Question - Salvia divinorum & pain management

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone - I'm new to this list, but have been lurking for a few

weeks now. I'd like to know if anyone here has any expertise in the

botanical from the mint family known as salvia divinorum. My

interest is not in the halluciniogenic, psycho-spiritual experience

that is the prevelant desire in using/selling it, but rather in its

possible, if any, pain management benefits it may have. My husband

just came across a Newsweek article that drew his interest because

one of the things apparently known about this plant is that it

appears to work on the same centers of the brain that also deal with

pain inhibition. However, in my efforts to research this aspect, I

have found nothing that speaks specifically to this issue, either in

its effectiveness or in the duration such effect may have. My

husband suffers from severe osteo-arthritis and the only way he seems

to be able to manage the pain at present is by taking Tramadol and

drinking a 12 pk of beer every night, neither of which he cares to

do, but has found nothing that can give him relief that will dull the

pain so that he can actually get to sleep. He recoginizes the

dangers in doing this, and in fact, has developed a real bad gut pain

that takes an hour to finally get rid of every morning because of

this dangerous brew he is using. He is so tired of suffering from

the pain of the artritis which is most severe in his knee joints and

back, but is pretty much throughout every joint in his body.

And he's tired as well of the gut pain (waking up in a fetal position

it hurts so bad). I've made up topical pain relieving EO concoctions

in emu oil, and they have had a limited amount of effectiveness, but

he absolutely abhors anything greasy on his skin, so he just doesn't

use the concoction (I do and find thie relief very helpful). In

years past when he was able to get his hands on it, he smoked

marijuana for the euphoric, and pain relieving benefits he

experienced, but his work makes the risk of using it very real, so he

won't go there even though we are in a medical marijuana use state.

How does one even find a physician that would " prescribe " it?

Anyway, since salvia divinorum is currently legal in nearly all

states, he is hoping it might be an option that really works. I

would welcome any expert advice (on or off list) that the experts

might have here. BTW, he is only 46 and every doctor he has spoken

with about the pain basically tells him that if what he is doing now

(12 pk of beer) works, then go ahead and stick with that. Or they

tell him he will just have to get used to the pain. Both of these

reponses seem to be ridiculous medical positions, but we've yet to

find a physician that really seems to take the pain he experiences

seriously. Are we looking in the right direction, or does anyone

have advice for an alternative? Again, he will not rub an oily

substance on his body, so please don't bother with that type of

suggestion - unfortunately, it will fall on deaf ears. If that is

the only way, he will continue down this dangerous path he is on, no

matter how ill advised it is.

 

I look forward to your responses.

 

Blessings,

Robin

[Guest guest]

Robin,

 

 

 

Has he tried a Fentanyl patch?  Outside of doing the actual research on

Salvia, I would ask specifically the doctors to try and prescribe more than

one route of pain medication.  And as far as the greasy feel, you can

actually make a spray if you dilute the emu concoction in water and add

either amaze xt or structure xl. (and it will take that greasy feel out of

it. 

 

 

 

I'm a medical transcriptionist and I know that Tramadol and BEER do not

make a healthy combination, and he should probably be taking a proton pump

inhibitor (in order to combat the stomach pain)

 

 

 

Out side of that I will see what I can find out in the realm of medications

that might help and the salvia too.

 

 

 

It sounds like what your husband is doing is the fast track to an ulcer,

and or worse.

 

 

 

I know that the pain is awful.  I have a friend that has plantar fascitis

and recurring bouts of gout so bad that he has a standing prescription of 

the highest level of hydrocodone that is made, however that barely makes a

dent in his pain.  (he's had this for over 23 years.) 

 

 

 

Anyway.  Hope this helps.

 

 

 

 

> -

> Robin

> 05:14 pm

> ATFE2

> [ATFE2] Question - Salvia divinorum & pain management

>

> Hi everyone - I'm new to this list, but have been lurking for a few

> weeks now. I'd like to know if anyone here has any expertise in the

> botanical from the mint family known as salvia divinorum. My

> interest is not in the halluciniogenic, psycho-spiritual experience

> that is the prevelant desire in using/selling it, but rather in its

> possible, if any, pain management benefits it may have. My husband

> just came across a Newsweek article that drew his interest because

> one of the things apparently known about this plant is that it

> appears to work on the same centers of the brain that also deal with

> pain inhibition. However, in my efforts to research this aspect, I

> have found nothing that speaks specifically to this issue, either in

> its effectiveness or in the duration such effect may have. My

> husband suffers from severe osteo-arthritis and the only way he seems

> to be able to manage the pain at present is by taking Tramadol and

> drinking a 12 pk of beer every night, neither of which he cares to

> do, but has found nothing that can give him relief that will dull the

> pain so that he can actually get to sleep. He recoginizes the

> dangers in doing this, and in fact, has developed a real bad gut pain

> that takes an hour to finally get rid of every morning because of

> this dangerous brew he is using. He is so tired of suffering from

> the pain of the artritis which is most severe in his knee joints and

> back, but is pretty much throughout every joint in his body.

> And he's tired as well of the gut pain (waking up in a fetal position

> it hurts so bad). I've made up topical pain relieving EO concoctions

> in emu oil, and they have had a limited amount of effectiveness, but

> he absolutely abhors anything greasy on his skin, so he just doesn't

> use the concoction (I do and find thie relief very helpful). In

> years past when he was able to get his hands on it, he smoked

> marijuana for the euphoric, and pain relieving benefits he

> experienced, but his work makes the risk of using it very real, so he

> won't go there even though we are in a medical marijuana use state.

> How does one even find a physician that would " prescribe " it?

> Anyway, since salvia divinorum is currently legal in nearly all

> states, he is hoping it might be an option that really works. I

> would welcome any expert advice (on or off list) that the experts

> might have here. BTW, he is only 46 and every doctor he has spoken

> with about the pain basically tells him that if what he is doing now

> (12 pk of beer) works, then go ahead and stick with that. Or they

> tell him he will just have to get used to the pain. Both of these

> reponses seem to be ridiculous medical positions, but we've yet to

> find a physician that really seems to take the pain he experiences

> seriously. Are we looking in the right direction, or does anyone

> have advice for an alternative? Again, he will not rub an oily

> substance on his body, so please don't bother with that type of

> suggestion - unfortunately, it will fall on deaf ears. If that is

> the only way, he will continue down this dangerous path he is on, no

> matter how ill advised it is.

>

> I look forward to your responses.

>

> Blessings,

> Robin

>

>

> ---

>

>

[Guest guest]

ATFE2 , pixieladie wrote:

>

> Robin,

> Has he tried a Fentanyl patch? 

 

No he hasn't but he has talked to a number of people who have who did

not give it much positive feedback for chronic, severe, dibilitating

pain. He has tried so many types of pain relievers, most of which

are either ineffective (naprosin), chew up his gut (NSAIDS), or have

been pulled from the market (celebrex and that other older one whose

name is escaping me). These last two did work well, but you can't

use what they no longer allow on the market.

 

> And as far as the greasy feel, you can

> actually make a spray if you dilute the emu concoction in water and

add

> either amaze xt or structure xl. (and it will take that greasy feel

out of

> it. 

 

Thanks so much. I will have to give this a go. Can you suggest a

supplier for either of these products? I've not heard of them before

nor seen them on the suppliers I use for my soap and B & B products.

 

> I'm a medical transcriptionist and I know that Tramadol and BEER do

not

> make a healthy combination, and he should probably be taking a

proton pump

> inhibitor (in order to combat the stomach pain)

 

I have a brother who is dying from kidney, pancreatic, and liver

disease caused by mixing pain killers and alcohol. His only hope is

a liver transplant, but it looks grim. So, we do know first hand the

ravages of rx painkiller-alcohol coctails. DH has said from day one

he does not like how he feels in the morning after drinking, but the

pain is so intense, he can't get to sleep otherwise.

 

> Out side of that I will see what I can find out in the realm of

medications

> that might help and the salvia too.

 

Yours or anyone elses guidance is appreciated. The problem with rx

pain killers is that the doctors he has seen seem loathe to prescribe

them and again, they do not seem to take his pain seriously. He is

currently getting the tramadol through the internet because no doctor

we've seen will prescribe it. But I've seen the pain bring him to

his knees and have witnessed the psycholgical exhaustion of trying to

deal with it. My DH is a man who does not cry or whine, but this

pain has brought him to tears it has become so deblitating. He is at

the end of his teather over this. After reading your initial reply,

he was reduced to abject dispair and was in tears for nearly an

hour. And when we go the Doctor, they want to do hours and hours of

expensive testing (we currently have neither insurance nor gobs of

$$$) and often times are even limited in prescribing the most

effective pain killer by the insurance companies who require an

approach that begins with NSAIDS, etc.

 

> I know that the pain is awful.  I have a friend that has plantar

fascitis

> and recurring bouts of gout so bad that he has a standing

prescription of 

> the highest level of hydrocodone that is made, however that barely

makes a

> dent in his pain.  (he's had this for over 23 years.) 

 

DH cannot take these types of painkillers because they would intefere

with his ability to work. He is a heavy equipment maintenence

mechanic and service oiler. Heavy narcotics do not mix well with

heavy equipment operation.

 

I sure hope others have some input on the salvia - he is pinning a

lot of hope in it.

 

Blessings,

Robin

[Guest guest]

Robin,

Take a look around this site and see what you think. It may be worth a try

to help with his pain. Can't hurt.

http://www.emofree.com:80/default.htm

This is using EFT for pain relief.

Sherri Rohm

 

 

ATFE2 , pixieladie wrote:

>

> Robin,

> Has he tried a Fentanyl patch?

 

No he hasn't but he has talked to a number of people who have who did

not give it much positive feedback for chronic, severe, dibilitating

pain. He has tried so many types of pain relievers, most of which

are either ineffective (naprosin), chew up his gut (NSAIDS), or have

been pulled from the market (celebrex and that other older one whose

name is escaping me). These last two did work well, but you can't

use what they no longer allow on the market.

[Guest guest]

Robin,

 

I have not heard of Salvia divinorum for pain management. Not to say

it doesn't work, I just haven't heard anything about it.

 

You might want to encourage him to consider the marijuana. Montel

Williams swears it's the only thing that helps him with is MS pain.

If you have a local 'Weekly' type newspaper, they are usually ads for

Doctors. Plus it will not damage his liver like some of his current

treatments.

 

I'm not a doctor, and can't give medical advise, but I know some

people with severe pain that found the teas of white willow, kava kava

and passion flower helpful. Again this is just what I've heard.

 

And for a pain blend, you might try a lighter carrier than Emu. I

find it rather slimy too, have you tried Fractionated Coconut? It is

much lighter.

 

Anyway, hope it helps.

 

David Roman Daniels

[Guest guest]

David,

 

Thank you for your suggestions. Husband has wanted to get ahold of

marijuana, but his Commerical DL with Haz Mat is very coveted for

it's money earning ability. A dirty UA would end his commercial DL,

and dry up our funds to do anything at all about his pain. Since my

original post, DH has begun to explore homeopathic and herbal

remedies, and has begun to feel a bit of hope again. That's a good

thing! Yours and other responses sent privately have been very

instrumental in his willingness to look outside the box and move out

of his " routine " otherwise known as his rut, and for that, I thank

each of you.

 

I am very grateful to each of you who have responded with care and

concern.

Blessings,

Robin

 

ATFE2 , " David Roman " <Too_hats wrote:

>

> Robin,

>

> I have not heard of Salvia divinorum for pain management. Not to

say

> it doesn't work, I just haven't heard anything about it.

>

> You might want to encourage him to consider the marijuana. Montel

> Williams swears it's the only thing that helps him with is MS pain.

> If you have a local 'Weekly' type newspaper, they are usually ads

for

> Doctors. Plus it will not damage his liver like some of his current

> treatments.

>

> I'm not a doctor, and can't give medical advise, but I know some

> people with severe pain that found the teas of white willow, kava

kava

> and passion flower helpful. Again this is just what I've heard.

>

> And for a pain blend, you might try a lighter carrier than Emu. I

> find it rather slimy too, have you tried Fractionated Coconut? It

is

> much lighter.

>

> Anyway, hope it helps.

>

> David Roman Daniels

>