AT Org, Schools, Suppliers - you name it.

[Guest guest]

To all members

We have tried to keep this list a free and happy place to be. Recently there

seems to be an undercurrent of aggression and negativity appearing daily.

I'm fed up of it, and most if not all, members are to.

So from now - right now - it stops.

If you have a problem with schools, organisations or suppliers do not bring

it here. This is not a request - its a list rule. Anyone who continues to

slam/bash/rubbish/accuse will be placed on moderation.

Thank you

Liz

For the List Owners and Moderators.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Generally, I like to read all of the posts and learn. I have little to

add as I do not have expertise in the field, but I feel the need to make a

few comments:

 

1. If nobody listens to Martin, why do 10 people always have to pop up

and say that?

2. Martin, you have been very clear about what's on your website, and any

of us who want to can go there and read what you have to say. I

appreciate the approach of evidence-based information.

3. This list has become, over the past month or so, the place to go if

you want to hear accusations and defense of suppliers, organizations and

schools. It's one thing to have the occasional update on Gary Young or even

" go look what's posted on this website " but to bring up behind-the-scenes

information that is no longer relevant is not helpful to my education.

4. I appreciate the moderators attempt to bring us back to the intent of

this group.

 

Every one of you has added something to my knowledge and I appreciate it.

I order oils from some of the suppliers who post here and have been very

pleased with my purchases as well as with the interactions with the

companies. Please recognize that each person has an opinion and basis for

information and we each need to take that information and make our own

decisions.

 

Thank you to all who participate regularly. You help lurkers like me

learn,

Reese

 

 

In a message dated 2/26/2010 5:30:42 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,

aromamedical writes:

 

 

 

 

>If you have a problem with schools, organisations or suppliers do not

>bring it here.This is not a request - its a list rule.

 

Wow you been talking to Anya, sounds just like the kind of censorship her

moderators used on oils-herbs which made me leave along with others.

 

>We have tried to keep this list a free and happy place to be.

OK be happy with your sweet little fairy tale world where everything is

nice and happy and there are no problems with suppliers, schools, etc.

 

I detest that kind of censorship and will probably leave.

 

Martin Watt

 

_ATFE_ (ATFE ) , Liz

<liztams wrote:

>

> To all members

> We have tried to keep this list a free and happy place to be. Recently

there

> seems to be an undercurrent of aggression and negativity appearing

daily.

> I'm fed up of it, and most if not all, members are to.

> So from now - right now - it stops.

> If you have a problem with schools, organisations or suppliers do not

bring

> it here. This is not a request - its a list rule. Anyone who continues to

> slam/bash/rubbish/ slam/bash/rubbish/<WBR>accuse w

> Thank you

> Liz

> For the List Owners and Moderators.

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

>If you have a problem with schools, organisations or suppliers do not >bring it

here.This is not a request - its a list rule.

 

Wow you been talking to Anya, sounds just like the kind of censorship her

moderators used on oils-herbs which made me leave along with others.

 

>We have tried to keep this list a free and happy place to be.

OK be happy with your sweet little fairy tale world where everything is nice and

happy and there are no problems with suppliers, schools, etc.

 

I detest that kind of censorship and will probably leave.

 

Martin Watt

 

ATFE , Liz <liztams wrote:

>

> To all members

> We have tried to keep this list a free and happy place to be. Recently there

> seems to be an undercurrent of aggression and negativity appearing daily.

> I'm fed up of it, and most if not all, members are to.

> So from now - right now - it stops.

> If you have a problem with schools, organisations or suppliers do not bring

> it here. This is not a request - its a list rule. Anyone who continues to

> slam/bash/rubbish/accuse will be placed on moderation.

> Thank you

> Liz

> For the List Owners and Moderators.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Martin

This list has a none commercial ethos that was established when the list was

first created. When the *new* ATFE came into being that ethos was continued,

and whether I agree with that policy or not, it's one we abide by.

You can call it censorship if you like, but at the end of the road its the

list owners who are legally responsible for the content of the list. When

you make broad sweeping, detrimental statements against companies - that

have no fair means of reply - it not only reflects on the list management

but also lands on the owners toes should anyone chose to take it further.

Just because no one has take action so far does not mean that no one will in

the future, and I am not prepared to put my personal life in jeopardy for

the sake of your acidic comments or second hand accusations made by anyone.

 

>We have tried to keep this list a free and happy place to be.

" OK be happy with your sweet little fairy tale world where everything is

nice and happy and there are no problems with suppliers, schools, etc "

 

How well you twist words and meanings - and intent. Butch mentioned in an

earlier post how hard it is to walk when the lines are fine drawn. And it is

hard. But we cannot have one rule for members and disregard that rule for

Martin.

 

I ask any of the suppliers or business owners on this list, you included

Martin, how they would feel if their company were maligned in a forum they

were not party to, had no means of redress and the list owners did nothing

to stop - or prevent - it. Added to that the the forum concerned has a

general none commercial policy, and they would have every right to feel very

aggrieved that their company was signaled out - even if the offending

comments were justified. Even a murderer gets a trial before being hung.

 

Yes, my mail can be seen - indeed was - sharp and snappy but I had already

requested a polite end to inflammatory postings that had been ignored.

 

You can take this reply in the open handed, explanatory way it is intended

or twist it to your own ends, up to you.

 

Liz, giving a personal reply.

 

 

 

On 26 February 2010 10:27, Martin <aromamedical wrote:

 

>

>

> >If you have a problem with schools, organisations or suppliers do not

> >bring it here.This is not a request - its a list rule.

>

> Wow you been talking to Anya, sounds just like the kind of censorship her

> moderators used on oils-herbs which made me leave along with others.

>

> >We have tried to keep this list a free and happy place to be.

> OK be happy with your sweet little fairy tale world where everything is

> nice and happy and there are no problems with suppliers, schools, etc.

>

> I detest that kind of censorship and will probably leave.

>

> Martin Watt

>

>

> ATFE <ATFE%40>, Liz <liztams

> wrote:

> >

> > To all members

> > We have tried to keep this list a free and happy place to be. Recently

> there

> > seems to be an undercurrent of aggression and negativity appearing daily.

> > I'm fed up of it, and most if not all, members are to.

> > So from now - right now - it stops.

> > If you have a problem with schools, organisations or suppliers do not

> bring

> > it here. This is not a request - its a list rule. Anyone who continues to

> > slam/bash/rubbish/accuse will be placed on moderation.

> > Thank you

> > Liz

> > For the List Owners and Moderators.

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Martin, sad to say, you got yourself into this pickle. Again. You

confuse censorship with good, fair moderation on a group where we don't

want people ridiculed (as you have done below calling the manner in

which these mods are asking you to behave a " sweet little fairy tale " ).

I believe you've called me and my mods " boot strap Nazis " . I'm not the

owner of oils_herbs, Chris is, and she's the most easy-going gal I know,

but you called some of her list members morons, etc. You left my group

before hers, spewing insults on the way out, too.

 

Well, almost 2000 people on both Chris' list and mine don't think we're

censor-happy, there are a few here, the ones who always attack me when

given the chance. Don't worry, I have a thick skin and a long memory,

and I know why they're persona non grata, and some, like you, are banned

or kept on permanent moderation for the same actions they show here.

 

Running a is hard work, and keeping everyone civil is part

of the duties. Sorry you can't abide by rules of civility, you'd be able

to get your message to a lot more people. This way, you're going to have

no audience now. Me, I get love bomb emails from my group members on a

regular basis, thanking me for the group and how it's run. Even got one

the other day from somebody who's a member on both groups, thanking me

for speaking up here.

 

The mods here are finally having to pay for their laissez faire attitude

towards you, after learning they lose members because of the posts.

People don't like logging on or reading emails with non-stop spew.

 

At least thanks for clarifying the point that you left my group. In the

past you've accused us of kicking you off.

 

It's more a case of you kicking yourself. Again and again.

 

And to the list mods here, this will be my last post on the subject, I

don't want to drag the chat off-topic anymore, but I was named and felt

the need to respond, unlike the last time you allowed one after the

other to attack me here. Why do you allow such nastiness? What does it

prove? I just deleted those when I saw the headers and the senders, all

banned from my group, some banned for just about every group for this

kind of attack behavior. A simple search will show their spew, and now

you know their agenda. They've been banned from my group for various

reasons. Liz, you know why, esp. with the former NP mod. What a murky

pool! Well, on to better things. I'll try to contribute more on AT here

when I can.

 

All my best,

http://NaturalPerfumers.com

 

 

 

 

Martin wrote:

>> If you have a problem with schools, organisations or suppliers do not >bring

it here.This is not a request - its a list rule.

>>

>

> Wow you been talking to Anya, sounds just like the kind of censorship her

moderators used on oils-herbs which made me leave along with others.

>

>

>> We have tried to keep this list a free and happy place to be.

>>

> OK be happy with your sweet little fairy tale world where everything is nice

and happy and there are no problems with suppliers, schools, etc.

>

> I detest that kind of censorship and will probably leave.

>

> Martin Watt

>

> ATFE , Liz <liztams wrote:

>

>> To all members

>> We have tried to keep this list a free and happy place to be. Recently there

>> seems to be an undercurrent of aggression and negativity appearing daily.

>> I'm fed up of it, and most if not all, members are to.

>> So from now - right now - it stops.

>> If you have a problem with schools, organisations or suppliers do not bring

>> it here. This is not a request - its a list rule. Anyone who continues to

>> slam/bash/rubbish/accuse will be placed on moderation.

>> Thank you

>> Liz

>> For the List Owners and Moderators.

>>

>>

>>