discipline and punishment...

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I tried the policy of not spanking, hitting etc my older son. He was a quiet

child to begin with. Later on, I found out he had some neurological problems

which we seem to be lucky enough to have gotten him natural solutions

for...I handled both my kids evaluating if the " bad behavior " had anything

to do with something biological, a need, whatever. Kids sure do seem to go

after things the parents value most.

 

I held with distraction for the first a year and year - to two years. I had

a very " baby proofed house " , as well.

 

Eventually, around ages 4-5, we added in spankings on anything that was

capable of being life threatening (ie running into the street). My boys are

3 years apart in age. I also used imagery. I put a water balloon in a bag in

the place where I didn't want either son to go and then let nature take its

course...(For example, in the street, a car would go by). Then we went out

to the street and examined the bag with the balloon. That balloon would have

been you, if you had been out there, I told my older son. He said. Oooh,

balloon is busted. Yep, I said. I don't want you busted, too. Only cross

with me here, ok? He was a very obedient child with very few examples. Of

course, don't do this everywhere or the child will be terrified of his

shadow. A little bit of fear really works; studies back this up. But too

much fear incapacitates. (Deer frozen in the headlights and all). Studies

back this up, too.

 

When the spanking times came, we would explain, you are not supposed to

" xxx " and your hands, feet whatever broke the rule so your butt is getting

spanked. Tell you hands not to do " xxx " so your but doesn't have to hurt. I

am glad we very rarely spanked him knowing now that he would have not

understood why he was being spanked. When we spanked, he was very clearly

disobeying (his attitude would get mulish hehe) so a spanking was

understandable, was the concensus around here. I simply deplore spankings so

my hubby usually did it but the adage of " wait until your father gets home "

is not a good one. Studies show that immediate " punishment " is more

effective than delayed punishment, no matter the age. So, rather than make

him wait, I would spank him. Of course, (wiping away tears) I would explain

I simply hated spanking him and I wish he had not broken the rule. If the

rule wasn't so important, I wouldn't be spanking him and would he please

follow the important rules so I would not have to ever spank him again

(wiping away more tears).

 

He is the most wonderful child; and absolutely the best rule-follower I have

ever known. Afterwards, of course, I would walk out and then come back a few

minutes later. I would sit on his bed and eventually be holding him and

brushing his hair. We would talk and discuss how we could handle things

better next time.

 

I also held us to the no-spank while angry, no more than two-hits rule. One

was for transgressions that were deliberate... " I am choosing to not obey

this rule I know you want me to do (age 6-7) " .

 

Kids evaluation skills kick in around age 7. Before then they are usually

going after what the person next to them (or parents) find interesting, it

seems.) I have gone back for a degree in psychology because this process

fascinates me so much. There was a guy who used his kids for study and

developed the " levels of learning " kids do. The studies on aggression, too,

are just fascinating. The ones that were the most interesting were the ones

done on prison inmates (where you think they are likely beyond hope).

 

Punishment is a temporary determent but negative reinforcing can permanently

change a viewpoint, the studies say. Like 2-3rd grade kids who were not

allowed to touch some toys (and were punished for it) still walked out

wanting to touch the toys but the kids who were given a tiny punishment had

to change their mind... " Oh, that toy is lousy anyways; who would want to

touch that crummy thing " ...

 

A little punishment can be more powerful in changing a child's viewpoint

than a huge punishment because then the child has permission to keep the

lousy attitude, some of the studies I read said. So, I experimented with

this with my older son. He had not unloaded the dishwasher, one of his

chores during the school year. His dad told him to do it and because it was

after the time it should have been done, my older son had to stop his

activity immediately and go and do this. My older son was furious. My

husband wanted to tear a strip out of him (my older son is now almost 13). I

told my hubby that rather than give him a huge task (which he was going to

do and my son was already steaming over), he was going to be given this

simple little menial task but have to say to himself (out loud), " I will do

the dishwasher before (the time period) it has to be done tomorrow " . I told

my son if he didn't change his attitude and stop the fuming, this itty-bitty

task was coming next. He looked at the task, and his attitude changed

immediately. It was amazing. I don't believe in nagging; I believe in

" little jobs " . Sometimes, I wish my kids would not be quite so ideal so the

house had more of their talented labor (hehe).

 

Having heard my hubby's experiences with " discipline " and much of that could

be construed as abuses, and of course mine where my parents did more

psychology than hitting much of the time, I am more enamored of distractions

and very little spanking. I think the important thing in raising kids is

helping them do things that will bless them and not hurt them (or the people

around them). It's kind of fun raising kids.

 

Linda Lane

 

Message: 16

Mon, 3 Sep 2001 11:06:35 -0700 (PDT)

Michael Riversong <rivedu

Re: discipline

 

With a one year old in the house, we've been discussing this a lot. His

desire to play with something is often directly proportional to its

breakability.

 

We have agreed, and i think this fits with the general sense of the Bible,

that no punishment should ever be administered when a parent is angry. That

alone takes care of most abuse. When looking at that whole thing about a

" rod " , we've determined that this was some kind of shepherd's tool used for

guidance. This means it should not be used to hurt, but to guide. The

biggest hurt comes not from the physical impact, but from the humiliation.

After a while, a child will develop a sense of right and wrong, and know

most of the time what's what.

 

Right now, we just use a huge NO, sometimes backed up by picking him up and

taking him elsewhere, for discipline. This is working pretty well. On a

couple occasions, Rose has done very mild spankings, and that's also worked

-- but she will only do that if he's been told NO several times and has

continued doing whatever it is he's not supposed to do. For whatever

reason, he's rarely disobeyed me -- perhaps that's because when i say NO it

kind of fills up the house and spills out into the surrounding area.

 

Actually there are medicinal properties to the red or white willow that's

traditionally been cut and used for switches.