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" Andrew Saul, PhD "

To:

DOCTOR YOURSELF Newsletter (Vol. 3, No 18) August 5, 2003

Tue, 22 Jul 2003 12:16:47 -0400

 

To for free: dynews- )

 

" Find something that no one else can do, and do it better than anyone else

can. "

 

(The elder Lon Chaney's advice to Boris Karloff.)

 

The DOCTOR YOURSELF NEWSLETTER (Vol. 3, No 18) August 5, 2003

 

" Free of charge, free of advertising, and free of the A.M.A. "

 

Written and copyright 2003 by Andrew Saul, PhD, of

http://www.doctoryourself.com , a free online library of over 350 natural

healing articles with nearly 4,000 scientific references.

 

ANNOUNCING: THE NEW " DOCTOR YOURSELF " BOOK!

 

Click on

 

http://www.letsliveonline.com/BasicHealth/doctorYourself.html

 

and there is my new book, DOCTOR YOURSELF: NATURAL HEALING THAT WORKS. Why,

there's even a picture of the cover.

 

I do not have any copies for sale yet. The book comes off the presses in

September, and will reach your bookstore in October. You can email me to

reserve a copy if you want to, but do NOT send me any money at this time.

You can also " further the cause " (and get shelf copies to thumb through, to

see if you like it) by telling your local health food stores and book stores

to check out the link above. Their advance order may be placed with my

publisher, Basic Health Publications, Inc., 8200 Boulevard East, 25G, North

Bergen, NJ 07047. Phone: (201) 868-8336. (Orders Only: 1-800-575-8890) Fax:

(201) 868-2842.

 

http://www.letsliveonline.com/BasicHealth/order.html

 

Sales of my books are what makes this Newsletter, and my 1.3 million word

website, free for you and everyone else.

 

DOCTOR YOURSELF BOOK PROMOTION TOUR

 

You can be sure I will be on the road with the DOCTOR YOURSELF book in the

Fall. I am planning my itinerary now.

 

1) If you would like me to appear on your local TV station, please send me

the station's complete contact information and be sure to INCLUDE THE TV

STATION'S EMAIL address. I will be fielding a lot of these requests, and you

can easily understand that it simply HAS to be done by email.

 

2) If you think your local radio station call-in show would benefit from a

little self-reliant " doctor yourself " controversy, please send me the radio

station's email address. As I will be doing radio interviews by telephone,

these are easy to arrange.)

 

3) Your local health food store or bookstore's **email** contact addresses

would also be helpful if, for some reason, you want to meet me in person at

an author signing.

 

4) " DOCTOR YOURSELF, THE MOVIE " will be premiered in New York on . . . no,

just kidding about the movie. For now.

 

But all the above info on the book is indeed true.

 

" PAPERBACK CLINIC " IS OUT OF PRINT

 

As you might expect, my last book, PAPERBACK CLINIC: A Simplified Manual of

Natural Therapeutics, is now out of print. (Aw, gee!) And " Paperback Clinic "

is not carried in any store. But I still have about 35 copies available.

Until they are gone, you may obtain one directly from me at 8 Van Buren

Street, Holley, NY 14470, USA for $35.00 postpaid in the USA; US $40.00 to

Canada, and US $55.00 airmail to all other countries. Payment by money order

gets immediate shipping; orders paid by check have to take clear-the-bank

time.

 

Important: I strongly urge you to email me first at

drsaul and reserve your copy of Paperback Clinic before

you send any funds.

 

Also, the PAPERBACK CLINIC copies remaining are in good shape, but the

covers are not perfect; most are slightly blemished or shopworn. (After all,

it was a 1994 printing.) This " as-is " condition is a condition of sale to

you. To help make up for it, I will be happy to autograph your copy if you

so request with your order.

 

CARNIVORE CONTROVERSY:

 

CORNELL'S DR. COLIN CAMPBELL REPLIES

 

" Heart disease is very low in China as was the dairy and meat intakes at the

time of the study. Not only are (some ambiguous) results non-significant but

they are relatively meaningless at such low levels because of the

mathematical instability of low numbers.

 

" I am presently writing a book where I discuss how the China Study data and

other similar studies should be interpreted. My main point is to use

specific correlations between cause-and-effect VERY carefully, especially

with a study such as this. Rather, it is the collective effect of large

groups of food that makes the most important difference, an idea that others

are now beginning to embrace as well.

 

" I don't know who wrote the Weston-Price comment, but clearly they are being

very simplistic and wrong. For a summary of our work, I would suggest the

following:

 

1. Campbell, T. C. and Chen, J. Diet and chronic degenerative diseases: a

summary of results from an ecologic study in rural China. In: N. J. Temple

and D. P. Burkitt (eds.), Western diseases: their dietary prevention and

reversibility, pp. 67-118. Totowa, NJ: Humana Press, 1994.

 

2. Campbell, T. C. and Chen, J. Diet and chronic degenerative

diseases:perspectives from China. Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 59: 1153S-1161S, 1994.

3. Campbell, T. C. and Chen, J. Diet and chronic degenerative

diseases:perspectives from China. Am. J. Clin. Nutr. 59: 1153S-1161S, 1994.

" Hope this helps.

" T.C. Campbell "

TOPICAL ASCORBATE STOPS PROLONGED BLEEDING FROM TOOTH EXTRACTION

 

by Hugh D. Riordan, M.D. and James A. Jackson, MT(ASCP), Ph.D.

 

http://www.brightspot.org Email: staff

 

" A woman of age 82 had a decayed lower incisor tooth removed by her dentist

about 4 p.m., and was sent home with two gauze packs to apply to the socket

if needed to control bleeding. Five hours later she was seen in her home by

Dr. Riordan due to uncontrolled bleeding estimated at the time as 1 to 2

mL/min. Obvious signs of extensive bleeding were apparent in her bathroom

where she had been for the entire period. A loose suture was suspected, but

none was found. The patient then stated that no suture was used. Blood was

oozing not only from the socket, but from a broad area of local gum tissue,

particularly posteriorly. Her blood pressure was satisfactory, 160/86.

 

" Direct pressure applied with several gauzes did not slow the continuous

oozing. The woman was a Christian Scientist opposed to the use of drugs and

medical treatment, but she did allow the application of a gauze dusted with

buffered vitamin C powder. The gauze initially contained roughly 0.1 g of

the vitamin (which contained 19 mg calcium, 11 mg magnesium, and 4 mg

potassium per 100 mg vitamin C in the form of carbonate or bicarbonate

buffers, pH 6.8 in water). The bleeding slowed significantly with this

treatment. Then the entire bleeding surface of her gums was dusted with

about 0.25 g of the powder. After the third application of a similar amount,

the bleeding stopped.

 

" She was next asked to dissolve slowly in her mouth a zinc lozenge; it

contained 12 mg zinc as aspartate, 150 mg vitamin C, 1000 IU vitamin A, 100

mg propolis, and 25 mg slippery elm in a base of goldenseal and fructose. A

beautiful fibrinous clot, 3 or I cm in length, formed along the inner

surface of her gum within three minutes.

 

" At this time it was noticed that she had extensive petechiae

(pinpoint-sized hemorrhages in the skin) over her arms, evidence of vitamin

C deficiency. She agreed to take 1 g of the buffered vitamin C twice daily

in fruit juice and to use two zinc lozenges daily. The woman slept overnight

without bleeding. She felt weak the next day, but felt well one day later,

still with no further bleeding. So far as we are aware, treatment of

prolonged dental bleeding by topical ascorbate has not been reported

previously. It raises the question of whether topical ascorbate and zinc

lozenges may be useful in other, similar cases. It is hoped that interested

dentists will try this treatment and report their findings. "

 

Reprinted with permission from the Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine 1991,

6(3-4).

 

(Editor's note: I do not provide product recommendations, nor do I provide

information on how to locate suppliers of particular health products. A

" Google " internet search with can efficiently do that for you.)

 

 

READERS ASK:

 

" Concerning your webpage

 

http://www.doctoryourself.com/klenner_table.html , I have to ask: Over

35,000 mg? Really? Per day?

 

" Back when I began taking additional amounts of vitamin C a gram would give

me the 'too many prunes' syndrome. I can now take as much as 8 grams with no

observed problems. But 35-40 grams? How does the stomach and intestines

handle all that acid? I was under the impression that levels over a certain

amount had to be injected. "

 

Sick bodies need, and hold, much more C. Ascorbic acid vitamin C is about as

acidic as Coca-cola. A calcium buffer makes it even easier. Divided, very

frequent oral doses can approach the effectiveness level of injected " C. " I

have collected and written a considerable amount of material on these and

the other points you asked about. At my website, the best way to get

information there is to do a search for " vitamin C " (and then stand back!)

from the top of the

http://www.doctoryourself.com main page, or a more detailed search from

http://www.doctoryourself.com/supersearch.html Below are some other websites

that are very valuable:

 

http://www.internetwks.com/pauling/ Linus Pauling and colleagues show that

vitamin C and the amino acid lysine may prevent and cure atherosclerosis.

 

http://www.orthomed.org/pauling2.htm Dr. Pauling's complete 1968 paper on

megavitamin therapy.

 

http://www.orthomed.org/pauling.htm A 1974 Pauling paper on the same

subject.

 

A large number of full-text papers on curing illness with vitamin C are

posted at

 

http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate . You will find classic papers by

Drs. William J. McCormick, Frederick R. Klenner, Irwin Stone, Hugh D.

Riordan, and other very important researchers.

 

http://www.orthomed.com This site has Robert F. Cathcart, III, MD's papers

on vitamin C as an antibiotic, antiviral, and more. When I taught college, I

took so much anti-C heat from other faculty that I chose to tell my students

to absolutely NEVER, EVER visit Dr. Cathcart's site, under ANY

circumstances. (Wink, wink!)

 

 

http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/ The Vitamin C Foundation and

http://www.cforyourself.com C For Yourself are great sources of

megavitamin-C information.

 

 

BOOK REVIEW: EZEKIELS' MEDICINE, by Steven Coffman (vitac)

 

Text on CD-ROM, 157 pages plus endnotes and bibliography.

 

My readers know I just plain won't take a commercial stance on anything. Not

surprisingly, I also decline to offer a theological perspective on health.

But there are those who have ably done so, and done a very scholarly job of

it to boot. One such presentation focusing on megadose vitamin C therapy is

Ezekiel's Medicine. To clear up any commercial suspicions you may have, the

author makes it clear right at the beginning of his book that he does not

sell any nutritional supplements. This got my favorable attention

immediately. He also provides 187 supporting quotes and a good bibliography.

To clear up any other doubts, let there be no mistake about it: Steve's book

is evangelical. What I found so intriguing is his ability to cite Biblical

references supporting vitamin C use as well as medical references supporting

vitamin C use. For a sample of Mr. Coffman's viewpoint, you might look at

 

http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/coffman.htm

 

Ezekiel's Medicine contains many terrific quotes. Here are a few:

 

" Don't panic when you read articles about the dangers of vitamin C, " says

Dr. Sandra Goodman. " ...thus far...they have not been proven true. " " One of

the best attributes about vitamin C is that no matter how much you take,

even 200 grams per day cannot hurt you. The clinical evidence of tens of

thousands of patients attests to the non-toxicity of vitamin C, " Goodman

writes. (O'Brien JE. Vitamin C really does slow aging and prevent disease.

Boca Raton, FL: Globe Communications Corp., 1993, p 13.)

 

" Considering the immense quantities of C sold in the United States alone,

it's probably safe to assume that any serious hazards would have been found

by now...the risk factor appears extremely small and the potential

enormous. " (Wright JV. Dr. Wright's guide to healing with nutrition.

Emmanus, Pennsylvania: Rodale Press, Inc., 1984, p 76.)

 

Some people have asked Dr. Pauling if C, by acting as an acid, might not

cause stomach ulcers. " The gastric juice in the stomach contains a strong

acid, and C, which is a weak acid, does not increase its acidity. Aspirin

tablets and potassium chloride tablets can corrode the wall of the stomach

and cause ulcers. C stops them from forming and helps to heal them. "

(Pauling L. Vitamin C, the common cold, and the flu. San Francisco: W.F.

Freeman and Company, 1976, p. 109. I have reviewed this book at

http://www.doctoryourself.com/morebooks.html , about half-way down the

webpage.)

 

" Dr. Pauling once went to a dinner given by the dean of a university. " This

professor of medicine took him aside and quietly whispered in his ear,

" Linus, you'd be astonished how many of the doctors in this very room take

large doses of C based on your book's recommendations, even though they

won't admit it in public. " (Heinerman J. Dr. Heinerman's encyclopedia of

nature's vitamins and minerals. Paramus, N.J.: 1998, p 135).

 

" On my last visit to Sweden, I was told that the final evidence has been

found that ascorbic acid is quite harmless. An insane person had the fixed

idea that he needed ascorbic acid so he swallowed incredible amounts of it

for a considerable period without ill effects. So, ascorbic acid cannot hurt

you. It does not hurt your pocketbook either, since it is very cheap.

 

" I remember my correspondence with a teacher in my earlier days who told me

that he had an antisocial boy whom he was unable to deal with. He gave him

ascorbic acid and the boy became one of his most easygoing, obedient pupils.

Nor does wealth and rich food necessarily protect against lack of vitamins.

I remember my contact with one of the wealthiest royal families of Europe

where the young prince had constant temperature and had poor health. On

administering vitamin C, the condition readily cleared up. " (Albert

Szent-Gyorgyi, M.D., Ph.D., Nobel Laureate;

http://www.vitamincfoundation.org)

 

There are plenty more in this well done, uplifting presentation about

megavitamin C. Ezekiel's Medicine sells for $10.60, which includes postage

(Maine residents must add 5% sales tax) and is shipped in MS-Word format on

CD-ROM. Coffman Enterprises, P.O. Box 82, Gray, ME 04039.

 

PRACTICAL PAULING PROSE:

 

" When an old and distinguished person speaks to you, listen to him carefully

and with respect, but do not believe him. Never put your trust in anything

but your own intellect. Your elder, no matter whether he has gray hair or

has lost his hair, no matter whether he is a Nobel Laureate, may be wrong.

The world progresses, year by year, century by century, as the members of

younger generations find out what was wrong among the things that their

elders said. So you must always be skeptical: always think for yourself. "

 

(Linus Pauling, speaking to university students on the eve of receiving his

first Nobel Prize, December 10, 1954,)

 

 

 

CAFFEINE AND OBSESSIVE-COMPULSIVE DISORDER

by Ruth Whalen, MLT

Tenpaisleypark

 

Reprinted with the permission of the author.

 

(Editor's note: This article is effectively a continuation of Ms. Whalen's

other caffeine articles, which are posted at

 

http://www.doctoryourself.com/caffeine_allergy.html and

 

http://www.doctoryourself.com/caffeine2.html)

 

With toxicity progressing, simultaneously or after manifesting as attention

deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD), ongoing caffeine anaphylaxis

continues poisoning the brain and generates the repetitive, obsessive

behavior noted in obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD). Obsessive-compulsive

disorder commonly affects persons diagnosed with ADHD.

 

Several factors are involved with OCD. First, caffeine anaphylaxis poisons

the prefrontal cortex. Obsessive-compulsive disorder is due to dysfunction

of the prefrontal area.1-3 Caffeine, a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI),

generates an increase of catecholamine (noradrenaline, adrenaline, and

dopamine) production and delays catecholamine reuptake. Dopamine activity,4,

5 including an increase in dopamine activity,4 is believed involved with

OCD. Due to caffeine's MAOI properties, caffeine delays serotonin breakdown.

A deficiency in serotonin metabolism is involved with OCD.6, 7

 

Caffeine anaphylaxis reduces cerebral oxygen. Anaphylactic shock causes

circulatory failure, resulting in decreased blood flow and oxygen. Caffeine

reduces cerebral oxygen, 8, 9 and hyperventilation, a symptom of

anaphylaxis,10-12 contributes to oxygen deprivation. Commonly patients

diagnosed with OCD suffer a decrease in cerebral blood flow.13-15

 

Ongoing caffeine anaphylaxis encourages a person to repeat thoughts. An

overly stimulated poisoned brain generates thoughts of small dilemmas,

generally not catastrophic, revolving repetitively in the mind. The caffeine

allergic individual almost never suspects a toxic brain. The chemical

reactions of caffeine anaphylaxis masking allergic symptoms, and brain

poisoning prevent a caffeine allergic person from recognizing symptoms of

caffeine anaphylaxis, and memory impairment prevents the ability to

recognize repetition.

 

Repetitively tying a sneaker until the loop seems perfect, a caffeine

allergic person may think, " Not good enough, have to fix this loop-make it

equal the other one. Not good enough.... " A person may obsess about a

relationship, or even an action that goes against the individual's

principles. Like amphetamine and cocaine users, an allergically toxic person

repeats actions. Similarly, persons diagnosed with OCD dwell on issues which

mentally healthy individuals may consider insignificant. They also repeat

actions.

 

Obsessive-compulsive disorder usually begins in early adulthood and affects

approximately 5 million Americans.16 Comorbidity between OCD and the other

mental disorders exists. Obsessive-compulsive disorder affects patients with

anxiety, panic, bipolar disorder, depression, and schizophrenia. Researchers

believe that adolescents and young adults diagnosed with OCD who have

previously used stimulants are more likely to develop bipolar disorder.17

Perhaps persons should consider caffeine anaphylaxis as a cause.

 

Symptoms of OCD accompany several physical disorders. Obsessive compulsion

can accompany brain injury,18-20 and drug toxicity.21 Obsessive compulsive

behavior affects stimulant users.22, 23 A high percentage of the world's

population ingests caffeine in quantities that can produce substantial

effects on the organs, including the brain. A toxin, caffeine presents a

risk for generating psychological disorders. And chronic exposure to a drug

presents the risk of developing an allergy.

 

 

Caffeine anaphylaxis fight or flight toxicity is a recently discovered

disorder that generates a cascade of chemical imbalances. This cascade of

imbalances accelerates neurotransmission, poisons the brain, and causes a

progressively deteriorating dementia, which includes obsessive-compulsive

symptoms.

 

References:

 

1. Papageorgiou C, Rabavilas A, Liappas I, et al. Do obsessive-compulsive

patients and abstinent heroin addicts share a common psychophysiological

mechanism? Neuropsychobiology 2003; 47: 1-11.

 

2. Leocani L, Locatelli M, Bellodi L, et al. Abnormal pattern of cortical

activation associated with voluntary movement in obsessive-compulsive

disorder: an EEG study. Am J Psychiatry 2001; 158: 140-2.

 

3. Mac Master FP, Keshavan MS, Dick EL, et al. Corpus callosal signal

intensity in treatment-naive pediatric obsessive compulsive disorders. Prog

Neuropsychopharmacol Biol Psychiatry 1999; 23: 601-12.

 

4. Oades RD, Ropcke B, Eggers C. Monoamine activity reflected in urine of

young patients with obsessive compulsive disorder, psychosis with and

without reality distortion and healthy subjects: an explorative analysis. J

Neural Transm Gen Sect 1994; 96: 143-59.

 

5. McDougle CJ. Update on pharmacologic management of OCD: agents and

augmentation. J Clin Psychiatry 1997; 58 (S12): 11-7.

 

6. Molina V, Montz R, Perez-Castejon MJ, et al. Cerebral perfusion,

electrical activity and effects of serotonergic treatment in

obsessive-compulsive disorder. A preliminary study. Neuropsychobiology 1995;

32:139-48.

 

7. Bastani B, Arora RC, Meltzer HY. Serotonin uptake and imipramine binding

in the

 

blood platelets of obsessive-compulsive disorder patients. Biol Psychiatry

1991; 30:

 

131-9.

 

8. Perod AL, Roberts AE, McKinney WM. Caffeine can affect velocity in the

middle

 

cerebral artery during hyperventilation, hypoventilation, and thinking: a

transcranial

 

Doppler study. J Neuroimaging 2000; 10: 33-8.

 

9. Mathew RJ, Wilson WH, Tant S. Caffeine-induced cerebral blood flow

changes in

 

schizophrenia. Eur Arch Psychiatry Neurol Sci 1986; 235: 206-9.

 

10. Stewart AG, Ewan PW. The incidence, aetiology and management of

anaphylaxis

 

presenting to an accident and emergency department. QJM 1996; 89: 859-64.

 

11. Theissen JL, Zahn P, Theissen U, et al. Allergic and pseudo-allergic

reactions in

 

anesthesia. I: Pathogenesis, risk factors, substances. Anasthesiol

Intensivmed Notfallmed

 

Schmerzther 1995; 30: 3-12.

 

12. Revenas B, Smedegard G, Arfors KE. Anaphylaxis in the monkey:

respiratory

 

mechanics, acid-base status and blood gases. Acta Anaesthesiol Scand 1979;

23: 278-84.

 

13. Busatto GF, Buchpiguel CA, Zamignani DR, et al. Regional cerebral blood

flow abnormalities in early-onset obsessive-compulsive disorder: an

exploratory SPECT study. J Am Acad Child Adolesc Psychiatry 2001; 40:347-54.

 

14. Lucey JV, Costa DC, Busatto G, et al. Caudate regional cerebral blood

flow in obsessive-compulsive disorder, panic disorder and healthy controls

on single photon emission computerised tomography. Psychiatry Res 1997;

74:25-33.

 

15. Crespo-Facorro B, Cabranes JA, Lopez-Ibor Alcocer MI, et al. Regional

cerebral blood flow in obsessive-compulsive patients with and without a

chronic tic disorder. A SPECT study. Eur Arch Psychiatry Clin Neurosci 1999;

249:156-61.

 

16. Ratey JJ. Shadow Syndromes. New York: Pantheon, 1997; 283-286.

 

17. DelBello MP, Soutullo CA, Hendricks W, et al. Prior stimulant treatment

in adolescents with bipolar disorder: association with age at onset. Bipolar

Disord 2001; 3:53-7.

 

18. Berthier ML, Kulisevsky JJ, Gironell A, et al. Obsessive compulsive

disorder and traumatic brain injury: behavioral, cognitive, and neuroimaging

findings.

Neuropsychiatry Neuropsychol Behav Neurol 2001; 14: 23-31.

 

19. Childers MK, Holland D, Ryan MG, et al. Obsessional disorders during

recovery from severe head injury: report of four cases. Brain Inj 1998; 12:

613-6.

 

20. Max JE, Smith WL Jr, Lindgren SD, et al. Case study:

obsessive-compulsive disorder after severe traumatic brain injury in an

adolescent. J Am Acad Child Adolesc Psychiatry 1995; 34: 45-9.

 

21. Bick PA. Obsessive-compulsive behavior associated with dexamethasone

treatment.

J Nerv Ment Dis 1983; 171: 253-4.

 

22. Koizumi HM. Obsessive-compulsive symptoms following stimulants. Biol

Psychiatry

 

1985; 20: 1332-3.

 

23. Kotsopoulos S, Spivak M. Obsessive-compulsive symptoms secondary to

methylphenidate treatment (letter). Can J Psych. Feb. 2001. URL:

http://www.cpa-apc.org/Publications/Archives/CJP/2001/Feb/Letters4.asp.

[Cited June 2003].

 

(The author wishes to thank the public library staff of Falmouth,

Massachusetts.)

 

 

Privacy Statement:

We do not sell, and we do not share, our mailing list or your email address

with anyone. We never send out advertisements of any kind. You may notice

that there is no advertising at http://doctoryourself.com and no advertising

in this newsletter. We have no financial connection with the supplement

industry. We do not sell vitamins or other health products, except for Dr.

Saul's books, which help fund these free public services.

 

FREE SUBSCRIPTIONS FOR ALL to this newsletter are available with a blank

email to

 

dynews-

 

AN IMPORTANT NOTE: This newsletter is not in any way offered as

prescription, diagnosis nor treatment for any disease, illness, infirmity or

physical condition. Any form of self-treatment or alternative health program

necessarily must involve an individual's acceptance of some risk, and no one

should assume otherwise. Persons needing medical care should obtain it from

a physician. Consult your doctor before making any health decision.

 

" DOCTOR YOURSELF " " DoctorYourself.com " and " Doctor Yourself Newsletter " are

service marks of Andrew W. Saul. All rights reserved.

 

Copyright c 2003 and prior years Andrew W. Saul drsaul

Permission to reproduce single copies of this newsletter FOR NON-COMMERCIAL,

PERSONAL USE ONLY is hereby granted providing no alteration of content is

made and authorship credit is given. Additional single copies will be sent

by postal mail to a practitioner or patient, free of charge, upon receipt of

a self addressed envelope with THREE first-class stamps on it (offer good in

the USA only), to Number 8 Van Buren Street, Holley, NY 14470 USA Telephone

(585) 638-5357.

 

 

 

 

 

 

@

 

Alternative Medicine/Health-Vitamins, Herbs, Aminos, etc.

 

To , e-mail to:

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Or, go to our group site at:

alternative_medicine_forum

 

 

 

 

 

 

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