Clarification on My Post Regarding The Ol' Troll-Synthetics

[Guest guest]

>And I challenge you to elaborate on which synthetic fragrances are

>safer than which Essential Oils!

I have far more safety data on synthetic chemicals than essential oils

and you know how much I have on oils. I would love to meet this

challenge but I am not going to produce mountains of papers (which few

will read), just to show you are wrong.

 

The very reason we do not have significant oposition from the big boys

in the fragrance trade to the EEC bs, is because they simply

reformulate using substitute chemicals which are well tested to

determine their safety.

 

I am not a great friend of synthetics, but as far as safety is

concerned the data is there and far more of it than on many essential

oils such as those ONLY sold by aromatherapy suppliers.

 

Not going to reply on the rest as I would be up all night.

 

Martin

 

ATFE2 , " Butch Owen " <butchowen wrote:

>

> Hey Martin,

>

> > Wow this thread is getting out of hand but it has really fired

up the

> > group which is just great. I hope this will be my last post of the

> > subject as I must respond to a few points made by Butch and others.

> >

>

> I will agree that it got out of hand .. it got into the realm of

fantasy.

>

>

> > >If we don't demand some discipline in the field of Aromatherapy we

> > >must

> > >accept that synthetic fragrances sold by Glade and other companies

> > This all depends on what people think is meant by aroma-therapy. Many

> > years ago a friend of mine tried to persuade the trade associations in

> > the UK to register the term so that it could not be used by the likes

> > of Glade. The trade were just not interested and as a result what we

> > feared has happened.

> >

>

> I am certain that you agreed with that friend .. and what I am

trying to do

> is STOP crap like what you " feared " would happen. There is no need to

> " Register " the term Aromatherapy .. at least not in the USA. We

don't need

> the government to tell us how far to stand from a urinal. The EU has

> crapped over the free use of EO already .. more legislation or

registration

> is not what you need .. you need to have a group of HONEST professionals

> AGREE what AT is and then TELL the government .. don't wait for them to

> bless the term!

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Howdy Martin,

 

> >And I challenge you to elaborate on which synthetic fragrances are

> >safer than which Essential Oils!

 

> I have far more safety data on synthetic chemicals than essential

oils

> and you know how much I have on oils. I would love to meet this

> challenge but I am not going to produce mountains of papers (which

few

> will read), just to show you are wrong.

 

I have often said that you have perhaps the most extensive archive of

research materials around .. and I'm not asking for a lot of data ..

just which synthetic FO (not a particular chemical) is proven to be

safer than any particular EO .. for inhalation .. not dermal use.

 

> The very reason we do not have significant oposition from the big

boys

> in the fragrance trade to the EEC bs, is because they simply

> reformulate using substitute chemicals which are well tested to

> determine their safety.

 

But Martin .. we accept that this is what they say .. but is it true

or just that they can't patent naturals and they can't ensure a

consistent percentage of this or that chemical component from a

natural .. so in order to create unique products with a consistent

profile they add or delete this or that chemical component? If this

is the case .. which is likely for valid commerical reasons .. it is

highly unlikely that they are creating NEW chemicals from scratch ..

they are using either extracts from naturals or Natural Identical.

In any of these cases that would not prove that the synthetic was

safer than the natural .. it would just be more marketable .. more

desirable because they would have the same percentages in each batch

of whatever they wished to create. Its like the use of 40/42

Lavender in Perfumery .. there are good reasons for this even though

its rarely natural .. but that doesn't mean it is safer.

 

> I am not a great friend of synthetics, but as far as safety is

> concerned the data is there and far more of it than on many

essential

> oils such as those ONLY sold by aromatherapy suppliers.

 

I still question their data .. spin and slant are common in politics

and in industry .. you accept that yourself.

 

> Not going to reply on the rest as I would be up all night.

 

OK .. go get your beauty sleep. ;-)

 

The main point in all my posts on this Sweet Pea deal is that I thik

that this list has rookies who are still trying to figure out which

end is up in AT .. and sending them down a path of learning with bad

or confusing info is NOT good because all they learn after that will

be fruit of a poison tree. That is why I said before that your

course teaches the right way the first time .. it is damned hard to

unlearn bad info after one has built a foundation based on it.

 

> Martin

 

Happy Muthers Day .. you ol' Muther. ;-)

 

Y'all keep smiling. :-) Butch

 

 

> ATFE2 , " Butch Owen " <butchowen@> wrote:

> >

> > Hey Martin,

> >

> > > Wow this thread is getting out of hand but it has really fired

> up the

> > > group which is just great. I hope this will be my last post of

the

> > > subject as I must respond to a few points made by Butch and

others.

> > >

> >

> > I will agree that it got out of hand .. it got into the realm of

> fantasy.

> >

> >

> > > >If we don't demand some discipline in the field of

Aromatherapy we

> > > >must

> > > >accept that synthetic fragrances sold by Glade and other

companies

> > > This all depends on what people think is meant by aroma-

therapy. Many

> > > years ago a friend of mine tried to persuade the trade

associations in

> > > the UK to register the term so that it could not be used by the

likes

> > > of Glade. The trade were just not interested and as a result

what we

> > > feared has happened.

> > >

> >

> > I am certain that you agreed with that friend .. and what I am

> trying to do

> > is STOP crap like what you " feared " would happen. There is no

need to

> > " Register " the term Aromatherapy .. at least not in the USA. We

> don't need

> > the government to tell us how far to stand from a urinal. The

EU has

> > crapped over the free use of EO already .. more legislation or

> registration

> > is not what you need .. you need to have a group of HONEST

professionals

> > AGREE what AT is and then TELL the government .. don't wait for

them to

> > bless the term!

[Guest guest]

Butch & Martin,

I have been reading both of your postings with great interest. I want to

know the truth about the essential oils and what they can and can not do.

For the development of this field to be a legitimate offshoot of the Herbal

industry the aromatherapies needs to be clear and accurate on what the oils

can and cannot do. Scientific research will be almost impossible because

each and every batch is different just because of the nature of the growing

seasons and weather and all of that but the chemical substances and their

modes of action should be the same is this correct?? Oh I am a newbie to all

of this but hopefully learning.

Sherri Rohm

-

" Butch Owen " <butchowen

<ATFE2 >

Sunday, May 11, 2008 2:57 PM

[ATFE2] Clarification on My Post Regarding The Ol' Troll-Synthetics

 

 

> Howdy Martin,

>

>> >And I challenge you to elaborate on which synthetic fragrances are

>> >safer than which Essential Oils!

>

>> I have far more safety data on synthetic chemicals than essential

> oils

>> and you know how much I have on oils. I would love to meet this

>> challenge but I am not going to produce mountains of papers (which

> few

>> will read), just to show you are wrong.

>

> I have often said that you have perhaps the most extensive archive of

> research materials around .. and I'm not asking for a lot of data ..

> just which synthetic FO (not a particular chemical) is proven to be

> safer than any particular EO .. for inhalation .. not dermal use.

>

>> The very reason we do not have significant oposition from the big

> boys

>> in the fragrance trade to the EEC bs, is because they simply

>> reformulate using substitute chemicals which are well tested to

>> determine their safety.

>

> But Martin .. we accept that this is what they say .. but is it true

> or just that they can't patent naturals and they can't ensure a

> consistent percentage of this or that chemical component from a

> natural .. so in order to create unique products with a consistent

> profile they add or delete this or that chemical component? If this

> is the case .. which is likely for valid commerical reasons .. it is

> highly unlikely that they are creating NEW chemicals from scratch ..

> they are using either extracts from naturals or Natural Identical.

> In any of these cases that would not prove that the synthetic was

> safer than the natural .. it would just be more marketable .. more

> desirable because they would have the same percentages in each batch

> of whatever they wished to create. Its like the use of 40/42

> Lavender in Perfumery .. there are good reasons for this even though

> its rarely natural .. but that doesn't mean it is safer.

>

>> I am not a great friend of synthetics, but as far as safety is

>> concerned the data is there and far more of it than on many

> essential

>> oils such as those ONLY sold by aromatherapy suppliers.

>

> I still question their data .. spin and slant are common in politics

> and in industry .. you accept that yourself.

>

>> Not going to reply on the rest as I would be up all night.

>

> OK .. go get your beauty sleep. ;-)

>

> The main point in all my posts on this Sweet Pea deal is that I thik

> that this list has rookies who are still trying to figure out which

> end is up in AT .. and sending them down a path of learning with bad

> or confusing info is NOT good because all they learn after that will

> be fruit of a poison tree. That is why I said before that your

> course teaches the right way the first time .. it is damned hard to

> unlearn bad info after one has built a foundation based on it.

>

>> Martin

>

> Happy Muthers Day .. you ol' Muther. ;-)

>

> Y'all keep smiling. :-) Butch

>

>

>> ATFE2 , " Butch Owen " <butchowen@> wrote:

>> >

>> > Hey Martin,

>> >

>> > > Wow this thread is getting out of hand but it has really fired

>> up the

>> > > group which is just great. I hope this will be my last post of

> the

>> > > subject as I must respond to a few points made by Butch and

> others.

>> > >

>> >

>> > I will agree that it got out of hand .. it got into the realm of

>> fantasy.

>> >

>> >

>> > > >If we don't demand some discipline in the field of

> Aromatherapy we

>> > > >must

>> > > >accept that synthetic fragrances sold by Glade and other

> companies

>> > > This all depends on what people think is meant by aroma-

> therapy. Many

>> > > years ago a friend of mine tried to persuade the trade

> associations in

>> > > the UK to register the term so that it could not be used by the

> likes

>> > > of Glade. The trade were just not interested and as a result

> what we

>> > > feared has happened.

>> > >

>> >

>> > I am certain that you agreed with that friend .. and what I am

>> trying to do

>> > is STOP crap like what you " feared " would happen. There is no

> need to

>> > " Register " the term Aromatherapy .. at least not in the USA. We

>> don't need

>> > the government to tell us how far to stand from a urinal. The

> EU has

>> > crapped over the free use of EO already .. more legislation or

>> registration

>> > is not what you need .. you need to have a group of HONEST

> professionals

>> > AGREE what AT is and then TELL the government .. don't wait for

> them to

>> > bless the term!

>

>

> ---

>

>

[Guest guest]

> I am not a great friend of synthetics, but as far as safety is

> concerned the data is there and far more of it than on many essential

> oils such as those ONLY sold by aromatherapy suppliers.

>

> Not going to reply on the rest as I would be up all night.

>

> Martin

 

I'm so happy to hear you say that because I got into the use of

essential oils over 10 years ago with the intention of making natural

perfumes, soaps and so on and when I began learning about the facts

and all, endangered species with trees and woods, I just said screw it

and went to dealing with synthetics. For me to scent my lotions and

massage oils the way people like them, would constitute unsafe amounts

of EOs being used, plus it would become expensive. I couldn't be

bothered. Most people who buy from me haven't a clue about EOs

anyway. Not being critical, they just don't know. They think

aromatherapy is lavender scented Downey and/or Glade candles, not

knowing that they are synthetic fragrances. If you smell the

synthetic lavender, it smells NOTHING like real lavender essential

oil, if you look on the back of these products it states " Fragrance. "

But then they beef up the price like it really contains an essential

oil. So, I'm just doing my thang here.

 

Michele Madison Robles

Danaomi Scents