the proper > enzymes to take in a balance of nutrients and it eventually is way > out of balance and causes more symptoms. > > You state that you are going to wean her when she goes back to > school. When coming off Paxil or any SSRI expect severe changes in > the withdrawal. It would seem to me to take her off when she is not > in school would be more beneficial to her although maybe not for you, > as it could cause difficulties if done during school time. > > There are many sources on the links page that describe SSRIs, > seratonin, etc. and some on autism. > > I think that you are going to have to use either a natural means to > help your daughter or a chemical means as the two are not compatable > and do not work together. The chemo is almost assured to do > additional damage and then you will have two problems to deal with > instead of one. > > Frank > > > > > , " Debi " > <fightingautism> wrote: > > I have considered this and given to my daughter for her autism, as > > she is on Paxil and I want to wean her off. The con, as Dr. Andrew > > Cutler (I think this is who I read it from), is a chance of too > much > > seratonin in the body tissues without adequate amounts reaching the > > brain. Also, stomach irritation can occur. The plus side is > obvious, > > feeling better and not having to take an SSRI. > > > > There are a variety of foods which contain this naturally. Poultry, > > grains, and dairy. Most of what I've read have come from people on > > my autism boards, but here is one link to a description about it. > > Allie was but on the gluten/casein free diet and began to talk for > > the first time since she had regressed, along with wonderful other > > positive behavioral changes. However, about 3 months into the diet > > her behavior spiraled horribly. She didn't improve until we began > > Paxil, about 5 months after her second regression. I believe that > > she probably depleted her seratonin levels because of the > > restrictive foods. She has MAJOR oral issues. > > > > BTW, I am not currently giving the tryptophan to Allie, as we are > > going through too much with school being out, dietary issues and > > chelation therapy. I have begun to wean her from the Paxil slightly > > and will get more aggressive once her routine of school is > > established. I'll be happy to report the affects, once it's done! > > > > http://www.biochemicals.com/ > > > > Debi > > > > , Zipamour@a... > > wrote: > > > Does anyone have experience with a supplement called 5-HTP? As > an > > > alternative to SSRIs, my doc recommended it as a method to boost > > seratonin > > > because my amino acids salivary test showed that I have almost no > > tryptophan. > > > Thanks for all ideas. Ziporah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 > You do not want to give 5-htp because it might cause too much > seratonin, which can cause seratonin syndrome, but are giving > tryptophan. Are you aware that 5-htp is the intermediate step between > tryptophan and seratonin so you are giving her basically the same > thing almost. Niacin will also affect the ratio in the body as the > tryptophan (or 5-htp)is converted into niacin if the body needs it > and if their is any left over it is then converted to seratonin and > melatonin. She may have an unusual need for niacin, so think about > reading up on niacin. I am not giving either 5-htp OR tryptophan, I cannot find plain tryptophan at all, everything I've found that says " tryptophan " on the label says " 5-htp " in the ingredients label. I have been told that niacin is not as safe to take as niacinamide, do you know anything about those differences? BTW, she is getting some niacinamide in a vitamin supplement, but is refusing most of it, I'm trying to sneak it in tiny doses. > Chelation therapy is going to be very hard when someone is taking > paxil and any other drugs. I'm not real sure about this, an expert in the area of chelation told me that I can still chelate while giving paxil. > I am not an expert of autism. I have only read about it but, > as to the foods, A lot of the groups are using enzymes to digest > foods to balance out the problems absorbing nutrients. Did she > receive any medicine or chemical exposure at the 3 month mark when > she spiraled and became worse. I would suspect that firstly or the > builup in the diet of an imbalance due to not having the proper > enzymes to take in a balance of nutrients and it eventually is way > out of balance and causes more symptoms. The current understanding is that the child cannot break down the proteins of gluten and casein completely. The proteins are partially broken down, then because of the gut not functioning properly, the protein peptide chains are released into the blood stream. These peptide chains are known as (spelling?) glutiomorphin and casomophin. Essentially it's as if they get stoned from the offending peptide chains. I am using some enzymes, but it's unclear if it's having a positive affect on her or not. I cannot think of any medicine or chemical exposure at this point. I remember she was making unbelievable progress and her anxiety/obsessive behaviors picked up over time. However, at this point she was only 2.5 yrs old and autism is known to produce new symptoms until around the age of 3. The biggest change is that she continually was refusing foods until she stuck with french fries and potato chips for six months straight, nothing else. > You state that you are going to wean her when she goes back to > school. When coming off Paxil or any SSRI expect severe changes in > the withdrawal. It would seem to me to take her off when she is not > in school would be more beneficial to her although maybe not for you, > as it could cause difficulties if done during school time. > > There are many sources on the links page that describe SSRIs, > seratonin, etc. and some on autism. It might seem to you that not being in school would be better (and I certainly appreciate your suggestions, please don't get me wrong) but with autism routine is a major source of comfort and confusion. Most children with autism regress during breaks from school so taking her off a medication during school recess would not give us an adequate picture of her functioning. My comfort level has very, very little to do with what is best for her. School provides speech therapy, occupational therapy, and a good sensory diet with structure. In addition, many treatments I try with Allie happen with her professionals being in the dark. That way I can get honest input as to the success or failure of the treatment. Honestly, the decision on keeping Allie on the Paxil is a very difficult decision to make. You see, for months she was virtually unable to function. Her developmental growth was halted and she was absolutely miserable. Three days after beginning the Paxil she began doing things that before left her terrified and unable to get past it. For example, she was terrified to swing on our small swing set. I would put her on the seat, hold her and talk to her, hug her, do what ever I could to try and reassure her. She could do nothing but scream then when I let her go she would go and lay in a corner of the yard and stare this very sad stare. 3 days after beginning the Paxil, she looked at the swing set, smiled and went and got on it and waited for me to push her, laughing and enjoying herself. There are countless other examples such as these. Now please don't get me wrong, I am not medicating her because of a swing. After research about OCD and anxiety and trying every other intervention we could find, we felt that for her life, and for her ability to learn, and for her chance at a semi-normal life, we should consider trying to give her an SSRI. Because Paxil was marketed as the one for OCD and anxiety we decided to try that one. Because she has made such remarkable progress (she was at a 16 mo devel. age for 6 months, after starting the Paxil went from 16 mo to 30 mo in 9 mo) I am convinced that she suffers from a seratonin deficit. One adult autistic, Temple Grandin, talks about the wonderfully positive affects of various meds for those with autism and how the one aspect of autism she finds most frustrating is the increasing anxiety that seems to worsten each year of her life, as have other autistics explained. She herself states that without medication she would be unable to function. That said, I do not know the level she has tried natural medicine, but I do know when it comes to autism, she is an expert. I do fear the issue of damage to her nerves from the Paxil, that is why I'm planning on weaning her and trying to replenish it naturally. However, children with autism definitely have malfunctioning nervous systems. It is difficult for me to know at this time which is the worst choice for her, medicating her slightly with an SSRI, or allowing her to go without something that, in her case, she just might need. That said, I'm more than happy to take any suggestions any time! Allie's health and future are the most important thing to me. Debi > I think that you are going to have to use either a natural means to > help your daughter or a chemical means as the two are not compatable > and do not work together. The chemo is almost assured to do > additional damage and then you will have two problems to deal with > instead of one. > > Frank > > > > > , " Debi " > <fightingautism> wrote: > > I have considered this and given to my daughter for her autism, as > > she is on Paxil and I want to wean her off. The con, as Dr. Andrew > > Cutler (I think this is who I read it from), is a chance of too > much > > seratonin in the body tissues without adequate amounts reaching the > > brain. Also, stomach irritation can occur. The plus side is > obvious, > > feeling better and not having to take an SSRI. > > > > There are a variety of foods which contain this naturally. Poultry, > > grains, and dairy. Most of what I've read have come from people on > > my autism boards, but here is one link to a description about it. > > Allie was but on the gluten/casein free diet and began to talk for > > the first time since she had regressed, along with wonderful other > > positive behavioral changes. However, about 3 months into the diet > > her behavior spiraled horribly. She didn't improve until we began > > Paxil, about 5 months after her second regression. I believe that > > she probably depleted her seratonin levels because of the > > restrictive foods. She has MAJOR oral issues. > > > > BTW, I am not currently giving the tryptophan to Allie, as we are > > going through too much with school being out, dietary issues and > > chelation therapy. I have begun to wean her from the Paxil slightly > > and will get more aggressive once her routine of school is > > established. I'll be happy to report the affects, once it's done! > > > > http://www.biochemicals.com/ > > > > Debi > > > > , Zipamour@a... > > wrote: > > > Does anyone have experience with a supplement called 5-HTP? As > an > > > alternative to SSRIs, my doc recommended it as a method to boost > > seratonin > > > because my amino acids salivary test showed that I have almost no > > tryptophan. > > > Thanks for all ideas. Ziporah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 She won't eat meat. She will essentially only eat potato chips, french fries, and fruit juice. Occasionally she'll bite something different, but few and far between. Debi > > I'm not a doctor - just a mother like you but from what I have learned, the best natural source for trytophan and the other nutrients used in production of seratonin is meat - memory right now is telling me they are B-6, B-12 and magnesium (please anyone correct me). I don't think a gluten free diet will cause seratonin deficiencies. Wheat actually is not that nutrient dense if you remove the vitamins that are added to it. Wheat has carbohydrates which are necessary for the uptake of seratonin. As I understand it, too many carbs and not enough proteins is the more usual cause of seratonin deficiencies. SSRIs actually reverse the effect of carbohydrates and such a diet. > > Mary > > - > califpacific > > Saturday, August 02, 2003 2:34 PM > Re: 5-HTP? > > > Dear Debi, > > I suggest that you really look into Paxil and the other SSRIs. These > drugs are very destructive. They do suppress the symptoms, but they > are addictive, have horrible withdrawal symtoms and damage the brain. > Paxil is reputed to be the worst one of the bunch. They raise the > leevl of seratonin in a very unnatural way that is not benefecial to > the body. Since it cannot be taken forever, when someone comes off it > ALL of the neorotransmitters go haywire. Then the problem is greatly > magnified. > > Of course the choice is your's, but if you post here the choice to > respond. > > You do not want to give 5-htp because it might cause too much > seratonin, which can cause seratonin syndrome, but are giving > tryptophan. Are you aware that 5-htp is the intermediate step between > tryptophan and seratonin so you are giving her basically the same > thing almost. Niacin will also affect the ratio in the body as the > tryptophan (or 5-htp)is converted into niacin if the body needs it > and if their is any left over it is then converted to seratonin and > melatonin. She may have an unusual need for niacin, so think about > reading up on niacin. > > Chelation therapy is going to be very hard when someone is taking > paxil and any other drugs. > > I am not an expert of autism. I have only read about it but, > as to the foods, A lot of the groups are using enzymes to digest > foods to balance out the problems absorbing nutrients. Did she > receive any medicine or chemical exposure at the 3 month mark when > she spiraled and became worse. I would suspect that firstly or the > builup in the diet of an imbalance due to not having the proper > enzymes to take in a balance of nutrients and it eventually is way > out of balance and causes more symptoms. > > You state that you are going to wean her when she goes back to > school. When coming off Paxil or any SSRI expect severe changes in > the withdrawal. It would seem to me to take her off when she is not > in school would be more beneficial to her although maybe not for you, > as it could cause difficulties if done during school time. > > There are many sources on the links page that describe SSRIs, > seratonin, etc. and some on autism. > > I think that you are going to have to use either a natural means to > help your daughter or a chemical means as the two are not compatable > and do not work together. The chemo is almost assured to do > additional damage and then you will have two problems to deal with > instead of one. > > Frank > > > > > , " Debi " > <fightingautism> wrote: > > I have considered this and given to my daughter for her autism, as > > she is on Paxil and I want to wean her off. The con, as Dr. Andrew > > Cutler (I think this is who I read it from), is a chance of too > much > > seratonin in the body tissues without adequate amounts reaching the > > brain. Also, stomach irritation can occur. The plus side is > obvious, > > feeling better and not having to take an SSRI. > > > > There are a variety of foods which contain this naturally. Poultry, > > grains, and dairy. Most of what I've read have come from people on > > my autism boards, but here is one link to a description about it. > > Allie was but on the gluten/casein free diet and began to talk for > > the first time since she had regressed, along with wonderful other > > positive behavioral changes. However, about 3 months into the diet > > her behavior spiraled horribly. She didn't improve until we began > > Paxil, about 5 months after her second regression. I believe that > > she probably depleted her seratonin levels because of the > > restrictive foods. She has MAJOR oral issues. > > > > BTW, I am not currently giving the tryptophan to Allie, as we are > > going through too much with school being out, dietary issues and > > chelation therapy. I have begun to wean her from the Paxil slightly > > and will get more aggressive once her routine of school is > > established. I'll be happy to report the affects, once it's done! > > > > http://www.biochemicals.com/ > > > > Debi > > > > , Zipamour@a... > > wrote: > > > Does anyone have experience with a supplement called 5-HTP? As > an > > > alternative to SSRIs, my doc recommended it as a method to boost > > seratonin > > > because my amino acids salivary test showed that I have almost no > > tryptophan. > > > Thanks for all ideas. Ziporah > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 3, 2003 Report Share Posted August 3, 2003 Dear Debi, I realize that it is difficult and very hard to know what is right when we want something to help our children and there is not a solid source of definative information. The burden of protecting our children's health is heavy indeed. To do that, you may need to be the researcher and the doctor, as well as the parent and caretaker. I would like to say what I feel is the most important thing. Not just to you but to everyone in the group. Do not rely on any " expert " . You and your child are the ones who have to bear the burden if the answer is not the right one. This holds true for everyone here. So find out the course by asking questions and research and be sceptical of every source. Usually an allopath sees the world of health only with establishment medicine glasses on, a herbalist will see only herbs as a solution,, a homeopath sees only homeo remedies, an accupuncturist the solutionis in the needles and location, etc. etc. Only you can decide although you may have to learn much to be able to really evaluate what is best. Please do not follow anyones advice here or anywhere. Only take what anyone says as only a possible direction to look in. Please research thoroughly any medication that you use for yourself or your family. Most of us get into trouble when we rely on medical authority figures. That is usually an allopathic doctor, but not always. The only saving grace, is that for the average person using nutrients, in taking an extra vitamin or an herb will not usually damage you or kill you. It is especially important though with drugs. The amount of erroneous information and misinformation is legion in the health care field. Lies, on top of lies, Marketing verbage become more believed that reality and the science involved is so suspicious as to be meaningless. To most of these forces, your daughter or mine is insignifigant. I am sorry that I misread your message. I now see that you said that you were thinking about giving her some tryptophan, not now giving it. I would strongly suggest that you read evreything that you can find on enzymes, and the whole cycle that includes seratonin, tryptophan, 5htp, niacin, melatonin, etc. There are some messages on this in the archives too. There are links in our links page to may sites that have info on these subjects. If you will search the archives for past messages using the above terms you will come up with many many messages that have been posted in the past here. If you decide to discontinue the paxil, I was suggesting an out of school taper because it can be very disabling to the person. Most people are unable to function. This is dependent on how long the time of use, how correct the taper is done for that person, the age of the person, the susceptability to damage and other factors. I am not taking into account autism at all. This is strictly from the aspect of someone withdrawing from paxil. After withdrawing from paxil, the user usually shows more severe symptoms than they presented before they took the drug. So it is usually a long drawn out affair. A slow withdrawal. A treatment of nutrients to try an heal and help rebalance the neurotransmitter. The intestines and other organs are usually affected also which needs time and treatment to repair. This process can take the average person many months, so it could be harder for anyone who has already suffered damage prior to the paxil use. I doubt whether any allopathic doctor will admit any of this or most of them will even know it. Tryptophan is available in the USA as a supplement for animals. For anyone wanting to locate a source, input tryptophan and animal or dogs into the google search engine. This has also been discused here before and is also in the archives. It is pharmacuetical grade and no different from that received by the rest of the world for humans. It is only that by law it can not be sold for human consumption in the USA, so the label says it is for animals. It is also expensive due to not many people selling it, so there is no competition. As an aside to the group: Tryptophan was outlawed days before Prozac hit the marketplace in the USA. Prozac is legal and the drug of choice for the establishment and tryptophan is outlawed, although nontoxic and a necessary nutrient, to " protect " the public. Personally, I could be much healthier without this type of " protection " . None of us should try and tell you what you should do. We should only try and help point out information for you to research that might help. regards, Frank , " Debi " <fightingautism> wrote: > > > > You do not want to give 5-htp because it might cause too much > > seratonin, which can cause seratonin syndrome, but are giving > > tryptophan. Are you aware that 5-htp is the intermediate step > between > > tryptophan and seratonin so you are giving her basically the same > > thing almost. Niacin will also affect the ratio in the body as the > > tryptophan (or 5-htp)is converted into niacin if the body needs it > > and if their is any left over it is then converted to seratonin > and > > melatonin. She may have an unusual need for niacin, so think about > > reading up on niacin. > > I am not giving either 5-htp OR tryptophan, I cannot find plain > tryptophan at all, everything I've found that says " tryptophan " on > the label says " 5-htp " in the ingredients label. I have been told > that niacin is not as safe to take as niacinamide, do you know > anything about those differences? BTW, she is getting some > niacinamide in a vitamin supplement, but is refusing most of it, I'm > trying to sneak it in tiny doses. > > > > > Chelation therapy is going to be very hard when someone is taking > > paxil and any other drugs. > > I'm not real sure about this, an expert in the area of chelation > told me that I can still chelate while giving paxil. > > > I am not an expert of autism. I have only read about it but, > > as to the foods, A lot of the groups are using enzymes to digest > > foods to balance out the problems absorbing nutrients. Did she > > receive any medicine or chemical exposure at the 3 month mark when > > she spiraled and became worse. I would suspect that firstly or the > > builup in the diet of an imbalance due to not having the proper > > enzymes to take in a balance of nutrients and it eventually is way > > out of balance and causes more symptoms. > > The current understanding is that the child cannot break down the > proteins of gluten and casein completely. The proteins are partially > broken down, then because of the gut not functioning properly, the > protein peptide chains are released into the blood stream. These > peptide chains are known as (spelling?) glutiomorphin and > casomophin. Essentially it's as if they get stoned from the > offending peptide chains. I am using some enzymes, but it's unclear > if it's having a positive affect on her or not. > > I cannot think of any medicine or chemical exposure at this point. I > remember she was making unbelievable progress and her > anxiety/obsessive behaviors picked up over time. However, at this > point she was only 2.5 yrs old and autism is known to produce new > symptoms until around the age of 3. The biggest change is that she > continually was refusing foods until she stuck with french fries and > potato chips for six months straight, nothing else. > > > You state that you are going to wean her when she goes back to > > school. When coming off Paxil or any SSRI expect severe changes in > > the withdrawal. It would seem to me to take her off when she is > not > > in school would be more beneficial to her although maybe not for > you, > > as it could cause difficulties if done during school time. > > > > There are many sources on the links page that describe SSRIs, > > seratonin, etc. and some on autism. > > It might seem to you that not being in school would be better (and I > certainly appreciate your suggestions, please don't get me wrong) > but with autism routine is a major source of comfort and confusion. > Most children with autism regress during breaks from school so > taking her off a medication during school recess would not give us > an adequate picture of her functioning. My comfort level has very, > very little to do with what is best for her. School provides speech > therapy, occupational therapy, and a good sensory diet with > structure. In addition, many treatments I try with Allie happen with > her professionals being in the dark. That way I can get honest input > as to the success or failure of the treatment. > > Honestly, the decision on keeping Allie on the Paxil is a very > difficult decision to make. You see, for months she was virtually > unable to function. Her developmental growth was halted and she was > absolutely miserable. Three days after beginning the Paxil she began > doing things that before left her terrified and unable to get past > it. For example, she was terrified to swing on our small swing set. > I would put her on the seat, hold her and talk to her, hug her, do > what ever I could to try and reassure her. She could do nothing but > scream then when I let her go she would go and lay in a corner of > the yard and stare this very sad stare. 3 days after beginning the > Paxil, she looked at the swing set, smiled and went and got on it > and waited for me to push her, laughing and enjoying herself. There > are countless other examples such as these. > > Now please don't get me wrong, I am not medicating her because of a > swing. After research about OCD and anxiety and trying every other > intervention we could find, we felt that for her life, and for her > ability to learn, and for her chance at a semi-normal life, we > should consider trying to give her an SSRI. Because Paxil was > marketed as the one for OCD and anxiety we decided to try that one. > Because she has made such remarkable progress (she was at a 16 mo > devel. age for 6 months, after starting the Paxil went from 16 mo to > 30 mo in 9 mo) I am convinced that she suffers from a seratonin > deficit. > > One adult autistic, Temple Grandin, talks about the wonderfully > positive affects of various meds for those with autism and how the > one aspect of autism she finds most frustrating is the increasing > anxiety that seems to worsten each year of her life, as have other > autistics explained. She herself states that without medication she > would be unable to function. That said, I do not know the level she > has tried natural medicine, but I do know when it comes to autism, > she is an expert. > > I do fear the issue of damage to her nerves from the Paxil, that is > why I'm planning on weaning her and trying to replenish it > naturally. However, children with autism definitely have > malfunctioning nervous systems. It is difficult for me to know at > this time which is the worst choice for her, medicating her slightly > with an SSRI, or allowing her to go without something that, in her > case, she just might need. > > That said, I'm more than happy to take any suggestions any time! > Allie's health and future are the most important thing to me. > > Debi > > > > I think that you are going to have to use either a natural means > to > help your daughter or a chemical means as the two are not > compatable > and do not work together. The chemo is almost assured > to do > additional damage and then you will have two problems to > deal with > instead of one. > > > > Frank > > > > > > > > > > , " Debi " > > <fightingautism> wrote: > > > I have considered this and given to my daughter for her autism, > as > > > she is on Paxil and I want to wean her off. The con, as Dr. > Andrew > > > Cutler (I think this is who I read it from), is a chance of too > > much > > > seratonin in the body tissues without adequate amounts reaching > the > > > brain. Also, stomach irritation can occur. The plus side is > > obvious, > > > feeling better and not having to take an SSRI. > > > > > > There are a variety of foods which contain this naturally. > Poultry, > > > grains, and dairy. Most of what I've read have come from people > on > > > my autism boards, but here is one link to a description about > it. > > > Allie was but on the gluten/casein free diet and began to talk > for > > > the first time since she had regressed, along with wonderful > other > > > positive behavioral changes. However, about 3 months into the > diet > > > her behavior spiraled horribly. She didn't improve until we > began > > > Paxil, about 5 months after her second regression. I believe > that > > > she probably depleted her seratonin levels because of the > > > restrictive foods. She has MAJOR oral issues. > > > > > > BTW, I am not currently giving the tryptophan to Allie, as we > are > > > going through too much with school being out, dietary issues and > > > chelation therapy. I have begun to wean her from the Paxil > slightly > > > and will get more aggressive once her routine of school is > > > established. I'll be happy to report the affects, once it's done! > > > > > > http://www.biochemicals.com/ > > > > > > Debi > > > > > > , Zipamour@a... > > > wrote: > > > > Does anyone have experience with a supplement called 5-HTP? > As > > an > > > > alternative to SSRIs, my doc recommended it as a method to > boost > > > seratonin > > > > because my amino acids salivary test showed that I have almost > no > > > tryptophan. > > > > Thanks for all ideas. Ziporah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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