Acceptance of view points!/ was Arab v. Westerner

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 9/13/01 2:57:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ccoates writes:

 

 

NO true religion, certainly not based on God, and His precepts, condones this evil behavior.

 

I usually just read here and don't post much, but you are incorrect. There are radical branches of Muslim that do believe that God (remember, it is not the Christian God, but their god is Allah) DOES condone the killing of people, especially Christians. There are indeed religions that DO condone behavior that to us is just abhorrent. Please educate yourself before you make such blanket statements. Whether you agree with their beliefs, their god, etc., does not mean that these religions do not exist.

 

Teri

[Guest guest]

Hello,

''The whole Arab culture is one where father will slay son, bother

will attack brother and women are regarded as little more than dogs''. This is not a racist remark ? Nijma

[Guest guest]

Dear Coates,

 

I don't think anyone here has rose-colored glasses or is unaware that terrorists frequently use religion to justify their actions. I am quite sure that everyone here is aware of hatred in this country for other people and in other countries for the American people and have experienced it first hand in one form or the other. There is no ignorance or denial here.

The reason that I (and apparently others) felt that these remarks were racist is that there was absolutely no qualification to them. They are a very broad and sweeping set of negative statements and stereotypes about one particular ethnic group. To describe a complete, entire ethnic group in these terms with no reservations or making no qualifications indicating that these characterizations only apply to some people in the ethnic group is what makes these statements appear so racist.

 

How would you feel if your entire ethnic group were described in these terms? How would you feel if someone came on the list and took upon themselves to explain to everyone what the problem with white people or black people was?

 

I don't want to get in a long-winded fight with everyone here over this issue. It may be possible that she meant only to describe the reason that SOME Arabs hate Americans and other people. If thats the case, then she can simply say so and then hopefully everyone will forgive and forget. From her other posts she seems like a nice lady and not someone who hates other people on the basis of race.

 

It has been a long two days since the attack and I am sure that we are all very tired and have heightened sensitivity to these issues. I know that I am. I myself am sorry if I have offended anyone with my response to her remarks. I simply did not feel that those types of statements should go unchallenged. Again, my apologies to all concerned.

 

Robert Jemison

 

Coates <ccoatesherbal remedies <herbal remedies >Thursday, September 13, 2001 5:52 PM[herbal remedies] Acceptance of view points!/ was Arab v. WesternerTime to take off the rose-colored glasses....don't be fooled; terrorists HIDE behind the NAME of religion as their excuse for what they do and their inhumanity. NO true religion, certainly not based on God, and His precepts, condones this evil behavior. So there is NO religion being bashed here! These aren't racist remarks....they're educated observations of fact by one of the few that have chosen NOT to wear blinders when it comes to how other countries feel about America(ns), and how they treat even their own people, that if more people would wake up and accept the serious truth of, we may have avoided this week's events entirely......Penny's only error may have been in sending this here, thinking that people were tolerant/open minded enough to consider a different point of view. Aren't we as a people/nation constantly reminded/encouraged to accept just such variations in expression (speech) just as we are to accept various religions????Keep this mentality and denial up and "history repeats itself" will be our next sad and shocking lesson/reminder in life. I know....ignorance is bliss....how sad. Ignorance + denial...what a deadly equation. Educate yourselves....soon.CoatesAt 01:18 PM 9/13/2001 -0400, you wrote:

Nijma, I have only been on this list approximately one week and I prefer not to post in general on any list because I am a relatively shy person who prefers to read rather than participate. In spite of this preference, I will stand up and say something here. There is absolutely no excuse for the absolutely racist statements made by Penny Khaled.For those of you who just skimmed the e-mail with reading, here are direct 'cut and paste' copies of two of the most racist and offensive statements made by this bigot. (1) "The whole Arab culture is one where father will slay son, bother will attack brother and women are regarded as little more than dogs." (2) "In my view, the only solution to this problem is to educate the Arab populace so that their Religious and Hereditary leaders can cease manipulating them with degraded lies." These statements do not refer simply to "fanatical" Arabs, they refer to the entire Arab culture as evidenced by the phrasing above. Is it any wonder these people hate us when this is the treatment that they receive from us? The atrocities in New York will occur again and again, in this country and others, committed by both terrorists and governments, until the type of bigotry expressed by the statements in the message from Penny Khalud cease to exist. These statements are the type of statements that white people in this country used to make about Native Americans and Blacks to justify there oppression and slaughter. The statement about eradication reminds me of how Hitler proposed to deal with the Jewish problem. Dr. Shillington, the list rules sent to me when I d to this list state the following: "Under no circumstances will any Religion Bashing, the criticizing of any Religion, or Flaming be allowed on this list. All members of any religion are welcome to be members of this list. Any violation of this rule will result in instant unsubscription and banning." I hope that this rule will be enforced immediately. Thank you. Robert Jemison

MartiWI <blueheaven herbal remedies <herbal remedies > Thursday, September 13, 2001 12:52 PM Re: [herbal remedies] Arab v. Westerner

I'm so sorry that you were hurt and feel that this is racist. Her words apply to the fanatics of the Arab world not everyone. Their war to them is a Holy war. That is why they refer to America as the big satan. Even Israeli is only a little satan. We must denounce any hatred no matter where it comes from. I pray for all of the innocent Arab community. We must be aware of the beliefs and policy of the fanatics and we must be able to tell the difference.

Marti

Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and to prescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian Shillington Doctor of Naturopathy Dr.IanShillington

 

[Guest guest]

Hello All,

I apologize if I've unleashed a hornet's nest with my original response to Penny's post. I am going to assume that is was emotional stress as Doc Ian said, and leave it at that. My personal feelings are not important right now. The families and friends of the victims are the ones we should be thinking about. Again, I apologize.

Love,

Nijma

[Guest guest]

Hello,

The word Allah is arabic for God. Christian arabs also call God Allah. I don't know about RADICAL muslims, but I do know that the God muslims believe in is the God of Abraham, Noah, Jesus etc.;

Nijma

[Guest guest]

Having read all this debate over Middle Eastern fundamentalism, I have to ask, especially americans, if anyone else has read Noam Chomsky?

 

So many things have taken place around the world, many traceable to american governmental involvement (say, East Timor, for example), that I'm surprised so few american citizens are aware of the whys behind anti-western sentiment.

 

The desire for revenge on the terrorists is very understandable, but I think we should all take a look at what has gone on over the past 30 years in the middle east (and else where, for that matter), to create a miasma of fear, loathing and disdain for all things Western. Folks is the middle east didn't just decide to hate us Westerners; small things like gun running (both the US and Canada sell arms internationally and indescriminately), turning a blind eye to drugs (so long as it's for the 'enemy'), assisting in genocide (such as in E.Timor), protecting corporate rights over everyone else's... all of this (which have been documented, give me a week, and I could site them) PLUS whatever propaganda is being used all have their effect. Just as we become affected by what our media and governments chose to tell us.

 

I agree, lets find the individuals responsible and punish them. But to punish cultures that have been, at least in part, shaped by american international policies... I don't think that's justice at all.

~*~cheers, Kat/Perchta~~~*~momma to Rebecca, born July/00

[Guest guest]

Dear Robert,

 

No need to apologize for being tolerant.

 

Thank you for your input.

 

Love,

 

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.505-772-5889Dr.IanShillington

 

-

Robert Michael Jemison

herbal remedies

Thursday, September 13, 2001 4:33 PM

Re: [herbal remedies] Acceptance of view points!/ was Arab v. Westerner

 

Dear Coates,

 

I don't think anyone here has rose-colored glasses or is unaware that terrorists frequently use religion to justify their actions. I am quite sure that everyone here is aware of hatred in this country for other people and in other countries for the American people and have experienced it first hand in one form or the other. There is no ignorance or denial here.

The reason that I (and apparently others) felt that these remarks were racist is that there was absolutely no qualification to them. They are a very broad and sweeping set of negative statements and stereotypes about one particular ethnic group. To describe a complete, entire ethnic group in these terms with no reservations or making no qualifications indicating that these characterizations only apply to some people in the ethnic group is what makes these statements appear so racist.

 

How would you feel if your entire ethnic group were described in these terms? How would you feel if someone came on the list and took upon themselves to explain to everyone what the problem with white people or black people was?

 

I don't want to get in a long-winded fight with everyone here over this issue. It may be possible that she meant only to describe the reason that SOME Arabs hate Americans and other people. If thats the case, then she can simply say so and then hopefully everyone will forgive and forget. From her other posts she seems like a nice lady and not someone who hates other people on the basis of race.

 

It has been a long two days since the attack and I am sure that we are all very tired and have heightened sensitivity to these issues. I know that I am. I myself am sorry if I have offended anyone with my response to her remarks. I simply did not feel that those types of statements should go unchallenged. Again, my apologies to all concerned.

 

Robert Jemison

 

Coates <ccoatesherbal remedies <herbal remedies >Thursday, September 13, 2001 5:52 PM[herbal remedies] Acceptance of view points!/ was Arab v. WesternerTime to take off the rose-colored glasses....don't be fooled; terrorists HIDE behind the NAME of religion as their excuse for what they do and their inhumanity. NO true religion, certainly not based on God, and His precepts, condones this evil behavior. So there is NO religion being bashed here! These aren't racist remarks....they're educated observations of fact by one of the few that have chosen NOT to wear blinders when it comes to how other countries feel about America(ns), and how they treat even their own people, that if more people would wake up and accept the serious truth of, we may have avoided this week's events entirely......Penny's only error may have been in sending this here, thinking that people were tolerant/open minded enough to consider a different point of view. Aren't we as a people/nation constantly reminded/encouraged to accept just such variations in expression (speech) just as we are to accept various religions????Keep this mentality and denial up and "history repeats itself" will be our next sad and shocking lesson/reminder in life. I know....ignorance is bliss....how sad. Ignorance + denial...what a deadly equation. Educate yourselves....soon.CoatesAt 01:18 PM 9/13/2001 -0400, you wrote:

Nijma, I have only been on this list approximately one week and I prefer not to post in general on any list because I am a relatively shy person who prefers to read rather than participate. In spite of this preference, I will stand up and say something here. There is absolutely no excuse for the absolutely racist statements made by Penny Khaled.For those of you who just skimmed the e-mail with reading, here are direct 'cut and paste' copies of two of the most racist and offensive statements made by this bigot. (1) "The whole Arab culture is one where father will slay son, bother will attack brother and women are regarded as little more than dogs." (2) "In my view, the only solution to this problem is to educate the Arab populace so that their Religious and Hereditary leaders can cease manipulating them with degraded lies." These statements do not refer simply to "fanatical" Arabs, they refer to the entire Arab culture as evidenced by the phrasing above. Is it any wonder these people hate us when this is the treatment that they receive from us? The atrocities in New York will occur again and again, in this country and others, committed by both terrorists and governments, until the type of bigotry expressed by the statements in the message from Penny Khalud cease to exist. These statements are the type of statements that white people in this country used to make about Native Americans and Blacks to justify there oppression and slaughter. The statement about eradication reminds me of how Hitler proposed to deal with the Jewish problem. Dr. Shillington, the list rules sent to me when I d to this list state the following: "Under no circumstances will any Religion Bashing, the criticizing of any Religion, or Flaming be allowed on this list. All members of any religion are welcome to be members of this list. Any violation of this rule will result in instant unsubscription and banning." I hope that this rule will be enforced immediately. Thank you. Robert Jemison

MartiWI <blueheaven herbal remedies <herbal remedies > Thursday, September 13, 2001 12:52 PM Re: [herbal remedies] Arab v. Westerner

I'm so sorry that you were hurt and feel that this is racist. Her words apply to the fanatics of the Arab world not everyone. Their war to them is a Holy war. That is why they refer to America as the big satan. Even Israeli is only a little satan. We must denounce any hatred no matter where it comes from. I pray for all of the innocent Arab community. We must be aware of the beliefs and policy of the fanatics and we must be able to tell the difference.

Marti

[Guest guest]

AHHH!! Nijma, you expressed your point of view, made everyone aware of the problem and now you are holding out your hand for peace. Way to go. Patty

[Guest guest]

If it hadn't been you, it would have been someone else. Your words were a

gentle and good response IMO.

 

At 10:54 PM 9/13/01 EDT, you wrote:

>Hello All,

> I apologize if I've unleashed a hornet's nest with my original response

>to Penny's post. I am going to assume that is was emotional stress as Doc Ian

>said, and leave it at that. My personal feelings are not important right now.

>The families and friends of the victims are the ones we should be thinking

>about. Again, I apologize.

>

>Love,

>

>Nijma

>

-- Michael Riversong **

Professional Harpist, Educator, and Writer **

RivEdu ** Phone: (307)635-0900 FAX (413)691-0399

http://home.earthlink.net/~mriversong

[Guest guest]

Just out of curiosity, what does IMO mean? I've seen this written several times but still don't get it. I only recently figured out that ISO means In Search Of! *lol* AuntyB

 

If it hadn't been you, it would have been someone else. Your words were agentle and good response IMO.

[Guest guest]

No need to apologize hon and yes your personal feelings are important right now.

 

Love,

 

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.505-772-5889Dr.IanShillington

 

-

blnk778

herbal remedies

Thursday, September 13, 2001 8:54 PM

Re: [herbal remedies] Acceptance of view points!/ was Arab v. Westerner

Hello All, I apologize if I've unleashed a hornet's nest with my original response to Penny's post. I am going to assume that is was emotional stress as Doc Ian said, and leave it at that. My personal feelings are not important right now. The families and friends of the victims are the ones we should be thinking about. Again, I apologize. Love, Nijma

[Guest guest]

IMO means In My Opinion...sorry if someone else has responded.

Kristie

 

-

" AuntyB GardenLady " <auntyb

<herbal remedies >

Friday, September 14, 2001 11:04 AM

Re: [herbal remedies] Acceptance of view points!/ was Arab v.

Westerner

 

 

Just out of curiosity, what does IMO mean? I've seen this written several

times but still don't get it. I only recently figured out that ISO means In

Search Of! *lol* AuntyB

 

If it hadn't been you, it would have been someone else. Your words were a

gentle and good response IMO.