Osteoarthritis of the knee with a large osteophyte

[Guest guest]

Well, I finally got the MRI back on my knee. I injured it in

December and the herbal anti-inflams have kept it at bay but not

healed it completely. I still have pain with bending and occassional

popping. I thought the cartlidge was torn. Turns out it is severe

osteoarthritis (multiple knee injuries, sigh...) with the patella

shifting to the lateral side and a large lateral osteophyte.

Basically, the knee is deteriorating, the knee cap is shifted to the

side, and there is a piece of bone-like tissue in there. Any

suggestions on how to disolve the osteophyte & improve the

osteoarthritis? I am going to see someone to get some exercises to

strength the knee & hopefully realign the knee cap. All suggestions

welcome :-)

Thanks!

Nancy

[Guest guest]

MSM for one thing AND deep tissue repair formula

SUZI

nlpolsue <nlpolsue wrote: Well, I finally got the MRI back on my knee. I injured it in December and the herbal anti-inflams have kept it at bay but not healed it completely. I still have pain with bending and occassional popping. I thought the cartlidge was torn. Turns out it is severe osteoarthritis (multiple knee injuries, sigh...) with the patella shifting to the lateral side and a large lateral osteophyte. Basically, the knee is deteriorating, the knee cap is shifted to the side, and there is a piece of bone-like tissue in there. Any suggestions on how to disolve the osteophyte & improve the osteoarthritis? I am going to see someone to get some exercises to strength the knee & hopefully realign the knee cap. All suggestions welcome :-)Thanks!Nancy

[Guest guest]

Thanks! I'll have to see if I can gather the stuff to make the deep

tissue repair. I have been taking MSM, but not enough. I bought the

powder so I could take larger quantities, but haven't been able to

make myself take it consistently - VERY bitter, much worse than herbs

are :-) I am taking some of the capsules, though.

Nancy

 

herbal remedies, Suzanne Nottmeier <suziesgoats>

wrote:

>

> MSM for one thing AND deep tissue repair formula

> SUZI

> nlpolsue <nlpolsue@h...> wrote: Well, I finally got the MRI back

on my knee. I injured it in

> December and the herbal anti-inflams have kept it at bay but not

> healed it completely. I still have pain with bending and

occassional

> popping. I thought the cartlidge was torn. Turns out it is severe

> osteoarthritis (multiple knee injuries, sigh...) with the patella

> shifting to the lateral side and a large lateral osteophyte.

> Basically, the knee is deteriorating, the knee cap is shifted to

the

> side, and there is a piece of bone-like tissue in there. Any

> suggestions on how to disolve the osteophyte & improve the

> osteoarthritis? I am going to see someone to get some exercises to

> strength the knee & hopefully realign the knee cap. All suggestions

> welcome :-)

> Thanks!

> Nancy

>

>

>

> Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following:

> 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.

> 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any

natural remedy.

> 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own

physician and to

> prescribe for your own health.

> We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as

long as

> they behave themselves.

> Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and

any person

> following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own

risk.

> It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or

products from list members, you are agreeing to

> be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner

and members free of any liability.

>

> Dr. Ian Shillington

> Doctor of Naturopathy

> Dr.IanShillington@G...

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Nancy

 

I don,t know if my problems are in the same catagory, but 4 years going on,

I hurt my knee on wet lawn as i felt a sudden acute pain around the knee

area I slipped into a small depression and shook my knee to releive the

smarting pain but it didn,t relent, only let up later that afternoon when I

sat around and the morning I went to a fast food place and it was seemingly

ok--until I turn quickly to throw my refuge in the container the pain came

back full force. needless to say after a week of resting it the soreness was

present whenever I moved to quickly. Finally after 3 weeksI went to a doctor

and he said it was just a bad sprain after doing rotor exercising on the

knee bends etc. and put me on pain pills and a sheet of exercises to do at

home, and if it didn,t go away after 3 months he would refer me to a

specialist-- well the time came when I had to go to a specialist and he took

a MRI on it and discovered a tear in the back of myleft knee -but to small

for surgery. They say this is the worst kind because it hurts and hinders

your activities but is not enough to warrent surgery. I was told to go back

to my usual activities -but no lifting or running. And if the pain persisted

to take naproson and strong telenol for inflammation. I don,t beleive in

pain pills and never use them for any reason for the simple fact of

dependency on them and they cause muscle mass loss over time. I didn,t do

the exercises either after the initial 4 weeks because I was told too much

exercises can cause chronic pain - so its like being caught between a rock

and a hard place.

I think the vitamin regime and ignoring a certain amount of pain let nature

take its course of healing it (not completely) because ligament tears are

permanent where blood supply is minimal in the knee inner area.That is to

say I took it easy whenever pain set in and made my knee feel like a cement

weight was tied to it- and grow to gage what I could do and not do in a

normal pace. This has thus far kept me from the surgeons scapel. It takes

between a year to 3 years to actually feel free to walk distances or if the

going is tender wear a knee wrap. my vitamin regime is:

MaxEPA (fish oil concentrate) source of omega-3

polyunsaturates.--Lignan rich Flax Oil fresh ExPressed

1000mg ea --B-100 tablets -i a day of each and vitamin E. I used to put ice

on it but it is to the point now or I have a routine worked out of not

walking fast or climbing stairs any more than I need to -bottom line for me

anyway is to know your tolorance and rest intermitedly but don,t give up

using a joint that was made for mobility or it will only worsen it by

stiffining up more without moving it up and down even while you watch tv for

some counts- don,t let anyone tell you to strech it by applying pressure to

the joint in forcing it down -my aim was to lay in bed and press it down

into the mattress and now it touches the mattress even - but it took over

months to be able to do this and after 4 years and being careful not to

overtax the knee in normal walking and daily errands to stores -gives me

hope I may be doing the best thing in staving of surgery, granted that a

uncomfortablness is always felt but its not actual pain like in the

beginning. I might have some arthritis in the joint too because on real cold

days it bothers me when I am outside for more than a hour.

Hope this helps some

 

Rita

-

" nlpolsue " <nlpolsue

<herbal remedies >

Tuesday, March 12, 2002 8:40 PM

[herbal remedies] Osteoarthritis of the knee with a large

osteophyte

 

 

> Well, I finally got the MRI back on my knee. I injured it in

> December and the herbal anti-inflams have kept it at bay but not

> healed it completely. I still have pain with bending and occassional

> popping. I thought the cartlidge was torn. Turns out it is severe

> osteoarthritis (multiple knee injuries, sigh...) with the patella

> shifting to the lateral side and a large lateral osteophyte.

> Basically, the knee is deteriorating, the knee cap is shifted to the

> side, and there is a piece of bone-like tissue in there. Any

> suggestions on how to disolve the osteophyte & improve the

> osteoarthritis? I am going to see someone to get some exercises to

> strength the knee & hopefully realign the knee cap. All suggestions

> welcome :-)

> Thanks!

> Nancy

>

>

>

> Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following:

> 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.

> 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural

remedy.

> 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and

to

> prescribe for your own health.

> We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long

as

> they behave themselves.

> Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any

person

> following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk.

> It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from

list members, you are agreeing to

> be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and

members free of any liability.

>

> Dr. Ian Shillington

> Doctor of Naturopathy

> Dr.IanShillington

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks! I am already doing some of the things you mention. You are

definitely right about not overdoing it. When I do too much, boy do

I pay! If I rest it reasonably, it isn't so bad. Thanks again!

Nancy

 

herbal remedies, " Curly.Cue " <curly.cue@v...> wrote:

> Hello Nancy

>

> I don,t know if my problems are in the same catagory, but 4 years

going on,

> I hurt my knee on wet lawn as i felt a sudden acute pain around the

knee

> area I slipped into a small depression and shook my knee to releive

the

> smarting pain but it didn,t relent, only let up later that

afternoon when I

> sat around and the morning I went to a fast food place and it was

seemingly

> ok--until I turn quickly to throw my refuge in the container the

pain came

> back full force. needless to say after a week of resting it the

soreness was

> present whenever I moved to quickly. Finally after 3 weeksI went to

a doctor

> and he said it was just a bad sprain after doing rotor exercising

on the

> knee bends etc. and put me on pain pills and a sheet of exercises

to do at

> home, and if it didn,t go away after 3 months he would refer me to a

> specialist-- well the time came when I had to go to a specialist

and he took

> a MRI on it and discovered a tear in the back of myleft knee -but

to small

> for surgery. They say this is the worst kind because it hurts and

hinders

> your activities but is not enough to warrent surgery. I was told to

go back

> to my usual activities -but no lifting or running. And if the pain

persisted

> to take naproson and strong telenol for inflammation. I don,t

beleive in

> pain pills and never use them for any reason for the simple fact of

> dependency on them and they cause muscle mass loss over time. I

didn,t do

> the exercises either after the initial 4 weeks because I was told

too much

> exercises can cause chronic pain - so its like being caught between

a rock

> and a hard place.

> I think the vitamin regime and ignoring a certain amount of pain

let nature

> take its course of healing it (not completely) because ligament

tears are

> permanent where blood supply is minimal in the knee inner area.That

is to

> say I took it easy whenever pain set in and made my knee feel like

a cement

> weight was tied to it- and grow to gage what I could do and not do

in a

> normal pace. This has thus far kept me from the surgeons scapel. It

takes

> between a year to 3 years to actually feel free to walk distances

or if the

> going is tender wear a knee wrap. my vitamin regime is:

> MaxEPA (fish oil concentrate) source of omega-3

> polyunsaturates.--Lignan rich Flax Oil fresh ExPressed

> 1000mg ea --B-100 tablets -i a day of each and vitamin E. I used to

put ice

> on it but it is to the point now or I have a routine worked out of

not

> walking fast or climbing stairs any more than I need to -bottom

line for me

> anyway is to know your tolorance and rest intermitedly but don,t

give up

> using a joint that was made for mobility or it will only worsen it

by

> stiffining up more without moving it up and down even while you

watch tv for

> some counts- don,t let anyone tell you to strech it by applying

pressure to

> the joint in forcing it down -my aim was to lay in bed and press it

down

> into the mattress and now it touches the mattress even - but it

took over

> months to be able to do this and after 4 years and being careful

not to

> overtax the knee in normal walking and daily errands to stores -

gives me

> hope I may be doing the best thing in staving of surgery, granted

that a

> uncomfortablness is always felt but its not actual pain like in the

> beginning. I might have some arthritis in the joint too because on

real cold

> days it bothers me when I am outside for more than a hour.

> Hope this helps some

>

> Rita

> -

> " nlpolsue " <nlpolsue@h...>

> <herbal remedies>

> Tuesday, March 12, 2002 8:40 PM

> [herbal remedies] Osteoarthritis of the knee with a large

> osteophyte

>

>

> > Well, I finally got the MRI back on my knee. I injured it in

> > December and the herbal anti-inflams have kept it at bay but not

> > healed it completely. I still have pain with bending and

occassional

> > popping. I thought the cartlidge was torn. Turns out it is

severe

> > osteoarthritis (multiple knee injuries, sigh...) with the patella

> > shifting to the lateral side and a large lateral osteophyte.

> > Basically, the knee is deteriorating, the knee cap is shifted to

the

> > side, and there is a piece of bone-like tissue in there. Any

> > suggestions on how to disolve the osteophyte & improve the

> > osteoarthritis? I am going to see someone to get some exercises

to

> > strength the knee & hopefully realign the knee cap. All

suggestions

> > welcome :-)

> > Thanks!

> > Nancy

> >

> >

> >

> > Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following:

> > 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.

> > 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any

natural

> remedy.

> > 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own

physician and

> to

> > prescribe for your own health.

> > We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here

as long

> as

> > they behave themselves.

> > Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and

any

> person

> > following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own

risk.

> > It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or

products from

> list members, you are agreeing to

> > be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner

and

> members free of any liability.

> >

> > Dr. Ian Shillington

> > Doctor of Naturopathy

> > Dr.IanShillington@G...

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Outside of herbal remedies, it is worthwhile to try music. Really! I'm not

100% sure that it will work on everyone, but i do recommend trying this

specifically for joint problems: Flamenco. It's a Spanish style played

mostly on guitar. Many people have reported good results with it. If you

try it, let us know how it works for you.

 

At 07:04 PM 3/13/02 -0500, you wrote:

>Hello Nancy

>

>I don,t know if my problems are in the same catagory, but 4 years going on,

>I hurt my knee on wet lawn as i felt a sudden acute pain around the knee

>area I slipped into a small depression and shook my knee to releive the

>smarting pain but it didn,t relent, only let up later that afternoon when I

>sat around and the morning I went to a fast food place and it was seemingly

>ok--until I turn quickly to throw my refuge in the container the pain came

>back full force. needless to say after a week of resting it the soreness was

>present whenever I moved to quickly. Finally after 3 weeksI went to a doctor

>and he said it was just a bad sprain after doing rotor exercising on the

>knee bends etc. and put me on pain pills and a sheet of exercises to do at

>home, and if it didn,t go away after 3 months he would refer me to a

>specialist-- well the time came when I had to go to a specialist and he took

>a MRI on it and discovered a tear in the back of myleft knee -but to small

>for surgery. They say this is the worst kind because it hurts and hinders

>your activities but is not enough to warrent surgery. I was told to go back

>to my usual activities -but no lifting or running. And if the pain persisted

>to take naproson and strong telenol for inflammation. I don,t beleive in

>pain pills and never use them for any reason for the simple fact of

>dependency on them and they cause muscle mass loss over time. I didn,t do

>the exercises either after the initial 4 weeks because I was told too much

>exercises can cause chronic pain - so its like being caught between a rock

>and a hard place.

>I think the vitamin regime and ignoring a certain amount of pain let nature

>take its course of healing it (not completely) because ligament tears are

>permanent where blood supply is minimal in the knee inner area.That is to

>say I took it easy whenever pain set in and made my knee feel like a cement

>weight was tied to it- and grow to gage what I could do and not do in a

>normal pace. This has thus far kept me from the surgeons scapel. It takes

>between a year to 3 years to actually feel free to walk distances or if the

>going is tender wear a knee wrap. my vitamin regime is:

>MaxEPA (fish oil concentrate) source of omega-3

>polyunsaturates.--Lignan rich Flax Oil fresh ExPressed

>1000mg ea --B-100 tablets -i a day of each and vitamin E. I used to put ice

>on it but it is to the point now or I have a routine worked out of not

>walking fast or climbing stairs any more than I need to -bottom line for me

>anyway is to know your tolorance and rest intermitedly but don,t give up

>using a joint that was made for mobility or it will only worsen it by

>stiffining up more without moving it up and down even while you watch tv for

>some counts- don,t let anyone tell you to strech it by applying pressure to

>the joint in forcing it down -my aim was to lay in bed and press it down

>into the mattress and now it touches the mattress even - but it took over

>months to be able to do this and after 4 years and being careful not to

>overtax the knee in normal walking and daily errands to stores -gives me

>hope I may be doing the best thing in staving of surgery, granted that a

>uncomfortablness is always felt but its not actual pain like in the

>beginning. I might have some arthritis in the joint too because on real cold

>days it bothers me when I am outside for more than a hour.

>Hope this helps some

>

>Rita

[Guest guest]

I am certainly willing to try it. Do I listen to it for a specific

period of time, how many times a day, etc? Please excuse my

ignorance of the subject :-)

 

Nancy

 

herbal remedies, Michael Riversong <rivedu@e...> wrote:

> Outside of herbal remedies, it is worthwhile to try music.

Really! I'm not

> 100% sure that it will work on everyone, but i do recommend trying

this

> specifically for joint problems: Flamenco. It's a Spanish style

played

> mostly on guitar. Many people have reported good results with it.

If you

> try it, let us know how it works for you.

>

> At 07:04 PM 3/13/02 -0500, you wrote:

> >Hello Nancy

> >

> >I don,t know if my problems are in the same catagory, but 4 years

going on,

> >I hurt my knee on wet lawn as i felt a sudden acute pain around

the knee

> >area I slipped into a small depression and shook my knee to

releive the

> >smarting pain but it didn,t relent, only let up later that

afternoon when I

> >sat around and the morning I went to a fast food place and it was

seemingly

> >ok--until I turn quickly to throw my refuge in the container the

pain came

> >back full force. needless to say after a week of resting it the

soreness was

> >present whenever I moved to quickly. Finally after 3 weeksI went

to a doctor

> >and he said it was just a bad sprain after doing rotor exercising

on the

> >knee bends etc. and put me on pain pills and a sheet of exercises

to do at

> >home, and if it didn,t go away after 3 months he would refer me to

a

> >specialist-- well the time came when I had to go to a specialist

and he took

> >a MRI on it and discovered a tear in the back of myleft knee -but

to small

> >for surgery. They say this is the worst kind because it hurts and

hinders

> >your activities but is not enough to warrent surgery. I was told

to go back

> >to my usual activities -but no lifting or running. And if the pain

persisted

> >to take naproson and strong telenol for inflammation. I don,t

beleive in

> >pain pills and never use them for any reason for the simple fact of

> >dependency on them and they cause muscle mass loss over time. I

didn,t do

> >the exercises either after the initial 4 weeks because I was told

too much

> >exercises can cause chronic pain - so its like being caught

between a rock

> >and a hard place.

> >I think the vitamin regime and ignoring a certain amount of pain

let nature

> >take its course of healing it (not completely) because ligament

tears are

> >permanent where blood supply is minimal in the knee inner

area.That is to

> >say I took it easy whenever pain set in and made my knee feel like

a cement

> >weight was tied to it- and grow to gage what I could do and not do

in a

> >normal pace. This has thus far kept me from the surgeons scapel.

It takes

> >between a year to 3 years to actually feel free to walk distances

or if the

> >going is tender wear a knee wrap. my vitamin regime is:

> >MaxEPA (fish oil concentrate) source of omega-3

> >polyunsaturates.--Lignan rich Flax Oil fresh ExPressed

> >1000mg ea --B-100 tablets -i a day of each and vitamin E. I used

to put ice

> >on it but it is to the point now or I have a routine worked out of

not

> >walking fast or climbing stairs any more than I need to -bottom

line for me

> >anyway is to know your tolorance and rest intermitedly but don,t

give up

> >using a joint that was made for mobility or it will only worsen it

by

> >stiffining up more without moving it up and down even while you

watch tv for

> >some counts- don,t let anyone tell you to strech it by applying

pressure to

> >the joint in forcing it down -my aim was to lay in bed and press

it down

> >into the mattress and now it touches the mattress even - but it

took over

> >months to be able to do this and after 4 years and being careful

not to

> >overtax the knee in normal walking and daily errands to stores -

gives me

> >hope I may be doing the best thing in staving of surgery, granted

that a

> >uncomfortablness is always felt but its not actual pain like in the

> >beginning. I might have some arthritis in the joint too because on

real cold

> >days it bothers me when I am outside for more than a hour.

> >Hope this helps some

> >

> >Rita

[Guest guest]

That's ok. Few musicians know very much about this either. And there

certainly is a need for more research, if only someone would fund it.

 

Generally the best time to listen to Flamenco in these cases is during a

time when you would normally be relaxing. After a while, if your condition

improves, you could try doing some light & gentle exercise while listening.

Start with stretches. About 40 minutes or so is best when using recordings.

If you're able to catch some live, only a few minutes will often produce

dramatic results.

 

At 11:57 PM 3/17/02 -0000, you wrote:

>I am certainly willing to try it. Do I listen to it for a specific

>period of time, how many times a day, etc? Please excuse my

>ignorance of the subject :-)

>

>Nancy

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks! I'll be looking for some tapes and/or cds.

Nancy

 

herbal remedies, Michael Riversong <rivedu@e...> wrote:

> That's ok. Few musicians know very much about this either. And

there

> certainly is a need for more research, if only someone would fund

it.

>

> Generally the best time to listen to Flamenco in these cases is

during a

> time when you would normally be relaxing. After a while, if your

condition

> improves, you could try doing some light & gentle exercise while

listening.

> Start with stretches. About 40 minutes or so is best when using

recordings.

> If you're able to catch some live, only a few minutes will often

produce

> dramatic results.

>

> At 11:57 PM 3/17/02 -0000, you wrote:

> >I am certainly willing to try it. Do I listen to it for a

specific

> >period of time, how many times a day, etc? Please excuse my

> >ignorance of the subject :-)

> >

> >Nancy

> >