nipple soreness and candida more info

[Guest guest]

This topic fortunately draws lots of discussion. Here are the files

Rebecca put together of our conversations on this topic here before.

We do have it better organized somewhat now on my computer, though it

is valuable to have those most experienced like this Dr Newman, and

others who have worked most with it.

 

http://health.ayurveda

the forth folder down, click on it and you will see a collection from

diverse practioners.

 

I would be taking organic only essential oils (not tincture) of

Oregano or the " Inner Defense " pre-encapsulated blend, alongside some

gentling chamomile and/or rosewood oils for high pitta moms. A friend

asked me to help determine cost and dose effectiveness with Oregano,

and there is a wide variation in how much for how long is needed, even

with one person, based on what to some is questionable science,

kinesiology, and on tested differences in bio-constituent levels from

distillation temp/time/pressure of the oregano oil used, for instance.

Many oils have antiyeast effects and I prefer blends for broader

action.

 

Candida goes along with low agni and pitta ama at the same time is my

understanding. Some mothers swab baby's mouth with coconut

oil/chamomile oil mix - it is bitter tasting and I don't know how

effectiveness compares - looking for options to the stain etc of

gentian. Will let you know when I hear back from a doula friend who

has more experience with moms here.

 

Ysha

 

> Gentian Violet . It works for some

> and not others and it is messy and will stain so have the mom be

[Guest guest]

Dear Group,

 

An enormous thank you for the discussion and response

to questions about nipple soreness.

 

Here's an update: I saw the mom and five 1/2 week old

baby today. They are doing MUCH better. I was

pleased to see the mom now able to tune in to baby's

needs, whereas at first his cries baffled her. She

said making more eye contact was probably the best

advice and most helpful. She said she noticed this

made a significant shift in everything. Ah, how

nature takes care, eh? Her milk production is fine,

finally and she is beginning to move out of trauma.

She looks happy and her etheric forces look like they

are beginning to build. Whew. The baby's digestive

system is stronger, now that the mom is less stressed.

 

The nipple pain, however, is still an issue. So much

so that she is hardly able to make skin to skin

contact with the baby without her nipples being

touched. She too is concerned about thrush. I will

spend more time discussing this with her within a day

or two.

 

We worked with his latch, which she was also

questioning. Her LC said he had a text book latch

when first born. We noticed that as he nursed his

mouth/lips would narrow so that he was almost pinching

her nipple with his lips after some time. She said

this particularly happens when he is drifting off, as

if he is forgetting to nurse. I am far from begin an

LC. I saw his mouth open wide and he seemed to latch

on easily and get a good grip.

 

I did suggest she let him crawl up her belly from her

pelvis, which never happened, thus far.

 

He is beginning to gain weight, which is also a

relief. So he is now half a pound over birth weight.

 

His infection is also gone. She is on probiotics,

since his antibiotics. She did say that candida had

been a problem for her in the not so distance past.

 

My one question is this: since birth he has had a

white upper palate. Is this a thrush sign? It sounds

like it may be. The white looks filmy.

 

She said her breasts feel best in the morning, but

throughout the night they are uncomfortable.

 

One side is more tender than the other and it is so

very tender that she has to breath a lot to get him on

her breast. I noticed a physical/energetic tension

here that I will continue to address with bodywork and

craniosacral therapy.

 

She asked how to determine whether there is thrush.

 

Again, it is such a joy to see a mom's

intelligence/instincts emerge and her radiance while

holding her child. This truly is one of the great

rewards of doing this work.

 

Thanks also for the bit I know about being a

postpartum doula. I am grateful to be sensitive to

her many needs as I enter their home. From preparing

a simple meal, or helping her measure her breasts for

nursing bras, I am grateful to be available in anyway

possible to help this new family. And, I am grateful

to have a few tools that I have learned from this

group and Ysha in my tool bag.

 

Long message......wishing the best to you all and

thanking you for your experience and heartfelt

sharing.

 

Warmly,

 

Kim Luchau

infant/mom craniosacral therapist

Kaua'i, Hawaii

phone: 808.822.4644

>

[Guest guest]

The fact that it bothers her in the night is a further sign of thrush. There

really is not a good definitive test to prove thrush, but history is a strong

indicator.

Often when baby's fall asleep they break the suction and then start sucking

again but are then on the tip of the nipple and simply MUST be disconnected and

re-latched. Also he might have to burp which will make him squirm and break the

suction but then want to continue the suction on the tip. She has to take babe

off and burp him and re-latch him with the correct latch. All the info on Ysha's

site should be followed and in time the yeast will go away, but only if both mom

and baby are treated at once.

Thrush in the baby's mouth often looks like curds or patches that can be scraped

off with a finger nail, leaving a slightly sore spot for the baby. The moms

nipple might only look a bit whitish or maybe just a little shiny and dry.

 

Vicky York, IBCLC, CPD

Postpartum Care Services

Portland, Oregon

http://mypeoplepc.com/members/vmyork/

www.ikarma.com/user/vmyork

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dearest Vicky,

 

I so appreciate all of your expertise and sharing!

 

The mom's nipple looked pale in color. I looked for

shine, but did not see any.

 

Your tip about burping may be very helpful. Last week

she did not know how to burp at all and wasn't. She

was shocked that when I held the baby and began softly

bouncing him he burped four times. She seemed more

comfortable and adept at holding him in general today.

I was glad to see her rocking him from side to side

to burp him. I will make this suggestion to her.

 

He definitely begins to sleep and breaks suction. She

is disconnecting him to re-latch.

 

So when you say history I am assuming you mean like in

this case the mom saying she's recently known of her

own candida imbalance.

 

I am not sure the white coating on the baby's upper

palate can be scraped. It appears quite thin.

 

I will pass on the suggestions for thrush treatment.

 

Again, thank you!

 

Kim Luchau

infant/mom craniosacral therapist

Kaua'i, Hawaii

phone: 822.4644

 

--- VMYORK wrote:

 

> The fact that it bothers her in the night is a

> further sign of thrush. There really is not a good

> definitive test to prove thrush, but history is a

> strong indicator.

> Often when baby's fall asleep they break the suction

> and then start sucking again but are then on the tip

> of the nipple and simply MUST be disconnected and

> re-latched. Also he might have to burp which will

> make him squirm and break the suction but then want

> to continue the suction on the tip. She has to take

> babe off and burp him and re-latch him with the

> correct latch. All the info on Ysha's site should be

> followed and in time the yeast will go away, but

> only if both mom and baby are treated at once.

> Thrush in the baby's mouth often looks like curds or

> patches that can be scraped off with a finger nail,

> leaving a slightly sore spot for the baby. The moms

> nipple might only look a bit whitish or maybe just a

> little shiny and dry.

>

> Vicky York, IBCLC, CPD

> Postpartum Care Services

> Portland, Oregon

> http://mypeoplepc.com/members/vmyork/

> www.ikarma.com/user/vmyork

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

[Guest guest]

After burping there will be more room in his stomach and he will stay latched on

and suck again. If he has an air bubble in his stomach he will think he is full

and stop nursing in earnest.

The white you see on his mouth may just be breastmilk, if you are looking right

after nursing.

Yes, the history of all the symptoms you have described so far seem to indicate

thrush, such as the antibiotics and her past history of having yeast and the

pain between feedings, etc.

By the way, you are sending multiple copies of your posts to the group somehow.

Vicky

 

Vicky York, IBCLC, CPD

Postpartum Care Services

Portland, Oregon

http://mypeoplepc.com/members/vmyork/

www.ikarma.com/user/vmyork

-

kim luchau

ayurveda

Thursday, June 12, 2008 11:29 PM

Re: PerinatalAyurveda forum Re: nipple soreness and candida more info

 

 

Dearest Vicky,

 

I so appreciate all of your expertise and sharing!

 

The mom's nipple looked pale in color. I looked for

shine, but did not see any.

 

Your tip about burping may be very helpful. Last week

she did not know how to burp at all and wasn't. She

was shocked that when I held the baby and began softly

bouncing him he burped four times. She seemed more

comfortable and adept at holding him in general today.

I was glad to see her rocking him from side to side

to burp him. I will make this suggestion to her.

 

He definitely begins to sleep and breaks suction. She

is disconnecting him to re-latch.

 

So when you say history I am assuming you mean like in

this case the mom saying she's recently known of her

own candida imbalance.

 

I am not sure the white coating on the baby's upper

palate can be scraped. It appears quite thin.

 

I will pass on the suggestions for thrush treatment.

 

Again, thank you!

 

Kim Luchau

infant/mom craniosacral therapist

Kaua'i, Hawaii

phone: 822.4644

 

--- VMYORK wrote:

 

> The fact that it bothers her in the night is a

> further sign of thrush. There really is not a good

> definitive test to prove thrush, but history is a

> strong indicator.

> Often when baby's fall asleep they break the suction

> and then start sucking again but are then on the tip

> of the nipple and simply MUST be disconnected and

> re-latched. Also he might have to burp which will

> make him squirm and break the suction but then want

> to continue the suction on the tip. She has to take

> babe off and burp him and re-latch him with the

> correct latch. All the info on Ysha's site should be

> followed and in time the yeast will go away, but

> only if both mom and baby are treated at once.

> Thrush in the baby's mouth often looks like curds or

> patches that can be scraped off with a finger nail,

> leaving a slightly sore spot for the baby. The moms

> nipple might only look a bit whitish or maybe just a

> little shiny and dry.

>

> Vicky York, IBCLC, CPD

> Postpartum Care Services

> Portland, Oregon

> http://mypeoplepc.com/members/vmyork/

> www.ikarma.com/user/vmyork

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hello Wonderful Group,

 

Another report about the new mom with nipple soreness.

She is improving. We are not suspecting thrush, at

least at this point. It seems best for her to not

have another thing to obsess about, and her breasts

are beginning to feel better, slowly. The midwife

noticed that she was pulling the baby off her breasts

frequently and readjusting. We think she may have

irritated her nipples in doing this. His latch is so

good and she is more comfortable and relaxed, so now

she is simply letting him nurse.

 

This Wednesday will be 40 or 42 days since the birth.

The mom has been getting daily massages, mostly with

oil for the past four days. This is making a huge

huge difference. When she recently learned about the

sacred window she got very concerned that she missed

it. Today she asked if she could simply begin it at

day 35, since she did, and continue for the subsequent

40 days. Knowing her, and her tendency to worry and

obsess, I thought this seemed like a reasonable idea.

 

She is concerned she has missed something precious and

important in getting a late start. I keep reassuring

her what she is doing now is so very beneficial.

 

Can anyone comment on her plan? What can be gained,

and between us, what has been missed.

 

I found that her chest tension corresponded with

nipple soreness. As I massaged her chest with oil,

she said she could feel her breast relaxing. She said

last time I worked on her upper body she had lots more

milk when she nursed.

 

With gratitude for this forum,

 

Kim Luchau

Infant/Mom Craniosacral Therapist

Kaua'i, Hawaii

Phone: 808-822-4644

[Guest guest]

Hello Group,

 

The mother with nipple soreness is asking some

questions in regard to some of the information I

shared with her from the group. I hope you can help

me provide her the answers.

 

First, she says nipple soreness at night seems most

related to having full breasts, otherwise the pain is

similar day and night.

 

Second, as I wrote a couple of days ago, she asks

could she still benefit from 42 days of sacred care

now that she is at the end of week 5 since the baby

was born.

 

Here's her third question (she is referring to

Ananga-manjari's note below.

 

" HI,

Do I do this before breast feeding, or anytime. is it

for the whole breast or just the nipple? Can the baby

feed right after doing this/ can he suck on the salt

or tea? How long do I apply the cloths for? I assume

the water or cloths are supposed to be hot? The only

thing with that is that my nipples feel so warm and it

seems like cool water is better.

Thanks for clarifying! "

 

> Hi,

> For the soreness (which I experiences with my

> first), I'd recommend

> applying wash cloths with salt water and alternate

> that with chamolie

> tea. I've even just dunked my breasts into a cup

> full of salt water or

> chamomile tea. Works like a charm!

>

> Breast wishes,

> Ananga-manjari

 

 

Thanks again for the assistance!

 

Warmly,

 

Kim Luchau

Infant/Mom Craniosacral & Massage

Kaua'i, Hawaii

Phone: 808.822.4644

[Guest guest]

If her pain is due to full breasts make sure she nurses no less often than every

3 hours during the day. If she pumps in addition or nurses him every hour or 2

she may have caused an over supply. Her situation is difficult to assess long

distance. She really should sit down with a lactation consultant and talk about

it all.

If baby is not sleeping with her she does need to swaddle him. Making sure he is

VERY warm will help a lot with the sleeping. V

 

Vicky York, IBCLC, CPD

Postpartum Care Services

Portland, Oregon

http://mypeoplepc.com/members/vmyork/

www.ikarma.com/user/vmyork

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thank you, Vicky!

 

--- VMYORK wrote:

 

> If her pain is due to full breasts make sure she

> nurses no less often than every 3 hours during the

> day. If she pumps in addition or nurses him every

> hour or 2 she may have caused an over supply. Her

> situation is difficult to assess long distance. She

> really should sit down with a lactation consultant

> and talk about it all.

> If baby is not sleeping with her she does need to

> swaddle him. Making sure he is VERY warm will help a

> lot with the sleeping. V

>

> Vicky York, IBCLC, CPD

> Postpartum Care Services

> Portland, Oregon

> http://mypeoplepc.com/members/vmyork/

> www.ikarma.com/user/vmyork

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

>

[Guest guest]

ayurveda , kim luchau <jivanimark

wrote:

Hi Jivani -

 

> First, she says nipple soreness at night seems most

> related to having full breasts, otherwise the pain is

> similar day and night.

 

Much great advice is being shared and I leave that conversation to the

rest - still, if pain is throughout the nursing and not just with let

down and initial latch, look to candida in mom.

>

> Second, as I wrote a couple of days ago, she asks

> could she still benefit from 42 days of sacred care

> now that she is at the end of week 5 since the baby

> was born.

 

Yes, of course she can benefit from doing focused postpartum dietary,

massage, herbal, rest and other rejuvenative care similar to the

recommendations for the first 42 days. The benefit will most

definitely be felt and valuable on many layers. The influences of

choices in the early weeks will be greatly mitigated if that is

needed. Some of the deeper tissue aging may not be so quickly

reversed, yet panchakarma and these postpartum specialized cleansing

and rejuvenative type practices such as these are deeply powerful.

 

It will be best to do some more formal Ayurvedic assessment for her

and tailor the program more for where she is now. She probably does

not need so many days though if it works for the family, such a

blessing! Setting a definite routine of days and protocols will be

very helpful to reset any weak habits that have been cultivated or

even which she grew up with which don't serve. She won't have to be

so exact about the foods by weeks postpartum, unless very constipated

weak and easily chilled or otherwise super vata sensitive.

 

There will be similar recommendations for her now, although the 6 week

very gradual work with digestive " fires " and foods and starting with

such simple and mushy foods can be forshortened. Her agni probably

does need attention and one would take into account at this point also

the climate and prakruti/vikruti.

 

She does sound like a mama with some pitta or is it just anxiety?

Again the value of a direct local consultation. This comes to mind -

If pitta, she is more likely than in the first 6 weeks to change her

mind how many days she wants, and even get a little bored or be

particularly appreciative of use of several of the essential oils to

support her inner directedness in a way that still feels freeing.

 

We were taught that often it is fine to do a gentle system of

panchakarma once Mama is 6 weeks or more postpartum. Undoubtedly our

dear " resident " vaidyas will have refinements on this.

 

I too wonder about how Anga-manjari used the salt water. My

inclination with the inflammatory reacton on her nipples is to make it

lukewarm instead of hot, as I believe you and she are living in

tropics also, yet with postpartum vata, cold is almost always

contraindicated.

 

Namaste;

Ysha