Rose Absolute Production ** Was: Are Sweet Peas Aromatherapy?

[Guest guest]

Hey Martin,

 

Gonna comment a bit on your post.

 

--- " Martin Watt " <aromamedical@..

 

> Absolutes are far more " natural " than any essential oils as long as

> they have been properly produced. More floral notes, less chemical

> changes caused by distillation,chemistry much closer to the living

> plant, etc. etc.

 

I agree .. though we must make assumptions when we discuss chemical

changes caused by distillation .. there is not much information here.

We do know that distilled EO and Hydrosols have different profiles

based on solubility. There is nothing natural about the process of

distillation .. or the extraction processes used to make Absolutes.

But bottom line is .. EO either work or don't work and if they don't

work then there is nothing to AT .. and this and other AT News Groups

are a waste of time. ;-)

 

> The downside is they are frequently adulterated (but so are

> so are essential oils), also there are some on the market the skin

> safety of which is not known.

 

Agree .. sorta .. there are many adulterated products as though GC

and/or GC/MS is not perfect (as us the case with polygraphs, EKGs and

Stress Thallium Tests .. to name a few medical procedures) it is

better than no test .. so folks need to DEMAND these tests. I will

provide a copy for any EO I sell .. FREE.

 

As for skin safety .. we both know that such tests are not conducted

except for products that are intended to be applied dermally .. sold

by large companies. But dermal application is not all of what AT is

about.

 

> The other big problem is many so called 'natural perfumers' use some

> extracts that are restricted, and uneducated therapists then start

> using them on peoples skin in volumes that they were never intended

> to be used in.

 

On the " restricted " part .. the fact that something is restricted in

the European Socialist Union means little .. the blind bureaucrats in

that non democratic arena are leading other blind bureaucrats .. and

all of them are being herded by the Pharmaceutical Companies.

 

> Give me a fine Egyptian rose absolute anyday to badly cooked village

> essential oils such as some therapists have seen in Turkey.

 

Neither you nor any other person on this list or any other News Group

has EVER had possession of a Village Cooked ABSOLUTE from Turkey ..

the reason is .. they have never existed! There are some village

cooked Rose Ottos but these people have also not had access to them.

Having lived over 26 years in Turkey all told .. and over 19 + years

this last trip (which ended in July 2007) I know every distiller and

his mother and his dog in that country. Those few small farmers who

still use hand beaten copper alembics heated over wood fires to

produce caramelized Rose Ottos have NEVER sold them to Europeans or

Americans .. 100% of that oil goes to Arabs .. and the total amount

produced each year is roughly 20 kilos! That 20 kilos comes from the

crude distillation of the over 90 metric tons (198,400 lbs) of Rose

Blossoms that they grow in their garden spots. None of that oil and

none of those blossoms are used by the commercial distillers.

 

> High quality Absolutes are extracted using the best modern

equipment,

 

Right .. and that is what they DO NOT have! There are but three

commercial producers of Rose Absolute in Turkey .. each of them has

millions of dollars tied up in their infrastructure. When you

visited me in Turkey you did not meet them .. you met only the

commercial Rose Otto producers.

 

I have 12 kilos of Commercial Turkish Rose Absolute (Damask Rose ..

Rosa damascena) .. in U.S. Customs as folks read this .. should be in

our hands by Friday. It is all sold folks .. sorry about that. ;-)

 

> whereas some essential oils are ruined when heated over crude fires

> such as some of the forementioned, and some of the attars from

> India.

 

I will not say SOME of them are ruined .. I'll say ALL of them are.

They are caramelized .. the dude hangs a 40 kilo thin copper alembic

over a wood fire .. cooks the blossoms and the condensed oils run

through a RUBBER tube into a wood bin lined with tin .. filled with

cold water .. looks like a feed trough. The Oil is then spooned off

and placed in a gallon jug. There is no Florentine Flash with

petcock to separate First (Chi) Oil and Hydrosol .. the Hydrosol is

poured into jugs and then cohobated again to extract the lion's share

of the hydrophilic oil .. so .. its All Caramelized.

 

Remember folks .. we are talking Rose Otto .. not Absolute. There is

NO WAY a village cooker can produce Absolute .. NO WAY! Think on it

if you want to and challenge me if you wish .. but you will lose and

and you will easily see why you lost when I explain the reasons why I

say this .. I will spare you that for now .. but just say that it has

to do with an inability to deal with Hexane and Alcohol.

 

But its not just that handful of peasant farmers who are producing

pee poor Rose Otto .. the two French Rose Oil producers in Turkey

produce a Rose Otto worse than the Village Oil. How? Well .. I'll

give you a clue .. they have no Rose Hydrosol when they complete

their production!

 

Need more? If there is no Rose Hydrosol it means there is no Rose

Oil bearing water .. right? Why? Because they cohobate 3 or 4 times

till they get that last silly milliliter. How many times can you

keep cooking something and still have it smell good?

 

> Martin Watt

 

Y'all have a good one .. and keep smiling. :-)

 

Butch .. http://www.AV-AT.com

 

PS 1: Though I (and my employees) have kept up with orders .. I owe

lots of folks lots of replies to routine posts and I will get to

them .. the last 3 weeks has been 3 of the most busy weeks in my

life .. but I will get to the replies.

 

PS 2: For the New Folks .. If you would like to an Aromatic Journey

through the Rose Fields and Stills of Turkey, go to the following

links ...

 

My writings on distillation of Turkish Rose Otto can be found at

http://www.av-at.com/distillation/rosadamascena1.html

 

Here is a link with lots of good photos of wild aromatic plants of

Turkey http://www.av-at.com/stuff/triptoturkey.html

 

Martin Watt visited the Turkish Rose Fields in Summer 2000 - the

following article on his trip was published in the Winter 2000

edition of the European magazine " Aromatica " .

http://www.aromamedical.com/articles/rosedistillation.htm