Guest guest Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 Hello Everybody. I been part of this group for more than two years , and I find this group one of the most accurate on the web. I have a question for you all, I am very interested to find out about the EO and pregnancy. I know you have to be very conscious to recommend any EO especially the first trimester of pregnancy, but I would love to know more about why. I been reading a lot of websites and articles about it, but I would love to now more. Can I find a list of EO that you can not use when you are pregnant? Can they be harmful when you put that in creams, diluted in water to take a bath, diffuser etc? It make sound very basic, but I think is a very important matter. Thank you again for all you information and wish all of you a wonderful 2010!!! Claudia Schlebach http://claudiaschlebach.swissjust-usa.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx <http://claudiaschlebach.swissjust-usa.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 Hi Claudia, This is a tough question to answer! My take on it is that there are two considerations. Firstly, the total amount of essential oil used and secondly, which oils to avoid. The answer to the first question can be no more than a " best guess " as there is not enough information to be specific. To take one example, 1,8-cineole, the main constituent of eucalyptus oil, is readily absorbed by humans through either inhalation or dermal application, and it also readily passes from the mother's blood into the placenta. Animal data suggests that it is not fetotoxic. However, there is little information on possible fetotoxic/neurotoxic effects of essential oil constituents in general, so minimal amounts are recommended. I would interpret that as 1% or 2% in a massage oil, no long-term inhalation (i.e. vaporizing oils for hours) and keeping steam inhalation to about 15 minutes. Remember, every type of toxicity is dose-dependent. As for which oils to avoid (throughout pregnancy) any aromatherapist you talk to will give you a different list, and some oils should be avoided or used with care anyway, because they are generally toxic (eg pennyroyal). I suggest avoiding completely these oils, for the reason that they can be fetotoxic, or contain significant quantities of constituents that can be fetotoxic: Daucus carota seed, Salvia officinalis leaf, Petroselinum crispum seed, Petroselinum crispum leaf, Anethum sowa seed, Salvia lavandulifolia leaf, Curcuma zedoaria rhizome, Artemisia absinthium leaf and Juniperus sabina leaf. These oils could be reproductively toxic, even when used in the minimal quantities suggested above. Ruta graveolens leaf oil should possibly also be avoided. Robert ATFE , " Claudia " <claudia1027 wrote: > > > Hello Everybody. > > I been part of this group for more than two years , and I find this > group one of the most accurate on the web. > > I have a question for you all, I am very interested to find out about > the EO and pregnancy. I know you have to be very conscious to recommend > any EO especially the first trimester of pregnancy, but I would love to > know more about why. I been reading a lot of websites and articles about > it, but I would love to now more. > > Can I find a list of EO that you can not use when you are pregnant? > Can they be harmful when you put that in creams, diluted in water to > take a bath, diffuser etc? > > It make sound very basic, but I think is a very important matter. > > Thank you again for all you information and wish all of you a wonderful > 2010!!! > > Claudia Schlebach > > http://claudiaschlebach.swissjust-usa.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx > <http://claudiaschlebach.swissjust-usa.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx> > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 I am a certified essential oil therapist, and these are the oils to avoid during pregnancy. Aniseed (Pimpinella anisum), Basil (Ocimum basilicum), Birch (Betula alba), Cedarwood (Cedrus atlantica & Juniperus virginiana), Clary sage (Salvia sciarea), Cypress (Cupressus semperv'irens), Fennel (Foeniculum vulgare), Hyssop (Hyssopus officinalls), Jasmine (Jasminum grandiflorum), Juniper (Juniperus communis), Sweet Marjoram (Origanum marjorana), Myrrh (Commiphora myrrha), Peppermint (Mentha piperita), Parsley (Petroselinum sativum), Rosemary (Rosernarinus officinalis), Sage (Salvia officinalis), Tarragon (Artemisia dracunculus), Thyme (Thymus vulgaris) Chamomile, lavender, geranium and rose can be used during the first three months. That's my list. Lynn in CA. newbie on the list On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 10:55 AM, tisserand < rtisserand wrote: > > > Hi Claudia, > > This is a tough question to answer! My take on it is that there are two > considerations. Firstly, the total amount of essential oil used and > secondly, which oils to avoid. > > The answer to the first question can be no more than a " best guess " as > there is not enough information to be specific. To take one example, > 1,8-cineole, the main constituent of eucalyptus oil, is readily absorbed by > humans through either inhalation or dermal application, and it also readily > passes from the mother's blood into the placenta. Animal data suggests that > it is not fetotoxic. However, there is little information on possible > fetotoxic/neurotoxic effects of essential oil constituents in general, so > minimal amounts are recommended. I would interpret that as 1% or 2% in a > massage oil, no long-term inhalation (i.e. vaporizing oils for hours) and > keeping steam inhalation to about 15 minutes. Remember, every type of > toxicity is dose-dependent. > > As for which oils to avoid (throughout pregnancy) any aromatherapist you > talk to will give you a different list, and some oils should be avoided or > used with care anyway, because they are generally toxic (eg pennyroyal). I > suggest avoiding completely these oils, for the reason that they can be > fetotoxic, or contain significant quantities of constituents that can be > fetotoxic: Daucus carota seed, Salvia officinalis leaf, Petroselinum crispum > seed, Petroselinum crispum leaf, Anethum sowa seed, Salvia lavandulifolia > leaf, Curcuma zedoaria rhizome, Artemisia absinthium leaf and Juniperus > sabina leaf. These oils could be reproductively toxic, even when used in the > minimal quantities suggested above. Ruta graveolens leaf oil should possibly > also be avoided. > > Robert > > ATFE <ATFE%40>, " Claudia " > <claudia1027 wrote: > > > > > > Hello Everybody. > > > > I been part of this group for more than two years , and I find this > > group one of the most accurate on the web. > > > > I have a question for you all, I am very interested to find out about > > the EO and pregnancy. I know you have to be very conscious to recommend > > any EO especially the first trimester of pregnancy, but I would love to > > know more about why. I been reading a lot of websites and articles about > > it, but I would love to now more. > > > > Can I find a list of EO that you can not use when you are pregnant? > > Can they be harmful when you put that in creams, diluted in water to > > take a bath, diffuser etc? > > > > It make sound very basic, but I think is a very important matter. > > > > Thank you again for all you information and wish all of you a wonderful > > 2010!!! > > > > Claudia Schlebach > > > > http://claudiaschlebach.swissjust-usa.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx > > <http://claudiaschlebach.swissjust-usa.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx> > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 Hi Lynn, I have to confess that I cannot fathom why some of these oils are supposedly hazardous in pregnancy. Why, for example, clary sage, cypress, the two cedarwoods, jasmine, juniper, marjoram, myrrh, peppermint, rosemary and thyme? I'm just very curious - do you know why these particular oils should not be used? Chamomile, lavender and geranium - are these oils singled out for any particular reason? Robert ATFE , Lynn <mrningdw wrote: > > I am a certified essential oil therapist, and these are the oils to avoid > during pregnancy. > > Aniseed (Pimpinella anisum), Basil (Ocimum basilicum), Birch (Betula alba), > Cedarwood (Cedrus atlantica & Juniperus virginiana), Clary sage (Salvia > sciarea), Cypress (Cupressus semperv'irens), Fennel (Foeniculum vulgare), > Hyssop (Hyssopus officinalls), Jasmine (Jasminum grandiflorum), Juniper > (Juniperus communis), Sweet Marjoram (Origanum marjorana), Myrrh (Commiphora > myrrha), Peppermint (Mentha piperita), Parsley (Petroselinum sativum), > Rosemary (Rosernarinus officinalis), Sage (Salvia officinalis), Tarragon > (Artemisia dracunculus), Thyme (Thymus vulgaris) > > Chamomile, lavender, geranium and rose can be used during the first three > months. > > That's my list. > > Lynn > in CA. > newbie on the list > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 10:55 AM, tisserand < > rtisserand wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Claudia, > > > > This is a tough question to answer! My take on it is that there are two > > considerations. Firstly, the total amount of essential oil used and > > secondly, which oils to avoid. > > > > The answer to the first question can be no more than a " best guess " as > > there is not enough information to be specific. To take one example, > > 1,8-cineole, the main constituent of eucalyptus oil, is readily absorbed by > > humans through either inhalation or dermal application, and it also readily > > passes from the mother's blood into the placenta. Animal data suggests that > > it is not fetotoxic. However, there is little information on possible > > fetotoxic/neurotoxic effects of essential oil constituents in general, so > > minimal amounts are recommended. I would interpret that as 1% or 2% in a > > massage oil, no long-term inhalation (i.e. vaporizing oils for hours) and > > keeping steam inhalation to about 15 minutes. Remember, every type of > > toxicity is dose-dependent. > > > > As for which oils to avoid (throughout pregnancy) any aromatherapist you > > talk to will give you a different list, and some oils should be avoided or > > used with care anyway, because they are generally toxic (eg pennyroyal). I > > suggest avoiding completely these oils, for the reason that they can be > > fetotoxic, or contain significant quantities of constituents that can be > > fetotoxic: Daucus carota seed, Salvia officinalis leaf, Petroselinum crispum > > seed, Petroselinum crispum leaf, Anethum sowa seed, Salvia lavandulifolia > > leaf, Curcuma zedoaria rhizome, Artemisia absinthium leaf and Juniperus > > sabina leaf. These oils could be reproductively toxic, even when used in the > > minimal quantities suggested above. Ruta graveolens leaf oil should possibly > > also be avoided. > > > > Robert > > > > ATFE <ATFE%40>, " Claudia " > > <claudia1027@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello Everybody. > > > > > > I been part of this group for more than two years , and I find this > > > group one of the most accurate on the web. > > > > > > I have a question for you all, I am very interested to find out about > > > the EO and pregnancy. I know you have to be very conscious to recommend > > > any EO especially the first trimester of pregnancy, but I would love to > > > know more about why. I been reading a lot of websites and articles about > > > it, but I would love to now more. > > > > > > Can I find a list of EO that you can not use when you are pregnant? > > > Can they be harmful when you put that in creams, diluted in water to > > > take a bath, diffuser etc? > > > > > > It make sound very basic, but I think is a very important matter. > > > > > > Thank you again for all you information and wish all of you a wonderful > > > 2010!!! > > > > > > Claudia Schlebach > > > > > > http://claudiaschlebach.swissjust-usa.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx > > > <http://claudiaschlebach.swissjust-usa.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx> > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 *Robert, Excellent question. I have just recently graduated from the college of Botanical Arts, COBHA, in Santa Cruz, CA. Elizabeth Van Buren is a great teacher, and the classes were very detailed. www.cobha.org This is the list received in class, and that is what I am going by. If I were to do anything with a client, the oils would be chosen for their unique issues. Looking at the list there are some that could be used in pregnancy, like clary sage, but more useful in encouraging labor. Cypress can regulate the menstrual cycle, so I would tend not to use that during pregnancy. Jasmine is another one to use during labor. It appears that there is a distinction between " during pregnancy " and labor. As noted before, there are lists, which I treat as guidelines. I know I'm new, and only tried to add my .02. Respectfully, Lynn * On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 12:41 PM, tisserand < rtisserand wrote: > > > Hi Lynn, > > I have to confess that I cannot fathom why some of these oils are > supposedly hazardous in pregnancy. Why, for example, clary sage, cypress, > the two cedarwoods, jasmine, juniper, marjoram, myrrh, peppermint, rosemary > and thyme? I'm just very curious - do you know why these particular oils > should not be used? > > Chamomile, lavender and geranium - are these oils singled out for any > particular reason? > > Robert > > > ATFE <ATFE%40>, Lynn <mrningdw > wrote: > > > > I am a certified essential oil therapist, and these are the oils to avoid > > during pregnancy. > > > > Aniseed (Pimpinella anisum), Basil (Ocimum basilicum), Birch (Betula > alba), > > Cedarwood (Cedrus atlantica & Juniperus virginiana), Clary sage (Salvia > > sciarea), Cypress (Cupressus semperv'irens), Fennel (Foeniculum vulgare), > > Hyssop (Hyssopus officinalls), Jasmine (Jasminum grandiflorum), Juniper > > (Juniperus communis), Sweet Marjoram (Origanum marjorana), Myrrh > (Commiphora > > myrrha), Peppermint (Mentha piperita), Parsley (Petroselinum sativum), > > Rosemary (Rosernarinus officinalis), Sage (Salvia officinalis), Tarragon > > (Artemisia dracunculus), Thyme (Thymus vulgaris) > > > > Chamomile, lavender, geranium and rose can be used during the first three > > months. > > > > That's my list. > > > > Lynn > > in CA. > > newbie on the list > > > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 10:55 AM, tisserand < > > rtisserand wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Claudia, > > > > > > This is a tough question to answer! My take on it is that there are two > > > considerations. Firstly, the total amount of essential oil used and > > > secondly, which oils to avoid. > > > > > > The answer to the first question can be no more than a " best guess " as > > > there is not enough information to be specific. To take one example, > > > 1,8-cineole, the main constituent of eucalyptus oil, is readily > absorbed by > > > humans through either inhalation or dermal application, and it also > readily > > > passes from the mother's blood into the placenta. Animal data suggests > that > > > it is not fetotoxic. However, there is little information on possible > > > fetotoxic/neurotoxic effects of essential oil constituents in general, > so > > > minimal amounts are recommended. I would interpret that as 1% or 2% in > a > > > massage oil, no long-term inhalation (i.e. vaporizing oils for hours) > and > > > keeping steam inhalation to about 15 minutes. Remember, every type of > > > toxicity is dose-dependent. > > > > > > As for which oils to avoid (throughout pregnancy) any aromatherapist > you > > > talk to will give you a different list, and some oils should be avoided > or > > > used with care anyway, because they are generally toxic (eg > pennyroyal). I > > > suggest avoiding completely these oils, for the reason that they can be > > > fetotoxic, or contain significant quantities of constituents that can > be > > > fetotoxic: Daucus carota seed, Salvia officinalis leaf, Petroselinum > crispum > > > seed, Petroselinum crispum leaf, Anethum sowa seed, Salvia > lavandulifolia > > > leaf, Curcuma zedoaria rhizome, Artemisia absinthium leaf and Juniperus > > > sabina leaf. These oils could be reproductively toxic, even when used > in the > > > minimal quantities suggested above. Ruta graveolens leaf oil should > possibly > > > also be avoided. > > > > > > Robert > > > > > > ATFE <ATFE%40> <ATFE% > 40>, " Claudia " > > > > <claudia1027@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Everybody. > > > > > > > > I been part of this group for more than two years , and I find this > > > > group one of the most accurate on the web. > > > > > > > > I have a question for you all, I am very interested to find out about > > > > the EO and pregnancy. I know you have to be very conscious to > recommend > > > > any EO especially the first trimester of pregnancy, but I would love > to > > > > know more about why. I been reading a lot of websites and articles > about > > > > it, but I would love to now more. > > > > > > > > Can I find a list of EO that you can not use when you are pregnant? > > > > Can they be harmful when you put that in creams, diluted in water to > > > > take a bath, diffuser etc? > > > > > > > > It make sound very basic, but I think is a very important matter. > > > > > > > > Thank you again for all you information and wish all of you a > wonderful > > > > 2010!!! > > > > > > > > Claudia Schlebach > > > > > > > > http://claudiaschlebach.swissjust-usa.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx > > > > <http://claudiaschlebach.swissjust-usa.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 Thank you, Lynn this is useful to know, and I appreciate you replying. This is as you may have surmised a controversial area, and is symptomatic of the fact that there are no universally accepted safety guidelines in aromatherapy. I wonder how we can politely ask Elizabeth Van Buren how she came up with her list. Probably if we looked closely in aromatherapy " textbooks " we might find the answer. I understand that no-one wants to take unnecessary risks with essential oils. What is perhaps not so often appreciated, is that claiming a specific adverse effect for an essential oil when there is no evidence for such an adverse effect (the just-in-case principal? the fear principal?) is generally not a good idea. The reasons are that (a) it leads to confusion and argument among practitioners (b) it could possibly be a basis for (unwarranted) litigation and © it can cause heartbreak. Imagine you had a miscarriage, and then read in a newspaper article that cypress oil could cause bleeding in pregnancy, and knew that you had been receiving weekly aromatherapy massage with cypress oil. You might then phone someone like Robert Tisserand and ask him, in tears, whether you had murdered your unborn child. There is no evidence, by the way, that cypress oil causes bleeding in pregnancy, is abortifacient, or has hormone disrupting effects. Robert ATFE , Lynn <mrningdw wrote: > > *Robert, > > Excellent question. I have just recently graduated from the college of > Botanical Arts, COBHA, in Santa Cruz, CA. Elizabeth Van Buren is a great > teacher, and the classes were very detailed. www.cobha.org This is the > list received in class, and that is what I am going by. > > If I were to do anything with a client, the oils would be chosen for their > unique issues. Looking at the list there are some that could be used in > pregnancy, like clary sage, but more useful in encouraging labor. Cypress > can regulate the menstrual cycle, so I would tend not to use that during > pregnancy. Jasmine is another one to use during labor. It appears that > there is a distinction between " during pregnancy " and labor. > > As noted before, there are lists, which I treat as guidelines. I know I'm > new, and only tried to add my .02. > > Respectfully, > > Lynn > > > > * > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 12:41 PM, tisserand < > rtisserand wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Lynn, > > > > I have to confess that I cannot fathom why some of these oils are > > supposedly hazardous in pregnancy. Why, for example, clary sage, cypress, > > the two cedarwoods, jasmine, juniper, marjoram, myrrh, peppermint, rosemary > > and thyme? I'm just very curious - do you know why these particular oils > > should not be used? > > > > Chamomile, lavender and geranium - are these oils singled out for any > > particular reason? > > > > Robert > > > > > > ATFE <ATFE%40>, Lynn <mrningdw@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I am a certified essential oil therapist, and these are the oils to avoid > > > during pregnancy. > > > > > > Aniseed (Pimpinella anisum), Basil (Ocimum basilicum), Birch (Betula > > alba), > > > Cedarwood (Cedrus atlantica & Juniperus virginiana), Clary sage (Salvia > > > sciarea), Cypress (Cupressus semperv'irens), Fennel (Foeniculum vulgare), > > > Hyssop (Hyssopus officinalls), Jasmine (Jasminum grandiflorum), Juniper > > > (Juniperus communis), Sweet Marjoram (Origanum marjorana), Myrrh > > (Commiphora > > > myrrha), Peppermint (Mentha piperita), Parsley (Petroselinum sativum), > > > Rosemary (Rosernarinus officinalis), Sage (Salvia officinalis), Tarragon > > > (Artemisia dracunculus), Thyme (Thymus vulgaris) > > > > > > Chamomile, lavender, geranium and rose can be used during the first three > > > months. > > > > > > That's my list. > > > > > > Lynn > > > in CA. > > > newbie on the list > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 10:55 AM, tisserand@ < > > > rtisserand@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Claudia, > > > > > > > > This is a tough question to answer! My take on it is that there are two > > > > considerations. Firstly, the total amount of essential oil used and > > > > secondly, which oils to avoid. > > > > > > > > The answer to the first question can be no more than a " best guess " as > > > > there is not enough information to be specific. To take one example, > > > > 1,8-cineole, the main constituent of eucalyptus oil, is readily > > absorbed by > > > > humans through either inhalation or dermal application, and it also > > readily > > > > passes from the mother's blood into the placenta. Animal data suggests > > that > > > > it is not fetotoxic. However, there is little information on possible > > > > fetotoxic/neurotoxic effects of essential oil constituents in general, > > so > > > > minimal amounts are recommended. I would interpret that as 1% or 2% in > > a > > > > massage oil, no long-term inhalation (i.e. vaporizing oils for hours) > > and > > > > keeping steam inhalation to about 15 minutes. Remember, every type of > > > > toxicity is dose-dependent. > > > > > > > > As for which oils to avoid (throughout pregnancy) any aromatherapist > > you > > > > talk to will give you a different list, and some oils should be avoided > > or > > > > used with care anyway, because they are generally toxic (eg > > pennyroyal). I > > > > suggest avoiding completely these oils, for the reason that they can be > > > > fetotoxic, or contain significant quantities of constituents that can > > be > > > > fetotoxic: Daucus carota seed, Salvia officinalis leaf, Petroselinum > > crispum > > > > seed, Petroselinum crispum leaf, Anethum sowa seed, Salvia > > lavandulifolia > > > > leaf, Curcuma zedoaria rhizome, Artemisia absinthium leaf and Juniperus > > > > sabina leaf. These oils could be reproductively toxic, even when used > > in the > > > > minimal quantities suggested above. Ruta graveolens leaf oil should > > possibly > > > > also be avoided. > > > > > > > > Robert > > > > > > > > ATFE <ATFE%40> <ATFE% > > 40>, " Claudia " > > > > > > <claudia1027@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Everybody. > > > > > > > > > > I been part of this group for more than two years , and I find this > > > > > group one of the most accurate on the web. > > > > > > > > > > I have a question for you all, I am very interested to find out about > > > > > the EO and pregnancy. I know you have to be very conscious to > > recommend > > > > > any EO especially the first trimester of pregnancy, but I would love > > to > > > > > know more about why. I been reading a lot of websites and articles > > about > > > > > it, but I would love to now more. > > > > > > > > > > Can I find a list of EO that you can not use when you are pregnant? > > > > > Can they be harmful when you put that in creams, diluted in water to > > > > > take a bath, diffuser etc? > > > > > > > > > > It make sound very basic, but I think is a very important matter. > > > > > > > > > > Thank you again for all you information and wish all of you a > > wonderful > > > > > 2010!!! > > > > > > > > > > Claudia Schlebach > > > > > > > > > > http://claudiaschlebach.swissjust-usa.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx > > > > > <http://claudiaschlebach.swissjust-usa.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 I do not know what school " certified " you, but they are certainly teaching hogwash. Many of the oils you list are permitted food flavours and commonly used in thousands of foods. The list is typical of the fantasies in aromatherapy books that have been around for years. As Robert says, everything depends on how used, volume, methods, etc. If we are talkng about their use in diffusers or diluted in aromatherapy massage, there is not a shred of sound evidence that most of these could be harmful during pregnancy. Martin Watt http://www.aromamedical.com ATFE , Lynn <mrningdw wrote: > > I am a certified essential oil therapist, and these are the oils to avoid > during pregnancy. > > Aniseed (Pimpinella anisum), Basil (Ocimum basilicum), Birch (Betula alba), > Cedarwood (Cedrus atlantica & Juniperus virginiana), Clary sage (Salvia > sciarea), Cypress (Cupressus semperv'irens), Fennel (Foeniculum vulgare), > Hyssop (Hyssopus officinalls), Jasmine (Jasminum grandiflorum), Juniper > (Juniperus communis), Sweet Marjoram (Origanum marjorana), Myrrh (Commiphora > myrrha), Peppermint (Mentha piperita), Parsley (Petroselinum sativum), > Rosemary (Rosernarinus officinalis), Sage (Salvia officinalis), Tarragon > (Artemisia dracunculus), Thyme (Thymus vulgaris) > > Chamomile, lavender, geranium and rose can be used during the first three > months. > > That's my list. > > Lynn > in CA. > newbie on the list > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 10:55 AM, tisserand < > rtisserand wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Claudia, > > > > This is a tough question to answer! My take on it is that there are two > > considerations. Firstly, the total amount of essential oil used and > > secondly, which oils to avoid. > > > > The answer to the first question can be no more than a " best guess " as > > there is not enough information to be specific. To take one example, > > 1,8-cineole, the main constituent of eucalyptus oil, is readily absorbed by > > humans through either inhalation or dermal application, and it also readily > > passes from the mother's blood into the placenta. Animal data suggests that > > it is not fetotoxic. However, there is little information on possible > > fetotoxic/neurotoxic effects of essential oil constituents in general, so > > minimal amounts are recommended. I would interpret that as 1% or 2% in a > > massage oil, no long-term inhalation (i.e. vaporizing oils for hours) and > > keeping steam inhalation to about 15 minutes. Remember, every type of > > toxicity is dose-dependent. > > > > As for which oils to avoid (throughout pregnancy) any aromatherapist you > > talk to will give you a different list, and some oils should be avoided or > > used with care anyway, because they are generally toxic (eg pennyroyal). I > > suggest avoiding completely these oils, for the reason that they can be > > fetotoxic, or contain significant quantities of constituents that can be > > fetotoxic: Daucus carota seed, Salvia officinalis leaf, Petroselinum crispum > > seed, Petroselinum crispum leaf, Anethum sowa seed, Salvia lavandulifolia > > leaf, Curcuma zedoaria rhizome, Artemisia absinthium leaf and Juniperus > > sabina leaf. These oils could be reproductively toxic, even when used in the > > minimal quantities suggested above. Ruta graveolens leaf oil should possibly > > also be avoided. > > > > Robert > > > > ATFE <ATFE%40>, " Claudia " > > <claudia1027@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hello Everybody. > > > > > > I been part of this group for more than two years , and I find this > > > group one of the most accurate on the web. > > > > > > I have a question for you all, I am very interested to find out about > > > the EO and pregnancy. I know you have to be very conscious to recommend > > > any EO especially the first trimester of pregnancy, but I would love to > > > know more about why. I been reading a lot of websites and articles about > > > it, but I would love to now more. > > > > > > Can I find a list of EO that you can not use when you are pregnant? > > > Can they be harmful when you put that in creams, diluted in water to > > > take a bath, diffuser etc? > > > > > > It make sound very basic, but I think is a very important matter. > > > > > > Thank you again for all you information and wish all of you a wonderful > > > 2010!!! > > > > > > Claudia Schlebach > > > > > > http://claudiaschlebach.swissjust-usa.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx > > > <http://claudiaschlebach.swissjust-usa.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx> > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 *Chuckle. I'm sure Elizabeth would be aghast to know that she is teaching hogwash. There were times when we questioned how up to date some data was. As Robert suggested, there is a need to " politely " ask where she found her information, and I usually never have a problem with doing that, though I usually have to temper my bluntness. I'm so used to her oils that I believe I used an incorrect name. Elizabeth Jones is the head of the school. Larry Jones, her husband, is co owner of Elizabeth Van Buren oils, and founder of Spectrix Labs. He does all the GC/MS. As stated in a previous email, www.cobha.org We all come from different backgrounds. Many have walked the path far longer than I, and I know where I stand in the arena. newbie that I am. There is so much to learn. Lynn * On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Martin <aromamedical wrote: > > > I do not know what school " certified " you, but they are certainly teaching > hogwash. Many of the oils you list are permitted food flavours and commonly > used in thousands of foods. The list is typical of the fantasies in > aromatherapy books that have been around for years. > > As Robert says, everything depends on how used, volume, methods, etc. If we > are talkng about their use in diffusers or diluted in aromatherapy massage, > there is not a shred of sound evidence that most of these could be harmful > during pregnancy. > > Martin Watt > http://www.aromamedical.com > > ATFE <ATFE%40>, Lynn <mrningdw > wrote: > > > > I am a certified essential oil therapist, and these are the oils to avoid > > during pregnancy. > > > > Aniseed (Pimpinella anisum), Basil (Ocimum basilicum), Birch (Betula > alba), > > Cedarwood (Cedrus atlantica & Juniperus virginiana), Clary sage (Salvia > > sciarea), Cypress (Cupressus semperv'irens), Fennel (Foeniculum vulgare), > > Hyssop (Hyssopus officinalls), Jasmine (Jasminum grandiflorum), Juniper > > (Juniperus communis), Sweet Marjoram (Origanum marjorana), Myrrh > (Commiphora > > myrrha), Peppermint (Mentha piperita), Parsley (Petroselinum sativum), > > Rosemary (Rosernarinus officinalis), Sage (Salvia officinalis), Tarragon > > (Artemisia dracunculus), Thyme (Thymus vulgaris) > > > > Chamomile, lavender, geranium and rose can be used during the first three > > months. > > > > That's my list. > > > > Lynn > > in CA. > > newbie on the list > > > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 10:55 AM, tisserand < > > rtisserand wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Claudia, > > > > > > This is a tough question to answer! My take on it is that there are two > > > considerations. Firstly, the total amount of essential oil used and > > > secondly, which oils to avoid. > > > > > > The answer to the first question can be no more than a " best guess " as > > > there is not enough information to be specific. To take one example, > > > 1,8-cineole, the main constituent of eucalyptus oil, is readily > absorbed by > > > humans through either inhalation or dermal application, and it also > readily > > > passes from the mother's blood into the placenta. Animal data suggests > that > > > it is not fetotoxic. However, there is little information on possible > > > fetotoxic/neurotoxic effects of essential oil constituents in general, > so > > > minimal amounts are recommended. I would interpret that as 1% or 2% in > a > > > massage oil, no long-term inhalation (i.e. vaporizing oils for hours) > and > > > keeping steam inhalation to about 15 minutes. Remember, every type of > > > toxicity is dose-dependent. > > > > > > As for which oils to avoid (throughout pregnancy) any aromatherapist > you > > > talk to will give you a different list, and some oils should be avoided > or > > > used with care anyway, because they are generally toxic (eg > pennyroyal). I > > > suggest avoiding completely these oils, for the reason that they can be > > > fetotoxic, or contain significant quantities of constituents that can > be > > > fetotoxic: Daucus carota seed, Salvia officinalis leaf, Petroselinum > crispum > > > seed, Petroselinum crispum leaf, Anethum sowa seed, Salvia > lavandulifolia > > > leaf, Curcuma zedoaria rhizome, Artemisia absinthium leaf and Juniperus > > > sabina leaf. These oils could be reproductively toxic, even when used > in the > > > minimal quantities suggested above. Ruta graveolens leaf oil should > possibly > > > also be avoided. > > > > > > Robert > > > > > > ATFE <ATFE%40> <ATFE% > 40>, " Claudia " > > > > <claudia1027@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Everybody. > > > > > > > > I been part of this group for more than two years , and I find this > > > > group one of the most accurate on the web. > > > > > > > > I have a question for you all, I am very interested to find out about > > > > the EO and pregnancy. I know you have to be very conscious to > recommend > > > > any EO especially the first trimester of pregnancy, but I would love > to > > > > know more about why. I been reading a lot of websites and articles > about > > > > it, but I would love to now more. > > > > > > > > Can I find a list of EO that you can not use when you are pregnant? > > > > Can they be harmful when you put that in creams, diluted in water to > > > > take a bath, diffuser etc? > > > > > > > > It make sound very basic, but I think is a very important matter. > > > > > > > > Thank you again for all you information and wish all of you a > wonderful > > > > 2010!!! > > > > > > > > Claudia Schlebach > > > > > > > > http://claudiaschlebach.swissjust-usa.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx > > > > <http://claudiaschlebach.swissjust-usa.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Lynn this is very helpful, thanks sugar Blessings Email: sugarsyl71 Windows Instant messenger(no emails pleas): sugarsyl Skype: Twilight.Angel1 - Lynn ATFE Monday, January 18, 2010 11:50 AM Re: EO and pregnancy. I am a certified essential oil therapist, and these are the oils to avoid during pregnancy. Aniseed (Pimpinella anisum), Basil (Ocimum basilicum), Birch (Betula alba), Cedarwood (Cedrus atlantica & Juniperus virginiana), Clary sage (Salvia sciarea), Cypress (Cupressus semperv'irens), Fennel (Foeniculum vulgare), Hyssop (Hyssopus officinalls), Jasmine (Jasminum grandiflorum), Juniper (Juniperus communis), Sweet Marjoram (Origanum marjorana), Myrrh (Commiphora myrrha), Peppermint (Mentha piperita), Parsley (Petroselinum sativum), Rosemary (Rosernarinus officinalis), Sage (Salvia officinalis), Tarragon (Artemisia dracunculus), Thyme (Thymus vulgaris) Chamomile, lavender, geranium and rose can be used during the first three months. That's my list. Lynn in CA. newbie on the list On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 10:55 AM, tisserand < rtisserand wrote: > > > Hi Claudia, > > This is a tough question to answer! My take on it is that there are two > considerations. Firstly, the total amount of essential oil used and > secondly, which oils to avoid. > > The answer to the first question can be no more than a " best guess " as > there is not enough information to be specific. To take one example, > 1,8-cineole, the main constituent of eucalyptus oil, is readily absorbed by > humans through either inhalation or dermal application, and it also readily > passes from the mother's blood into the placenta. Animal data suggests that > it is not fetotoxic. However, there is little information on possible > fetotoxic/neurotoxic effects of essential oil constituents in general, so > minimal amounts are recommended. I would interpret that as 1% or 2% in a > massage oil, no long-term inhalation (i.e. vaporizing oils for hours) and > keeping steam inhalation to about 15 minutes. Remember, every type of > toxicity is dose-dependent. > > As for which oils to avoid (throughout pregnancy) any aromatherapist you > talk to will give you a different list, and some oils should be avoided or > used with care anyway, because they are generally toxic (eg pennyroyal). I > suggest avoiding completely these oils, for the reason that they can be > fetotoxic, or contain significant quantities of constituents that can be > fetotoxic: Daucus carota seed, Salvia officinalis leaf, Petroselinum crispum > seed, Petroselinum crispum leaf, Anethum sowa seed, Salvia lavandulifolia > leaf, Curcuma zedoaria rhizome, Artemisia absinthium leaf and Juniperus > sabina leaf. These oils could be reproductively toxic, even when used in the > minimal quantities suggested above. Ruta graveolens leaf oil should possibly > also be avoided. > > Robert > > ATFE <ATFE%40>, " Claudia " > <claudia1027 wrote: > > > > > > Hello Everybody. > > > > I been part of this group for more than two years , and I find this > > group one of the most accurate on the web. > > > > I have a question for you all, I am very interested to find out about > > the EO and pregnancy. I know you have to be very conscious to recommend > > any EO especially the first trimester of pregnancy, but I would love to > > know more about why. I been reading a lot of websites and articles about > > it, but I would love to now more. > > > > Can I find a list of EO that you can not use when you are pregnant? > > Can they be harmful when you put that in creams, diluted in water to > > take a bath, diffuser etc? > > > > It make sound very basic, but I think is a very important matter. > > > > Thank you again for all you information and wish all of you a wonderful > > 2010!!! > > > > Claudia Schlebach > > > > http://claudiaschlebach.swissjust-usa.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx > > <http://claudiaschlebach.swissjust-usa.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx> > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 >there is a need to " politely " ask where she found her information, I do not believe in being polite about people who make money from others by teaching grossly incorrect information. This trade is packed to bursting with wrong and highly misleading information that I have been pointing out for many years. I do not care how nice, charming etc. a teacher is, if they are giving out information that is wrong then they are not doing their job. I am happy for anyone to challenge what I say and debate it. Problem is most of the leading teachers in this trade will not face their lack of real knowledge being challenged. Martin Watt ATFE , Lynn <mrningdw wrote: > > *Chuckle. I'm sure Elizabeth would be aghast to know that she is teaching > hogwash. There were times when we questioned how up to date some data was. > As Robert suggested, there is a need to " politely " ask where she found her > information, and I usually never have a problem with doing that, though I > usually have to temper my bluntness. > > I'm so used to her oils that I believe I used an incorrect name. Elizabeth > Jones is the head of the school. Larry Jones, her husband, is co owner of > Elizabeth Van Buren oils, and founder of Spectrix Labs. He does all the > GC/MS. As stated in a previous email, www.cobha.org > > We all come from different backgrounds. Many have walked the path far > longer than I, and I know where I stand in the arena. newbie that I am. > > There is so much to learn. > > Lynn > > > * > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Martin <aromamedical wrote: > > > > > > > I do not know what school " certified " you, but they are certainly teaching > > hogwash. Many of the oils you list are permitted food flavours and commonly > > used in thousands of foods. The list is typical of the fantasies in > > aromatherapy books that have been around for years. > > > > As Robert says, everything depends on how used, volume, methods, etc. If we > > are talkng about their use in diffusers or diluted in aromatherapy massage, > > there is not a shred of sound evidence that most of these could be harmful > > during pregnancy. > > > > Martin Watt > > http://www.aromamedical.com > > > > ATFE <ATFE%40>, Lynn <mrningdw@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I am a certified essential oil therapist, and these are the oils to avoid > > > during pregnancy. > > > > > > Aniseed (Pimpinella anisum), Basil (Ocimum basilicum), Birch (Betula > > alba), > > > Cedarwood (Cedrus atlantica & Juniperus virginiana), Clary sage (Salvia > > > sciarea), Cypress (Cupressus semperv'irens), Fennel (Foeniculum vulgare), > > > Hyssop (Hyssopus officinalls), Jasmine (Jasminum grandiflorum), Juniper > > > (Juniperus communis), Sweet Marjoram (Origanum marjorana), Myrrh > > (Commiphora > > > myrrha), Peppermint (Mentha piperita), Parsley (Petroselinum sativum), > > > Rosemary (Rosernarinus officinalis), Sage (Salvia officinalis), Tarragon > > > (Artemisia dracunculus), Thyme (Thymus vulgaris) > > > > > > Chamomile, lavender, geranium and rose can be used during the first three > > > months. > > > > > > That's my list. > > > > > > Lynn > > > in CA. > > > newbie on the list > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 10:55 AM, tisserand@ < > > > rtisserand@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Claudia, > > > > > > > > This is a tough question to answer! My take on it is that there are two > > > > considerations. Firstly, the total amount of essential oil used and > > > > secondly, which oils to avoid. > > > > > > > > The answer to the first question can be no more than a " best guess " as > > > > there is not enough information to be specific. To take one example, > > > > 1,8-cineole, the main constituent of eucalyptus oil, is readily > > absorbed by > > > > humans through either inhalation or dermal application, and it also > > readily > > > > passes from the mother's blood into the placenta. Animal data suggests > > that > > > > it is not fetotoxic. However, there is little information on possible > > > > fetotoxic/neurotoxic effects of essential oil constituents in general, > > so > > > > minimal amounts are recommended. I would interpret that as 1% or 2% in > > a > > > > massage oil, no long-term inhalation (i.e. vaporizing oils for hours) > > and > > > > keeping steam inhalation to about 15 minutes. Remember, every type of > > > > toxicity is dose-dependent. > > > > > > > > As for which oils to avoid (throughout pregnancy) any aromatherapist > > you > > > > talk to will give you a different list, and some oils should be avoided > > or > > > > used with care anyway, because they are generally toxic (eg > > pennyroyal). I > > > > suggest avoiding completely these oils, for the reason that they can be > > > > fetotoxic, or contain significant quantities of constituents that can > > be > > > > fetotoxic: Daucus carota seed, Salvia officinalis leaf, Petroselinum > > crispum > > > > seed, Petroselinum crispum leaf, Anethum sowa seed, Salvia > > lavandulifolia > > > > leaf, Curcuma zedoaria rhizome, Artemisia absinthium leaf and Juniperus > > > > sabina leaf. These oils could be reproductively toxic, even when used > > in the > > > > minimal quantities suggested above. Ruta graveolens leaf oil should > > possibly > > > > also be avoided. > > > > > > > > Robert > > > > > > > > ATFE <ATFE%40> <ATFE% > > 40>, " Claudia " > > > > > > <claudia1027@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Everybody. > > > > > > > > > > I been part of this group for more than two years , and I find this > > > > > group one of the most accurate on the web. > > > > > > > > > > I have a question for you all, I am very interested to find out about > > > > > the EO and pregnancy. I know you have to be very conscious to > > recommend > > > > > any EO especially the first trimester of pregnancy, but I would love > > to > > > > > know more about why. I been reading a lot of websites and articles > > about > > > > > it, but I would love to now more. > > > > > > > > > > Can I find a list of EO that you can not use when you are pregnant? > > > > > Can they be harmful when you put that in creams, diluted in water to > > > > > take a bath, diffuser etc? > > > > > > > > > > It make sound very basic, but I think is a very important matter. > > > > > > > > > > Thank you again for all you information and wish all of you a > > wonderful > > > > > 2010!!! > > > > > > > > > > Claudia Schlebach > > > > > > > > > > http://claudiaschlebach.swissjust-usa.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx > > > > > <http://claudiaschlebach.swissjust-usa.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Hello Everybody. First of all I would like to thank Robert, Lynn, Martin Butch, for all the incredible information. Each one of you have a valid point of view, and I am very impressed for the overwhelming response. I know is a very difficult subject and what I can take of all of it, is that we have to be cautious, but not scare people telling them about the DANGERS HIDING IN EO. Thank you very much to all of you again and if something else about this subject, I would love to know more about it Best regardsClaudia ATFE , " Martin " <aromamedical wrote: > > >there is a need to " politely " ask where she found her information, > > I do not believe in being polite about people who make money from others by teaching grossly incorrect information. This trade is packed to bursting with wrong and highly misleading information that I have been pointing out for many years. I do not care how nice, charming etc. a teacher is, if they are giving out information that is wrong then they are not doing their job. I am happy for anyone to challenge what I say and debate it. Problem is most of the leading teachers in this trade will not face their lack of real knowledge being challenged. > > Martin Watt > > ATFE , Lynn mrningdw@ wrote: > > > > *Chuckle. I'm sure Elizabeth would be aghast to know that she is teaching > > hogwash. There were times when we questioned how up to date some data was. > > As Robert suggested, there is a need to " politely " ask where she found her > > information, and I usually never have a problem with doing that, though I > > usually have to temper my bluntness. > > > > I'm so used to her oils that I believe I used an incorrect name. Elizabeth > > Jones is the head of the school. Larry Jones, her husband, is co owner of > > Elizabeth Van Buren oils, and founder of Spectrix Labs. He does all the > > GC/MS. As stated in a previous email, www.cobha.org > > > > We all come from different backgrounds. Many have walked the path far > > longer than I, and I know where I stand in the arena. newbie that I am. > > > > There is so much to learn. > > > > Lynn > > > > > > * > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Martin aromamedical@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know what school " certified " you, but they are certainly teaching > > > hogwash. Many of the oils you list are permitted food flavours and commonly > > > used in thousands of foods. The list is typical of the fantasies in > > > aromatherapy books that have been around for years. > > > > > > As Robert says, everything depends on how used, volume, methods, etc. If we > > > are talkng about their use in diffusers or diluted in aromatherapy massage, > > > there is not a shred of sound evidence that most of these could be harmful > > > during pregnancy. > > > > > > Martin Watt > > > http://www.aromamedical.com > > > > > > ATFE <ATFE%40>, Lynn <mrningdw@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I am a certified essential oil therapist, and these are the oils to avoid > > > > during pregnancy. > > > > > > > > Aniseed (Pimpinella anisum), Basil (Ocimum basilicum), Birch (Betula > > > alba), > > > > Cedarwood (Cedrus atlantica & Juniperus virginiana), Clary sage (Salvia > > > > sciarea), Cypress (Cupressus semperv'irens), Fennel (Foeniculum vulgare), > > > > Hyssop (Hyssopus officinalls), Jasmine (Jasminum grandiflorum), Juniper > > > > (Juniperus communis), Sweet Marjoram (Origanum marjorana), Myrrh > > > (Commiphora > > > > myrrha), Peppermint (Mentha piperita), Parsley (Petroselinum sativum), > > > > Rosemary (Rosernarinus officinalis), Sage (Salvia officinalis), Tarragon > > > > (Artemisia dracunculus), Thyme (Thymus vulgaris) > > > > > > > > Chamomile, lavender, geranium and rose can be used during the first three > > > > months. > > > > > > > > That's my list. > > > > > > > > Lynn > > > > in CA. > > > > newbie on the list > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 10:55 AM, tisserand@ < > > > > rtisserand@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Claudia, > > > > > > > > > > This is a tough question to answer! My take on it is that there are two > > > > > considerations. Firstly, the total amount of essential oil used and > > > > > secondly, which oils to avoid. > > > > > > > > > > The answer to the first question can be no more than a " best guess " as > > > > > there is not enough information to be specific. To take one example, > > > > > 1,8-cineole, the main constituent of eucalyptus oil, is readily > > > absorbed by > > > > > humans through either inhalation or dermal application, and it also > > > readily > > > > > passes from the mother's blood into the placenta. Animal data suggests > > > that > > > > > it is not fetotoxic. However, there is little information on possible > > > > > fetotoxic/neurotoxic effects of essential oil constituents in general, > > > so > > > > > minimal amounts are recommended. I would interpret that as 1% or 2% in > > > a > > > > > massage oil, no long-term inhalation (i.e. vaporizing oils for hours) > > > and > > > > > keeping steam inhalation to about 15 minutes. Remember, every type of > > > > > toxicity is dose-dependent. > > > > > > > > > > As for which oils to avoid (throughout pregnancy) any aromatherapist > > > you > > > > > talk to will give you a different list, and some oils should be avoided > > > or > > > > > used with care anyway, because they are generally toxic (eg > > > pennyroyal). I > > > > > suggest avoiding completely these oils, for the reason that they can be > > > > > fetotoxic, or contain significant quantities of constituents that can > > > be > > > > > fetotoxic: Daucus carota seed, Salvia officinalis leaf, Petroselinum > > > crispum > > > > > seed, Petroselinum crispum leaf, Anethum sowa seed, Salvia > > > lavandulifolia > > > > > leaf, Curcuma zedoaria rhizome, Artemisia absinthium leaf and Juniperus > > > > > sabina leaf. These oils could be reproductively toxic, even when used > > > in the > > > > > minimal quantities suggested above. Ruta graveolens leaf oil should > > > possibly > > > > > also be avoided. > > > > > > > > > > Robert > > > > > > > > > > ATFE <ATFE%40> <ATFE% > > > 40>, " Claudia " > > > > > > > > <claudia1027@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Everybody. > > > > > > > > > > > > I been part of this group for more than two years , and I find this > > > > > > group one of the most accurate on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a question for you all, I am very interested to find out about > > > > > > the EO and pregnancy. I know you have to be very conscious to > > > recommend > > > > > > any EO especially the first trimester of pregnancy, but I would love > > > to > > > > > > know more about why. I been reading a lot of websites and articles > > > about > > > > > > it, but I would love to now more. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can I find a list of EO that you can not use when you are pregnant? > > > > > > Can they be harmful when you put that in creams, diluted in water to > > > > > > take a bath, diffuser etc? > > > > > > > > > > > > It make sound very basic, but I think is a very important matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you again for all you information and wish all of you a > > > wonderful > > > > > > 2010!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Claudia Schlebach > > > > > > > > > > > > http://claudiaschlebach.swissjust-usa.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx > > > > > > <http://claudiaschlebach.swissjust-usa.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 I would be curious to know why someone teaching something would give out a list without supporting, researched documentation explaining why, or at the very least give reasons through annectodal information as to WHY the items are on the list. To me that's now teaching anything-sorry, I'm just a big believer in understanding the " why " s of things. Susan ATFE , Lynn <mrningdw wrote: > > *Chuckle. I'm sure Elizabeth would be aghast to know that she is teaching > hogwash. There were times when we questioned how up to date some data was. > As Robert suggested, there is a need to " politely " ask where she found her > information, and I usually never have a problem with doing that, though I > usually have to temper my bluntness. > > I'm so used to her oils that I believe I used an incorrect name. Elizabeth > Jones is the head of the school. Larry Jones, her husband, is co owner of > Elizabeth Van Buren oils, and founder of Spectrix Labs. He does all the > GC/MS. As stated in a previous email, www.cobha.org > > We all come from different backgrounds. Many have walked the path far > longer than I, and I know where I stand in the arena. newbie that I am. > > There is so much to learn. > > Lynn > > > * > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Martin <aromamedical wrote: > > > > > > > I do not know what school " certified " you, but they are certainly teaching > > hogwash. Many of the oils you list are permitted food flavours and commonly > > used in thousands of foods. The list is typical of the fantasies in > > aromatherapy books that have been around for years. > > > > As Robert says, everything depends on how used, volume, methods, etc. If we > > are talkng about their use in diffusers or diluted in aromatherapy massage, > > there is not a shred of sound evidence that most of these could be harmful > > during pregnancy. > > > > Martin Watt > > http://www.aromamedical.com > > > > ATFE <ATFE%40>, Lynn <mrningdw@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I am a certified essential oil therapist, and these are the oils to avoid > > > during pregnancy. > > > > > > Aniseed (Pimpinella anisum), Basil (Ocimum basilicum), Birch (Betula > > alba), > > > Cedarwood (Cedrus atlantica & Juniperus virginiana), Clary sage (Salvia > > > sciarea), Cypress (Cupressus semperv'irens), Fennel (Foeniculum vulgare), > > > Hyssop (Hyssopus officinalls), Jasmine (Jasminum grandiflorum), Juniper > > > (Juniperus communis), Sweet Marjoram (Origanum marjorana), Myrrh > > (Commiphora > > > myrrha), Peppermint (Mentha piperita), Parsley (Petroselinum sativum), > > > Rosemary (Rosernarinus officinalis), Sage (Salvia officinalis), Tarragon > > > (Artemisia dracunculus), Thyme (Thymus vulgaris) > > > > > > Chamomile, lavender, geranium and rose can be used during the first three > > > months. > > > > > > That's my list. > > > > > > Lynn > > > in CA. > > > newbie on the list > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 10:55 AM, tisserand@ < > > > rtisserand@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Claudia, > > > > > > > > This is a tough question to answer! My take on it is that there are two > > > > considerations. Firstly, the total amount of essential oil used and > > > > secondly, which oils to avoid. > > > > > > > > The answer to the first question can be no more than a " best guess " as > > > > there is not enough information to be specific. To take one example, > > > > 1,8-cineole, the main constituent of eucalyptus oil, is readily > > absorbed by > > > > humans through either inhalation or dermal application, and it also > > readily > > > > passes from the mother's blood into the placenta. Animal data suggests > > that > > > > it is not fetotoxic. However, there is little information on possible > > > > fetotoxic/neurotoxic effects of essential oil constituents in general, > > so > > > > minimal amounts are recommended. I would interpret that as 1% or 2% in > > a > > > > massage oil, no long-term inhalation (i.e. vaporizing oils for hours) > > and > > > > keeping steam inhalation to about 15 minutes. Remember, every type of > > > > toxicity is dose-dependent. > > > > > > > > As for which oils to avoid (throughout pregnancy) any aromatherapist > > you > > > > talk to will give you a different list, and some oils should be avoided > > or > > > > used with care anyway, because they are generally toxic (eg > > pennyroyal). I > > > > suggest avoiding completely these oils, for the reason that they can be > > > > fetotoxic, or contain significant quantities of constituents that can > > be > > > > fetotoxic: Daucus carota seed, Salvia officinalis leaf, Petroselinum > > crispum > > > > seed, Petroselinum crispum leaf, Anethum sowa seed, Salvia > > lavandulifolia > > > > leaf, Curcuma zedoaria rhizome, Artemisia absinthium leaf and Juniperus > > > > sabina leaf. These oils could be reproductively toxic, even when used > > in the > > > > minimal quantities suggested above. Ruta graveolens leaf oil should > > possibly > > > > also be avoided. > > > > > > > > Robert > > > > > > > > ATFE <ATFE%40> <ATFE% > > 40>, " Claudia " > > > > > > <claudia1027@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Everybody. > > > > > > > > > > I been part of this group for more than two years , and I find this > > > > > group one of the most accurate on the web. > > > > > > > > > > I have a question for you all, I am very interested to find out about > > > > > the EO and pregnancy. I know you have to be very conscious to > > recommend > > > > > any EO especially the first trimester of pregnancy, but I would love > > to > > > > > know more about why. I been reading a lot of websites and articles > > about > > > > > it, but I would love to now more. > > > > > > > > > > Can I find a list of EO that you can not use when you are pregnant? > > > > > Can they be harmful when you put that in creams, diluted in water to > > > > > take a bath, diffuser etc? > > > > > > > > > > It make sound very basic, but I think is a very important matter. > > > > > > > > > > Thank you again for all you information and wish all of you a > > wonderful > > > > > 2010!!! > > > > > > > > > > Claudia Schlebach > > > > > > > > > > http://claudiaschlebach.swissjust-usa.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx > > > > > <http://claudiaschlebach.swissjust-usa.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 Susan said: >I would be curious to know why someone teaching something would give >out a list without supporting, researched documentation explaining >why, There is a simple answer to that. Why spend time and money on researched evidence, when you can set up a school and teach garbage and get paid for doing it. That position represents the huge majority of aromatherapy schools around the world. Especially the ones approved by trade associations. I know this because i either have, or have seen, copies of course notes from most of the supposed 'leading' schools. They made themselves 'leading' by lots of publicity and hype and by charismatic teachers. Young Living are a great example of making money by being confidence tricksters, but there are numerous others in a smaller way. There are now even Universities teaching aromatherapy. When their knowledge base is challenged they do not want to know. I challenged one of the nursing Universities in the USA over the crap on their website, but they never replied. That site carry very dangerous information on essential oils and Joe public assume it will be accurate. Far from it. Martin ATFE , " SusanP " <ripple95 wrote: > > I would be curious to know why someone teaching something would give out a list without supporting, researched documentation explaining why, or at the very least give reasons through annectodal information as to WHY the items are on the list. To me that's now teaching anything-sorry, I'm just a big believer in understanding the " why " s of things. Susan > > > > ATFE , Lynn <mrningdw@> wrote: > > > > *Chuckle. I'm sure Elizabeth would be aghast to know that she is teaching > > hogwash. There were times when we questioned how up to date some data was. > > As Robert suggested, there is a need to " politely " ask where she found her > > information, and I usually never have a problem with doing that, though I > > usually have to temper my bluntness. > > > > I'm so used to her oils that I believe I used an incorrect name. Elizabeth > > Jones is the head of the school. Larry Jones, her husband, is co owner of > > Elizabeth Van Buren oils, and founder of Spectrix Labs. He does all the > > GC/MS. As stated in a previous email, www.cobha.org > > > > We all come from different backgrounds. Many have walked the path far > > longer than I, and I know where I stand in the arena. newbie that I am. > > > > There is so much to learn. > > > > Lynn > > > > > > * > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Martin <aromamedical@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I do not know what school " certified " you, but they are certainly teaching > > > hogwash. Many of the oils you list are permitted food flavours and commonly > > > used in thousands of foods. The list is typical of the fantasies in > > > aromatherapy books that have been around for years. > > > > > > As Robert says, everything depends on how used, volume, methods, etc. If we > > > are talkng about their use in diffusers or diluted in aromatherapy massage, > > > there is not a shred of sound evidence that most of these could be harmful > > > during pregnancy. > > > > > > Martin Watt > > > http://www.aromamedical.com > > > > > > ATFE <ATFE%40>, Lynn <mrningdw@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I am a certified essential oil therapist, and these are the oils to avoid > > > > during pregnancy. > > > > > > > > Aniseed (Pimpinella anisum), Basil (Ocimum basilicum), Birch (Betula > > > alba), > > > > Cedarwood (Cedrus atlantica & Juniperus virginiana), Clary sage (Salvia > > > > sciarea), Cypress (Cupressus semperv'irens), Fennel (Foeniculum vulgare), > > > > Hyssop (Hyssopus officinalls), Jasmine (Jasminum grandiflorum), Juniper > > > > (Juniperus communis), Sweet Marjoram (Origanum marjorana), Myrrh > > > (Commiphora > > > > myrrha), Peppermint (Mentha piperita), Parsley (Petroselinum sativum), > > > > Rosemary (Rosernarinus officinalis), Sage (Salvia officinalis), Tarragon > > > > (Artemisia dracunculus), Thyme (Thymus vulgaris) > > > > > > > > Chamomile, lavender, geranium and rose can be used during the first three > > > > months. > > > > > > > > That's my list. > > > > > > > > Lynn > > > > in CA. > > > > newbie on the list > > > > > > > > On Mon, Jan 18, 2010 at 10:55 AM, tisserand@ < > > > > rtisserand@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Claudia, > > > > > > > > > > This is a tough question to answer! My take on it is that there are two > > > > > considerations. Firstly, the total amount of essential oil used and > > > > > secondly, which oils to avoid. > > > > > > > > > > The answer to the first question can be no more than a " best guess " as > > > > > there is not enough information to be specific. To take one example, > > > > > 1,8-cineole, the main constituent of eucalyptus oil, is readily > > > absorbed by > > > > > humans through either inhalation or dermal application, and it also > > > readily > > > > > passes from the mother's blood into the placenta. Animal data suggests > > > that > > > > > it is not fetotoxic. However, there is little information on possible > > > > > fetotoxic/neurotoxic effects of essential oil constituents in general, > > > so > > > > > minimal amounts are recommended. I would interpret that as 1% or 2% in > > > a > > > > > massage oil, no long-term inhalation (i.e. vaporizing oils for hours) > > > and > > > > > keeping steam inhalation to about 15 minutes. Remember, every type of > > > > > toxicity is dose-dependent. > > > > > > > > > > As for which oils to avoid (throughout pregnancy) any aromatherapist > > > you > > > > > talk to will give you a different list, and some oils should be avoided > > > or > > > > > used with care anyway, because they are generally toxic (eg > > > pennyroyal). I > > > > > suggest avoiding completely these oils, for the reason that they can be > > > > > fetotoxic, or contain significant quantities of constituents that can > > > be > > > > > fetotoxic: Daucus carota seed, Salvia officinalis leaf, Petroselinum > > > crispum > > > > > seed, Petroselinum crispum leaf, Anethum sowa seed, Salvia > > > lavandulifolia > > > > > leaf, Curcuma zedoaria rhizome, Artemisia absinthium leaf and Juniperus > > > > > sabina leaf. These oils could be reproductively toxic, even when used > > > in the > > > > > minimal quantities suggested above. Ruta graveolens leaf oil should > > > possibly > > > > > also be avoided. > > > > > > > > > > Robert > > > > > > > > > > ATFE <ATFE%40> <ATFE% > > > 40>, " Claudia " > > > > > > > > <claudia1027@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Everybody. > > > > > > > > > > > > I been part of this group for more than two years , and I find this > > > > > > group one of the most accurate on the web. > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a question for you all, I am very interested to find out about > > > > > > the EO and pregnancy. I know you have to be very conscious to > > > recommend > > > > > > any EO especially the first trimester of pregnancy, but I would love > > > to > > > > > > know more about why. I been reading a lot of websites and articles > > > about > > > > > > it, but I would love to now more. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can I find a list of EO that you can not use when you are pregnant? > > > > > > Can they be harmful when you put that in creams, diluted in water to > > > > > > take a bath, diffuser etc? > > > > > > > > > > > > It make sound very basic, but I think is a very important matter. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you again for all you information and wish all of you a > > > wonderful > > > > > > 2010!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > Claudia Schlebach > > > > > > > > > > > > http://claudiaschlebach.swissjust-usa.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx > > > > > > <http://claudiaschlebach.swissjust-usa.com/Pages/HomePage.aspx> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2010 Report Share Posted January 20, 2010 THere is an important principle to follow when caring for pregnant women: Women's bodies work well, all by themselves, to grow babies that they can deliver all by themselves! So, the key is for each woman to eat foods rich in protein, complex carbs, and vitamins and minerals. NO junk or waste foods. If women are eating a variety of fresh foods daily, they'll have all the nutrients they need. If they exercise well - brisk walking, " no-bounce " aerobics, much bending and stretching, their bodies will be in shape for labor. Mostly what women need is someone to tell them the above: Their bodies are not just defective men's bodies, they're designed to grow and push out babies, and they are strong. Unfortunately many doctors and most books (What to Expect When You're Expecting) are notorious for scaring the heck out of women. There is a reason the US has a 30% + rate of cesarian deliveries, and it isn't that American women have suddenly lost the ability to have babies, it is that over the past century, they've been told that labor is horrible and with the doctor's help, women may survive. Doubt me? Read the obstetric texts, like Williams. If you have a pregnant client, if she is generally healthy, all she needs is a soothing bath (2 drops lavender in 1 tsp cream?), a regular massage with carrier oil, and lots of encouragement to soothe the culture-induced fear. A skilled midwife can help. Check mana.org or narm.org for lists of certified professional midwives. Certified nurse midwives are listed on their site. States also have lists of midwives licensed in the area. Trish Ross Midwives on Missions of Service www.globalmidwives.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Anecdotal evidence is not evidence. Anyone can provide anecdotal evidence for anything. Thus, the need for quality research or at least more than a " it worked for so-and-so " ... Until there is sufficient randomized controlled trials to support a hypothesis, at least there is need for a strong body of historical evidence and some good scientific basis for why it works. Tina Paxton, MS ATFE [ATFE ] On Behalf Of SusanP Tuesday, January 19, 2010 12:32 PM ATFE Re: EO and pregnancy. I would be curious to know why someone teaching something would give out a list without supporting, researched documentation explaining why, or at the very least give reasons through annectodal information as to WHY the items are on the list. To me that's now teaching anything-sorry, I'm just a big believer in understanding the " why " s of things. Susan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Hi Martin, Let's not forget that the purveyors of most of this misinformation brought it from across the pond where it originated, primarily in France and England. The problem is not specific just to the U.S., as you point out. Sadly, we can claim sole responsibility for the origination of all the multi-level marketing tricksters, so it probably makes us evenly culpable. When I was an active volunteer at NAHA, I (and a a few others) pressed to establish a peer-review committee for all journal articles, a good start for credible scientific veracity. I also encouraged establishing an arm for creating acceptable research protocols and documentation and even offered to secure initial grant funds for its inception, much like the American Botanical Council. One can only dream of the good position aromatherapy might be in had NAHA moved in that direction, now going on 20 years later. The perpetuation of what one might call 'bad' education out there also probably rests in the fact that when we had the NAHA revolt and exodus we were unsuccessful in getting them reformed or shut down, therefore, the general public here in the U.S. still looks to them as being the voice of aromatherapy. Guidelines for educators haven't changed at NAHA for years and I am unaware that your approved standing as an educator is dependent on continuing education as it is in other disciplines. Therefore, it is easy to be a lazy educator when you have no official taskmaster prodding you to further excellence. Even more difficult when you start out with 90% erroneous information, i.e., that associated with whole plant use in herbalism, which is a logical departure, but it is certainly time to move on. I'm probably in the crotchey curmudgeon category along with you at this point, Martin, but I wish some young enthusiasm would step up to shake the status quo and move aromatherapy to a higher artform. Be Well, Marcia Elston, Samara Botane/Nature Intelligence http://www.wingedseed.com http://www.wingedseed.blogspot.com http://www.aromaconnection.org " We make a living by what we get. We make a life by what we give. " - Winston Churchill ________________________________ ATFE [ATFE ] On Behalf Of Martin Wednesday, January 20, 2010 8:42 AM ATFE Re: EO and pregnancy. Susan said: >I would be curious to know why someone teaching something would give >out a list without supporting, researched documentation explaining >why, There is a simple answer to that. Why spend time and money on researched evidence, when you can set up a school and teach garbage and get paid for doing it. That position represents the huge majority of aromatherapy schools around the world. Especially the ones approved by trade associations. I know this because i either have, or have seen, copies of course notes from most of the supposed 'leading' schools. They made themselves 'leading' by lots of publicity and hype and by charismatic teachers. Young Living are a great example of making money by being confidence tricksters, but there are numerous others in a smaller way. There are now even Universities teaching aromatherapy. When their knowledge base is challenged they do not want to know. I challenged one of the nursing Universities in the USA over the crap on their website, but they never replied. That site carry very dangerous information on essential oils and Joe public assume it will be accurate. Far from it. Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 21, 2010 Report Share Posted January 21, 2010 Unfortunately, there are no large scale scientific studies in the area of essential oils or many other subjects in practice today which are being done based on usage and information passed down from generation to generation. That is where the problem lies in many forms of alternative therapies-many are not taken seriously because science hasn't stepped in to PROVE them. However, from what I gather, the person " teaching " the information to her class provided NO evidence to back up her claims whatsoever, whether it be scientific, historical usage or anectodal. Susan ATFE , " Tina Paxton " <Frecs wrote: > > Anecdotal evidence is not evidence. Anyone can provide anecdotal evidence > for anything. Thus, the need for quality research or at least more than a > " it worked for so-and-so " ... Until there is sufficient randomized controlled > trials to support a hypothesis, at least there is need for a strong body of > historical evidence and some good scientific basis for why it works. > > Tina Paxton, MS > > > ATFE [ATFE ] On Behalf Of SusanP > Tuesday, January 19, 2010 12:32 PM > ATFE > Re: EO and pregnancy. > > I would be curious to know why someone teaching something would give out a > list without supporting, researched documentation explaining why, or at the > very least give reasons through annectodal information as to WHY the items > are on the list. To me that's now teaching anything-sorry, I'm just a big > believer in understanding the " why " s of things. Susan > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2010 Report Share Posted January 23, 2010 ATFE , Lynn <mrningdw wrote: > > I am a certified essential oil therapist, and these are the oils to avoid during pregnancy.< Three questions...what does " certified essential oil therapist " mean? Are you licensed under another profession perhaps? Why? I mean those are pretty broad and strange recommendations; why Fennel or Peppermint for example? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 23, 2010 Report Share Posted January 23, 2010 Here is a link about the program...yeah, I know, AIA. It's an overview of the program. http://www.alliance-aromatherapists.org/aromatherapy_schools-collegebotanicalhea\ ling.htm *I came here to learn from what I consider the experts.* If any piece of my education is erroneous, then I welcome the correction. Thanks for helping..............Lynn On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 7:53 AM, SUSAN <sueapito wrote: > > > ATFE <ATFE%40>, Lynn <mrningdw > wrote: > > > > I am a certified essential oil therapist, and these are the oils to avoid > during pregnancy.< > > Three questions...what does " certified essential oil therapist " mean? > > Are you licensed under another profession perhaps? > > Why? I mean those are pretty broad and strange recommendations; why Fennel > or Peppermint for example? > > > -- I don't have a solution, but I admire the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2010 Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 Lynn, I wanted to clarify that I didn't intend to disparage AIA when I said all three orgs were working at dual or cross purposes. I, actually, am a founding member and think that they're coming along and they are pretty much in their formative years still. With a focus on clinical aromatherapy, they no doubt will examine and re-examine the educational standards they have adopted along as they grow and mature. However, I think that their educational standards now pretty much replicate what the original Steering Committee came up with way back in the day, adopted by NAHA and used for the ARC exam. NAHA, I've given up on. ARC has their own set of problems and maybe Stacey or someone else can enlighten you here if are really interested. Educational standards for aromatherapy should be thoroughly examined and updated. Corrercting misinformation that has now permeated (and multiplied exponentially) going on 20 years (more if you count across the pond) is a daunting task. I also know Elizabeth Jones and worked early on with her at NAHA years ago. She is a lovely woman and I do not know enough about her particular program to comment, but I agree with Martin that some of the aromatherapy she seems to have taught you should be re-examined, based on what you have posted here. I don't know if you feel comfortable bringing questions and concerns back to Elizabeth, but it is a thought. Perhaps students will eventually be teaching their teachers all over again as we progress forward. You will see that pregnancy and potential essential oil toxicity is complicated, as Robert, Martin and others have already pointed out. I agree that there is probably over-caution. Better than no caution, however. Be Well, Marcia Elston, Samara Botane/Nature Intelligence http://www.wingedseed.com <http://www.wingedseed.com/> http://www.wingedseed.blogspot.com <http://www.wingedseed.blogspot.com/> http://www.aromaconnection.org <http://www.aromaconnection.org/> " We make a living by what we get. We make a life by what we give. " - Winston Churchill _____ ATFE [ATFE ] On Behalf Of Lynn Saturday, January 23, 2010 2:49 PM ATFE Re: Re: EO and pregnancy. Here is a link about the program...yeah, I know, AIA. It's an overview of the program. http://www.alliance <http://www.alliance-aromatherapists.org/aromatherapy_schools-collegebotanic alhealing.htm> -aromatherapists.org/aromatherapy_schools-collegebotanicalhealing.htm *I came here to learn from what I consider the experts.* If any piece of my education is erroneous, then I welcome the correction. Thanks for helping..............Lynn On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 7:53 AM, SUSAN <sueapito (AT) (DOT) <sueapito%40> com> wrote: > > > ATFE (AT) (DOT) <ATFE%40> com <ATFE%40>, Lynn <mrningdw > wrote: > > > > I am a certified essential oil therapist, and these are the oils to avoid > during pregnancy.< > > Three questions...what does " certified essential oil therapist " mean? > > Are you licensed under another profession perhaps? > > Why? I mean those are pretty broad and strange recommendations; why Fennel > or Peppermint for example? > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 24, 2010 Report Share Posted January 24, 2010 From what I can recall, this organisation is just another aromatherapy outfit put together to gain students. Their web site gives no information on anything that one can judge the quality of what their teachers provide. I was also involved with trying to improve the standards of education provided by NAHA teachers many moons ago. I was appalled when I saw a copy of what it was proposed their teachers should provide. It included the same old tired aromatherapy trash that has been taught since this trade started. The leading teachers will not have their lack of knowledge on essential oils and their real uses challenged. I gave up trying to help such people years ago. >If any piece of my education is erroneous, then I welcome the >correction. Put some of it on this group and you may get answers. They may not be what you want to hear though. My long experience on these groups is that most aromatherapists prefer to live in a fairy tale world rather than face the facts of what is wrong with their training. Martin ATFE , Lynn <mrningdw wrote: > > Here is a link about the program...yeah, I know, AIA. It's an overview of > the program. > > http://www.alliance-aromatherapists.org/aromatherapy_schools-collegebotanicalhea\ ling.htm > > *I came here to learn from what I consider the experts.* If any piece of my > education is erroneous, then I welcome the correction. > > Thanks for helping..............Lynn > > > > On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 7:53 AM, SUSAN <sueapito wrote: > > > > > > > ATFE <ATFE%40>, Lynn <mrningdw@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I am a certified essential oil therapist, and these are the oils to avoid > > during pregnancy.< > > > > Three questions...what does " certified essential oil therapist " mean? > > > > Are you licensed under another profession perhaps? > > > > Why? I mean those are pretty broad and strange recommendations; why Fennel > > or Peppermint for example? > > > > > > > > > > -- > > I don't have a solution, but I admire the problem. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2010 Report Share Posted January 28, 2010 Wow! I would say that before jumping to conclusions about an organization, you either directly inquire or speak to some of its members. AIA is NOT an organisation that is " just another outfit put together to gain students " . AIA is not a school. It is a member organisation. I would invite you to learn more by speaking to its members and perhaps some of its members on the board before publicly writing it off as just another aromatherapy outfit. Lora Cantele ATFE , " Martin " <aromamedical wrote: > > From what I can recall, this organisation is just another aromatherapy outfit put together to gain students. Their web site gives no information on anything that one can judge the quality of what their teachers provide. I was also involved with trying to improve the standards of education provided by NAHA teachers many moons ago. I was appalled when I saw a copy of what it was proposed their teachers should provide. It included the same old tired aromatherapy trash that has been taught since this trade started. The leading teachers will not have their lack of knowledge on essential oils and their real uses challenged. I gave up trying to help such people years ago. > > >If any piece of my education is erroneous, then I welcome the >correction. > Put some of it on this group and you may get answers. They may not be what you want to hear though. My long experience on these groups is that most aromatherapists prefer to live in a fairy tale world rather than face the facts of what is wrong with their training. > > Martin > > ATFE , Lynn <mrningdw@> wrote: > > > > Here is a link about the program...yeah, I know, AIA. It's an overview of > > the program. > > > > http://www.alliance-aromatherapists.org/aromatherapy_schools-collegebotanicalhea\ ling.htm > > > > *I came here to learn from what I consider the experts.* If any piece of my > > education is erroneous, then I welcome the correction. > > > > Thanks for helping..............Lynn > > > > > > > > On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 7:53 AM, SUSAN <sueapito@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > ATFE <ATFE%40>, Lynn <mrningdw@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I am a certified essential oil therapist, and these are the oils to avoid > > > during pregnancy.< > > > > > > Three questions...what does " certified essential oil therapist " mean? > > > > > > Are you licensed under another profession perhaps? > > > > > > Why? I mean those are pretty broad and strange recommendations; why Fennel > > > or Peppermint for example? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > I don't have a solution, but I admire the problem. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 28, 2010 Report Share Posted January 28, 2010 Hi Marcia, While I appreciate you clarifying your position on AIA, I would like to share something with you and the group to set the record straight. <<I think that their (AIA) educational standards now pretty much replicate what the original Steering Committee came up with way back in the day, adopted by NAHA and used for the ARC exam.>> As one of the writers of the AIA Educational Guidelines, I can say that they are not a replication of what was done previously by NAHA or the ARC. The intent of the writing of the new guidelines was to elevate the education standards in America, as well as to be more " on par " with those in England and Australia where the educational requirements are higher (400-665 hrs). In those countries you either study and achieve certification at that level, or you cannot practice aromatherapy. Unlike here in the US where a level 1 course as approved by NAHA is 30 hours. The AIA standards are not only focused on the number of hours of study, but the SUNSTANCE as well. Level 1 AIA is 100 hours, Level 2 is 200 hours and Level 3 is 400 hours minimum, with additional requirements with regard to A & P and Research. The information posted on the AIA website is a very broad and general overview of the levels. Believe me, it goes way deeper than than and is very detailed. Schools may voluntarily submit their applications for recognition at these levels, but the process is long and detailed. One need only to look at the list of currently approved schools, as compared to the when the revised guidelines came out (1 year ago), to see just how many schools have been recognized at the higher curriculum standards. The AIA is currently working with schools that have submitted, but have not yet been recognized, in an effort to encourage more schools to " beef up " their curriculums. I am not sure how that can be construed as " replicating " what has been done by other organisations previously or to say that the only thing AIA is interested in gaining students. I realize you were not the person who made that latter of those statements, but I wanted to address that as well. <<I also know Elizabeth Jones and worked early on with her at NAHA years ago. She is a lovely woman and I do not know enough about her particular program to comment, but I agree with Martin that some of the aromatherapy she seems to have taught you should be re-examined,>> Elizabeth has a very good school. I truly believe that all schools should consistently update their curriculum to be current with new findings in aromatherapy. The AIA guidelines are a living document that will grow, as well as the expectations of the schools that wish to be recognized by the AIA. Only Elizabeth, her administration and students know what is contained in her curriculum, so it would not be fair for anyone else to make comment or speculation on it. Not to mention the fact that it could be damaging to her reputation. I'm sure that Elizabeth would appreciate direct inquiries as opposed to speculation on ATFE about her program. By the way, the listing that was posted for COHBA and discussed here on this ATFE forum recently is more than 1 year old and has not been on the AIA website since April 2009. To discuss it now as if it is current would be improper and misleading. Thank you Marcia for your continued support of the AIA! The organization is a good and strong one! Lora Cantele ATFE , " Marcia Elston " <Marcia wrote: > > Lynn, I wanted to clarify that I didn't intend to disparage AIA when I said > all three orgs were working at dual or cross purposes. I, actually, am a > founding member and think that they're coming along and they are pretty much > in their formative years still. With a focus on clinical aromatherapy, they > no doubt will examine and re-examine the educational standards they have > adopted along as they grow and mature. However, I think that their > educational standards now pretty much replicate what the original Steering > Committee came up with way back in the day, adopted by NAHA and used for the > ARC exam. NAHA, I've given up on. ARC has their own set of problems and > maybe Stacey or someone else can enlighten you here if are really > interested. Educational standards for aromatherapy should be thoroughly > examined and updated. Corrercting misinformation that has now permeated > (and multiplied exponentially) going on 20 years (more if you count across > the pond) is a daunting task. I also know Elizabeth Jones and worked early > on with her at NAHA years ago. She is a lovely woman and I do not know > enough about her particular program to comment, but I agree with Martin that > some of the aromatherapy she seems to have taught you should be re-examined, > based on what you have posted here. I don't know if you feel comfortable > bringing questions and concerns back to Elizabeth, but it is a thought. > Perhaps students will eventually be teaching their teachers all over again > as we progress forward. > > You will see that pregnancy and potential essential oil toxicity is > complicated, as Robert, Martin and others have already pointed out. I agree > that there is probably over-caution. Better than no caution, however. > > Be Well, > Marcia Elston, Samara Botane/Nature Intelligence > http://www.wingedseed.com <http://www.wingedseed.com/> > http://www.wingedseed.blogspot.com <http://www.wingedseed.blogspot.com/> > http://www.aromaconnection.org <http://www.aromaconnection.org/> > " We make a living by what we get. We make a life by what we give. " - Winston > Churchill > > _____ > > ATFE [ATFE ] On Behalf Of Lynn > Saturday, January 23, 2010 2:49 PM > ATFE > Re: Re: EO and pregnancy. > > > > > Here is a link about the program...yeah, I know, AIA. It's an overview of > the program. > > http://www.alliance > <http://www.alliance-aromatherapists.org/aromatherapy_schools-collegebotanic > alhealing.htm> > -aromatherapists.org/aromatherapy_schools-collegebotanicalhealing.htm > > *I came here to learn from what I consider the experts.* If any piece of my > education is erroneous, then I welcome the correction. > > Thanks for helping..............Lynn > > On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 7:53 AM, SUSAN <sueapito (AT) (DOT) > <sueapito%40> com> wrote: > > > > > > > ATFE (AT) (DOT) <ATFE%40> com > <ATFE%40>, Lynn <mrningdw@> > > wrote: > > > > > > I am a certified essential oil therapist, and these are the oils to > avoid > > during pregnancy.< > > > > Three questions...what does " certified essential oil therapist " mean? > > > > Are you licensed under another profession perhaps? > > > > Why? I mean those are pretty broad and strange recommendations; why Fennel > > or Peppermint for example? > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2010 Report Share Posted January 29, 2010 Number of hours of education has nothing at all to do with quality. I would dispute that standards in the UK are higher than America. The trade associations here continue teaching the junk straight out of the aromatherapy novels. For example, I have had their students contact me and have been horrified that their teachers have never given them any documented safety data, and much of what they are taught on the therapeutics is also straight out of aromatherapy books. The AIA procedures sound to me like the classic educational hogwash where hours, subjects, etc. take precedence over if the teachers know what they are talking about. I have enquired in the past about getting my correspondence course 'recognised' by a nursing organisation in the USA. I gave up because all they were interested in was a mountain of idiotic paperwork with nothing at all about the quality of education. That organisation included aromatherapists nurses. > Elizabeth has a very good school. Perhaps if you believe that, you can explain how it is that she teaches incorrect information over essential oils in pregnancy? Martin Watt ATFE , " anew_kid4us " <anew_kid4us wrote: > > > Hi Marcia, > > While I appreciate you clarifying your position on AIA, I would like to share something with you and the group to set the record straight. > > <<I think that their (AIA) educational standards now pretty much replicate what the original Steering Committee came up with way back in the day, adopted by NAHA and used for the ARC exam.>> > > As one of the writers of the AIA Educational Guidelines, I can say that they are not a replication of what was done previously by NAHA or the ARC. The intent of the writing of the new guidelines was to elevate the education standards in America, as well as to be more " on par " with those in England and Australia where the educational requirements are higher (400-665 hrs). In those countries you either study and achieve certification at that level, or you cannot practice aromatherapy. Unlike here in the US where a level 1 course as approved by NAHA is 30 hours. The AIA standards are not only focused on the number of hours of study, but the SUNSTANCE as well. Level 1 AIA is 100 hours, Level 2 is 200 hours and Level 3 is 400 hours minimum, with additional requirements with regard to A & P and Research. The information posted on the AIA website is a very broad and general overview of the levels. Believe me, it goes way deeper than than and is very detailed. > > Schools may voluntarily submit their applications for recognition at these levels, but the process is long and detailed. One need only to look at the list of currently approved schools, as compared to the when the revised guidelines came out (1 year ago), to see just how many schools have been recognized at the higher curriculum standards. The AIA is currently working with schools that have submitted, but have not yet been recognized, in an effort to encourage more schools to " beef up " their curriculums. I am not sure how that can be construed as " replicating " what has been done by other organisations previously or to say that the only thing AIA is interested in gaining students. I realize you were not the person who made that latter of those statements, but I wanted to address that as well. > > <<I also know Elizabeth Jones and worked early on with her at NAHA years ago. She is a lovely woman and I do not know enough about her particular program to comment, but I agree with Martin that some of the aromatherapy she seems to have taught you should be re-examined,>> > > Elizabeth has a very good school. I truly believe that all schools should consistently update their curriculum to be current with new findings in aromatherapy. The AIA guidelines are a living document that will grow, as well as the expectations of the schools that wish to be recognized by the AIA. Only Elizabeth, her administration and students know what is contained in her curriculum, so it would not be fair for anyone else to make comment or speculation on it. Not to mention the fact that it could be damaging to her reputation. I'm sure that Elizabeth would appreciate direct inquiries as opposed to speculation on ATFE about her program. By the way, the listing that was posted for COHBA and discussed here on this ATFE forum recently is more than 1 year old and has not been on the AIA website since April 2009. To discuss it now as if it is current would be improper and misleading. > > Thank you Marcia for your continued support of the AIA! The organization is a good and strong one! > > Lora Cantele > > ATFE , " Marcia Elston " <Marcia@> wrote: > > > > Lynn, I wanted to clarify that I didn't intend to disparage AIA when I said > > all three orgs were working at dual or cross purposes. I, actually, am a > > founding member and think that they're coming along and they are pretty much > > in their formative years still. With a focus on clinical aromatherapy, they > > no doubt will examine and re-examine the educational standards they have > > adopted along as they grow and mature. However, I think that their > > educational standards now pretty much replicate what the original Steering > > Committee came up with way back in the day, adopted by NAHA and used for the > > ARC exam. NAHA, I've given up on. ARC has their own set of problems and > > maybe Stacey or someone else can enlighten you here if are really > > interested. Educational standards for aromatherapy should be thoroughly > > examined and updated. Corrercting misinformation that has now permeated > > (and multiplied exponentially) going on 20 years (more if you count across > > the pond) is a daunting task. I also know Elizabeth Jones and worked early > > on with her at NAHA years ago. She is a lovely woman and I do not know > > enough about her particular program to comment, but I agree with Martin that > > some of the aromatherapy she seems to have taught you should be re-examined, > > based on what you have posted here. I don't know if you feel comfortable > > bringing questions and concerns back to Elizabeth, but it is a thought. > > Perhaps students will eventually be teaching their teachers all over again > > as we progress forward. > > > > You will see that pregnancy and potential essential oil toxicity is > > complicated, as Robert, Martin and others have already pointed out. I agree > > that there is probably over-caution. Better than no caution, however. > > > > Be Well, > > Marcia Elston, Samara Botane/Nature Intelligence > > http://www.wingedseed.com <http://www.wingedseed.com/> > > http://www.wingedseed.blogspot.com <http://www.wingedseed.blogspot.com/> > > http://www.aromaconnection.org <http://www.aromaconnection.org/> > > " We make a living by what we get. We make a life by what we give. " - Winston > > Churchill > > > > _____ > > > > ATFE [ATFE ] On Behalf Of Lynn > > Saturday, January 23, 2010 2:49 PM > > ATFE > > Re: Re: EO and pregnancy. > > > > > > > > > > Here is a link about the program...yeah, I know, AIA. It's an overview of > > the program. > > > > http://www.alliance > > <http://www.alliance-aromatherapists.org/aromatherapy_schools-collegebotanic > > alhealing.htm> > > -aromatherapists.org/aromatherapy_schools-collegebotanicalhealing.htm > > > > *I came here to learn from what I consider the experts.* If any piece of my > > education is erroneous, then I welcome the correction. > > > > Thanks for helping..............Lynn > > > > On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 7:53 AM, SUSAN <sueapito (AT) (DOT) > > <sueapito%40> com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > ATFE (AT) (DOT) <ATFE%40> com > > <ATFE%40>, Lynn <mrningdw@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > I am a certified essential oil therapist, and these are the oils to > > avoid > > > during pregnancy.< > > > > > > Three questions...what does " certified essential oil therapist " mean? > > > > > > Are you licensed under another profession perhaps? > > > > > > Why? I mean those are pretty broad and strange recommendations; why Fennel > > > or Peppermint for example? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2010 Report Share Posted January 30, 2010 > Number of hours of education has nothing at all to do with quality. I would dispute that standards in the UK are higher than America. The trade associations here continue teaching the junk straight out of the aromatherapy novels.< " Number of hours " is pretty much a standard in every college and university, so I guess this organization is just mirroring a standard model for educational requirements. And we all know that you can have a Bachelors degree from Harvard or one from West Pennsyltucky Community College and have spent the same amount of hours, but most likely received a better education at the former (as well as spent considerably more money to receive it.) I know my kids educations costs between $43,000 and $48,000 A YEAR and they could easily have gone to community college for far less, but hopefully both will have exceptional educations as a result (along with being brilliant children, of course.) That said, Martin, if everyone listened to you the entire field of aromatherapy would die off because " everyone " is teaching nonsense. Where exactly, and how exactly, do you suggest people learn to be professionals in the field of aromatherapy? Because just saying everyone " else " is in it for the money and everyone " else " teaches crap isn't really all that helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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