OK - This is for you Martin!! (but input by anyone appreciated!)

[Guest guest]

Hey - great to see you here too, Martin!

 

This is the reply the head teacher just emailed me:

 

Fiona

I would love to do this but TAFE no longer has facilities to do this sort of

testing. Perhaps next year I might be able to negotiate something with UNE. It

would be a tricky thing though because the metabolites of the oils would be

excreted in urine and perhaps these are unknown. We would need access to a very

expensive Mass Spectrometer/LC plus a fair bit of time.

 

Will think about it though.

 

is he correct about the Mass Spec thingy - do we need access to it, and is it

expensive?? Are metabolites *that* unknown?? Could we test oils that have the

metabolites already documented?

 

Fiona

Aust.

 

 

-

Martin Watt

ATFE2

Friday, August 31, 2007 8:22 AM

[ATFE2] Re: EO absorption

 

 

>I note that on Martin's website he says that no specific experiments

>have been done with subjects NOT being able to smell EO's

 

Since that article was written years ago, I know of one experiment

where people wore breathing apparatus and were massaged using Orange

oil. I am told there were no traces of that oil or its constituent

chemicals when blood samples were taken and analysed. The study has

never been published because it was funded by a charity involved in

cancer care as a private project, but I do know it was well

constructed and done at a UK University as I was asked for some advice.

 

The whole skin absorption thing in aromatherapy is a fantasy invented

long ago by know-nothing teachers/authors on the subject.

 

Martin Watt

http://www.aromamedical.com

 

ATFE2 , " cooredulla " <cooredulla wrote:

>

> Ahh Butch - howdy!

>

> I knew I could count on you for some info ;-)

>

> The subject that I'm studying is 'Research Methods', and its part of

a Diploma of Remedial Massage. I'm already a professional MT, but the

industry is becoming more standardised, albeit slowly, so I'm doing

subjects that I haven't done previously, to get me a piece of paper

that says I now have a " Diploma of Remedial Massage " .

>

> Anyhow, one task was to review a scientific article from a health

science journal and interpret the results.

>

> Well, I found one:

>

> Reducing the symptoms of lymphoedema: Is there a role for

aromatherapy. Barclayj, Vesley j, Lamber A, Balmer C Eurpoean Journal

of Oncology Nursing (2006).

>

> I am also a qualified Lymphoedema Therapist, and have a Cert IV in

Aromatherapy, so I was really excited to find this paper. I 'reviewd'

it and received a Distinction. My teacher left comments, and one of

them was the one I posted.

>

> I wanted to prove him wrong (even though I actually agree with him).

>

> I note that on Martin's website he says that no specific experiments

have been done with subjects NOT being able to smell EO's as they are

being massaged. Well, I emailed my teacher (who is Head of Studies)

and asked him if we could do such an experiment!! I have no idea what

he will say....but if one never asks, the answer is definately a 'no'!!

>

> I'll let you all know what he thinks!!!

>

> Thanks for the info.

>

> Cheers,

> Fiona

> Australia

> -

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

On 8/30/07, cooredulla <cooredulla wrote:

>

> Hey - great to see you here too, Martin!

>

> This is the reply the head teacher just emailed me:

>

> Fiona

> I would love to do this but TAFE no longer has facilities to do this sort

> of testing. Perhaps next year I might be able to negotiate something with

> UNE. It would be a tricky thing though because the metabolites of the oils

> would be excreted in urine and perhaps these are unknown. We would need

> access to a very expensive Mass Spectrometer/LC plus a fair bit of time.

>

> Will think about it though.

>

> is he correct about the Mass Spec thingy - do we need access to it, and is

> it expensive?? Are metabolites *that* unknown?? Could we test oils that have

> the metabolites already documented?

>

> Fiona

> Aust.

>

> -

> Martin Watt

> ATFE2 <ATFE2%40>

> Friday, August 31, 2007 8:22 AM

> [ATFE2] Re: EO absorption

>

> >I note that on Martin's website he says that no specific experiments

> >have been done with subjects NOT being able to smell EO's

>

> Since that article was written years ago, I know of one experiment

> where people wore breathing apparatus and were massaged using Orange

> oil. I am told there were no traces of that oil or its constituent

> chemicals when blood samples were taken and analysed. The study has

> never been published because it was funded by a charity involved in

> cancer care as a private project, but I do know it was well

> constructed and done at a UK University as I was asked for some advice.

>

> The whole skin absorption thing in aromatherapy is a fantasy invented

> long ago by know-nothing teachers/authors on the subject.

>

> Martin Watt

> http://www.aromamedical.com

>

> ATFE2 <ATFE2%40>, " cooredulla "

> <cooredulla wrote:

> >

> > Ahh Butch - howdy!

> >

> > I knew I could count on you for some info ;-)

> >

> > The subject that I'm studying is 'Research Methods', and its part of

> a Diploma of Remedial Massage. I'm already a professional MT, but the

> industry is becoming more standardised, albeit slowly, so I'm doing

> subjects that I haven't done previously, to get me a piece of paper

> that says I now have a " Diploma of Remedial Massage " .

> >

> > Anyhow, one task was to review a scientific article from a health

> science journal and interpret the results.

> >

> > Well, I found one:

> >

> > Reducing the symptoms of lymphoedema: Is there a role for

> aromatherapy. Barclayj, Vesley j, Lamber A, Balmer C Eurpoean Journal

> of Oncology Nursing (2006).

> >

> > I am also a qualified Lymphoedema Therapist, and have a Cert IV in

> Aromatherapy, so I was really excited to find this paper. I 'reviewd'

> it and received a Distinction. My teacher left comments, and one of

> them was the one I posted.

> >

> > I wanted to prove him wrong (even though I actually agree with him).

> >

> > I note that on Martin's website he says that no specific experiments

> have been done with subjects NOT being able to smell EO's as they are

> being massaged. Well, I emailed my teacher (who is Head of Studies)

> and asked him if we could do such an experiment!! I have no idea what

> he will say....but if one never asks, the answer is definately a 'no'!!

> >

> > I'll let you all know what he thinks!!!

> >

> > Thanks for the info.

> >

> > Cheers,

> > Fiona

> > Australia

> > -

>

>

[Guest guest]

What is needed firstly is the ability to take blood samples. This has

to be done from within a sterile bag in order to avoid volatiles

contaminating the needle.These then have to be processed by experts in

blood analysis. This would include normal GLC and I do not think mass

spec is necessary.

 

The metabolites in the urine is not really related to the skin

absorption issue. All we need to know is are there components of the

oil in the blood and if so how much. Metabolites in the urine are

something that are investigated when the toxicity of an oil is being

examined and with skin testing you don't need to use anything like

that volume.

 

The whole process is expensive though as you need real expertise in

forensic blood analysis and those people are few. You need breathing

equipement to avoid inhalation. You need a very carefully controlled

group of people who will stay on a restricted diet for a couple of

weeks. Bear in mind the volatiles we ingest in our normal food which

would throw blood test results. All kinds of controls are required

and that costs money.

 

At the end of the day the question has to be asked-what for? In my

opinion the skin absorption issue is a dead duck which should be laid

to rest.

 

Martin Watt

 

ATFE2 , " cooredulla " <cooredulla wrote:

>

> Hey - great to see you here too, Martin!

>

> This is the reply the head teacher just emailed me:

>

> Fiona

> I would love to do this but TAFE no longer has facilities to do this

sort of testing. Perhaps next year I might be able to negotiate

something with UNE. It would be a tricky thing though because the

metabolites of the oils would be excreted in urine and perhaps these

are unknown. We would need access to a very expensive Mass

Spectrometer/LC plus a fair bit of time.

>

> Will think about it though.

>

> is he correct about the Mass Spec thingy - do we need access to it,

and is it expensive?? Are metabolites *that* unknown?? Could we

test oils that have the metabolites already documented?

>

> Fiona

> Aust.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Again, many thanks Martin.

 

Yeah, I realise it's a 'lame duck', but I just thought the more experiments that

disprove the aborption by skin theory, the better. Perhaps then, those books,

schools, etc that still extoll the virtues of using it topically for every

ailment under the sun, would be discredited.

 

I also just thought it would be extremely interesting, from a purely personal

level!!

 

Fiona

Aust.