Arab v. Westerner

[Guest guest]

I don't see a bit of rage as too unhealthy in these circumstances as if the shoe was on the other foot and it was an American Person walking the streets of the Muslim nations then it would result in certain death, if the Americans had brought this devastation upon them, then every person with a western appearance would die from group attacks. As a Nation as a whole they are very Violent in their ways, and as a nation as a whole the US is fairly civilized. Under the happenings of the last few days, to be a Muslim in America may be difficult, but a Muslim will fight for his God first and everything else comes second. Allah does not like America. (not in his own words,only according to some religious leaders that he has spoken to.)

No matter where in the world a Muslim lives,Allah is the strongest force within their lives.whilst this is the case no country can ever trust its Muslim community in time of conflict. I am not saying that every Muslim will become a terrorist but Allah has a strong hold over many and this must be taken seriously.

The occasional person hearing voices in their head is a worry to society, what happens when a whole race of people are hearing the same voice.

This is just my opinion, and no im not willing to die for it. so please if you find great offence to it. Lighten Up, Chill out, The world doesn't have to be Deadly Serious all the time. it can be a fun place to exist in.

 

Tom M

 

MartiWI [blueheaven]Friday, 14 September 2001 02:50herbal remedies Subject: Re: [herbal remedies] Arab v. WesternerI'm so sorry that you were hurt and feel that this is racist. Her wordsapply to the fanatics of the Arab world not everyone. Their war to themis a Holy war. That is why they refer to America as the big satan.Even Israeli is only a little satan.We must denounce any hatred no matter where it comes from. I pray forall of the innocent Arab community. We must be aware of the beliefs andpolicy of the fanatics and we must be able to tell the difference.MartiFederal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

[Guest guest]

Albert Einstein once said, if a person knew one percent of one percent of everything to be known then they would be the smartest person in the world. I would guess that the knowledge the governments of the world release to us is around the same figure.

and with that knowledge many of us have become experts.

Believe me most Australians as myself are very emotionally shaken by this. I say good on you for having the positive arrogance that lacks in some ways from a lot of Australian people. The ability to stand up and say I am the best, wether that be a sporting contest or a cook off or your chosen profession, Americans may travel the world with a degree of arrogance, WE are the best attitude, but it is a healthy attitude to adopt for a country. maybe if we in Australia had a bit more of this, more people would stand on their own feet, believe in themselves and stop blaming the government for everything that ever goes wrong.

 

Tom

 

MartiWI [blueheaven]Saturday, 15 September 2001 07:02herbal remedies Subject: Re: [herbal remedies] Arab v. WesternerI usually don't get offended by what people say but to suggest that our country did this to itself just to promote the military, especially in light of what is known is highly offensive. Marti Peela wrote: But the whole thing could be a huge, well designed set up for America to go to war to justify its huge military .Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

[Guest guest]

Just found out that Osama bin Laden's right hand man is a Psychiatrist.

 

It figures!

 

Love,

 

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.505-772-5889Dr.IanShillington

 

-

Penny Khaled

herbal remedies

Thursday, September 13, 2001 8:01 AM

[herbal remedies] Arab v. Westerner

Dear Herbalist. A lot has been said about these events which are unconceivable to aWestern Mind. The response in more than one person that I have talked to is"WAR">>I would like to point out that the fanatical Muslim WANTSA WAR. That is the whole point. The whole Arab culture is one where father will slay son, botherwill attack brother and women are regarded as little more than dogs. WHY? When all other nations build upon the foundation of a family. wherethe parents help their children and blood ties are stronger than anybond, the Arabs have EXACTLY the opposite view. Again WHY?Because the Koran makes it quite clear that those who die in a waragainst the Infidels will get to their Paradise. This is drummed in daily to the youth of the country. The harsh conditions in a dessert land developed the strict codeofself preservation. A brother will kill his brother if, by so doing, he will survive. It is in their culture. The oilmoney had given the top leaders tremendous power. The wealth of the countries is not due to their expertise as it hasbeen over here in America. So the wealth has not been passed down to the individuals in thecountry. Look at the shots you see of the individual Arabs. They are poorbeyond belief Yet their countries are rich Why don't the leaders share their wealth and at least improve theconditions in the country? Because, traditionally , it is brother against brother, son againstfather and ruler against the ruled. So, what do the common folk want? A life in Paradise. And, how can they achieve this great and illustrious nextlife?(remember - the rulers are keeping them poor and illiterate) By a HOLY WAR. Who are the Infidels? The Westerners. What would be the greatest event in the life of the Arabs? A Holy War against the Infidels where they can die and get toPradise. King Richard in the Crusades, and most of Christendom, wasdetermined to stamp out these barbaric races. We didn't succeed then, And, now, by a quirk of fate, these fanatical races have the Oilthat is making them one of the richest nations in the world. Without having to educate and elighten the populace. Throughout history, the Arabs, have been the most feared warriorsdue to this. They WANT to die. In my view, the only solution to this problem is to educate the Arabpopulace so that their Religious and Hereditary leaders can ceasemanipulating them with degraded lies. A idea is far stronger than the sword. ................Love PennyFederal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

[Guest guest]

I do not condone the blanket condemnation of any race for whatever reason, but

one also has to expect the " bristles to be raised " so to speak when something so

blatent and cowardly is dropped in your own backyard; especially from those who

lost loved ones. The same thing happened from ignorance of culture and facts

after Pearl Harbor, but Japanese-Americans (and I hate to use those hyphenated

nationalist identities) as a whole did not suffer any permanently disabling

outcome, as time mended the brunt of hate and hostility, albeit after defeating

the offending " enemy " !

 

People are scared of what they don't understand, especially when you find that

the government that should be " immune " to these things let's every Tom, Dick,

and Harry in this country, as if they think that they are immune!

 

Hatred breeds hatred, so everyone should be understanding and tolerant, but that

doesn't give license to abuse or stereotype except those parties warranted!

 

In Health, and very pissed at " the spineless bastards " ,

Steve

Steve

-----------------------------

Nijma,

 

I have only been on this list approximately one week and I prefer not to

post in general on any list because I am a relatively shy person who pre fers to

read rather than participate. In spite of this preference, I will stand up and

say something here.

 

There is absolutely no excuse for the absolutely racist statements mad e by

Penny Khaled.

For those of you who just skimmed the e-mail with reading, here are direct 'cut

and paste' copies of two of the most racist and offensive statements m ade by

this bigot.

 

(1) " The whole Arab culture is one where father will slay son, bother will

attack brother and women are regarded as little more than dogs. "

 

(2) " In my view, the only solution to this problem is to educate the Arab p

opulace so that their Religious and Hereditary leaders can cease manipulati ng

them with degraded lies. "

 

These statements do not refer simply to " fanatical " Arabs, they refer to

the entire Arab culture as evidenced by the phrasing above.

 

Is it any wonder these people hate us when this is the treatment that they

receive from us?

 

The atrocities in New York will occur again and again, in this country a nd

others, committed by both terrorists and governments, until the type of bigotry

expressed by the statements in the message from Penny Khalud cease to exist.

 

These statements are the type of statements that white people in this

country used to make about Native Americans and Blacks to justify there opp

ression and slaughter. The statement about eradication reminds me of how H

itler proposed to deal with the Jewish problem.

 

Dr. Shillington, the list rules sent to me when I d to this l ist

state the following:

 

" Under no circumstances will any Religion Bashing, the criticizing of any R

eligion, or Flaming be allowed on this list. All members of any religion a re

welcome to be members of this list. Any violation of this rule will res ult in

instant unsubscription and banning. "

 

I hope that this rule will be enforced immediately. Thank you.

 

Robert Jemison

[Guest guest]

The original post from Penny was puzzling to me, and seemed a bit out of

character. Therefore, i would agree with what Ian has said here. I do the

same sort of thing sometimes -- demonstrating misemotion during tough times.

In fact i was guilty of that today, in thoroughly blasting a certain

lawyer's secretary -- something i would not ordinarily do under the

circumstances. Fortunately i got ahold of myself and simply left the office

before doing anything more stupid.

 

I've noticed that a lot of people up here in our high spot are a bit edgy.

I am too. We have good reason to be angry, but the proper target of our

anger is unclear. This creates some frustration. So i very much agree with

what Ian has said here. That said, i must register my disagreement with

what Penny said.

 

Islam is much more than a gritty desert religion. I have read several

sections of the Koran. It is a very challenging scripture. All of us

should read it, slowly and deliberately. The Koran imparts very specific

rights to women, Christians, and Jews. Once you read certain parts, you

will understand that Osama bin Laden and his followers are systematically

violating specific commandments. For example, suicide is prohibited. So is

killing one's brothers. So is harrassment of Jews and Christians. It is

clear that Christianity is regarded as a great heresy, but it is also clear

that, since Christians do live by " The Book " , they are to be respected.

Judaism is specifically regarded as the foundation of Islam within the

context of the Koran. Many Muslims would thus be correct in believing that

Jews hold a special place in this world, and are also to be respected. This

attitude was actually in effect throughout large periods of history,

particularly during the long Islamic occupation of Spain. Once the Muslims

left that country in 1492, tolerance for Jews ceased, much to the discredit

of Christianity.

 

What we are dealing with here, in this escalation of the terrorist war, are

political considerations of revenge and ongoing hatred. These are not

considerations that Christians should respect. It is clear from the context

of the Bible that we should not lower ourselves to the standards of this

world, because we are given a higher spiritual standard.

 

At 01:15 PM 9/13/01 -0600, you wrote:

>Dear Robert,

>

>No doubt you have seen my public response to Penny's post reitterating

>what you have said.

>

>Furthermore, I have sent her a private communication giving her a chance

>to rectify the matter. Penny being a moderator, a simple " banning " will

>not suffice in this scenario. She needs to take full responsibility for

>her actions and correct them.

>

>As an aside, a person will make mistakes in the presence of suppression

>and tremendous upset. This I think is the case here, but we shall see

>how it all works out.

>

>I can guarantee you, religious intolerance will NOT be allowed on our

>list.

>

>Love,

>

>Doc

>

>PS. I have temporarily removed Penny as a Moderator of this list and am

>moderating her posts until this is resolved.

>

>Ian " Doc " Shillington N.D.

>505-772-5889

-- Michael Riversong **

Professional Harpist, Educator, and Writer **

RivEdu ** Phone: (307)635-0900 FAX (413)691-0399

http://home.earthlink.net/~mriversong

[Guest guest]

Dear Denise & Jean & Coates,

 

Her "factually explaining" is all generality and when statements such as, "The whole (my emphasis) Arab culture is one where father will slay son, brother will attack brother and women are regarded as little more than dogs." then I have to take umbrage at the all encompassing generality of her post. This kind of generality breeds bigotry and upset.

 

When she says, "Because the Koran makes it quite clear that those who die in a war against the Infidels will get to their Paradise." and, "So, what do the common folk want? A life in Paradise. And, how can they achieve this great and illustrious (Sarcasm) next life? (remember - the rulers are keeping them poor and illiterate) - By a HOLY WAR.", and "And, now, by a quirk of fate, these fanatical races (my emphasis) have the Oil that is making them one of the richest nations in the world.", and "They WANT to die.", - I have to ask, who in hell is "they"???

 

The enemy here is NOT ISLAM OR THE SEMITIC (ARABIC) RACE!

 

THE EMEMY ARE A MINORITY OF TERRORISTS WHO ARE HIDING BEHIND A RELIGIOUS MASK, NOT AN ENTIRE FAITH AND/OR RACE OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE!

 

We should take a lesson from our President and a politically combined house who have correctly identified the enemy as terrorists and terrorism. The above denigration of the Moslem faith gives rise to the promotion of overt acts against these people whether or not this was Penny's intention or not. Its insidiousness makes less of them so as to lessen the overt acts against them.

 

I have read the Koran and remember no such promotion of a Holy War. It is not the "common folk" who want a "Holy War and a life in Paradise", it is the terrorists and certain terrorist sects hiding behind a bonafied and world wide religion.

 

Stating that all Arabs and/or Muslims "They WANT to die" would be ludicrous if it wasn't so subversive. This generality is the worst of all as even though it may describe the terrorists themselves, it certainly does not describe the majority of the Islamic peoples but gives them the same label. This has the makings of an insidious HATE campaign.

 

In my youth (in the late 60's), through my own foolishness (and highly adventurous spirit) I found myself stranded in Tunisia (Northern Africa) caught between a war in Algeria on one side, and a war in Israel on the other without a single red cent in my pocket. Not only was I flat broke, but I hadn't eaten in three days and had dysentry to top it off. I was in a bad way. A very poor (the combined gross income was $60 a year) Arab / Bedouin Moslem family took me in and cared for me with care, shelter and food for a whole week. They asked for no recompense as I was their guest. Even today, I remeber the young son's name (Yaya Babbaka) who found and befriended me. In the evening, when the Muezzin was chanting from his tower and the whole family were kneeling on their prayer mats facing Mecca, there was no recrimination or prejudice directed at me for sitting quietly in my chair engrossed in my own thoughts. The Canadian Consulate finally came through and managed to get me out of the country and also put a few dollars in my pocket, and as I said my good-byes to Yaya and his family, they would accept no money but finally allowed me to give the old man (the father) a spare pair of shoes I'd been carrying as a "thank you" gift. I will never forget their generosity, caring and love for a complete and foreign stranger.

 

These are true facts and not generalities.

 

Those of you who have been on the list for a while know me, and realize that I am not some 'bleeding heart' communist who believes in total permissiveness. I am not a pacifist. I personally feel that bin Laden should be tried for his crimes, publicly stood up against a wall in front of a firing squad and shot (with complete CNN coverage). The outrage I feel towards these terrorists is tremendous, but I will not condemn an entire race, or an entire religion for the heinous evil acts of a few demented terrorists and terrorist sects.

 

Nor will I allow it on this list.

 

Love,

 

Doc

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.505-772-5889Dr.IanShillington

 

From Penny's last name, I figured she was of Semitic descent or married to someone of that background. I understood her to be factually explaining a culture. Cultures are different even within this country. I moved from one part of the country to another and I've experienced bigotry and hatred. Those are facts. If I stated the who, what, where, and when, it would not make me filled with hate or in "their" camp. Consequently, I am puzzled by the attack on Penny.

Denise

[Guest guest]

FIRST - In defense of Penny, did any one stop to think that maybe Penny knows someone in the WTC or that she has known terrorism from some other facet..... I realize that this does not make right the feeling of ALL are evil..... Prejudice is never good. But it exists to one extent or another in all of us over something... Human nature....we strive to be better. God says "Vengence is MINE" Does this means we do nothing..... The bible talks about giving us power to win over evil..... I think it is healthy to voice your opinions, frustrations, hopes, fears, etc. I do not think Penny meant to hurt anyone. And as you watch the news seeing all the palentinians, etc, dancing in the street, how does that make you feel??? Do you see americans danncing in the streets, do you see "gangs" dancing in the streets.....Do we see Christians, jews, dancing..... I think Penny as well as all of us know NOT all Arabs or Muslins are bad..... Give her some slack, she is only human, as we all. And maybe all this has just taken its toll on her as it has on many Americans. And she just had to vent it.

This is just my opinion after reading everyones messages.

And yes, I still love all of you....

SuziTerrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?

Donate cash, emergency relief information in

News.

[Guest guest]

Are you trying to pick an argument with me Valerie???

 

C'mon, the latest psych disease that they just put in the books is "Fear of Garlic"

 

You must have missed all the posts a few months ago on Psychiatry to come out with something like that.

 

Gimme a break, I don't have time for it.

 

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.505-772-5889Dr.IanShillington

 

-

rainbow_33434

herbal remedies

Thursday, September 13, 2001 8:45 PM

[herbal remedies] Re: Arab v. Westerner

> Just found out that Osama bin Laden's right hand man is a Psychiatrist.> > It figures!And while I'm at it, I don't happen to have a love for Psychiatrists myself--I feel they have frightening power over vulnerable people and are very free with scary drugs--but on the other hand, this is rather sweeping as well. Let's face it, if we think ALL Psychiatrists are bad, don't you think that's sort of prejudiced as well? Why should that be okay? There could even be a Psychiatrist or two hiding out there out of curiosity (I grant you, not very likely), who would be very offended by these remarks as well!ValerieFederal Law requires that we warn you of the following: 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire. 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural remedy. 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and toprescribe for your own health. We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long as they behave themselves. Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any person following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk. It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from list members, you are agreeing to be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and members free of any liability. Dr. Ian ShillingtonDoctor of NaturopathyDr.IanShillington

[Guest guest]

--- Michael Riversong <rivedu wrote:

> The original post from Penny was puzzling to me, and

> seemed a bit out of

> character. Therefore, i would agree with what Ian

> has said here. I do the

> same sort of thing sometimes -- demonstrating

> misemotion during tough times.

> In fact i was guilty of that today, in thoroughly

> blasting a certain

> lawyer's secretary -- something i would not

> ordinarily do under the

> circumstances. Fortunately i got ahold of myself

> and simply left the office

> before doing anything more stupid.

>

> I've noticed that a lot of people up here in our

> high spot are a bit edgy.

> I am too. We have good reason to be angry, but the

> proper target of our

> anger is unclear. This creates some frustration.

> So i very much agree with

> what Ian has said here. That said, i must register

> my disagreement with

> what Penny said.

>

> Islam is much more than a gritty desert religion. I

> have read several

> sections of the Koran. It is a very challenging

> scripture. All of us

> should read it, slowly and deliberately. The Koran

> imparts very specific

> rights to women, Christians, and Jews. Once you

> read certain parts, you

> will understand that Osama bin Laden and his

> followers are systematically

> violating specific commandments. For example,

> suicide is prohibited. So is

> killing one's brothers. So is harrassment of Jews

> and Christians. It is

> clear that Christianity is regarded as a great

> heresy, but it is also clear

> that, since Christians do live by " The Book " , they

> are to be respected.

> Judaism is specifically regarded as the foundation

> of Islam within the

> context of the Koran. Many Muslims would thus be

> correct in believing that

> Jews hold a special place in this world, and are

> also to be respected. This

> attitude was actually in effect throughout large

> periods of history,

> particularly during the long Islamic occupation of

> Spain. Once the Muslims

> left that country in 1492, tolerance for Jews

> ceased, much to the discredit

> of Christianity.

>

> What we are dealing with here, in this escalation of

> the terrorist war, are

> political considerations of revenge and ongoing

> hatred. These are not

> considerations that Christians should respect. It

> is clear from the context

> of the Bible that we should not lower ourselves to

> the standards of this

> world, because we are given a higher spiritual

> standard.

>

> At 01:15 PM 9/13/01 -0600, you wrote:

> >Dear Robert,

> >

> >No doubt you have seen my public response to

> Penny's post reitterating

> >what you have said.

> >

> >Furthermore, I have sent her a private

> communication giving her a chance

> >to rectify the matter. Penny being a moderator, a

> simple " banning " will

> >not suffice in this scenario. She needs to take

> full responsibility for

> >her actions and correct them.

> >

> >As an aside, a person will make mistakes in the

> presence of suppression

> >and tremendous upset. This I think is the case

> here, but we shall see

> >how it all works out.

> >

> >I can guarantee you, religious intolerance will NOT

> be allowed on our

> >list.

> >

> >Love,

> >

> >Doc

> >

> >PS. I have temporarily removed Penny as a

> Moderator of this list and am

> >moderating her posts until this is resolved.

> >

> >Ian " Doc " Shillington N.D.

> >505-772-5889

> -- Michael Riversong **

> Professional Harpist, Educator, and Writer **

> RivEdu ** Phone: (307)635-0900 FAX

> (413)691-0399

> http://home.earthlink.net/~mriversong

>

>

 

 

=====

May the long time sun shine upon you, all love suround you, and the pure light

within you guide your way on.

Traditional Blessing

 

 

Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?

Donate cash, emergency relief information

http://dailynews./fc/US/Emergency_Information/

[Guest guest]

There was a story last week on Alternet.com that said (loosely) that now the

cold war is over, and we are somewhat successfully gaining allies from other

pertinent countries, how are we going to justify the large budget that the

government wants to send to the Pentagon(?).

 

That said (feeding off the thought of justifying an American propoganda being

behind this), I extremely doubt that America would be THAT cold hearted, and

stupid to spend all of this money, time, and lives just to fight a misguided

heathen, and his band of superblind followers! This is not a war against a super

power, nor a war against ALL of islam, it is (at best) a search for approval to

take out a thorn in all of the Western worlds side!

 

So I know we are fed propoganda and BS (perhaps all of the arreat that were made

to look like our security can make up for it's tremendous lapse that led to this

event - how do we know that all of these people are affiliated with the

incident, or even being detained??), and I could complain about it's easier to

come to America and start a business, than it is to be born here and do the

same, but this is still one of the best places to live, and there is no

acceptance for cowards like Bin Laden!

 

Steve

-----------------------------

Hi,

This is a pretty emotional time for all and I think

its great we all get to really examine our own

beliefs, prejudices, hatreds, etc.

The spanner I would like to throw into the discussion

is, who will benefit greatly from a war?

The American military.

Maybe I have been watching too many X-Files, but from

over here in Australia, America is not the innocent

country it likes to believe it is, and it is

surprising sometimes to hear American propaganda- you guys do get fed a lot of

it. There seems to be a

widespread belief - only amongst Americans- that

America is God's country, the best country in the

world, the world's policeman etc.(I expect some feisty

replies to that comment! I dont mean it to be racist

against Americans- we are all people. We all get fed

propaganda, but it just seems Americans get fed a hell

of a lot about how terrific they are- in order to turn

people's attention away from the evil things they have

done to other nations, usually self righteously).

I simply dont know the truth of the situation. It

APPEARS to be terrorists from an Arab nation. But the

whole thing could be a huge, well designed set up for

America to go to war to justify its huge military . I

may be way off- its just that I wouldnt be surprised.

I am just suspicious of any situation that ends up in

the president of America being given full personal

power to exact military revenge against a nebulous

enemy! American s 'trust' their president far too

much!

Anyway, as I say, I dont know, and I keep an open mind

about it all. It is always sad when innocent people

die, for the agendas of people they have never met.

love

peela

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone,

 

PLEASE let us try and remember that this Blank vs Blank mentality IS part of the basic problem, the dis-ease affecting humanity.Please let us be mindful of everything said at this terrible time. We are healers. I would love to read some posts on helping us all cope emotionally and spiritually with this, rather than get involved in who is to blame, who we think the bad guys are, etc. Such talk throws salt on already ragged emotions. NC

[Guest guest]

Now we have the Aussies feuding!

 

I think hostilities are getting little misdirected!

 

Steve

-----------------------------

Peela,

 

Kept your ignorant two cents out of our business.

 

Michael

--- SPARERIBAZ <spareribaz wrote:

> Peela,

>

> I have always liked you but I think you should know

> that I feel this was in

> poor taste at this time and that I think you know

> very little about the

> America your speaking of.

>

> I will leave it at that.

>

> God Bless Us All,

> Jamie

> -

> " Peela " <peelasacha

> <herbal remedies >

> Friday, September 14, 2001 2:23 AM

> Re: [herbal remedies] Arab v. Westerner

>

>

> > Hi,

> > This is a pretty emotional time for all and I

> think

> > its great we all get to really examine our own

> > beliefs, prejudices, hatreds, etc.

> > The spanner I would like to throw into the

> discussion

> > is, who will benefit greatly from a war?

> > The American military.

> > Maybe I have been watching too many X-Files, but

> from

> > over here in Australia, America is not the

> innocent

> > country it likes to believe it is, and it is

> > surprising sometimes to hear American propaganda-

> you

> > guys do get fed a lot of it. There seems to be a

> > widespread belief - only amongst Americans- that

> > America is God's country, the best country in the

> > world, the world's policeman etc.(I expect some

> feisty

> > replies to that comment! I dont mean it to be

> racist

> > against Americans- we are all people. We all get

> fed

> > propaganda, but it just seems Americans get fed a

> hell

> > of a lot about how terrific they are- in order to

> turn

> > people's attention away from the evil things they

> have

> > done to other nations, usually self righteously).

> > I simply dont know the truth of the situation. It

> > APPEARS to be terrorists from an Arab nation. But

> the

> > whole thing could be a huge, well designed set up

> for

> > America to go to war to justify its huge military

> . I

> > may be way off- its just that I wouldnt be

> surprised.

> > I am just suspicious of any situation that ends up

> in

> > the president of America being given full personal

> > power to exact military revenge against a nebulous

> > enemy! American s 'trust' their president far too

> > much!

> > Anyway, as I say, I dont know, and I keep an open

> mind

> > about it all. It is always sad when innocent

> people

> > die, for the agendas of people they have never

> met.

> > love

> > peela

> >

> >

> >

> > =====

> > May the long time sun shine upon you, all love

> suround you, and the pure

> light within you guide your way on.

> > Traditional Blessing

> >

> >

> > Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?

> > Donate cash, emergency relief information

> >

>

http://dailynews./fc/US/Emergency_Information/

> >

> >

> > Federal Law requires that we warn you of the

> following:

> > 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.

> > 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician

> before using any natural

> remedy.

> > 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be

> your own physician and

> to

> > prescribe for your own health.

> > We are not medical doctors although MDs are

> welcome to post here as long

> as

> > they behave themselves.

> > Any opinions put forth by the list members are

> exactly that, and any

> person

> > following the advice of anyone posting here does

> so at their own risk.

> > It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting

> advice or products from

> list members, you are agreeing to

> > be fully responsible for your own health, and hold

> the List Owner and

> mem

[Guest guest]

Peela,

 

I have always liked you but I think you should know that I feel this was in

poor taste at this time and that I think you know very little about the

America your speaking of.

 

I will leave it at that.

 

God Bless Us All,

Jamie

-

" Peela " <peelasacha

<herbal remedies >

Friday, September 14, 2001 2:23 AM

Re: [herbal remedies] Arab v. Westerner

 

 

> Hi,

> This is a pretty emotional time for all and I think

> its great we all get to really examine our own

> beliefs, prejudices, hatreds, etc.

> The spanner I would like to throw into the discussion

> is, who will benefit greatly from a war?

> The American military.

> Maybe I have been watching too many X-Files, but from

> over here in Australia, America is not the innocent

> country it likes to believe it is, and it is

> surprising sometimes to hear American propaganda- you

> guys do get fed a lot of it. There seems to be a

> widespread belief - only amongst Americans- that

> America is God's country, the best country in the

> world, the world's policeman etc.(I expect some feisty

> replies to that comment! I dont mean it to be racist

> against Americans- we are all people. We all get fed

> propaganda, but it just seems Americans get fed a hell

> of a lot about how terrific they are- in order to turn

> people's attention away from the evil things they have

> done to other nations, usually self righteously).

> I simply dont know the truth of the situation. It

> APPEARS to be terrorists from an Arab nation. But the

> whole thing could be a huge, well designed set up for

> America to go to war to justify its huge military . I

> may be way off- its just that I wouldnt be surprised.

> I am just suspicious of any situation that ends up in

> the president of America being given full personal

> power to exact military revenge against a nebulous

> enemy! American s 'trust' their president far too

> much!

> Anyway, as I say, I dont know, and I keep an open mind

> about it all. It is always sad when innocent people

> die, for the agendas of people they have never met.

> love

> peela

>

>

>

> =====

> May the long time sun shine upon you, all love suround you, and the pure

light within you guide your way on.

> Traditional Blessing

>

>

> Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?

> Donate cash, emergency relief information

> http://dailynews./fc/US/Emergency_Information/

>

>

> Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following:

> 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.

> 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural

remedy.

> 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and

to

> prescribe for your own health.

> We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long

as

> they behave themselves.

> Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any

person

> following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk.

> It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from

list members, you are agreeing to

> be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and

members free of any liability.

>

> Dr. Ian Shillington

> Doctor of Naturopathy

> Dr.IanShillington

>

>

[Guest guest]

A person does not choose to be an Arab. Most Muslims were born into their

faith, and didn't particularly choose it either. But being a psychiatrist

is a very deliberate choice, which requires putting 12 years of one's life

into intense, agonizing study. When you look at it, the original idea

behind psychiatry is excellent. Let's have some professionals out there who

know all about conventional medicine, with an overlay of specialized

knowledge of mental conditions. That way, these professionals can do

thorough physical exams, find definite causes for mental problems, and use

the full arsenal of medical weaponry against these situations.

Unfortunately, in practice this has rarely worked. Very few psychiatrists

are in the habit of giving physical exams. Instead, they have followed a

large body of false data about the mind, and have fallen into working almost

exclusively with mythical " brain chemistry " ideas which nobody can

understand or validate. In reading psychiatric research papers, i have been

apalled at the consistent use of terminology which is found in no dictionary

and is never explained. It seems that these papers are put out to

deliberately confuse people.

 

There are a few good psychiatrists out there who are exposing the rampant

fraud and torture perpetrated by too many members of their profession. I

admire these people, and will refer friends to their work. But

unfortunately these comprise a very small minority among psychiatrists.

 

When dealing with Muslims, i recommend reading the Koran. When dealing with

psychiatry, i recommend reading many well-researched works which expose the

problems. If you want to read original psychiatric papers, good luck,

because you will find only confusion, deception, and outright fraud. Many

rational people find themselves very upset after reading such material. So

railing against psychiatrists is not the same as ethnic bashing.

 

At 02:45 AM 9/14/01 -0000, you wrote:

>> Just found out that Osama bin Laden's right hand man is a

>Psychiatrist.

>>

>> It figures!

>

>And while I'm at it, I don't happen to have a love for Psychiatrists

>myself--I feel they have frightening power over vulnerable people and

>are very free with scary drugs--but on the other hand, this is rather

>sweeping as well. Let's face it, if we think ALL Psychiatrists are

>bad, don't you think that's sort of prejudiced as well? Why should

>that be okay? There could even be a Psychiatrist or two hiding out

>there out of curiosity (I grant you, not very likely), who would be

>very offended by these remarks as well!

>

>Valerie

>

>

-- Michael Riversong **

Professional Harpist, Educator, and Writer **

RivEdu ** Phone: (307)635-0900 FAX (413)691-0399

http://home.earthlink.net/~mriversong

[Guest guest]

Peela,

You have to understand, first how much the US has written off in debts from other countries we have helped, and those countries in turn have "screwed us". Second, WE the people elected the President, we put our trust in him to make these kind of decisions, and we WOULD NOT kill thousands of our OWN people just to make money going to war. I think this comment was way off base. ( I still like you though)

Suzi

> APPEARS to be terrorists from an Arab nation. But the> whole thing could be a huge, well designed set up for> America to go to war to justify its huge military . I> may be way off- its just that I wouldnt be surprised.> I am just suspicious of any situation that ends up in> the president of America being given full personal> power to exact military revenge against a nebulous> enemy! American s 'trust' their president far too> much!Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?

Donate cash, emergency relief information in

News.

[Guest guest]

Peela;

I'm an american and I, for one, don't put my complete trust in our president. It's not that I DON'T trust our president, so don't get me wrong, but he's only human, just like the rest of us. He's a father, a husband, and someone's son. He's going to scew up sometimes, just like you and I. No matter who our President is at the moment, he's not going to be perfect, as none of us are.

My trust is in my God, who IS perfect, and although our president has the authority to make decisions, it is our God who is ultimately in control. Whatever decisions our President makes, whether right or wrong, good or bad, it's in God's hands, and the greatest thing any of us can do is pray, light candles, or whatever it is the individual person needs to do in their own faith.

And yes, I do believe that America is God's country.....but I also beleive that no matter where you live, it's ALL God's country.

I also believe that this is the best country in the world, but it's also the only country I've ever known. I grew up here. I know we have our faults, I know that sometimes we've been lied to, I know that sometimes our leaders turn out to be corrupt.

I don't automatically believe the propaganda we're fed, whether that be about our own country or someone else's. I'm smarter than that.

But I do choose to love my country. I'm sure you probably feel the same way about where you live, and you have that right.

No matter what "God" we believe in, or what country we're from, we're all cut from the same cloth. We all have our faults, we all have our goodnesses about us.

Please don't condemn us for taking pride in what and who we are, or where we're from. As with any other country, we have that right. And (not unlike you, I'm sure), we're doing the best we can with the information we have available to us.

Who would benefit from a war, you asked? God only knows. It's a sad situation no matter how you slice it, and no matter who's side you're on. But it's also in God's hands, where I also choose to put my faith.

God Bless America!

(and God Bless You!)

AuntyB

 

 

you wrote:

> Hi,> This is a pretty emotional time for all and I think> its great we all get to really examine our own> beliefs, prejudices, hatreds, etc.> The spanner I would like to throw into the discussion> is, who will benefit greatly from a war?> The American military.> Maybe I have been watching too many X-Files, but from> over here in Australia, America is not the innocent> country it likes to believe it is, and it is> surprising sometimes to hear American propaganda- you> guys do get fed a lot of it. There seems to be a> widespread belief - only amongst Americans- that> America is God's country, the best country in the> world, the world's policeman etc.(I expect some feisty> replies to that comment! I dont mean it to be racist> against Americans- we are all people. We all get fed> propaganda, but it just seems Americans get fed a hell> of a lot about how terrific they are- in order to turn> people's attention away from the evil things they have> done to other nations, usually self righteously).> I simply dont know the truth of the situation. It> APPEARS to be terrorists from an Arab nation. But the> whole thing could be a huge, well designed set up for> America to go to war to justify its huge military . I> may be way off- its just that I wouldnt be surprised.> I am just suspicious of any situation that ends up in> the president of America being given full personal> power to exact military revenge against a nebulous> enemy! American s 'trust' their president far too> much!> Anyway, as I say, I dont know, and I keep an open mind> about it all. It is always sad when innocent people> die, for the agendas of people they have never met.> love> peela

[Guest guest]

You're right, noone has " proven' that it was the accused, but he has been proven

in enough past incidences that it would not surprise anyone; plus he has yet to

pay for those atrocities!

 

Steve

-----------------------------

 

There is another country that would benefit greatly

from us thinking the Arabs did it though no one is

saying that and I'm sure not going to. I cannot

understand why everyone is so sure they know it was

the Arabs anyway, we have no idea yet! Where is

everyone getting that idea from? - the Koran in the

truck? That was no accident, it was put there, but it

sure doesn't mean those people are the culprits. It's

surprising to me that everyone thinks they know

already.

 

Deb

 

 

--- Steve <bigbird3969 wrote:

> There was a story last week on Alternet.com that

> said (loosely) that now the cold war is over, and we

> are somewhat successfully gaining allies from other

> pertinent countries, how are we going to justify the

> large budget that the government wants to send to

> the Pentagon(?).

>

> That said (feeding off the thought of justifying an

> American propoganda being behind this), I extremely

> doubt that America would be THAT cold hearted, and

> stupid to spend all of this money, time, and lives

> just to fight a misguided heathen, and his band of

> superblind followers! This is not a war against a

> super power, nor a war against ALL of islam, it is

> (at best) a search for approval to take out a thorn

> in all of the Western worlds side!

>

> So I know we are fed propoganda and BS (perhaps all

> of the arreat that were made to look like our> security can make up for it's

tremendous lapse that

> led to this event - how do we know that all of these

> people are affiliated with the incident, or even

> being detained??), and I could complain about it's

> easier to come to America and start a business, than

> it is to be born here and do the same, but this is

> still one of the best places to live, and there is

> no acceptance for cowards like Bin Laden!

>

> Steve

>

-----------------------------

[Guest guest]

DITTO!!

 

oconnor michael <michael93003herbal remedies <herbal remedies >Friday, September 14, 2001 11:55 AMRe: [herbal remedies] Arab v. WesternerPeela,Kept your ignorant two cents out of our business.Michael--- SPARERIBAZ <spareribaz wrote:> Peela,> > I have always liked you but I think you should know> that I feel this was in> poor taste at this time and that I think you know> very little about the> America your speaking of.> > I will leave it at that.> > God Bless Us All,> Jamie> -> " Peela " <peelasacha> <herbal remedies >> Friday, September 14, 2001 2:23 AM> Re: [herbal remedies] Arab v. Westerner> > > > Hi,> > This is a pretty emotional time for all and I> think> > its great we all get to really examine our own> > beliefs, prejudices, hatreds, etc.> > The spanner I would like to throw into the> discussion> > is, who will benefit greatly from a war?> > The American military.> > Maybe I have been watching too many X-Files, but> from> > over here in Australia, America is not the> innocent> > country it likes to believe it is, and it is> > surprising sometimes to hear American propaganda-> you> > guys do get fed a lot of it. There seems to be a> > widespread belief - only amongst Americans- that> > America is God's country, the best country in the> > world, the world's policeman etc.(I expect some> feisty> > replies to that comment! I dont mean it to be> racist> > against Americans- we are all people. We all get> fed> > propaganda, but it just seems Americans get fed a> hell> > of a lot about how terrific they are- in order to> turn> > people's attention away from the evil things they> have> > done to other nations, usually self righteously).> > I simply dont know the truth of the situation. It> > APPEARS to be terrorists from an Arab nation. But> the> > whole thing could be a huge, well designed set up> for> > America to go to war to justify its huge military> . I> > may be way off- its just that I wouldnt be> surprised.> > I am just suspicious of any situation that ends up> in> > the president of America being given full personal> > power to exact military revenge against a nebulous> > enemy! American s 'trust' their president far too> > much!> > Anyway, as I say, I dont know, and I keep an open> mind> > about it all. It is always sad when innocent> people> > die, for the agendas of people they have never> met.> > love> > peela> >> >> >> > =====> > May the long time sun shine upon you, all love> suround you, and the pure> light within you guide your way on.> > Traditional Blessing> >> > > > Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?> > Donate cash, emergency relief information> >>http://dailynews./fc/US/Emergency_Information/> >> >> > Federal Law requires that we warn you of the> following:> > 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.> > 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician> before using any natural> remedy.> > 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be> your own physician and> to> > prescribe for your own health.> > We are not medical doctors although MDs are> welcome to post here as long> as> > they behave themselves.> > Any opinions put forth by the list members are> exactly that, and any> person> > following the advice of anyone posting here does> so at their own risk.> > It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting> advice or products from> list members, you are agreeing to> > be fully responsible for your own health, and hold> the List Owner and> members free of any liability.> >> > Dr. Ian Shillington> > Doctor of Naturopathy> > Dr.IanShillington >> >

[Guest guest]

It is valuable for me to know the viewpoints of people in other countries,

particularly Australia which is so far from everything else. A country like

that is a good observation point. So my thanks go to Peela for her honest

words.

 

Actually in Wyoming we are in a similar situation, since most of us are

somewhat beyond the fringes of normal American life. We certainly can't

engage in much of American's most favorite pastime, which is shopping!

 

At 05:41 AM 9/14/01 -0700, you wrote:

>Peela,

>

>I have always liked you but I think you should know that I feel this was in

>poor taste at this time and that I think you know very little about the

>America your speaking of.

>

>I will leave it at that.

>

>God Bless Us All,

>Jamie

>-

> " Peela " <peelasacha

><herbal remedies >

>Friday, September 14, 2001 2:23 AM

>Re: [herbal remedies] Arab v. Westerner

>

>

>> Hi,

>> This is a pretty emotional time for all and I think

>> its great we all get to really examine our own

>> beliefs, prejudices, hatreds, etc.

>> The spanner I would like to throw into the discussion

>> is, who will benefit greatly from a war?

>> The American military.

>> Maybe I have been watching too many X-Files, but from

>> over here in Australia, America is not the innocent

>> country it likes to believe it is, and it is

>> surprising sometimes to hear American propaganda- you

>> guys do get fed a lot of it. There seems to be a

>> widespread belief - only amongst Americans- that

>> America is God's country, the best country in the

>> world, the world's policeman etc.(I expect some feisty

>> replies to that comment! I dont mean it to be racist

>> against Americans- we are all people. We all get fed

>> propaganda, but it just seems Americans get fed a hell

>> of a lot about how terrific they are- in order to turn

>> people's attention away from the evil things they have

>> done to other nations, usually self righteously).

>> I simply dont know the truth of the situation. It

>> APPEARS to be terrorists from an Arab nation. But the

>> whole thing could be a huge, well designed set up for

>> America to go to war to justify its huge military . I

>> may be way off- its just that I wouldnt be surprised.

>> I am just suspicious of any situation that ends up in

>> the president of America being given full personal

>> power to exact military revenge against a nebulous

>> enemy! American s 'trust' their president far too

>> much!

>> Anyway, as I say, I dont know, and I keep an open mind

>> about it all. It is always sad when innocent people

>> die, for the agendas of people they have never met.

>> love

>> peela

>>

>>

>>

>> =====

>> May the long time sun shine upon you, all love suround you, and the pure

>light within you guide your way on.

>> Traditional Blessing

>>

>>

>> Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?

>> Donate cash, emergency relief information

>> http://dailynews./fc/US/Emergency_Information/

>>

>>

>> Federal Law requires that we warn you of the following:

>> 1. Natural methods can sometimes backfire.

>> 2. If you are pregnant, consult your physician before using any natural

>remedy.

>> 3. The Constitution guarantees you the right to be your own physician and

>to

>> prescribe for your own health.

>> We are not medical doctors although MDs are welcome to post here as long

>as

>> they behave themselves.

>> Any opinions put forth by the list members are exactly that, and any

>person

>> following the advice of anyone posting here does so at their own risk.

>> It is up to you to educate yourself. By accepting advice or products from

>list members, you are agreeing to

>> be fully responsible for your own health, and hold the List Owner and

>members free of any liability.

>>

>> Dr. Ian Shillington

>> Doctor of Naturopathy

>> Dr.IanShillington

>>

>>

[Guest guest]

There is another country that would benefit greatly

from us thinking the Arabs did it though no one is

saying that and I'm sure not going to. I cannot

understand why everyone is so sure they know it was

the Arabs anyway, we have no idea yet! Where is

everyone getting that idea from? - the Koran in the

truck? That was no accident, it was put there, but it

sure doesn't mean those people are the culprits. It's

surprising to me that everyone thinks they know

already.

 

Deb

 

 

--- Steve <bigbird3969 wrote:

> There was a story last week on Alternet.com that

> said (loosely) that now the cold war is over, and we

> are somewhat successfully gaining allies from other

> pertinent countries, how are we going to justify the

> large budget that the government wants to send to

> the Pentagon(?).

>

> That said (feeding off the thought of justifying an

> American propoganda being behind this), I extremely

> doubt that America would be THAT cold hearted, and

> stupid to spend all of this money, time, and lives

> just to fight a misguided heathen, and his band of

> superblind followers! This is not a war against a

> super power, nor a war against ALL of islam, it is

> (at best) a search for approval to take out a thorn

> in all of the Western worlds side!

>

> So I know we are fed propoganda and BS (perhaps all

> of the arreat that were made to look like our

> security can make up for it's tremendous lapse that

> led to this event - how do we know that all of these

> people are affiliated with the incident, or even

> being detained??), and I could complain about it's

> easier to come to America and start a business, than

> it is to be born here and do the same, but this is

> still one of the best places to live, and there is

> no acceptance for cowards like Bin Laden!

>

> Steve

>

-----------------------------

> Hi,

> This is a pretty emotional time for all and I think

> its great we all get to really examine our own

> beliefs, prejudices, hatreds, etc.

> The spanner I would like to throw into the

> discussion

> is, who will benefit greatly from a war?

> The American military.

> Maybe I have been watching too many X-Files, but

> from

> over here in Australia, America is not the innocent

> country it likes to believe it is, and it is

> surprising sometimes to hear American propaganda-

> you guys do get fed a lot of it. There seems to be a

> widespread belief - only amongst Americans- that

> America is God's country, the best country in the

> world, the world's policeman etc.(I expect some

> feisty

> replies to that comment! I dont mean it to be racist

> against Americans- we are all people. We all get fed

> propaganda, but it just seems Americans get fed a

> hell

> of a lot about how terrific they are- in order to

> turn

> people's attention away from the evil things they

> have

> done to other nations, usually self righteously).

> I simply dont know the truth of the situation. It

> APPEARS to be terrorists from an Arab nation. But

> the

> whole thing could be a huge, well designed set up

> for

> America to go to war to justify its huge military .

> I

> may be way off- its just that I wouldnt be

> surprised.

> I am just suspicious of any situation that ends up

> in

> the president of America being given full personal

> power to exact military revenge against a nebulous

> enemy! American s 'trust' their president far too

> much!

> Anyway, as I say, I dont know, and I keep an open

> mind

> about it all. It is always sad when innocent people

> die, for the agendas of people they have never met.

> love

> peela

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

 

 

Terrorist Attacks on U.S. - How can you help?

Donate cash, emergency relief information

http://dailynews./fc/US/Emergency_Information/

[Guest guest]

I wholeheartedly agree. We need to let our President and our

government decide what to do. God provided us with government to

protect us and I believe that is where we should leave it instead of

getting into the blank vs. blank mentality.

 

For anyone who is interested in looking at these for comfort, I was

blessed Tuesday night with scripture from God's word that were

comforting and soothing. The passages are Psalms 61:1-4 and Psalms

46:1-11. They were of a great comfort to me!

 

I hope I haven't overstepped my bounds by posting these passages--

they were such a help to me that I wanted to pass them on.

 

Becky

 

herbal remedies, Nathair9@a... wrote:

> Hi everyone,

>

> PLEASE let us try and remember that this Blank vs Blank mentality

IS part of

> the basic problem, the dis-ease affecting humanity.Please let us be

mindful

> of everything said at this terrible time. We are healers. I would

love to

> read some posts on helping us all cope emotionally and spiritually

with this,

> rather than get involved in who is to blame, who we think the bad

guys are,

> etc. Such talk throws salt on already ragged emotions.

> NC

[Guest guest]

Dear Tom,

 

Please watch the generalities. This is what I upbraided Penny for, though hers were more racist and bigotted.

 

I'm trying to give some leaway here so that others can vent their frustrations in a helpful manner.

 

Some of your generalities are coming awfully close to religion and ethnic bashing.

 

Love,

 

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.505-772-5889Dr.IanShillington

 

-

Tom Murray

herbal remedies

Tuesday, September 11, 2001 8:18 PM

RE: [herbal remedies] Arab v. Westerner

 

I don't see a bit of rage as too unhealthy in these circumstances as if the shoe was on the other foot and it was an American Person walking the streets of the Muslim nations then it would result in certain death, if the Americans had brought this devastation upon them, then every person with a western appearance would die from group attacks. As a Nation as a whole they are very Violent in their ways, and as a nation as a whole the US is fairly civilized. Under the happenings of the last few days, to be a Muslim in America may be difficult, but a Muslim will fight for his God first and everything else comes second. Allah does not like America. (not in his own words,only according to some religious leaders that he has spoken to.)

No matter where in the world a Muslim lives,Allah is the strongest force within their lives.whilst this is the case no country can ever trust its Muslim community in time of conflict. I am not saying that every Muslim will become a terrorist but Allah has a strong hold over many and this must be taken seriously.

The occasional person hearing voices in their head is a worry to society, what happens when a whole race of people are hearing the same voice.

This is just my opinion, and no im not willing to die for it. so please if you find great offence to it. Lighten Up, Chill out, The world doesn't have to be Deadly Serious all the time. it can be a fun place to exist in.

 

Tom M

[Guest guest]

Dear Suzi,

 

I personally know Penny (I was instrumental in getting her hooked on herbalism and was the first to treat her husband successfully for Kidney problems) quite well (though not as well as I thought), and believe me, she is quite capable of "defending" herself which so far she has not shown any inclination to do. I have sent her a couple of private notes and so far she has not seen fit to respond. I'd rather that she throw a flaming fit at me (off list by e-mail or over the phone) than having her not respond at all, but this is her choice. Even her silence tells me a lot. I've given her every opportunity to communicate to me privately so that we could talk with no holds barred to iron this out but she has clammed up. She may need to sort some things out before she does get back in comm, and I'm willing to give her the slack to do so. We'll see. Time will tell.

 

Love,

 

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.505-772-5889Dr.IanShillington

 

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Suzanne Nottmeier

herbal remedies

Thursday, September 13, 2001 7:26 PM

Re: [herbal remedies] Arab v. Westerner

 

FIRST - In defense of Penny, did any one stop to think that maybe Penny knows someone in the WTC or that she has known terrorism from some other facet..... I realize that this does not make right the feeling of ALL are evil..... Prejudice is never good. But it exists to one extent or another in all of us over something... Human nature....we strive to be better. God says "Vengence is MINE" Does this means we do nothing..... The bible talks about giving us power to win over evil..... I think it is healthy to voice your opinions, frustrations, hopes, fears, etc. I do not think Penny meant to hurt anyone. And as you watch the news seeing all the palentinians, etc, dancing in the street, how does that make you feel??? Do you see americans danncing in the streets, do you see "gangs" dancing in the streets.....Do we see Christians, jews, dancing..... I think Penny as well as all of us know NOT all Arabs or Muslins are bad..... Give her some slack, she is only human, as we all. And maybe all this has just taken its toll on her as it has on many Americans. And she just had to vent it. This is just my opinion after reading everyones messages. And yes, I still love all of you.... Suzi

[Guest guest]

Dear Peela,

 

From your post, I can honestly tell that you really don't know Americans all that well and that you yourself have bought into some "Black Propaganda" against us Americans (and yes, even though I am a Canadian, I also consider myself an American as well). Americans are the first to admit that we are not perfect (have never claimed to be), and we are just as likely to impeach a President as praise one. If we have any fault which may be commonly agreed upon, it is that we get too complacent and falsely trusting of what happens around us close to home.

 

This concept you have of America being a "War Mongering" nation is just plain false and is Communist propaganda from the 60's and 70's you've bought into. Oh, I admit to not minding our own business at times and to making mistakes in our foreign diplomacy and foreign actions at times, but overall our hearts are in the right place and the average American has a passion for freedom which we think should extend to others as well. We also have the ability and the luxury of "self criticism" which most other peoples do not. The problem with your post is the black propaganda which is false, is also interspersed with criticisms which we are already very well aware of, and is therefore not only redundant, but ill timed considering this is our time of mourning.

 

While we are experiencing rage, anger, antagonism, a tremendous amount of grief, and yes even fear, it would be more appropriate for others who are not American to show at least a little sympathy and empathy rather than forward ememy propaganda which is false and interspersed with criticisms we are only too aware of. We may be somewhat arrogant, but we are not insensitive. We may not be too subtle, but we are at times passionate, compassionate, and generous to a fault. We may not be perfect, but overall I'd say that a majority of us try to look at the greatest good for all concerned.

 

Peela, I think you need to take a walk in our shoes before you feel like getting critical again. Truly, you really don't know us all that well.

 

Love,

 

Doc

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.505-772-5889Dr.IanShillington

 

-

Peela

herbal remedies

Friday, September 14, 2001 3:23 AM

Re: [herbal remedies] Arab v. Westerner

 

Hi,This is a pretty emotional time for all and I think its great we all get to really examine our own beliefs, prejudices, hatreds, etc. The spanner I would like to throw into the discussionis, who will benefit greatly from a war? The American military.

Maybe I have been watching too many X-Files, but from over here in Australia, America is not the innocent country it likes to believe it is, and it is surprising sometimes to hear American propaganda- you guys do get fed a lot of it. There seems to be a widespread belief - only amongst Americans- that America is God's country, the best country in the world, the world's policeman etc.(I expect some feisty replies to that comment! I dont mean it to be racist against Americans- we are all people. We all get fed propaganda, but it just seems Americans get fed a hell of a lot about how terrific they are- in order to turn people's attention away from the evil things they have done to other nations, usually self righteously). I simply dont know the truth of the situation. It APPEARS to be terrorists from an Arab nation. But the whole thing could be a huge, well designed set up for America to go to war to justify its huge military . I may be way off- its just that I wouldnt be surprised.I am just suspicious of any situation that ends up in the president of America being given full personal power to exact military revenge against a nebulous enemy! American s 'trust' their president far too much!

Anyway, as I say, I dont know, and I keep an open mind about it all. It is always sad when innocent people die, for the agendas of people they have never met.lovepeela

[Guest guest]

YUP!!!

 

Ian "Doc" Shillington N.D.505-772-5889Dr.IanShillington

 

-

Steve

herbal remedies

Friday, September 14, 2001 7:33 AM

Re:Re: [herbal remedies] Arab v. Westerner

There was a story last week on Alternet.com that said (loosely) that now the cold war is over, and we are somewhat successfully gaining allies from other pertinent countries, how are we going to justify the large budget that the government wants to send to the Pentagon(?).That said (feeding off the thought of justifying an American propoganda being behind this), I extremely doubt that America would be THAT cold hearted, and stupid to spend all of this money, time, and lives just to fight a misguided heathen, and his band of superblind followers! This is not a war against a super power, nor a war against ALL of islam, it is (at best) a search for approval to take out a thorn in all of the Western worlds side!So I know we are fed propoganda and BS (perhaps all of the arreat that were made to look like our security can make up for it's tremendous lapse that led to this event - how do we know that all of these people are affiliated with the incident, or even being detained??), and I could complain about it's easier to come to America and start a business, than it is to be born here and do the same, but this is still one of the best places to live, and there is no acceptance for cowards like Bin Laden!Steve