PK for nursing mother

[Guest guest]

Shirish and Adrienne

Thank you for your input. There is more info I am going to need to

gather on her.

I based her prakriti on what I know of her and see phsysically. SHe

also did an online test and had similar results. After talking with

her today I could tell her nervous system is vata.

She has 2 other children one is 9 the other 15 months. I dont know

how easy it was for her to become pregnant with the ohter 2. I think

she is postpartum depleted. I am going to do some massages and some

food consultation with her I was also thinking a few bastis may have

some value for her. I agree that a mild pancha karma may not be ok so

we talked about her eating habits and cleaning it up.

She does have an apple shape and is carrying extra weight.

 

I will post again soon.

Thanks again,

Sonya

[Guest guest]

I have to add my somewhat different perspective and two cents.

 

First, is my rancor at the use of drugs by women because they are told

the drugs are safe -- anytime, but it's criminal during pregnancy,

labor, birth, and breast feeding. NONE of the drugs used have EVER

been shown to be safe for the gestating, birthing, breast-feeding

baby. I could write a book here.

 

Second, if you have read the Safe Baby Resolution and my questions for

legislators, you know that I support preparing for conception, aware

conception, and I acknowledge a woman's reproductive rights. However,

I believe that socially and morally we need to address the baby's

rights and needs. I find that this is the partnership I share with the

ayurvedic beliefs. I KNOW how hard it is to practice, in this society,

in this time, when we engage with women.

 

SOOOO, my comments, in the form of questions, are: Why is this woman

who is breastfeeding a fifteen month and apparently, reportedly

anyway, " postpartum depleted " trying to conceive another child -- that

is only fifteen months old??

 

Is she trying to space her child exactly two years, for them to have

the same birthday, save a marriage, give herself or her spouse the

opposite gendered child? Or, does she feel pressure to give birth by a

certain age (deemed by medicine to be the cutoff? What is going on

with her? What is this about? Is she even aware of the welcoming of

this soul? (PLEASE, know that I have learned this critical, vital

aspect of conception in my own conception healing; AND, I did not do

conscious conception with my four children -- so, I am the LAST to

judge. I realize that the soul finds the family and womb to create the

journey.)

 

Can you address the emotional reasons for this pressure, when her body

is saying, " NO " , for pursuing this? Is there a soul clamouring to get

in to this not fully functioning (for gestating a healhty being)??

 

There are so many family and relationship dynamics that come from this

sort of situation. There is a question of the fifteen month old

child's need for respectful weaning. Forced weaning to conceive is

good setup for serious wounding for that child and in the context of

the mother relationship and with a sibling dynamic --- AND, here is my

point of my dilemma in this situations I observe over and over, is

this that soul's needs and plans? So, who I am to intefere with my

babble?

 

These are questions and situations I feel the connecting of my work

and your ayurvedic work can address. You have the knowledge of the

ancient wisdom about the soul and life and health that we need to

merge with the current science and prenatal psych. We can seek

solutions together.

 

Respectfully,

 

Janel

 

 

ayurveda , " sonyabastow " <sonya

wrote:

>

> I am looking for some advice to give to a nursing mom who wants to

try

> a mild pk. She is trying to get pregnant again her baby now is 15

> months. She is having problems getting pregnant and I thought pk

might

> help. Pitta/Kapha body type. She is on Lexapro and another med

> starts with an m for helping blood sugar stabilize. She said it is a

> med used for diabetes although she is not diabetic. Is it safe for

> her to do a home pk while on these meds and nursing?

> Thanks,

> Sonya

>

[Guest guest]

I looked up her medication after I posted and I didn't realize she is

taking an antidepressant! What is it they do, Ysha? Lay down Ama

around the brain cells?

 

This seems to be a tricky situation. Would she remain on this

medication as she tried to conceive, and became pregnant? Can you

work in tandem with her prescribing MD?

 

Best,

Adrienne

[Guest guest]

Thank you all for comments and questions that arise for you with this person

I am working with. I am having a more formal meeting with her tomorrow

afternoon to find out more information.

I think that she will be gaining a lot of new knowledge just being exposed

to Ayurveda that are going to be beneficial to her and her family. She is

very open to learning how to care for herself to get herself into a position

that will enable to perhaps conceive again. I certainly don't want to play

like I can fix her situation but hopefully get her going in a direction that

is going to be helpful.

Thanks again,

Sonya

 

Sonya Bastow

MettaDoula

sonya

303.619.5326 cell

303.516.0959 home

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Dear Sonya;

Dr. Bhate's and Janel's questions are good ones, my initial reaction

on reading this was similar to Janel's emotional response! It is a

very ayurvedic perspective, by the way Janel, to take the mother/baby

as a unit into consideration for their well being, both the mother/15

month old couple, and the unconcieved/maternal couple need to be

looked at that way.

 

From the standpoint of nursing a 15 month old, she will want to

seriously consider to wean, do the " PK " (our short way of referring to

panchakarma here in the US, in answer to question by Dr. Bhate and

others) and then rasayana/dietary for rebuild for at least 3 months

before trying to concieve again for long term impact considerations on

all three of the above mentioned. This is of course also giving time

for the most valuable and conscious spiritual intentions as well.

 

As you may remember Sonya, ayurveda by my training suggests that once

a woman is pregnant, if nursing the breastmilk begins to contain

toxins from the pregnancy, in addition to depleting the mother and

unborn more than is wise. (Foundations of postpartum care unit,

nourishing baby chapter) What can I say, this is from what I have

learned and makes sense to me, not direct experience.

 

I know there is a BIG argument the otherway on the Mothering and

Midwifery Today forums, and apparently there are mothers who report

doing very well, and the new baby as well health wise. I also see that

people who eat generously of more grounding, rajasic, and animal foods

who have good active devoted lives often have much more strength and

vitality, which does not take into consideration other spiritual

choices or growth. So the evidence analyzed objectively has to take

many things into account. We would all be interested to hear Dr.

Bhate's advice here I am sure.

 

From the point of view of the blood sugar condition, I will have

thoughts beyond appropriate to discuss here, it would take some sit

down/further questioning for sure, and I am not in any position to

advise about that medication. However it is commonly the case that

blood sugar problems come from high vata lifestyle/dietary habits, as

well as being a common side effect of antidepressant use. WHIch used

first for her, do you know?

 

Regarding the antidepressant use, what I know is that yes, they

accumulate in excess because they work by interferance with the

metabolism of the neurotransmitter, serotonin. The ama created is

said by Dr. Ann Blake Tracey to accumulate around especially the brain

glands ina hard slimy coating. It is my guess this includes

significant amount of the stress-produced cholesterol from the high

cortisol effect of these medicines, and which the body often uses to

neutralize these allopathic and petrochemical type impurities.

 

The coating obscures needed transmission of information and hormonal

signals, creating the feeling often of being " possessed " etc, as well

as inhibiting the ability to feel emotionally. Physically, mentally,

will wise, often ok depending upon side effects including of pitta and

vata type experienced. Yes, the panchakarma multiple modalities help

to loosen and move out even the kinds of ama stored specifically in

lipid type tissues.

 

One of the advantages, for the general audience here, of the

panchakarma cleanse (gently versioned) is very different from western

alternative medicine cleanses, which are very drying, depleting and

vata increasing. We begin with simplified diet, do not fast, and

generally take increasing amounts gradually over 3-8 days usually of

clarified butter first in the am. THis offers very soothing, vata

pacifying, calming effect, while oleating the tissues with more than

(the long burning steady, non-blood sugar swinging fuel effect)

nutritional intake to absorb toxins in a neutral medium, loosen them,

and facilitate with other steps their elimination on multiple levels

of the physiology. Warm oil massages are another key component of PK.

 

It is my understanding and experience that a combination of ama

reducing herbs and diet (which is not so easily a

rejuvenative/building diet, this has to be done carefully and with an

agreed upon time sequential of therapies for a situation like this)and

the panchakarma type cleansing methods is very valuable along side

gradual reduction of dosage and I mean very gradual, over several months.

 

I have to put in here often with this discussion - please refer to the

full disclaimer as in the forum header and regarding reduction of

antidepressant use, it is not our professional training/licensure to

advise. It IS my personal responsibiility and professional interest

that has researched these things towards better understanding, and

found the pandora's box, as well as some very valuable info, as we

discussed previuos. Forgive if I repeat myself here again:

 

THe brain concentrations of antidepressants being so high with months

or years of use, and big " downloads " of the medicine excess into blood

stream so great with sudden withdrawal, even up to 6 months later ,

and cortisol raising influence alone so tremendous, that one can

easily end up in the nut house if not carefully guided and proceeding.

I do know folks who have taken themselves off, a very rocky ride to

go " cold turkey " and they tend to end up back on them even a year or

two back down the road, unfortunately. This I believe more than

anything is because of *****not addressing the vikruti imbalances

which created the need for supportive and balancing therapies in the

first place*****.

 

The ayurvedic rejuvenative therapies directly asses and adress the

doshic imbalances which have created the mood disorders, by whatever

name, to a tremendous degree. With all due respect for other factors

such as minerals, vitamins, structural, emotional etc, the ayurvedic

practices are very powerful. Dr. Saraswati Buhrman of Boulder,

Colorado, is one of the practioners who is very experienced with PPD

and other mood disorders here in the US, and reports very good

success. I have not been able to get feedback from her how long the

followup is in her protocols, but then we know that ayurvedic

protocols may also shorten the needed minimum 6 months gradual

transition time recommended by Dr. Tracey.

 

I have no idea about the diebetic medicine. The encouragement of more

appropriate quality and quantity of good fats (often meaning more) and

leaning more into these with balanced protein, some healthy sweet

taste, generous alkalizing fruits and veggies, instead of the common

habit of leaning more into carbohydrates - even complex " whole grain "

ones - for sustaining the energy continuum, is important component for

avoiding and reversing blood sugar problems from what I see and

understand.

 

This is not to say remove carbs, only lean more on fats than or

carefully take ample with carbs for long burning fuel is one of the

patterns I have seen needs attention. I have read Dr. Bhate's

discussion that other things are also important and offer my due

respect to all this as quite possibly more important. Yet I do see

these patterns with clients and read convincing discussions from well

researched authors such as Dr. Mercola, and Challem/Berkson/Smith in

their book, Syndrome X which offers at least this infor with which we

might nutritionally support our clients.

 

In my opinion, the simple home panchakarma cleanse as is offered in

Dr. LAd's book or we learned in your class would be approprite ONLY IF

a local ayurvedic practitioner (quite possibly you on this first point

with your degree of training) can assess the depletion level of this

client, as well as understand the implications of the two medicines I

am not so familiar with. Dr. Nita Desai, MD there would be wonderful

except I beleive it takes about 2 months to get in to see her now.

Drs. Saraswati or Alecananda Devi would be likely good calls?

Otherwise she may need rebuild and gentler herbal agni supports first.

 

My hope is that in the near future ayurvedic physicians well studied

and bearing the valuable communication qualities of clarity,

experience, respectfulness and calmness can offer the allopathic

community the understanding and specific tools, with the needed repeat

of western contemporary research projects to back them up, to help

address this tremendous tide of overuse of the antidepressants and

bigger misunderstanding what is needed to transition safely off them.

 

Please thank you client for sharing her story, Sonya?

Namaste;

Ysha

[Guest guest]

A solution for fetility and diabetes both

 

ayurveda/message/8049

 

Following more observations:

 

Superpower generally protects a nursing baby, by suppressing

Menstrual cycles till breast feed is continued. This was the state in

good old days, but these days, cycles resume even while a baby is

being nursed. The reasons are estrogen mimicking chemicals in the

environmnet which get stored in adipose tissues of mother. Excess

hormones due to lack of adequate SHBG (Sex hormones binding

globulins) secreted by liver can also be another reason. Excess

hormones may go to baby also through breast feed, and baby may

develoop obesity or precocial puberty and PCOS later. Look how strong

the connection between mother hormonal status and baby's future

fertility. That is why women diagnosed with PCOS frequently have a

mother or sister with similar symptoms commonly associated with PCOS.

 

Since body is converting dhatus built during pregnancy to breast

milk, the excess dhatus are utilised to nourish 'rajas' dhatu, to

make ovum. If dhatus are in excess, this will not cause any harm. God

provides everything even for twins. question is, in this case one is

nourished in womb and one through breast feed. Many a time, second

pregnancy is spontaneous without even a menstrual cycle intervening.

Ovulation is more a result of emotional state driving necessary

hormone secretions rather than some mathematical calendars of modern

science. During breast feeding, mother is like a god loving his all

children.

 

So issues such as depriving existing baby of milk are imaginary. But

in case you do not wish to give birth to a baby who is likely to have

disturbed endocrinal system later, it may be prudent to wait till

first baby stops breast milk. In this case, this baby is lucky to

have the feed for 15 months. This author had for 30 months!!

 

 

ayurveda , " sonyabastow " <sonya

wrote:

>

> I am looking for some advice to give to a nursing mom who wants to

try

> a mild pk. She is trying to get pregnant again her baby now is 15

> months. She is having problems getting pregnant and I thought pk

might

> help. Pitta/Kapha body type. She is on Lexapro and another med

> starts with an m for helping blood sugar stabilize. She said it is

a

> med used for diabetes although she is not diabetic. Is it safe for

> her to do a home pk while on these meds and nursing?

> Thanks,

> Sonya

>

[Guest guest]

Just for you ....

On Thu, 12 Oct 2006 05:35, we received this message from Janel

Martin-Miranda:

> I have to add my somewhat different perspective and two cents.

>

> First, is my rancor at the use of drugs by women because they are told

> the drugs are safe -- anytime, but it's criminal during pregnancy,

> labor, birth, and breast feeding. NONE of the drugs used have EVER

> been shown to be safe for the gestating, birthing, breast-feeding

> baby. I could write a book here.

>

> Second, if you have read the Safe Baby Resolution and my questions for

> legislators, you know that I support preparing for conception, aware

> conception, and I acknowledge a woman's reproductive rights. However,

> I believe that socially and morally we need to address the baby's

> rights and needs. I find that this is the partnership I share with the

> ayurvedic beliefs. I KNOW how hard it is to practice, in this society,

> in this time, when we engage with women.

>

> SOOOO, my comments, in the form of questions, are: Why is this woman

> who is breastfeeding a fifteen month and apparently, reportedly

> anyway, " postpartum depleted " trying to conceive another child -- that

> is only fifteen months old??

>

> Is she trying to space her child exactly two years, for them to have

> the same birthday, save a marriage, give herself or her spouse the

> opposite gendered child? Or, does she feel pressure to give birth by a

> certain age (deemed by medicine to be the cutoff? What is going on

> with her? What is this about? Is she even aware of the welcoming of

> this soul? (PLEASE, know that I have learned this critical, vital

> aspect of conception in my own conception healing; AND, I did not do

> conscious conception with my four children -- so, I am the LAST to

> judge. I realize that the soul finds the family and womb to create the

> journey.)

>

> Can you address the emotional reasons for this pressure, when her body

> is saying, " NO " , for pursuing this? Is there a soul clamouring to get

> in to this not fully functioning (for gestating a healhty being)??

>

> There are so many family and relationship dynamics that come from this

> sort of situation. There is a question of the fifteen month old

> child's need for respectful weaning. Forced weaning to conceive is

> good setup for serious wounding for that child and in the context of

> the mother relationship and with a sibling dynamic --- AND, here is my

> point of my dilemma in this situations I observe over and over, is

> this that soul's needs and plans? So, who I am to intefere with my

> babble?

>

> These are questions and situations I feel the connecting of my work

> and your ayurvedic work can address. You have the knowledge of the

> ancient wisdom about the soul and life and health that we need to

> merge with the current science and prenatal psych. We can seek

> solutions together.

>

> Respectfully,

>

> Janel

>

>

> ayurveda , " sonyabastow " <sonya

>

> wrote:

> > I am looking for some advice to give to a nursing mom who wants to

>

> try

>

> > a mild pk. She is trying to get pregnant again her baby now is 15

> > months. She is having problems getting pregnant and I thought pk

>

> might

>

> > help. Pitta/Kapha body type. She is on Lexapro and another med

> > starts with an m for helping blood sugar stabilize. She said it is a

> > med used for diabetes although she is not diabetic. Is it safe for

> > her to do a home pk while on these meds and nursing?

> > Thanks,

> > Sonya