ayurveda and raw foods

[Guest guest]

hello and nanamste everyone,

 

please forgive me if this is not the proper forum for posting this

question,

 

i am wondering if anyone has experience with ayurveda's perspective

on the modern " raw & living foods " philosophy. i clearly understand

(and follow) ayurvedic nutrition prinicpals when it comes to keeping

my vata-pitta constitution in balance , espically in my just ending

postpartum phase (we are still breastfeeding) & in my ayurvedically

inspired postpartum doula services. BUT....i ask because the recent

information in the raw food scene & information on enzymes makes a

few very good points. ( my husband is an experienced raw food

chef...in our family we eat a combination of both cooked foods and

raw foods.) i can post links to articles about the medical dangers

eating cooked foor presents and also on just how enzymes really work.

 

here is the only well written article i have found bringing the two

together.raw foods and an ayurvedic perspective...

http://www.living-foods.com/articles/ayurveda.html

 

i am also familiar with gabriel cousins......this also brings me to

the question of milk and the ayurvedic

perspective....http://www.treeoflife.nu/whydairy

he makes an excellent point that milk, was at one time in

inida, " rasa " but the modern dairy industry has turned milk and dairy

products into total " ama " ...please see the article if you are

interested he is much better at explaining this point of view.

 

i know all of this is highly contriversial and i am not looking to

stir up anyone but am really seeking the wisdom of my ayurvedic

mentors- vidyas on this list as i begin to serve my

ayurvedic clients.

 

thank you , i look forward to all comments and critics.

 

jai ma!

jayashree noel

 

ps sorry i dont have time to check for errors with my daughter at my

feet:)

[Guest guest]

Namaste,

 

We humans are the only species that consume the mother's milk of another

animal. According to some notable authors, cow's milk is poison to the body

and

does create ama in the body. Read John Robbins book " Diet For A New

America " and T. Colin Cambpbell's book " The China Study " for interesting and

revealing studies about the destructiveness of casein (milk protein). As a

postpartum mother, part of the care was the prescriptive warm milk with spices

and

ghee and I am respectfully questioning the amount of milk I was consuming

during that time and the benefits of its consumption. My liver was in toxic

overload which was proved by the rash all over my body. Could it be that the

ancients were wrong about the use of animal products? It is our duty as modern

rational people to probe and reveal. The consumption of predominantly raw

whole plant based foods is proven to be superior to the human body. I will

apologize ahead of time to those I might offend, this is a provocative subject.

 

Om Shanti

Judy Manz

 

 

 

 

**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.

(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002\

5

48)

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Jayashree,

 

Thanks for you enquiry, and there's no need to apologise for letting

the cat loose among the pigeons! I thought I might share my ideas,

aware that I may be telling you what you already know, and that I may

be stepping on people's toes!.

 

It would be interesting to see the information about enzymes and the

dangers of eating cooked food. The question is - how bioavailable are

these enzymes to a wide range of people?

 

Ayurveda is concerned about the digestibility of foods - poor

digestibility of food, or poor digestive ability of people, not only

deprives the body of nutrition but also builds up the Ama (toxins) you

mentioned. Thus ayurveda suggests that processing and cooking certain

foods helps in their digestion and assimilation.

 

I have found that patients with delicate digestion were unable to eat

fruits. When I suggested they stewed the fruits, they found them easy

to digest. This applied also to other raw foods.

 

Looking at the qualities of foods, raw food like muesli, fruits,

salads etc tends to be cold, light, rough and dry (non-unctuous).

These are the very qualities of vata, and thus are vata-increasing.

People with vata constitution or conditions would fare better with

vata-reducing foods: hot, heavy, smooth, sweet, and unctuous.

 

Ayurveda divides foods, medicines and therapies into Cleansing

(Apatarpana) and Building or Nourishing (Santarpana). Raw foods tend

to be cleansing - and thus depleting in the long run. Excess cleansing

leads to depletion of rasa and other tissues, and eventually ojas or

immune factor.

 

When considering perinatal women, we can see that it is all about

growth and building. It would be contraindicated to give a pregnant

woman cleansing and depleting foods. Likewise, parturition affects

Apana Vata, leaving most women vata-imbalanced after giving birth. All

traditions recommend warm, heavy, unctuous, nourishing foods after

giving birth.

 

So, according to ayurveda, kapha people shouldn't eat raw foods

because they have poor digestion. Vata people shouldn't because raw

foods increase vata. Pregnant and post-partum women too should balance

raw foods with cooked foods. This leaves pitta people who should do

okay with it, I suppose!

 

I speak as someone who followed Leslie Kenton's Raw Food Bible about

20 years ago. I notice that in her later books she moderated the

recommended proportion of raw to cooked foods.

 

Milk is an even stickier issue because it brings up questions of

morality and ethics, as exemplified by Gabriel Cousens' website

article. Ultimately, I feel that these are subjective (and emotive)

issues, and people should go by how they feel.

 

To me, milk is full of rasa even though it has been processed. It is

preferably taken warm, spiced and in moderation. Here in New Zealand I

recommend full cream unhomogenised organic milk called Naturalea.

 

Milk is a source of vitamin D and full vitamin A, as well as useful

saturated fats. 40-60% of urban americans are vitamin D deficient, and

many people cannot convert betacarotenes into needed vitamin A.

 

When talking about what are the right foods for people, ayurveda says

that the wise practitioner should consider Satmya - or how used the

body is to the food. What is nourishing for a group of people is

indigestible to another group. I very rarely encourage radical changes

in diet or lifestyle, especially in older people. Don't forget the

oldest woman on record smoked and drank alcohol every day!

 

Has any of you vaidyas told an Italian with raging pitta to give up

tomatoes, pizza, wine and cheese?

 

I guess I tend to be liberal about food. The most health-giving part

about food, in my mind, is the enjoyment of it. You don't have to

follow any swami's preachings, just be aware of how you respond to

different foods, and listen to your body - it is your best guide.

 

Cheers,

Gerald.

Auckland, New Zealand

[Guest guest]

ayurveda , " Gerald Lopez "

<peninjau+ wrote:

>

> Hi Jayashree,

>

> Thanks for you enquiry, and there's no need to apologise for

letting

> the cat loose among the pigeons! I thought I might share my ideas,

> aware that I may be telling you what you already know, and that I

may

> be stepping on people's toes!.

>

> It would be interesting to see the information about enzymes and

the

> dangers of eating cooked food. The question is - how bioavailable

are

> these enzymes to a wide range of people?

>

> Ayurveda is concerned about the digestibility of foods - poor

> digestibility of food, or poor digestive ability of people, not

only

> deprives the body of nutrition but also builds up the Ama (toxins)

you

> mentioned. Thus ayurveda suggests that processing and cooking

certain

> foods helps in their digestion and assimilation.

>

> I have found that patients with delicate digestion were unable to

eat

> fruits. When I suggested they stewed the fruits, they found them

easy

> to digest. This applied also to other raw foods.

>

> Looking at the qualities of foods, raw food like muesli, fruits,

> salads etc tends to be cold, light, rough and dry (non-unctuous).

> These are the very qualities of vata, and thus are vata-increasing.

> People with vata constitution or conditions would fare better with

> vata-reducing foods: hot, heavy, smooth, sweet, and unctuous.

>

> Ayurveda divides foods, medicines and therapies into Cleansing

> (Apatarpana) and Building or Nourishing (Santarpana). Raw foods

tend

> to be cleansing - and thus depleting in the long run. Excess

cleansing

> leads to depletion of rasa and other tissues, and eventually ojas

or

> immune factor.

>

> When considering perinatal women, we can see that it is all about

> growth and building. It would be contraindicated to give a pregnant

> woman cleansing and depleting foods. Likewise, parturition affects

> Apana Vata, leaving most women vata-imbalanced after giving birth.

All

> traditions recommend warm, heavy, unctuous, nourishing foods after

> giving birth.

>

> So, according to ayurveda, kapha people shouldn't eat raw foods

> because they have poor digestion. Vata people shouldn't because raw

> foods increase vata. Pregnant and post-partum women too should

balance

> raw foods with cooked foods. This leaves pitta people who should do

> okay with it, I suppose!

>

> I speak as someone who followed Leslie Kenton's Raw Food Bible

about

> 20 years ago. I notice that in her later books she moderated the

> recommended proportion of raw to cooked foods.

>

> Milk is an even stickier issue because it brings up questions of

> morality and ethics, as exemplified by Gabriel Cousens' website

> article. Ultimately, I feel that these are subjective (and emotive)

> issues, and people should go by how they feel.

>

> To me, milk is full of rasa even though it has been processed. It

is

> preferably taken warm, spiced and in moderation. Here in New

Zealand I

> recommend full cream unhomogenised organic milk called Naturalea.

>

> Milk is a source of vitamin D and full vitamin A, as well as useful

> saturated fats. 40-60% of urban americans are vitamin D deficient,

and

> many people cannot convert betacarotenes into needed vitamin A.

>

> When talking about what are the right foods for people, ayurveda

says

> that the wise practitioner should consider Satmya - or how used the

> body is to the food. What is nourishing for a group of people is

> indigestible to another group. I very rarely encourage radical

changes

> in diet or lifestyle, especially in older people. Don't forget the

> oldest woman on record smoked and drank alcohol every day!

>

> Has any of you vaidyas told an Italian with raging pitta to give up

> tomatoes, pizza, wine and cheese?

>

> I guess I tend to be liberal about food. The most health-giving

part

> about food, in my mind, is the enjoyment of it. You don't have to

> follow any swami's preachings, just be aware of how you respond to

> different foods, and listen to your body - it is your best guide.

>

> Cheers,

> Gerald.

> Auckland, New Zealand

>

Greetings ones,

I am new to the study of Ayurveda way of life but I

have been a vegetarian, raw foodist, and what you say octo-

vegetarian. What it comes down to for me is the inherit ever

changing wisdom of my own intuition that has guided me in many

things including my diet. I think as care providers, doulas doctors

or whatever title one gains in ones life is to have a view of each

person as an individual and always with respect honor thier own

inherit wisdom about themselves.

We as a human race are very differnt and ever evovling, I

belive the ancients belive this also. I am also in agreeance with

Gerald about ones mentality if you belive something not to be good

for your body please don't consume it regardless of what text tells

you so .

Jahmanna

[Guest guest]

Dearest Judy;

 

It is good we talk this prevocative subject out further! You and I

began and got interrupted by some other needs, as I remember, so I'm

doubly happy to hear from you. Big inhale for big topic, and only a

few minutes to begin.

 

Brief thoughts on the moral perspective come to mind. Probably all

species eat the " uterus " or fruits of other species, many eat the

flesh of other species, Do not all eat of the seeds, and where does

this discussion take us? Yes, the gift of milk is very sacred stuff,

and should be respected as such!

 

Its use in the west especially is under respected and way over and

mis- used even amongst most organics. One " organic " company, Horizon,

many of us as you know are boycotting, last I heard still does not

give their cows proper sunshine and green fields to enjoy their lives

in healthy way.

 

I have heard of multiple stories however of the young of one species

suckling the mother of another, to life saving and healthy (albeit

sometimes species confusing)benefit. The doshic and other properties

of species varieties of milk is also much more notable than what can

happen within the milk of different humans or with even different

dietary intake of one mom.

 

As Dr. Bhate has pointed out, in India the use is not only sacred and

much less quantity, but the cows themselves usually a beloved family

member, giving totally different energetics on many levels. Not just

about milk, but food grown by happy farmers, cooked by happy cook, all

these things effect our health. For what value you may find here -

Was it Dr. Bhate? someone made a statement about the spiritual dharma

of cows to give milk to others.

 

It reminds of another such story about the 4 types of animals which

may evolve into human life form most immediately, cows being one of

them. THese ideas may fall into the realm of eastern science, true

Knowing, based on direct non-attitude or believe code based

perception, or it may be something less.

 

Speaking of western science, as you know, I haven't read The China

Study yet. Before going there, the Ayurvedist would like to know 1)

was the study done on oriental peoples? They genetically have poor

ability to digest milk, use of cows/dairy in their diet being so long

so not there. 2) Did the study adjust for or otherwise test for the

issues that from Ayurveda we know influence milk digestion? There are

many ways in which Ayurveda agrees, milk creates toxic ama.

 

THe latter includes things like poor food combinations (there are many

milk does not do well with), cold temperature (the western style

straight out of the fridge), pasteurized (boiling creating a very

different protein digestibility than pasteurizing), Homogenization,

Quality (did they import, was it organic, etc), Use of digestive

seasonings, The Cows' happiness? The preconceptive attitudes around

the study even?

 

If such key things are not attended to in the study, my filters on

reading it would be very strong. Yet I am sincerely interested to

know the key wisdom that was likely shared by what was obviously a

tremendous research project (remembering this impression from our

conversation previous).

 

> We humans are the only species that consume the mother's milk of

another animal. According to some notable authors, cow's milk is

poison to the body and does create ama in the body. Read John

Robbins book " Diet For A New America " and T. Colin Cambpbell's book

 

Milk is one of the cooling/pitta as well as vata reducing items, not

rash producing. Your situation after Luca's birth followed many

months of raw food intake. Did you switch completely right after

birth, or was it gradual? The vatagenic influences of both the Cbirth

and that diet may be part of the challenges you were experiencing in

your early postpartum, and the cleansing aspects of the previous

dietary habits then surgery/(pittagenic) meds with the vulnerable

postpartum state may have provoked the liver overload manifesting in

rash, is my educated guess. Rash and inflammations are signs of pitta

imbalances.

 

I don't know exactly what your milk intake or other dietary factors -

or ama/types of ama issues were, but as you have shared more about

your history after the fact/time of your postpartum care, undoubtedly

having an ayurvedic physician's close monitoring and advice for

guidance on details of the care and diet in your case would have been

best. We do know both vata and pitta were particularly apparent, and

an AyurDoula of course has very limited training in management of

special needs which might be exacerbating the postpartum already

special needs.

 

Certainly if your body was (quite possibly) in mode to release and try

to cleanse the accumulations from the previous years' what we know was

very intense lifestyle, challenged by the immediate post surgery and

postpartum needs, we can begin to visualize multiple bodily confusions

and strain on liver functions. This could include around the normally

beneficial kapha promoting (rebuilding) foods including milk, though

that would manifest differently from rash. I do not remember, did you

say you had enjoyed those things, or did they feel not right?

 

To be continued!

Love,

Ysha

 

>As a postpartum mother, part of the care was the prescriptive warm

milk with spices and ghee and I am respectfully questioning the

amount of milk I was consuming during that time and the benefits of

its consumption. My liver was in toxic overload which was proved by

the rash all over my body. Could it be that the ancients were wrong

[Guest guest]

-

> i am wondering if anyone has experience with ayurveda's perspective

> on the modern " raw & living foods " philosophy. i clearly understand

 

> here is the only well written article i have found bringing the two

> together.raw foods and an ayurvedic perspective...

> http://www.living-foods.com/articles/ayurveda.html

 

Thanks for that link Jayashree, which gives a comprehensive overview

of ayurvedic nutrition.

 

Regarding your question about raw food, and seeing as you suggested

the Tom Billings link, could I also suggest that members look at his

other link - given below - where he talks about his own experience as

a raw foodist.

 

Some moral and ethical reasons were given in this forum (and in the

linked websites), for this or that kind of diet. I would like to point

out that the original ayurvedic texts do not make moral or ethical

judgements on cooked food, eating meat or fish, drinking alcohol, or

even smoking! In fact, the properties of the meat, milk, urine etc of

many animals are given, as are those of different alcoholic beverages.

 

In ayurveda every conceivable food has unique qualities (gunas) which

can serve a therapeutic or nutritional purpose. It is the task of the

ayurvedic practitioner to familiarise himself/herself with these

qualities so that appropriate recommendations can be made.

 

It is often a question of taking a food in moderation to serve its

purpose. Rasayana foods such as milk are such foods - a little helps a

lot, and too much causes disturbance or becomes ama.

 

Vegetarianism is probably a religious phenomenon which came long after

the advent of ayurveda. Raw foodism is hardly, if at all, found in any

traditional culture. Whether these diets lead to greater or more

evolved spiritual states is questionable - I have met many aboriginal

and traditional spiritual leaders who heartily ate meat and drank alcohol.

 

Do you really know what being spiritual or evolved is? Or are you

making assumptions? These are serious questions that I often ask

myself and others. I am not trying to make fun of anyone here, but

encouraging you to seek the truth, which is sometimes beyond our

present understanding.

 

In the context of this forum, I would strongly discourage a raw food

diet for a woman trying to conceive, or who is pregnant, or

postpartum. Instead, I advocate cooked, nutritious foods that are easy

to digest.

 

This is the link to Tom Billings' 30 years experience as a raw

foodist, fruitarian and practitioner of other vegetarian diets:

http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/bio/billings-t-bio-1a.shtml

 

Best regards,

 

Gerald Lopez

Ayurveda & Yoga consultant

Auckland

New Zealand

www.gerald-lopez.com