Hello everyone I need HELP can someone help me?

[Guest guest]

Hello group how is everyone doing?? Myself I am not doing any good I

have a reason for posting this message, I am 30 years old and I have

a family member that is trying to end my marriage and I am fixing to

crack is there an herb that I can use for a tea to help me out.

 

I really don't like asking but I have looked in my herb book and

can't find nothing to help losen up the pain and the hate that I have

for this one person and what she has done to my family, I am already

taking zoloft and st. john's wort but that don't seem like it is

enough for what I am dealing with.

 

If someone can let me know what I can do PLEASE let me know. Is

there a herb out there or should I just walk away from all of the

chaos?? Please I need help.

 

Thank you,

 

Eagle feather - Marie

[Guest guest]

Traditionally, in American society, helping to keep marriages together has been

part of the role of the church. Since many churches have been terribly

compromised in the past few decades, we end up turning to counselors who have no

foundation at all, either scientific or religious, and worse, we too often turn

to drugs.

 

This is not a situation that a drug or an herb can address. It is a situation

that can be addressed by prayer, study, and the building of virtues, That's

what religion is for. It has always been beyond the scope of herbal or any

other kind of medicine.

 

In Native American religion, the focus is more on individual counseling and

perhaps a Vision Quest for one or more of the parties involved. Of course in

the context of most tribes, keeping a marriage together by force no matter what

was regarded as silly. What was more important in those cultures, was usually

the building up and strengthening of family support networks on all sides

whenever a marriage crisis came up.

 

On Sun, 19 May 2002 06:57:30 -0000 eagle_feather0 <eagle_feather0

wrote:

 

Hello group how is everyone doing?? Myself I am not doing any good I

have a reason for posting this message, I am 30 years old and I have

a family member that is trying to end my marriage and I am fixing to

crack is there an herb that I can use for a tea to help me out.

 

I really don't like asking but I have looked in my herb book and

can't find nothing to help losen up the pain and the hate that I have

for this one person and what she has done to my family, I am already

taking zoloft and st. john's wort but that don't seem like it is

enough for what I am dealing with.

 

If someone can let me know what I can do PLEASE let me know. Is

there a herb out there or should I just walk away from all of the

chaos?? Please I need help.

 

Thank you,

 

Eagle feather - Marie

[Guest guest]

Hey Marie: Others on the list will probably suggest more calming,

mind-clearing and relaxing herbs for you to try. Myself, I just wanted to

remind you of something. Herbs cannot fix your life. Sometimes people

feel crappy or depressed or hateful for no good reason, and then sometimes

a nutritional adjustment is all that's needed to get them back on track.

But if you are already taking medication, herbal or otherwise, to manage

your icky feelings, and they keep coming up anyway, then this is a good

sign that you need to deal with the core problem.

 

This is not an intuitive thing to do: I once knew a man with a toothache

who put Oragel on it to kill the pain -- for months. When he finally had

to go to the dentist because the Oragel wasn't working anymore, the dentist

asked him what the heck had he been thinking?? Oragel is for pain

management UNTIL you can fix the problem; not as a substitute for fixing

it! (The man learned his lesson; he had to have a root canal, but if he'd

gone in sooner, it would have only been a filling.)

 

I've been in a situation like yours; very chaotic, confusing, emotional and

negative; my tendency was to keep looking for ways to " hang on " or " get by "

or " deal with " the pain, and if someone hadn't told me otherwise, I'd have

let the actual problem go on endlessly. It's natural human behavior to

shrink away from pain, but sometimes in order to affect any actual change,

you have to get in there and deal with a painful situation full-on. It

might feel like you can't do it without help; like the pain will swamp you

if you try to face the situation. Trust yourself a little. Just making

the decision to do something about your problem rather than hide from it

can give you more strength than you thought you had.

 

Best of luck to ya,

Sara T.

httpd://www.boredmail.com

[Guest guest]

WOMAN: Help me! My life is falling apart, my family is threatened, and I

don't know where to turn...I'm so depressed I can't take it, and all the

drugs I've tried haven't been enough to get me through a day...

 

MICHAEL: >Traditionally, in American society, helping to keep marriages

together has been part of the role of the church. Since many churches have

been terribly compromised in the past few decades, we end up turning to

counselors who have no foundation at all, either scientific or religious,

and worse, we too often turn to drugs.

 

WOMAN: I just want something to help me calm down, to stop this anger and

hate inside me that feels like it's eating me alive! I don't think I can

take feeling like this for one more day...

 

MICHAEL: >This is not a situation that a drug or an herb can address. It

is a situation that can be addressed by prayer, study, and the building of

virtues, That's what religion is for. It has always been beyond the scope

of herbal or any other kind of medicine.

 

WOMAN: *sniff* I just feel like I don't know where to turn...

 

MICHAEL: >In Native American religion, the focus is more on individual

counseling and perhaps a Vision Quest for one or more of the parties

involved. Of course in the context of most tribes, keeping a marriage

together by force no matter what was regarded as silly. What was more

important in those cultures, was usually the building up and strengthening

of family support networks on all sides whenever a marriage crisis came up.

 

Okay.

YIKES, Michael!

 

Like many group members, I appreciate your honest, enthusiastic and

well-informed posts, but you've got to stop hurting people's feelings!!

How could you answer this woman's plea for help by telling her she needs

" prayer, study and the development of virtues " , not " drugs " ?? I totally

agree with your point--as I'm sure most others will too--but you couldn't

have worded this to be a worse stab in the eye to the poor woman! I

answered her post too, and like you I tried to tell her that she needs to

deal with the problem and try not to rely on pain-management too much --

maybe I even hurt her feelings too. It's easy to do it, even when you try

not to--and I did try not to. But I can't make myself believe for a second

that you honestly considered her feelings when you were writing this post.

You're a smart guy. I just can't believe that anyone with your brains

would think for a second that this was a helpful thing to tell her. Am I

wrong? Is this something you would say to her, word for word, if she was

sobbing this story out to you in person??

 

I'm sorry about writing you privately and giving you this cussing out, but

I'm still trying to help get someone else over her anger at you--someone

else to whom you gave good advice, wrapped in nasty packaging. It's eating

at me, to see you--somebody who so obviously wants to be helpful--hurting

people's feelings left and right, and totally neutralizing any positive

effect that your message might have had in the process.

 

I sympathize totally with what you talked about in another post as your

occasional difficulties in communicating in a socially-appropriate way; I

have that problem too, have since I was a kid. But you know what? After a

while I learned that, instead of just writing or saying what I wanted to

say because I wanted a chance to say it, I've got to keep in mind the

mental state of the person I'm communicating with, and how my words might

affect that state. You're awfully good at thinking about how different

musics might affect a mental state; so I believe that you could easily do

this. What I said to this Marie woman might not be what she wanted to

hear, and she may not like it. But I did word it as carefully as I could,

and I tried to say what I had to say in such a way that it wouldn't come

across to her as accusing her or belittling her problem. But what YOU said

to her, here, I'd be surprised if it didn't send her wailing! She didn't

need a cold factual breakdown of how other people or distant societies deal

with marriage or your chilly views of its present state; and she didn't ask

to be told to go turn to religion, either. You might have been able to

present all of this advice and information, had you done it more carefully,

in such a way that she would have been comforted by it and therefore

accepting of it--but just throwing it out there at her was SO COLD! You

might as well have leaned off the bow of a ship and called to a drowning

person, " Hey! You don't need to be in that water! Society's put you

there--I mean, historically that's been the trend, but still, you don't

need to flail around like that! Come on, float on your back! Try

praying! "

 

I see exactly what you're trying to do, Michael. I see how you have

valuable, informed opinions with lots of factual basis, and how you know

very well that many, many people would benefit from knowing what you know.

But you can't shove what you know down people's throats! I'm not asking

you to stop saying what you're saying at all--you say great things. I

myself agree with almost everything you write. But please, for the love of

Pete, learn to reread your posts with the person you're posting to in mind,

and see if you can temper your language a bit. People aren't made of

steel! Ninety percent of the negative impact your 'rants' have on people

would, I think, dissappear if you chose your words more carefully. (How

about saying, " It's possible that spiritual comfort could help you, if

you're interested in persuing that path " instead of " This is not a problem

that can be solved by herbs...That's what religion is for " ?)

 

I mean, I want to be enthusiastic too, and stand up and be loud about what

I believe in -- But I can only do that with some people, in some

circumstances, or it comes off all wrong and does nobody any good...least

of all me, since I've gone and turned myself into a pariah by doing it.

 

I don't think you deserve pariah-hood and I'm not anxious to see people

disregard your opinions, because I think they're fresh, well-informed and

valuable. I think people could really benefit from the thoughts you have

to offer, if the medicine wasn't so bitter to swallow! Perhaps, because my

main hobby is as a writer, it's easier for me to spot out the connotations

of what I say and adjust them to my audience--that's what I *do*, after

all. In any case, you certainly don't have to take my advice--and I

apologize for slinging unwanted advice at you in the first place--but I

truly believe that you would get a much better reception for your ideas,

and a much better reputation personally, if you took a little time to try

these things.

 

Thanks and Sorry ;\

Sara T.

 

 

>On Sun, 19 May 2002 06:57:30 -0000 eagle_feather0

<eagle_feather0 wrote:

>

>Hello group how is everyone doing?? Myself I am not doing any good I

>have a reason for posting this message, I am 30 years old and I have

>a family member that is trying to end my marriage and I am fixing to

>crack is there an herb that I can use for a tea to help me out.

>

>I really don't like asking but I have looked in my herb book and

>can't find nothing to help losen up the pain and the hate that I have

>for this one person and what she has done to my family, I am already

>taking zoloft and st. john's wort but that don't seem like it is

>enough for what I am dealing with.

>

>If someone can let me know what I can do PLEASE let me know. Is

>there a herb out there or should I just walk away from all of the

>chaos?? Please I need help.

>

>Thank you,

>

>Eagle feather - Marie

>

httpd://www.boredmail.com

[Guest guest]

I have to say you said it all in one word sara " way to

go michael " . And No feelings hurt here I posted that

message cuz I was very pissed and with what I do I

didn't want to hurt someone..

 

And this is for michael, church is that all some of

you christians can say??? If someone else tells me I

need to pray I think that I will smack them!!!!! I

don't go to church and will never pain on going to

church.

 

You talk about Native Americans going on a vision

quest only if you are part of that tribe. The name

eagle_feather0 was givin to me by a very good friend

of mine which is an old indian medicine man. If he

was still around he would have helped me out and told

me what I needed to do.

 

I don't talk much about what I do because I know that

in some of the herb groups there are fundies and with

saying fundies you must know what I pratice. When I

am mad I hurt ppl with my mind and I don't like to I

would rather just a herb to calm me down before I was

to hurt someone.

 

And I didn't find that herb it helped a lot and that

herb is on the front of the group's home page. And

that herb is echinacea it helped a whole lot, I don't

have to pray to help calm me down cuz I know that soon

I will be happy again and I was with a full nights

sleep.

 

Michael before you give anyone advice anymore you need

to thing before you speak and if you looking at my

profile from you would have known don't tell me

to pray. Pray for yourself cuz from what it sounds

like you don't know what you are talking about and you

have no HEART unlike the other's in this group I thank

each one of them that helped me with my problem even

sara put it in words " Get over it " .

 

I love this group and what it means! This group means

to HELP others not to JUDGE or miss lead others I have

been learning for the last 8 years about all the

different herbs that help and I have been help alot

and now when someone wants to ask me for help I will

do so and not give them the WRONG advice.

 

Sara like you said Get over it, well it did the job as

well I got over it and now that I look at it now I

laugh at myself for posting a dumb message like that

and once again I would like to say THANK YOU everyone

that has tried to help me.

 

Marie

--- Sara Thustra <tv_is_a_drug wrote:

> WOMAN: Help me! My life is falling apart, my

> family is threatened, and I

> don't know where to turn...I'm so depressed I can't

> take it, and all the

> drugs I've tried haven't been enough to get me

> through a day...

>

> MICHAEL: >Traditionally, in American society,

> helping to keep marriages

> together has been part of the role of the church.

> Since many churches have

> been terribly compromised in the past few decades,

> we end up turning to

> counselors who have no foundation at all, either

> scientific or religious,

> and worse, we too often turn to drugs.

>

> WOMAN: I just want something to help me calm down,

> to stop this anger and

> hate inside me that feels like it's eating me alive!

> I don't think I can

> take feeling like this for one more day...

>

> MICHAEL: >This is not a situation that a drug or an

> herb can address. It

> is a situation that can be addressed by prayer,

> study, and the building of

> virtues, That's what religion is for. It has

> always been beyond the scope

> of herbal or any other kind of medicine.

>

> WOMAN: *sniff* I just feel like I don't know where

> to turn...

>

> MICHAEL: >In Native American religion, the focus is

> more on individual

> counseling and perhaps a Vision Quest for one or

> more of the parties

> involved. Of course in the context of most tribes,

> keeping a marriage

> together by force no matter what was regarded as

> silly. What was more

> important in those cultures, was usually the

> building up and strengthening

> of family support networks on all sides whenever a

> marriage crisis came up.

>

> Okay.

> YIKES, Michael!

>

> Like many group members, I appreciate your honest,

> enthusiastic and

> well-informed posts, but you've got to stop hurting

> people's feelings!!

> How could you answer this woman's plea for help by

> telling her she needs

> " prayer, study and the development of virtues " , not

> " drugs " ?? I totally

> agree with your point--as I'm sure most others will

> too--but you couldn't

> have worded this to be a worse stab in the eye to

> the poor woman! I

> answered her post too, and like you I tried to tell

> her that she needs to

> deal with the problem and try not to rely on

> pain-management too much --

> maybe I even hurt her feelings too. It's easy to do

> it, even when you try

> not to--and I did try not to. But I can't make

> myself believe for a second

> that you honestly considered her feelings when you

> were writing this post.

> You're a smart guy. I just can't believe that

> anyone with your brains

> would think for a second that this was a helpful

> thing to tell her. Am I

> wrong? Is this something you would say to her, word

> for word, if she was

> sobbing this story out to you in person??

>

> I'm sorry about writing you privately and giving you

> this cussing out, but

> I'm still trying to help get someone else over her

> anger at you--someone

> else to whom you gave good advice, wrapped in nasty

> packaging. It's eating

> at me, to see you--somebody who so obviously wants

> to be helpful--hurting

> people's feelings left and right, and totally

> neutralizing any positive

> effect that your message might have had in the

> process.

>

> I sympathize totally with what you talked about in

> another post as your

> occasional difficulties in communicating in a

> socially-appropriate way; I

> have that problem too, have since I was a kid. But

> you know what? After a

> while I learned that, instead of just writing or

> saying what I wanted to

> say because I wanted a chance to say it, I've got to

> keep in mind the

> mental state of the person I'm communicating with,

> and how my words might

> affect that state. You're awfully good at thinking

> about how different

> musics might affect a mental state; so I believe

> that you could easily do

> this. What I said to this Marie woman might not be

> what she wanted to

> hear, and she may not like it. But I did word it as

> carefully as I could,

> and I tried to say what I had to say in such a way

> that it wouldn't come

> across to her as accusing her or belittling her

> problem. But what YOU said

> to her, here, I'd be surprised if it didn't send her

> wailing! She didn't

> need a cold factual breakdown of how other people or

> distant societies deal

> with marriage or your chilly views of its present

> state; and she didn't ask

> to be told to go turn to religion, either. You

> might have been able to

> present all of this advice and information, had you

> done it more carefully,

> in such a way that she would have been comforted by

> it and therefore

> accepting of it--but just throwing it out there at

> her was SO COLD! You

> might as well have leaned off the bow of a ship and

> called to a drowning

> person, " Hey! You don't need to be in that water!

> Society's put you

> there--I mean, historically that's been the trend,

> but still, you don't

> need to flail around like that! Come on, float on

> your back! Try

> praying! "

>

> I see exactly what you're trying to do, Michael. I

> see how you have

> valuable, informed opinions with lots of factual

> basis, and how you know

> very well that many, many people would benefit from

> knowing what you know.

> But you can't shove what you know down people's

> throats! I'm not asking

> you to stop saying what you're saying at all--you

> say great things. I

> myself agree with almost everything you write. But

> please, for the love of

> Pete, learn to reread your posts with the person

> you're posting to in mind,

> and see if you can temper your language a bit.

> People aren't made of

> steel! Ninety percent of the negative impact your

> 'rants' have on people

> would, I think, dissappear if you chose your words

> more carefully. (How

> about saying, " It's possible that spiritual comfort

> could help you, if

> you're interested in persuing that path " instead of

> " This is not a problem

> that can be solved by herbs...That's what religion

> is for " ?)

>

> I mean, I want to be enthusiastic too, and stand up

> and be loud about what

> I believe in -- But I can only do that with some

> people, in some

> circumstances, or it comes off all wrong and does

> nobody any good...least

> of all me, since I've gone and turned myself into a

> pariah by doing it.

>

> I don't think you deserve pariah-hood and I'm not

> anxious to see people

> disregard your opinions, because I think they're

> fresh, well-informed and

> valuable. I think people could really benefit from

> the thoughts you have

> to offer, if the medicine wasn't so bitter to

> swallow! Perhaps, because my

> main hobby is as a writer, it's easier for me to

> spot out the connotations

> of what I say and adjust them to my audience--that's

> what I *do*, after

> all. In any case, you certainly don't have to take

> my advice--and I

> apologize for slinging unwanted advice at you in the

> first place--but I

> truly believe that you would get a much better

> reception for your ideas,

> and a much better reputation personally, if you took

> a little time to try

> these things.

>

> Thanks and Sorry ;\

> Sara T.

>

=== message truncated ===

 

 

 

 

LAUNCH - Your Music Experience

http://launch.

[Guest guest]

OK, found the troublesome post. And i do appreciate the apology.

 

I'm gonna have to think about this long and hard. Saw something from Eagle

Feather, but couldn't tell how much i might have hurt her from what she said

there. Wish that one had been saved, but it was accidentally deleted.

 

The only thing i really gotta say here, and it applies to all email list

groups, is this. Speaking out on behalf of someone who might have been

injured by a post tends to cause more trouble than it's worth. I've been

through this a lot in the past, where someone took up the cudgel (a crude

club used by the ancient Britons) against someone else, and ended up getting

a whole list in turmoil. Meanwhile, the original party who was being

defended said little or nothing, and in some cases left without a sound. I

have noticed that there are a few people who love to stir up trouble like

this, but on this list nobody is really like that, and if occasionally

someone makes a mistake in that direction, it's easily corrected.

 

In one case, a lady " accidentally on purpose " posted part of a quote from a

private message i'd sent her, to the whole list, and the ensuing

thunderstorm literally destroyed the group forever. There are a very few

people in the world who specialize in destroying good groups, and a few of

them prowl lists on the Internet. If we recognize the pattern early on,

either in ourselves or someone else, steps to correct the problem are easy.

 

But some of us carry bad habits around anyway. Mine is to be ruthless at

times when advising about family or mental problems. Others have the habit

of jumping in to defend people who really don't need a defense. The fact

that we can recognize these things, and deal with them openly, is actually

wonderful. Thanks to Ian's good sense in moderating this list, we are not

ever cursed for very long with the types of people who end up escalating

this type of conflict into something truly gruesome.

 

Sara, your honesty is great, and if i don't agree with you totally, maybe

with time and patience we will at least understand each other better.

You're doing fine.

 

At 02:55 PM 5/20/02 -0500, you wrote:

>WOMAN: Help me! My life is falling apart, my family is threatened, and I

>don't know where to turn...I'm so depressed I can't take it, and all the

>drugs I've tried haven't been enough to get me through a day...

>

>

-- Michael Riversong **

Professional Harpist, Educator, and Writer **

RivEdu ** Phone: (307)635-0900 FAX (413)691-0399

http://home.earthlink.net/~mriversong

[Guest guest]

Heya all: I totally agree with this...

 

>The only thing i really gotta say here, and it applies to all email list

>groups, is this. Speaking out on behalf of someone who might have been

>injured by a post tends to cause more trouble than it's worth.

 

Not only is that true from a let's-get-along perspective, but I think it's

important to remember (specially for people like me, yo) that part of

letting someone else have their freedon is letting them deal with their own

upsets and perceived injustices. For many of us, sticking up for someone

else is easier than doing so for ourselves (since there's less danger of

emotional bruises); but that's not healthy. It takes away energy we could

be using to detangle our own life-knots, and also deprives the injured

party of the chance to discover and rely on their own strength.

 

>Sara, your honesty is great, and if i don't agree with you totally, maybe

>with time and patience we will at least understand each other better.

 

Oh, I think we will. For one thing, our bad habits tend to kick in at

opposite times, and balance each other out very nicely. *wink*

 

Thanks for your insight and understanding.

 

--ST

 

httpd://www.boredmail.com