introduction and question re: doshas and menstrual cycle

[Guest guest]

Greetings,

 

I have just received the Ayurdoula correspondence

course and am excited to begin this course of study.

A bit about me: an informal student of ayurveda and

natural healing for many years, I am looking to

solidify my knowledge with this beautiful healing

modaility. I have been a birth doula in the past, and

have recently trained as a natrual chef. I am looking

to offer my services as a personal chef to my local

midwives clients, and would like to train as a

postpartum doula. I've recently returned from my first

visit to India, where I was lucky to spend 1 week at

an Ayurvedic resort as well as make pilgrimages to

many south Indian temples. I have a 12 1/2 year old

daughter and a partner of almost 9 years. I live in

the SF bay area.

 

My question is this: in reading the Foundations of

Ayurvedic Medicine,

the menstrual cycle is described in this way in

regards to dosha dominance: (pp 19)

 

vata = ovulation to pre-menstrual

pitta = bleeding;

kapha= post menstrual to ovulation.

 

However, I have read in other sources that vata =

menstruation/bleeding (with apana vayu pushing the

menstrum down and out); and pitta = ovulation; with

kapha remaining post menstrual to ovulation.

 

Which is correct and why? Any clarity on this greatly

appreciated!

 

Namaste,

Kristina

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Dear Kristina;

As often happens when we muse deeper, both can be understood as

correct. This is a very good question! The reference in your study

notes was illustration of many ways doshic theory can be

applied/looked at including not only seasons and times of life, but

even within the times of a day, or the parts of menstrual cycle.

 

Women have a dryer time of the month reflected in the tissues which is

post ovulation, compared to the building of tissue going on

preovulation in preparation for a good nest with conception. Estrogen

When one begins studying women's health care and Ayurveda, there is so

much more practical and fascinating information to learn, such as the

VP and K types of menstrual cramps and their management, for instance.

 

It is seen in the types or quantity of cervical mucuous produced thru

the cycle also, with absence being the norm post ovulation. Bleeding,

aside from accidents, cuts and the like, is understood as a pitta

function or disorder. In this case, the general function of

menstruation is a time of increased pitta.

 

It is also true however that as vata governs change and apana vayu,

vata is involved with menstruation. And ovulation is a peak hormonal

time when passions of course go along with by our nature's desire to

concieve, so pitta in that way is heightened for a window around the

most fertile days. Life is found in layers, and we can look at doshic

theory in many ways. The Ayurvedic pulse assessment looks at doshas

in 7 layers of the pulse, when we take into consideration also the

doshic significance of the 20 gunas may be felt also at each layer to

the skilled practitioner.

 

All doshas are in some way involved in the body throughout the

menstrual cycle as they govern many functions in the body and in each

organ system. So, the material you were reading that day was a big

picture intro to Ayurvedic theory, its scope and primary principles.

 

A great practitioners beginning on Women's Health/Ayurveda is taught

annually in Boulder, CO by experienced staff, over 2 weekends. I've

studied with them, though it has not been my primary focus with

clients as a postpartum doula.builds, progesterone becomes dominant

afterwards.

 

Glad to hear your enthusiasm in learning! These musings for this mama

should inspire deeper investigation, with your heartfelt commitment to

service to the mamas of your community.

 

Warmly;

Ysha

 

> My question is this: in reading the Foundations of Ayurvedic

Medicine, the menstrual cycle is described in this way in

> regards to dosha dominance: (pp 19)

>

> vata = ovulation to pre-menstrual

> pitta = bleeding;

> kapha= post menstrual to ovulation.

>

> However, I have read in other sources that vata

=menstruation/bleeding (with apana vayu pushing the

> menstrum down and out); and pitta = ovulation; with

> kapha remaining post menstrual to ovulation.

>

> Which is correct and why? Any clarity on this greatly appreciated!

[Guest guest]

Dear Group,

 

Jumping into the conversation regarding menses, I have

a question that may or may not be within the scope of

the group.

 

I have been told by an ayurvedic practitioner who

specializes in Pancha Karma that a woman should not

receive massage during menses bleeding. I have

wondered about doing self-abyanga, does this

restriction/or perhaps better said, flow with bodily

changes. Is it best to take a break from self-massage

also during menses? For some the body gets so

challenged and uncomfortable at this time that such

self-care intuitively makes sense.

 

Respectfully submitted,

 

Kim Luchau

 

> menstrual cycle.

>

 

> > vata = ovulation to pre-menstrual

> > pitta = bleeding;

> > kapha= post menstrual to ovulation.

> >

> > However, I have read in other sources that vata

> =menstruation/bleeding (with apana vayu pushing the

> > menstrum down and out); and pitta = ovulation;

> with

> > kapha remaining post menstrual to ovulation.

> >

> > Which is correct and why? Any clarity on this

> greatly appreciated!

>

>

 

 

 

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____

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know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

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[Guest guest]

Hi Kim,

 

I have always been instructed by Vaidyas to not do abhyanga during

menses. I have also been told that Thursday and Sunday should be " dry "

days. So use little to no oil in cooking, and no abhyanga.

 

Now the experts can tell us more about the why!!!

 

Blissfully yours,

Patti

 

Patti Garland

Ayurvedic Chef

Bliss Kitchen

http://www.BlissKitchen.com

(760) 238-6451

 

 

 

 

On Feb 22, 2008, at 7:16 PM, kim luchau wrote:

 

Dear Group,

 

Jumping into the conversation regarding menses, I have

a question that may or may not be within the scope of

the group.

 

I have been told by an ayurvedic practitioner who

specializes in Pancha Karma that a woman should not

receive massage during menses bleeding. I have

wondered about doing self-abyanga, does this

restriction/or perhaps better said, flow with bodily

changes. Is it best to take a break from self-massage

also during menses? For some the body gets so

challenged and uncomfortable at this time that such

self-care intuitively makes sense.

 

Respectfully submitted,

 

Kim Luchau

 

> menstrual cycle.

>

 

> > vata = ovulation to pre-menstrual

> > pitta = bleeding;

> > kapha= post menstrual to ovulation.

> >

> > However, I have read in other sources that vata

> =menstruation/bleeding (with apana vayu pushing the

> > menstrum down and out); and pitta = ovulation;

> with

> > kapha remaining post menstrual to ovulation.

> >

> > Which is correct and why? Any clarity on this

> greatly appreciated!

>

>

 

________

Be a better friend, newshound, and

know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

http://mobile./;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> I have been told by an ayurvedic practitioner who

> specializes in Pancha Karma that a woman should not

> receive massage during menses bleeding. I have

 

I have never received a satisfactory answer about this either. One way

to look at it is that menstruation is a natural panchakarma: we give

abhyanga before, but not during the main treatment. The idea is that

snehana (oleation) conflicts with shodhana (cleansing).

 

However, in my practice, I allow a woman to decide for herself if she

wants a massage or not. My belief is that she can best choose what is

good for herself, and especially more so in the relaxed states during

massage. I usually give a much more gentle massage if a woman is

menstruating, avoiding the pelvic area or giving smooth strokes down

the abdomen and back, " encouraging " apana vata.

 

I allow my intuition to guide my massage, just as I honour a woman's

intuition to guide her choices. So far I have never had reports of

adverse effects. In fact, I have several times induced menstruation

through massage - twice in women who hadn't had a period in over six

months! So it must be helping apana vata!

 

Apana vata isn't something mysterious and elusive. If a woman feels

comfortable during massage, I am sure her apana vata is fine as well.

Come on girls, take ownership of your bodies!

 

Having said that, if someone comes up with a convincing reason for

absolutely avoiding massage during menses, I will listen.

 

Best regards,

 

Gerald Lopez

Ayurveda & Yoga consultant

Auckland,

New Zealand.

[Guest guest]

Hi Gerald -

As I understand it, it is like food combining. Some goes well

together, other things have different enough style of digestoin or

kind of opposite enzymes or something, that they don't go well

together. Menses is a specific type of blood cleansing among other

things. PK is quite different way of purifying toxins out of the

body, engaging skin, lymph, even apan pran in different ways - kind of

like horizontal instead of the downward action focus, even though

basti and keeping bowels moving is always part of cleansing, this is

thru the female system. So it makes sense as a general rule to me to

keep them separate.

 

The real discussion on the " Red Tent " approach to menstruation from

multiple cultures I've been exposed is that that type of cleansing is

very powerful, sacred and important to the woman, but it also holds a

very wide energetic door open for those who don't have the addition of

the menstrual blood letting to what can become confusing or even dark

places.

 

Native American ceremony - classical anyway - forbids menstrual women

in the sweat lodge, or other ceremony. To both honor the woman (the

heat could increase bleeding more, I don't know if massage might) and

to honor the others in the tent. I've attended one where that was not

honored, and I was not the only one there noticed a weakening of the

sattvic spiritual side; lots of good words, prayers and songs, but the

energy was not clean. That unclean aspect is not truely about the

woman, but about the power and energetic doorways held open of the

purifications she is experiencing, which for others is not appropriate

obviously their bodies are not going there, and the power of her

energy overshadows where their spiritual process/attention is better

accomplished/more naturally experienced. Does this make sense? Kinda

hard to talk about.

 

That said, of course there are exceptions, such as you cited about

delayed menses, lots of pelvic ama may need more stimulation than the

recommended rest, or other methods to remove it (castor oil packs,

herbs, massage, I've even experienced horseback riding, such a no no

at that time, seemed to have had benefit to release some of the

mental/emotional and physical combined prana muddiness of that time,

but would not or very rarely recommend it!)

 

RE trusting the client " intuition " . My experience is that there are

such thought forms in our culture that generally most women have

little understanding of what is really good guidance at that time

until they experience it. Until I was hmm, late 30s or maybe early

40s, I'd no exposure to " menstrual days off " ideas. When I noticed,

those were the days I burned food and life in the office was very

stressful for everyone. When I took 3 days off, those days were

instantly better for everyone, I was embarrassed to see. It was

similar principle of course as if we are tired, what we radiate vs

restedness. Or if we are preoccupied with some other business, we are

not as effective or valuable to our immediate environment. Anyway,

I'm less likely to invite a woman's " intuition " or " feeling " about it,

knowing these things. Which puts us more in trust of Nature's

organizing power around unexpected cancellations on income from a

client, etc. That part is not as easy to accept, some of these older

ways and " Indian Time " !

 

I find Ayurveda is a significant aid to wake up our self-knowledge,

with the knowledge base serving to clarify the experience, and the

experiences verifying the knowledge.

 

Warm REgards;

Ysha

 

> I have never received a satisfactory answer about this either. One

way to look at it is that menstruation is a natural panchakarma: we

give abhyanga before, but not during the main treatment. The idea is

that snehana (oleation) conflicts with shodhana (cleansing).

[Guest guest]

Hi Ysha,

 

Thank you for your patient and considered reply. I do understand - in

the best way a bloke like me can understand! - what you are saying

about heightened sensitivity during menses. I experience the

implications every month!

 

To put what I said in perspective, we need to compare a woman who

continues " crazy time " , pushing through work, etc in stressful ways

during her periods, with a woman who honours that menstrual time and

goes into contemplation and quiet periods.

 

For many women, even a massage is a form of retiring from normal

hectic activity, and may feel appropriate. It may help her get more in

touch with herself, and to relax into her own space. In this case,

being deprived of massage and touch because of an obscure rule, may

not have served the woman well.

 

Rules need to be understood, otherwise they are superstitions and go

down in history as such. Is a vaidya who practises something without

understanding really a vaidya? Once rules are understood, their

exceptions - of which there certainly will be - will become obvious.

 

I am inviting women - and men - to explore their own undestanding of

themselves rather than following poorly-understood rules. We all have

the ability to know what we need exactly, we just need to develop the

confidence to listen to ourselves.

 

I always assume a client is intelligent. I also often see when she is

fooling herself. I need to guide the client gently in this, and help

her find the truth.

 

Ayurveda is a wonderful body of knowledge, which needs to be studied

deeply to understand how natural and intuitive it really is. In the

end, only our own " intellect " can tell us how to go about our own

lives. This is where I am coming from, and what I write about.

 

Warmest regards,

Gerald.

 

 

 

 

> I'm less likely to invite a woman's " intuition " or " feeling " about it,

> knowing these things. Which puts us more in trust of Nature's

> organizing power around unexpected cancellations on income from a

>

>

> I find Ayurveda is a significant aid to wake up our self-knowledge,

> with the knowledge base serving to clarify the experience, and the

> experiences verifying the knowledge.