Guest guest Posted January 26, 2010 Report Share Posted January 26, 2010 For years, I've questioned why C. aurantium var. amara was named as the source of neroli in all the AT books. I studied at a Citrus Research Center and two of my professors there were among the authors of the industry Bibles, The Citrus Industry Vols. 1-4. I was taught that C. aurantium var. Bouquet des Fleurs was the source of neroli. We had a beautiful stand of the small, rounded trees growing on campus. Early one Sunday morning, my husband and I went down the row, bucket in hand, vodka in bucket, harvesting as many flowers as possible. It was heavenly! For years, however, in my dyslexic way, I reversed the name. I called it Fleurs des Bouquet, and I couldn't find any reference to it. I've since lost my Citrus Industry books on moves, and didn't bother to call back to the University of CA, Riverside to check. I figured maybe the variety I remembered came down with a disease, and the amara replaced it in the industry. After all, one book after another, one supplier after another named the amara as the neroli source. I had a meeting today with a student and colleague who is moving forward with a grant to look into developing distillation projects here in Florida. Neroli came up. I spoke of my confusion with the AT books and suppliers. When I went online to google FdB, all I came up with was a post by myself on a perfumery blog in 2005. I figured something was wrong if not one other hit came up with that name. I googled citrus aurantium varoetoes bouquet neroli and the skies parted and the sun came out. One source after another names Bouquet des Fleurs as the source of neroli. Kind of like the puzzle with the geraniums recently addressed here, but closer to my heart, since I've been wondering what's up all these years. I'm not saying that amara isn't one name for it, but why does everyone cite it as the only source? BdF was #1 according to the old professors, and they were German and quite sure of themselves ;-) I'm German, too, but quite unsure of myself where all this is concerned, lol. Here's some pages, and of course, you may find some other info independently. The first site cites my alma mater, UCR: http://www.bayflora.com/citrustrees.html http://users.kymp.net/citruspages/souroranges.html#bouquetier This site mentions production in Haiti and I believe it says BdF and amara may be synonyms (they call the cultivars Bouquetier): http://www.worldagroforestrycentre.org/SEA/Products/AFDbases/AF/asp/SpeciesInfo.\ asp?SpID=18105 http://www.prcupcc.org/herbs/herbsn/neroli.htm Ah, from UCR! http://lib.ucr.edu/agnic/webber/Vol1/Chapter4.html It's just the beauty and memory of those trees at Riverside that had me cling on to the hope that I could unearth something about their name. Can anybody help? Bouquet de Fleurs (even reversed as I had it) is such a romantic name, and is it possible it's the true, historic name? -- All my best, http://NaturalPerfumers.com on FB http://bit.ly/iamja Guild on FB http://bit.ly/1jP5lB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 Oh this is intresting, as I have smelled that scent before, I think? well, still I think it is facinating how many names or essence's there is sugar Blessings Email: sugarsyl71 Windows Instant messenger(no emails pleas): sugarsyl Skype: Twilight.Angel1 - Perfumes ATFE Monday, January 25, 2010 4:18 PM Neroli tree mystery For years, I've questioned why C. aurantium var. amara was named as the source of neroli in all the AT books. I studied at a Citrus Research Center and two of my professors there were among the authors of the industry Bibles, The Citrus Industry Vols. 1-4. I was taught that C. aurantium var. Bouquet des Fleurs was the source of neroli. We had a beautiful stand of the small, rounded trees growing on campus. Early one Sunday morning, my husband and I went down the row, bucket in hand, vodka in bucket, harvesting as many flowers as possible. It was heavenly! For years, however, in my dyslexic way, I reversed the name. I called it Fleurs des Bouquet, and I couldn't find any reference to it. I've since lost my Citrus Industry books on moves, and didn't bother to call back to the University of CA, Riverside to check. I figured maybe the variety I remembered came down with a disease, and the amara replaced it in the industry. After all, one book after another, one supplier after another named the amara as the neroli source. I had a meeting today with a student and colleague who is moving forward with a grant to look into developing distillation projects here in Florida. Neroli came up. I spoke of my confusion with the AT books and suppliers. When I went online to google FdB, all I came up with was a post by myself on a perfumery blog in 2005. I figured something was wrong if not one other hit came up with that name. I googled citrus aurantium varoetoes bouquet neroli and the skies parted and the sun came out. One source after another names Bouquet des Fleurs as the source of neroli. Kind of like the puzzle with the geraniums recently addressed here, but closer to my heart, since I've been wondering what's up all these years. I'm not saying that amara isn't one name for it, but why does everyone cite it as the only source? BdF was #1 according to the old professors, and they were German and quite sure of themselves ;-) I'm German, too, but quite unsure of myself where all this is concerned, lol. Here's some pages, and of course, you may find some other info independently. The first site cites my alma mater, UCR: http://www.bayflora.com/citrustrees.html http://users.kymp.net/citruspages/souroranges.html#bouquetier This site mentions production in Haiti and I believe it says BdF and amara may be synonyms (they call the cultivars Bouquetier): http://www.worldagroforestrycentre.org/SEA/Products/AFDbases/AF/asp/SpeciesInfo.\ asp?SpID=18105 http://www.prcupcc.org/herbs/herbsn/neroli.htm Ah, from UCR! http://lib.ucr.edu/agnic/webber/Vol1/Chapter4.html It's just the beauty and memory of those trees at Riverside that had me cling on to the hope that I could unearth something about their name. Can anybody help? Bouquet de Fleurs (even reversed as I had it) is such a romantic name, and is it possible it's the true, historic name? -- All my best, Anya http://NaturalPerfumers.com on FB http://bit.ly/iamja Guild on FB http://bit.ly/1jP5lB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 Maybe this will help some understand the process of plant naming. Every five years the International Botanical Congress meets, where it hooks up with the International Association for Plant Taxonomy and together officially change and update the official Latin plant nomenclature (International Code of Botanical Nomenclature). Only the International Botanical Congress can change the name of a plant according to the rules set out in the ICBN. The Latin hierarchy begins with name of a Taxon above the rank of family, then family, (Subfamiles, tribes and subtribes), general and subdivisions of genera, species, and then taxa below the rank of species, i.e., varities, etc., and this is where you see all the x's in the Latin nomenclature. The most important name for an essential oil in aromatherapy include genus and species, however it is important to know aromatic families because this will will show the relationship of several genus to one another. (For those of you who aren't familiar, genus is singular, genera plural.) It is the taxa below species that is so confusing. This is because many plants are so easily hybridized and new plants are being created every day. Anya's Citrus is one of those changing often, easily hybridized. So, Citrus (genus) aurantium (species) is a given for neroli. Since neroli is produced in Tunisia, Italy, Spain and nearby environs, we can assume that C. aurantium var. amara is correct because we don't see var. Bouquet des Fleurs in any of the names from those countries. If neroli becomes produced in the U.S., we very well could see this variety and many others added to the the nomenclature. Not sure that var. Bouquet des Fleurs is specific to the U.S., but it could be. When hybrids between representatives of two or more taxa receive a name, the hybrid nature is representated by a multiplication sign x in the Latin nomenclature, i.e., Mentha x smithiana. Here's the website for the IAPT, which contains the International Code of Botanical Nomenclature. http://www.botanik.univie.ac.at/iapt/index_layer.php If you are a teacher of aromatherapy, I would suggest you use this resource to insure accuracy and update information about the essential oils you teach. I do think that Latin binomials are corrupted in literature and certainly marketing materials. The official rules of taxonomy look daunting, but like any official governing apparatus (like Robert's Rules for appropriate behavior in meetings, or even the official driver's manual of your state), it eventually is easily understood with time and study. Hope this helps. Be Well, Marcia Elston, Samara Botane/Nature Intelligence http://www.wingedseed.com <http://www.wingedseed.com/> http://www.wingedseed.blogspot.com <http://www.wingedseed.blogspot.com/> http://www.aromaconnection.org <http://www.aromaconnection.org/> " We make a living by what we get. We make a life by what we give. " - Winston Churchill _____ ATFE [ATFE ] On Behalf Of Anya's Garden Perfumes Monday, January 25, 2010 4:19 PM ATFE Neroli tree mystery For years, I've questioned why C. aurantium var. amara was named as the source of neroli in all the AT books. I studied at a Citrus Research Center and two of my professors there were among the authors of the industry Bibles, The Citrus Industry Vols. 1-4. I was taught that C. aurantium var. Bouquet des Fleurs was the source of neroli. We had a beautiful stand of the small, rounded trees growing on campus. Early one Sunday morning, my husband and I went down the row, bucket in hand, vodka in bucket, harvesting as many flowers as possible. It was heavenly! For years, however, in my dyslexic way, I reversed the name. I called it Fleurs des Bouquet, and I couldn't find any reference to it. I've since lost my Citrus Industry books on moves, and didn't bother to call back to the University of CA, Riverside to check. I figured maybe the variety I remembered came down with a disease, and the amara replaced it in the industry. After all, one book after another, one supplier after another named the amara as the neroli source. I had a meeting today with a student and colleague who is moving forward with a grant to look into developing distillation projects here in Florida. Neroli came up. I spoke of my confusion with the AT books and suppliers. When I went online to google FdB, all I came up with was a post by myself on a perfumery blog in 2005. I figured something was wrong if not one other hit came up with that name. I googled citrus aurantium varoetoes bouquet neroli and the skies parted and the sun came out. One source after another names Bouquet des Fleurs as the source of neroli. Kind of like the puzzle with the geraniums recently addressed here, but closer to my heart, since I've been wondering what's up all these years. I'm not saying that amara isn't one name for it, but why does everyone cite it as the only source? BdF was #1 according to the old professors, and they were German and quite sure of themselves ;-) I'm German, too, but quite unsure of myself where all this is concerned, lol. Here's some pages, and of course, you may find some other info independently. The first site cites my alma mater, UCR: http://www.bayflora <http://www.bayflora.com/citrustrees.html> ..com/citrustrees.html http://users. <http://users.kymp.net/citruspages/souroranges.html#bouquetier> kymp.net/citruspages/souroranges.html#bouquetier This site mentions production in Haiti and I believe it says BdF and amara may be synonyms (they call the cultivars Bouquetier): http://www.worldagr <http://www.worldagroforestrycentre.org/SEA/Products/AFDbases/AF/asp/Species Info.asp?SpID=18105> oforestrycentre.org/SEA/Products/AFDbases/AF/asp/SpeciesInfo.asp?SpID=18105 http://www.prcupcc. <http://www.prcupcc.org/herbs/herbsn/neroli.htm> org/herbs/herbsn/neroli.htm Ah, from UCR! http://lib.ucr. <http://lib.ucr.edu/agnic/webber/Vol1/Chapter4.html> edu/agnic/webber/Vol1/Chapter4.html It's just the beauty and memory of those trees at Riverside that had me cling on to the hope that I could unearth something about their name. Can anybody help? Bouquet de Fleurs (even reversed as I had it) is such a romantic name, and is it possible it's the true, historic name? -- All my best,http://AnyasGarden. <> com http://NaturalPerfu <http://NaturalPerfumers.com> mers.com on FB http://bit.ly/ <http://bit.ly/iamja> iamja Guild on FB http://bit.ly/ <http://bit.ly/1jP5lB> 1jP5lB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 Latin naming for Neroli oil is similar to many other oils, it is highly misleading. In Tunisia I have seen the propagation of numerous citrus tree types. The method used is to cut the fruits in half, place them on the ground and see what pops up. Then using traditional knowledge they select the seedlings for what they know will be the best for what they require. The trees are often grafted in which case a Latin name becomes meaningless. For example, we were given what looked like large lemons to eat, yet the flavour was beautiful like a sweet juicy orange. The citrus groves are huge with many different varieties. If the oranges or lemons or whatever are thought to be of most value at crop time, then the flowers are left to mature. If not they are picked for distillation. So certainly in Tunisia you can forget all about Latin names for the oils. I kind of doubt there are plantations around the world specifically for Neroli oil, but it is possible. In that case the trees will almost certainly be propagated just for the flower production, the Latin names of strains selected who knows. The chemistry of Neroli oil is highly variable as it depends on where it is produced at any given time. The best I ever came across years ago was Greek. However, after two years there was no more because the grower could get much more money by allowing the fruit to develop. Martin ATFE , " Marcia Elston " <Marcia wrote: > > Maybe this will help some understand the process of plant naming. Every five > years the International Botanical Congress meets, where it hooks up with the > International Association for Plant Taxonomy and together officially change > and update the official Latin plant nomenclature (International Code of > Botanical Nomenclature). Only the International Botanical Congress can > change the name of a plant according to the rules set out in the ICBN. The > Latin hierarchy begins with name of a Taxon above the rank of family, then > family, (Subfamiles, tribes and subtribes), general and subdivisions of > genera, species, and then taxa below the rank of species, i.e., varities, > etc., and this is where you see all the x's in the Latin nomenclature. > The most important name for an essential oil in aromatherapy include genus > and species, however it is important to know aromatic families because this > will will show the relationship of several genus to one another. (For those > of you who aren't familiar, genus is singular, genera plural.) > > It is the taxa below species that is so confusing. This is because many > plants are so easily hybridized and new plants are being created every day. > Anya's Citrus is one of those changing often, easily hybridized. So, Citrus > (genus) aurantium (species) is a given for neroli. Since neroli is produced > in Tunisia, Italy, Spain and nearby environs, we can assume that C. > aurantium var. amara is correct because we don't see var. Bouquet des Fleurs > in any of the names from those countries. If neroli becomes produced in the > U.S., we very well could see this variety and many others added to the the > nomenclature. Not sure that var. Bouquet des Fleurs is specific to the > U.S., but it could be. When hybrids between representatives of two or more > taxa receive a name, the hybrid nature is representated by a multiplication > sign x in the Latin nomenclature, i.e., Mentha x smithiana. > > Here's the website for the IAPT, which contains the International Code of > Botanical Nomenclature. > http://www.botanik.univie.ac.at/iapt/index_layer.php If you are a teacher > of aromatherapy, I would suggest you use this resource to insure accuracy > and update information about the essential oils you teach. > > I do think that Latin binomials are corrupted in literature and certainly > marketing materials. > > The official rules of taxonomy look daunting, but like any official > governing apparatus (like Robert's Rules for appropriate behavior in > meetings, or even the official driver's manual of your state), it eventually > is easily understood with time and study. > > Hope this helps. > > Be Well, > Marcia Elston, Samara Botane/Nature Intelligence > http://www.wingedseed.com <http://www.wingedseed.com/> > http://www.wingedseed.blogspot.com <http://www.wingedseed.blogspot.com/> > http://www.aromaconnection.org <http://www.aromaconnection.org/> > " We make a living by what we get. We make a life by what we give. " - Winston > Churchill > > > _____ > > ATFE [ATFE ] On Behalf Of Anya's > Garden Perfumes > Monday, January 25, 2010 4:19 PM > ATFE > Neroli tree mystery > > > > > For years, I've questioned why C. aurantium var. amara was named as the > source of neroli in all the AT books. I studied at a Citrus Research > Center and two of my professors there were among the authors of the > industry Bibles, The Citrus Industry Vols. 1-4. I was taught that C. > aurantium var. Bouquet des Fleurs was the source of neroli. We had a > beautiful stand of the small, rounded trees growing on campus. Early one > Sunday morning, my husband and I went down the row, bucket in hand, > vodka in bucket, harvesting as many flowers as possible. It was heavenly! > > For years, however, in my dyslexic way, I reversed the name. I called it > Fleurs des Bouquet, and I couldn't find any reference to it. I've since > lost my Citrus Industry books on moves, and didn't bother to call back > to the University of CA, Riverside to check. I figured maybe the variety > I remembered came down with a disease, and the amara replaced it in the > industry. After all, one book after another, one supplier after another > named the amara as the neroli source. > > I had a meeting today with a student and colleague who is moving forward > with a grant to look into developing distillation projects here in > Florida. Neroli came up. I spoke of my confusion with the AT books and > suppliers. > > When I went online to google FdB, all I came up with was a post by > myself on a perfumery blog in 2005. I figured something was wrong if not > one other hit came up with that name. I googled citrus aurantium > varoetoes bouquet neroli and the skies parted and the sun came out. > > One source after another names Bouquet des Fleurs as the source of neroli. > > Kind of like the puzzle with the geraniums recently addressed here, but > closer to my heart, since I've been wondering what's up all these years. > I'm not saying that amara isn't one name for it, but why does everyone > cite it as the only source? BdF was #1 according to the old professors, > and they were German and quite sure of themselves ;-) I'm German, too, > but quite unsure of myself where all this is concerned, lol. > > Here's some pages, and of course, you may find some other info > independently. > > The first site cites my alma mater, UCR: > http://www.bayflora <http://www.bayflora.com/citrustrees.html> > .com/citrustrees.html > http://users. > <http://users.kymp.net/citruspages/souroranges.html#bouquetier> > kymp.net/citruspages/souroranges.html#bouquetier > This site mentions production in Haiti and I believe it says BdF and > amara may be synonyms (they call the cultivars Bouquetier): > http://www.worldagr > <http://www.worldagroforestrycentre.org/SEA/Products/AFDbases/AF/asp/Species > Info.asp?SpID=18105> > oforestrycentre.org/SEA/Products/AFDbases/AF/asp/SpeciesInfo.asp?SpID=18105 > http://www.prcupcc. <http://www.prcupcc.org/herbs/herbsn/neroli.htm> > org/herbs/herbsn/neroli.htm > Ah, from UCR! > http://lib.ucr. <http://lib.ucr.edu/agnic/webber/Vol1/Chapter4.html> > edu/agnic/webber/Vol1/Chapter4.html > > It's just the beauty and memory of those trees at Riverside that had me > cling on to the hope that I could unearth something about their name. > Can anybody help? Bouquet de Fleurs (even reversed as I had it) is such > a romantic name, and is it possible it's the true, historic name? > > -- > All my best, > Anya > http://AnyasGarden. <> com > http://NaturalPerfu <http://NaturalPerfumers.com> mers.com > on FB http://bit.ly/ <http://bit.ly/iamja> iamja > Guild on FB http://bit.ly/ <http://bit.ly/1jP5lB> 1jP5lB > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 Martin wrote: > Latin naming for Neroli oil is similar to many other oils, it is highly misleading. In Tunisia I have seen the propagation of numerous citrus tree types. The method used is to cut the fruits in half, place them on the ground and see what pops up. Then using traditional knowledge they select the seedlings for what they know will be the best for what they require. The trees are often grafted in which case a Latin name becomes meaningless. For example, we were given what looked like large lemons to eat, yet the flavour was beautiful like a sweet juicy orange. > The grafting had nothing to do with the fact that it looked like a lemon but tasted like an orange. It was a cultivar that looked like a lemon - and tasted like an orange. It is true that the latin name for the *tree* became meaningless at that point, but the individual grafted branches were still what they were before the grafting. Grafting, either above-ground or on rootstock, it usually done for dwarfing, vigor, cold resistance, disease resistance, or novelty when above ground and to be a conversation piece. You can hav efive or more distinctly different scions grafted onto a tree, and the tree trunk is a mere anchor for the lemon, lime, grapefruit, orange, etc. that are growing on it. The first sweet orange appeared on a sour orange tree in the 15th century. It's what is called a chimera. No sweet oranges were known before that. And from that one branch, all of the subsequent sweet orange varieties have been hybridized or spontaneously sprouted as did that first chimera. The citrus family is amazing. We had 1200 varieties at UCR alone. > The citrus groves are huge with many different varieties. If the oranges or lemons or whatever are thought to be of most value at crop time, then the flowers are left to mature. If not they are picked for distillation. So certainly in Tunisia you can forget all about Latin names for the oils. I kind of doubt there are plantations around the world specifically for Neroli oil, but it is possible. In that case the trees will almost certainly be propagated just for the flower production, the Latin names of strains selected who knows. > This rings very true. A neroli is a neroli is a neroli - or not. Well, at least not according to standard definitions. It might smell like a good neroli, but be neither amara, or Bouquet de Fleurs or any other named source. > The chemistry of Neroli oil is highly variable as it depends on where it is produced at any given time. The best I ever came across years ago was Greek. However, after two years there was no more because the grower could get much more money by allowing the fruit to develop. > > Martin > Some neroli hydrosol I have from Spain was manipulated by the supplier. He, like a perfumer, blended several different neroli hydrosols to achieve a specific scent profile. It's gorgeous. The aromatherapist's insistence that an oil be from one source seems to be given a good shake up by all this, if what the consensus we seem to be moving towards is true - that there has never been, probably, a single source named cultivar tree in any grove in modern times. Neroli has all been a blend of different trees. > All my best, > Anya > > http://NaturalPerfumers.com > on FB http://bit.ly/iamja > Guild on FB http://bit.ly/1jP5lB > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 27, 2010 Report Share Posted January 27, 2010 Intresting , in our home, we have what they call, " blood oranges " not sure of what the mix is but it is sweet and tart at the same time, very tastey, possibly a grapefruit? does anyone know? sugar - Perfumes ATFE Wednesday, January 27, 2010 11:55 AM Re: Re: Neroli tree mystery Martin wrote: > Latin naming for Neroli oil is similar to many other oils, it is highly misleading. In Tunisia I have seen the propagation of numerous citrus tree types. The method used is to cut the fruits in half, place them on the ground and see what pops up. Then using traditional knowledge they select the seedlings for what they know will be the best for what they require. The trees are often grafted in which case a Latin name becomes meaningless. For example, we were given what looked like large lemons to eat, yet the flavour was beautiful like a sweet juicy orange. > The grafting had nothing to do with the fact that it looked like a lemon but tasted like an orange. It was a cultivar that looked like a lemon - and tasted like an orange. It is true that the latin name for the *tree* became meaningless at that point, but the individual grafted branches were still what they were before the grafting. Grafting, either above-ground or on rootstock, it usually done for dwarfing, vigor, cold resistance, disease resistance, or novelty when above ground and to be a conversation piece. You can hav efive or more distinctly different scions grafted onto a tree, and the tree trunk is a mere anchor for the lemon, lime, grapefruit, orange, etc. that are growing on it. The first sweet orange appeared on a sour orange tree in the 15th century. It's what is called a chimera. No sweet oranges were known before that. And from that one branch, all of the subsequent sweet orange varieties have been hybridized or spontaneously sprouted as did that first chimera. The citrus family is amazing. We had 1200 varieties at UCR alone. > The citrus groves are huge with many different varieties. If the oranges or lemons or whatever are thought to be of most value at crop time, then the flowers are left to mature. If not they are picked for distillation. So certainly in Tunisia you can forget all about Latin names for the oils. I kind of doubt there are plantations around the world specifically for Neroli oil, but it is possible. In that case the trees will almost certainly be propagated just for the flower production, the Latin names of strains selected who knows. > This rings very true. A neroli is a neroli is a neroli - or not. Well, at least not according to standard definitions. It might smell like a good neroli, but be neither amara, or Bouquet de Fleurs or any other named source. > The chemistry of Neroli oil is highly variable as it depends on where it is produced at any given time. The best I ever came across years ago was Greek. However, after two years there was no more because the grower could get much more money by allowing the fruit to develop. > > Martin > Some neroli hydrosol I have from Spain was manipulated by the supplier. He, like a perfumer, blended several different neroli hydrosols to achieve a specific scent profile. It's gorgeous. The aromatherapist's insistence that an oil be from one source seems to be given a good shake up by all this, if what the consensus we seem to be moving towards is true - that there has never been, probably, a single source named cultivar tree in any grove in modern times. Neroli has all been a blend of different trees. > All my best, > Anya > > http://NaturalPerfumers.com > on FB http://bit.ly/iamja > Guild on FB http://bit.ly/1jP5lB > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2010 Report Share Posted January 28, 2010 Sent this yesterday but it did not arrive. The debate on Neroli prompted me to dig out an old video of the Tunisian plantations and rosemary distillation. Unfortunately it was on a videotape that had partly decayed. I converted it to .vob format but still lousy quality. Will now convert to an .mpg and see if I can edit out some of the bad bits and upload to the groups folder. It has a good view of the seedlings growing in the orchard. May take a bit of time though. There were a couple of others on that trip who were taking videos, but will have to strain the old brain cells to try and think who. Martin ATFE , Perfumes <anya wrote: > > > Martin wrote: > > Latin naming for Neroli oil is similar to many other oils, it is highly misleading. In Tunisia I have seen the propagation of numerous citrus tree types. The method used is to cut the fruits in half, place them on the ground and see what pops up. Then using traditional knowledge they select the seedlings for what they know will be the best for what they require. The trees are often grafted in which case a Latin name becomes meaningless. For example, we were given what looked like large lemons to eat, yet the flavour was beautiful like a sweet juicy orange. > > > The grafting had nothing to do with the fact that it looked like a lemon > but tasted like an orange. It was a cultivar that looked like a lemon - > and tasted like an orange. It is true that the latin name for the *tree* > became meaningless at that point, but the individual grafted branches > were still what they were before the grafting. > > Grafting, either above-ground or on rootstock, it usually done for > dwarfing, vigor, cold resistance, disease resistance, or novelty when > above ground and to be a conversation piece. You can hav efive or more > distinctly different scions grafted onto a tree, and the tree trunk is a > mere anchor for the lemon, lime, grapefruit, orange, etc. that are > growing on it. > > The first sweet orange appeared on a sour orange tree in the 15th > century. It's what is called a chimera. No sweet oranges were known > before that. And from that one branch, all of the subsequent sweet > orange varieties have been hybridized or spontaneously sprouted as did > that first chimera. > > The citrus family is amazing. We had 1200 varieties at UCR alone. > > The citrus groves are huge with many different varieties. If the oranges or lemons or whatever are thought to be of most value at crop time, then the flowers are left to mature. If not they are picked for distillation. So certainly in Tunisia you can forget all about Latin names for the oils. I kind of doubt there are plantations around the world specifically for Neroli oil, but it is possible. In that case the trees will almost certainly be propagated just for the flower production, the Latin names of strains selected who knows. > > > This rings very true. A neroli is a neroli is a neroli - or not. Well, > at least not according to standard definitions. It might smell like a > good neroli, but be neither amara, or Bouquet de Fleurs or any other > named source. > > The chemistry of Neroli oil is highly variable as it depends on where it is produced at any given time. The best I ever came across years ago was Greek. However, after two years there was no more because the grower could get much more money by allowing the fruit to develop. > > > > Martin > > > Some neroli hydrosol I have from Spain was manipulated by the supplier. > He, like a perfumer, blended several different neroli hydrosols to > achieve a specific scent profile. It's gorgeous. The aromatherapist's > insistence that an oil be from one source seems to be given a good shake > up by all this, if what the consensus we seem to be moving towards is > true - that there has never been, probably, a single source named > cultivar tree in any grove in modern times. Neroli has all been a blend > of different trees. > > > All my best, > > Anya > > > > http://NaturalPerfumers.com > > on FB http://bit.ly/iamja > > Guild on FB http://bit.ly/1jP5lB > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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