Guest guest Posted November 24, 2007 Report Share Posted November 24, 2007 Howdy Liz, Martin .. other good folks ... I am sure that both of you were expecting me to jump in and present a different side of this subject .. for years I have done it every time you or Martin Watt posted on this and I was waiting for Martin's post before I replied. ;-) Martin is a good buddy of mine, we met when we both presented lectures in Canada and when he visited me while I was in Turkey and we were business partners for a while .. but each time he has posted on Rosewood or Mysore Sandalwood I have presented the other side of the issue .. and though you and I have never met except on and off line, we do share similar opinions on many subjects ... and I believe that we too are buddies .. and I believe that you (like Martin) will not object (too much) to views that are different from yours. ;-) > As we know, Aniba Roseodora is on the verge of extinction in areas > where it was once common, particularly around Manous and Silves which > were the traditional Rosewood oil production areas in Brazil. Starting out a post with " As we know " is very convincing tactic but not always an accurate statement. ;-) Aniba roseodora might be on the verge of extinction in areas where it was once common but it is not on the verge of distinction in some other more isolated areas. Things are always tougher to find closer to home because its from home that we venture out in search of plants and animal critters .. that was common even back in the early days of the settlement of America. Come to think on it .. the main reason that the French and British wanted to come to the New World in the first place was to get furs and tall trees for the masts of their ships because the furs in Europe were owned by royalty and y'all had pretty much cut down all your trees tall enough to be used for masts on your sailing ships. ;-) > Most still stock/buy rosewood oil because of confusion - for want of a > better word - many know those *confusions* well, I'm sure :-) but for > those who dont the following may be of interest : I will do my best to help to clear up the confusion .. in this and at least one (probably more) follow on posts. Both you and I and Martin have written on this subject many times before .. on this and on other News Groups .. but the posts for this group are no longer in the archive as they were lost when the list crashed. I kept most of mine and now we will be able to assist in rebuilding the archive. ;-) > Common misunderstandings about rosewood essential oil. > > *Its produced from chipping left over from musical instrument and > furniture production* > > 1) No its not - The tree used to make furniture & musical instruments > is Dalbergia nigra, common name Brazilian Rosewood. It is also > endangered, but not used in essential oil production. True that is .. but dang near all the references one can find .. even from conservation organizations and Eco-Activists and even Eco-Terrorists falsely state that it is used for oil production. > 2) Chippings would produce very little essential oil in any case - its > the heartwood and roots that contain the highest % of oil - hence the > reasons to fell and uproot the whole tree and why leaf and twig > production has not proved commercially viable (yet, although it is > high on the research agenda, see below). Agree. > *I use Plantation grown Indian Rosewood not Brazilian* > > 3) In that case you are using Dalbergia latifolia (which is also used > for musical instruments) and known commonly as Indian rosewood. I've > personally never seen an EO labeled Dalbergia latifolia, so its hard > to say just whats in the bottle if the label says Indian Rosewood with > a botanical name of Aniba roseodora.... Some of the so called " sustainable " Rosewood EO sold is adulterated with Ho Leaf oil. But there is a small amount of plantation grown Aniba roseodora coming out of Brazil. However, it is not only leaf oil .. its oil made from trimmed branches as well as leaves .. and the odor sucks! I would not buy it or sell it. I know this because I communicate often with a friend who works for the Brazilian government ... he is not into essential oils but he has knowledge of much of the official comings and goings there. He says that export of this small amount of " sustainable " Rosewood oil is intended to show that certain milestones are being passed in their attempt to show the West that they are successful with the program. Obviously, the many folks who claim to be selling sustainable Rosewood oil are not really selling this product. Most of them can not tell the difference in any case but some others who I know are capable of knowing the difference are pulling the wool over the eyes of folks who want to feel that they are a part of the campaign to save the Rain Forests. Unfortunately, in this industry it is too easy to fool the foolish .. I have always avoided using esoteric, flowery, New Age statements and descriptions of my EO products .. there is not even one such description to be found on my web site .. I just say that I am selling quality essential oils that are proven to be pure via GC or GC/MS laboratory analysis. Folks who fall for descriptions of EO that appear to give them human emotional qualities are not getting the proper bang for their buck. And when I read that someone is only selling EO that has been extracted from wild grown aromatics that were harvested in an Earth Friendly manner .. using lots of Tender Loving Care .. maybe even by Vestal Virgins in long white flowing robes who blessed the plants for their sacrifice and for their forgiveness while chanting Hari Krishna ... I wonder why the Hell I am still in this business. If folks could truly see how most aromatics are harvested they might be shocked. ;-) > *My oil is IBAMA Certified* > > 4) Yes - it will be. All Rosewood coming out of Brazil has to have > IBAMA (The Brazilian Institute of Environment and Renewable Natural > Resources) Certification. Unfortunately that is no guarantee that the > wood was legally harvested...... It is certainly no guarantee that the wood was legally harvested. The recent CNN program, " Planet In Peril, showed alleged dedicated enforcement officers busting poachers in the Rain Forest .. I don't remember the exact details but the number of law enforcement officers with these duties was something like one for every 500 square miles and even though these folks were being interviewed on camera they claimed that their mission was an impossible one. Having spent a good portion of my life (as a Military Police Officer) in Third World and Emerging Market countries in Africa, Asia and the Middle and Near East, I have personal experience dealing with under trained, under paid law enforcement personal. So I conclude that off camera, odds are that these peasant law enforcement officers who must face the weapons of hidden poachers who are willing to kill them, are inclined to take bribes rather than prisoners .. this is pure self-preservation in that it reduces their risk of death while performing an impossible mission for an uncaring government and subsidizes their meagre salaries. Governments in such countries typically turn a blind eye to these practices because allowing their civil servants and law enforcement personnel to take bribes keeps them happy .. keeps them on the job .. and saves money for the government Corruption and poverty are the major problems when dealing with illegal cultivation of drug crops, illegal killing of wild critters, and destruction of the Brazilian Rain Forests. Illegal harvest of trees is certainly a problem in Brazil and in other countries .. but loss of the Rain Forest must be recognized as the Result of this .. not the Cause. Legal or illegal harvest of Rosewood trees has absolutely nothing to do with the destruction of the Rain Forest .. more later on that. > IBAMA is active in trying to catch illegal loggers, and some > indigenous people now have the help of Google in monitoring their > forests. > http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wireStory?id=3290684 As mentioned above, the token efforts of law enforcement personnel there is piddling .. at best, and it has nothing to do with saving Rosewood trees .. as stated in the article you referenced, it has to do with them wanting to " stop loggers and miners from deforesting the jungle and digging for gold on its vast Amazon reservation. " Which is the Real Problem .. Rosewood is not the Real Problem except that the Indians want to sell it themselves rather than have the loggers haul it off as a part of their take. > Unfortunately by the time logging activity is noted and acted on, the > trees are already down, into the portable still and being turned into > essential oil. So what can IBAMA do with the illegally felled trees > and already produced essential oil when they catch loggers with them? > Pour the oil away and let the remaining logs rot? Hardly practical. So > they confiscate both oil and logs. Sometimes, confiscated logs/oil are > donated to local community projects so they can either use it to make > products to sell, or for them to process the logs & sell the oil > direct, in either case they need a Certificate to sell Rosewood > oil/products, so IBAMA certifies the wood/oil at the same time as it's > donated. That - illegally originated - oil can then legitimately go on > the open market, complete with relevant *certification*. Then again it > can also *skip* the donation stage and go right on the EO market..... > Illegally gathered wood - made *legal* by a swift certification. I doubt the existence of efficient " portable " stills for the production of Rosewood oil because of the massive labor effort needed to get the heartwood ready for distillation .. distillation itself is the easiest step in the process. Due to an insufficient transportation network these stills are almost always downstream from where the Rosewood trees are harvested. I believe that the above statement is merely imaginative support for a position made by the Eco-Activists. > *My Rosewood come from Sustainable Plantations...* > > 5) No it does not, because there are no Rosewood plantations producing > trees for oil extraction. In 5 years searching I have not found > details of a single Rosewood " plantation " ready to go into production > cutting and processing heartwood. Neither the Brazilian embassy, > IBAMA, FSC (Forest Stewardship Council) or various University > conservation departments could point me in the direction of one. There > are many trials attempting to grow RW but non have succeeded (yet). RW > is difficult to propagate and needs the shade and mix species provided > by the forest canopy to thrive. There are some mixed species > plantations/nursery's which are used for propagation renewal, they > provide seedlings and young trees to conservation/forest renewal > projects, but they dont provide trees for oil production. Generally you are right .. its like the many who claim to be selling Origanum vulgare .. in fact there is not enough Origanum vulgare in the world to supply all of these sellers and I have personally sold other types of Carvacrol rich Origanums (which are just as effective as Origanum vulgare) to many large buyers who claim that ONLY Origanum vulgare will do the job .. avoid the other types. ;-) But as I said above .. there is a piddling amount of " plantation " Rosewood EO available for sale in the USA .. check some of the major sellers on the Net and you will find it. A few of them are actually selling plantation grown Rosewood oil .. even if they don't know the difference. Folks can argue that its not really " plantation grown " .. that its illegally harvested wild grown .. but such an argument is not supported when one looks at the price of the oil .. contrary to the forecasts that claimed it would be more costly, it is far less costly than the wild grown Rosewood oil .. and that argument will not be supported when one sniffs the oil because it is totally inferior. It is illogical to believe that someone sell an oil for less than their cost .. or would manipulate a higher priced, quality wild grown Rosewood oil to make it smell like a lesser quality plantation oil when the whole idea behind selling Rosewood EO in the first place is odor. > " For every tree cut down 8 new ones are planted " > > Nice try, but Rosewood wont grow in open (newly cleared) land. So the > seedling (all 8 of them - if planted, and no one checks that) obtained > from the above mentioned forest renewal nurseries simply die. Not sure where you got this information .. I suspect it is from Chrissie Wildwood .. but I don't believe it is accurate. ;-) Rosewood (like Coffee) likes to grow in the shade but it (like many other aromatics and food crops) can be grown in less than ideal conditions and it will produce a less than ideal oil. My friend in Brazil has seen these some poorly managed plantations and he states that they are unlikely to ever become a source for wood or oil. Again, he says that the main reason Brazil even agreed to the plantations was to stroke the organizations and governments that were making a lot of noise .. and that the government doesn't really care one way or the other .. that is easy to believe. > Also, only licenced loggers are bound by this 8 for 1 - so called - rule. > The illegally logged (confiscated and legalised) oil bypasses this > completely. True .. but there is no great effort being made to poach only Rosewood trees .. more on that later. > There are now only 6/8 legal RW oil distilleries allowed to produce RW > oil. There used to be more than 50. Some experts claim only four are in existence .. I believe there are far more than 6 or 8 Legal stills operating and I believe that almost all of the Illegally harvested Rosewood trees are being broken down and distilled in Legal distilleries .. I cannot quote references on this .. but I believe my sources! > http://www.fao.org/forestry/foris/webview/pageview.jsp?pageId=36678 & geoId=-1 & lan\ gId=1 & 85915381#P261_25962 This article from the Food and Agriculture Organization's Non Wood Forest Products (NWFP) Program is not the most credible one around. > Quote: > " legal rosewood oil production in Brazil today is barely one-tenth of > its peak in the late 1960's, when annual output was 300 tons. The > number of registered mills, which turn rosewood tree trunks into oil > through an inefficient process that seems to devour trees, has also > fallen drastically, from more than 50 in the 1940's to fewer than 8 > now. " (Snipped a bit) > So we are still quite a distance from a wholly *natural leaf* Rosewood oil. Agree. > Aniba roseodora (from Brazil) is taken exclusively for essential oil > production which involves the destruction of the whole tree - roots an all. > Plain and simple. It is not plain and simple and that is not the " exclusive reason " that Aniba roseodora trees are felled .. it is true that after they are failed only a fool would let them lay around and rot .. but the lion's share of Rosewood trees that fall are victims of " collateral damage " . More on that in another post .. or posts. ;-) > I'm not attempting to push an agenda; if you still want to use > Rosewood essential oil then do - but use it with honesty - dont fool > yourself with an ecological lullaby. Liz .. you are definitely pushing an agenda .. just as Martin and Chrissie are pushing agendas when they write against use of Rosewood or Mysore Sandalwood .. and just as I am pushing an agenda when I write for the use of same. There is nothing wrong with pushing an agenda .. but if we want to be credible while doing this, we gotta make sure we own up to it cause most folks are smart enough to figure it out anyway. ;-) > LLx And now .. to reply to my buddy Martin. ;-) > Just to back this up for those that don't know, there are articles on > my web site going back years on this issue. They prove that > aromatherapy suppliers in particular have been lying for years over > their sources of rosewood oil and aromatherapy teachers have > been making up fairy tales on its use for even longer. > > Martin Watt > http://www.aromamedical.com In fact y'all .. Martin has a treasure trove of fine articles on his site .. y'all oughta take the time to read them all .. start here .. http://www.aromamedical.com/articlesarchive.html .. and for those who want to learn the proper and safe use of EO .. and what AT is really all about the first time around .. so as to be able to avoid having to unlearn the bad info and the hype that is common in the teaching of these subjects .. I would recommend you consider taking his AT Correspondence Course .. which is the most complete and accurate one around .. and the least costly .. it can be reviewed at this link .. http://www.aromamedical.com/coursedetails.html That said and done .. Martin and others who know me well understand that the above recommendations are the truth as I see it .. coming from my strong beliefs and experience in this business .. and I am not one who would stroke folks if did not believe that they had their crap together .. but even though I have the utmost respect for the knowledge this Grouchy Old Limey Troll has accumulated through many years of training and detailed research .. I don't agree with everything he believes in when it is outside his area of expertise .. and I believe that he is wrong in many of his positions on conservation. ;-) I do agree that many EO sellers purposely lie about the source and purity and quality of oils they sell .. but most of them tell it like it is NOT because they don't know .. and are not interested in knowing ... and I sometimes wonder which is worse .. knowing and lying or not knowing and not caring. I guess that goes along with this discussion ... controversial subjects are good in that they allow folks to see more than one side of an issue. I think this is good for those who are interested in knowing and telling it like they really think it is ... but new information sheds like water off a duck's back if it upsets the marketing hype of some folks .. as it might if it bursts the balloons of one who is dedicated to pushing an agenda and doesn't want to consider that they might be wrong. ;-) More to come later .. count on it. ;-) Y'all have a good one .. and keep smiling. :-) Butch .. http://www.AV-AT.com .. Wholesale/Retail GC Tested EO and Rose Products, Tested Hydrosols and other nice goodies shipped to you from our store/warehouse in Downtown Friendsville, MD. Pop: 597 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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